' Cardiff City Owners '

As for the topic....

I've seen a few owners during my time as a fan..
But possibly because of my age at the time, Sam years were something else.
It all ended sourly.. But the highs were outstanding and some of my best memories at the club...

Leeds.. Play off final.. Stoke away (game terms). That KAV goal at the racecourse...
Earnie at Loftus road....
Great times...

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I think Chuckles meant £28mill Langston,plus £9mill Stadium rights, which never happened.

Tim, as to the debt being reduced,at the moment its still rising and thats from Tan & Dalman both stating it.
Also, Debt to Equity, a promise made,but so far never kept.

Be honest Tim, as I respect your views, Are you not concerned or worried by Tans actions and debts?

Annis, I think the only times I haven't worried about our clubs debts in the last 30-odd years has been the first few years of Rick Wright and Sam's first couple of years. I honestly thought Tan would sort them and for me a 'short term' rebrand (as that's all it will ever be) was a price worth paying to sort our debt problem once and for all.

His not turning debt into equity is definitely a concern and shouldn't be forgotten in the efforts to change the colours back to blue sooner rather than later.

Tim thats why I always respect your views

THIS IS WHAT REALLY MATTERS/BUT TANS FOLLOWERS ARE IGNORING IT

Correct me if I'm wrong,but have you renewed your ST?
If yes then by default that makes you a Tan follower...


Yeah I'm just nit picking but it annoys me to see fans label one another with petty names..

Tan Follower... Pro Red....
Pro Blue.... Blah blah blah....

We're All Cardiff Fans at the end of the day..
We just support the club in different ways.
Some accept some stuff some do not, Some feel doing a bit of fighting on the stands is acceptable , some do not.
Some leave 10 mins before the end, some leave 10 mins after the game.

All support the club though...


Hate the Man, Not the Fan...

Yes I have renewed my season ticket for the 43rd Consecutive season,thats all he will ever get off me, but its now actually to be a thorn in Tans side and keep the BLUE going

As for the topic....

I've seen a few owners during my time as a fan..
But possibly because of my age at the time, Sam years were something else.
It all ended sourly.. But the highs were outstanding and some of my best memories at the club...

Leeds.. Play off final.. Stoke away (game terms). That KAV goal at the racecourse...
Earnie at Loftus road....
Great times...

That's the worst thing.

Each time there is a new owner there is a huge burst of excitement... and it all starts well. Sam gave us hope, the first one ever- and whatever else happened after I'll always have respect for him for doing that, OK it did go tits up, but someone needed to wake up the sleeping giant.

Ridsdale came with a load of promises, investment, hedge funds etc.. but all that turned out to be bollox..

now Tan, when he first came in he bought a load of shares and sorted out the immediate debts, over the next seaosn or so he worked on the rest, then he went and spolit it all with that ridiculous rebrand..

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Does he have to make it debt free all in one go then> Is debt to equity the only route to making it debt free?

As for the topic....

I've seen a few owners during my time as a fan..
But possibly because of my age at the time, Sam years were something else.
It all ended sourly.. But the highs were outstanding and some of my best memories at the club...

Leeds.. Play off final.. Stoke away (game terms). That KAV goal at the racecourse...
Earnie at Loftus road....
Great times...

That's the worst thing.

Each time there is a new owner there is a huge burst of excitement... and it all starts well. Sam gave us hope, the first one ever- and whatever else happened after I'll always have respect for him for doing that, OK it did go tits up, but someone needed to wake up the sleeping giant.

Ridsdale came with a load of promises, investment, hedge funds etc.. but all that turned out to be bollox..

now Tan, when he first came in he bought a load of shares and sorted out the immediate debts, over the next seaosn or so he worked on the rest, then he went and spolit it all with that ridiculous rebrand..

Spot on Tim..

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I think Chuckles meant £28mill Langston,plus £9mill Stadium rights, which never happened.

Tim, as to the debt being reduced,at the moment its still rising and thats from Tan & Dalman both stating it.
Also, Debt to Equity, a promise made,but so far never kept.

Be honest Tim, as I respect your views, Are you not concerned or worried by Tans actions and debts?

Annis, I think the only times I haven't worried about our clubs debts in the last 30-odd years has been the first few years of Rick Wright and Sam's first couple of years. I honestly thought Tan would sort them and for me a 'short term' rebrand (as that's all it will ever be) was a price worth paying to sort our debt problem once and for all.

His not turning debt into equity is definitely a concern and shouldn't be forgotten in the efforts to change the colours back to blue sooner rather than later.

Cheers Annis.

I just hope he sees sense sooner rather than later as he's really the only person now who has the money to clear us out of this mess.
Tim thats why I always respect your views

Cheers Annis.

I just hope he sees sense sooner rather than later as he's really the only person now who has the money to clear us out of this mess.

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I think Chuckles meant £28mill Langston,plus £9mill Stadium rights, which never happened.

Tim, as to the debt being reduced,at the moment its still rising and thats from Tan & Dalman both stating it.
Also, Debt to Equity, a promise made,but so far never kept.

Be honest Tim, as I respect your views, Are you not concerned or worried by Tans actions and debts?

The debt may have been rising as Dalman spoke, but I expect that to be reversed as we sell players and dramatically reduce the wage bill over the next few months. I'd 'expect' a net income of £20-30m on transfers and the parachute money to more than cover the wage bill. We'd also not have received our final Premiership TV money when Dalman spoke.

Tim, I expect the club to start getting less if they now finally start running the club properly,but my honest opinion, they dont know how to run it and so far my opinion has proved right.

Thats why I have been saying, I dont really care about big names etc and behind the scenes the club is paying out like a 10 star hotel,but run by 2 star staff.

11th January 2014

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-25696896

Dalman saying they are in the process of changing debt to equity and the club will eventually become debt free.

6 months down the line, debt to equity will only be for 50 million and the club will remain in 100million of debt, approximately.

I see we've ever so slightly changed our tune ont his article now since I blew your previous twisting of it out of the water!!!

Check this otu: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=142327&start=60#p1501796 Tan has never ever said it would be cleared in days!!!!

Stick witht he actual truth boys instead of twisting it to suit your twisted agenda: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=142327&start=60#p1501946

No it does not all have to be in one go...
But the problem is he has not converted a single penny let alone 150 milion pounds worth..

I find it hard to say anything remotely positive about the man in regards of defending his actions because he has lied and moved goal post to the people that make the club what it is.. The Supporters.

He could've been a messiah, adored by hundreds and thousands.
But he and him alone chose a different path..

That's why I get upset at people who have a go at fans for supporting the club regardless.
They never asked for any of this..

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I think Chuckles meant £28mill Langston,plus £9mill Stadium rights, which never happened.

Tim, as to the debt being reduced,at the moment its still rising and thats from Tan & Dalman both stating it.
Also, Debt to Equity, a promise made,but so far never kept.

Be honest Tim, as I respect your views, Are you not concerned or worried by Tans actions and debts?

Annis your not a dull man

Why on earth would anoyone with a brain convert £120m of debt into equity in a business currently worth not even a 5th of that it would be madness

Whilst he promised it he's not stupid club share value is low if he becomes full owner and converts his debt his share value won't be worth a penny and he will never recoup his money going down was a big blow to the debt to equity swap he had already bought out most other shareholders and increased his total shre holding to around 90% I think was a figure banded on here a while ago and I remember someone mentioning isaacs was playing tough on his shres wanting far more than they were worth, if tan had bought him out he couldn't owe himself money the way it is at present he's still majority shareholder he's under no hurry to convert cos if he sells his majority share in club he's still owed the loans he's in a win win situation
Had we stayed up the club worth would be far greater and he could switch to equity and there wouldn't be a problem switching to equity fully in the championship would be like wiping out £80m of his cash cos he'd never get it back

Going down was bad for this swap I'm confident had we stayed up he'd have converted this summer and possibly sold up

Cheers about not being a dull man

On a serious note, I agree with some of your post,but then surely Tan should not have made the statement 2 years running regarding making our club debt free and on the second occasion saying it will " Only be a matter of days" ?

I agree annis he makes himself look silly but IMO he keeps saying it to appease the reluctant reds as otherwise he looks like stringing us on

The post about FFP is an interesting read mind you, perhaps that is also affecting his decisions regarding debt to equity

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I think Chuckles meant £28mill Langston,plus £9mill Stadium rights, which never happened.

Tim, as to the debt being reduced,at the moment its still rising and thats from Tan & Dalman both stating it.
Also, Debt to Equity, a promise made,but so far never kept.

Be honest Tim, as I respect your views, Are you not concerned or worried by Tans actions and debts?

No, the rumours are that this year's accounts will show a small profit (£10m to £12m). pmsl. You and chuckles are getting torn a new areshole in this thread! Its embarrassing, just give up!

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I think Chuckles meant £28mill Langston,plus £9mill Stadium rights, which never happened.

Tim, as to the debt being reduced,at the moment its still rising and thats from Tan & Dalman both stating it.
Also, Debt to Equity, a promise made,but so far never kept.

Be honest Tim, as I respect your views, Are you not concerned or worried by Tans actions and debts?

Annis your not a dull man

Why on earth would anoyone with a brain convert £120m of debt into equity in a business currently worth not even a 5th of that it would be madness

Whilst he promised it he's not stupid club share value is low if he becomes full owner and converts his debt his share value won't be worth a penny and he will never recoup his money going down was a big blow to the debt to equity swap he had already bought out most other shareholders and increased his total shre holding to around 90% I think was a figure banded on here a while ago and I remember someone mentioning isaacs was playing tough on his shres wanting far more than they were worth, if tan had bought him out he couldn't owe himself money the way it is at present he's still majority shareholder he's under no hurry to convert cos if he sells his majority share in club he's still owed the loans he's in a win win situation
Had we stayed up the club worth would be far greater and he could switch to equity and there wouldn't be a problem switching to equity fully in the championship would be like wiping out £80m of his cash cos he'd never get it back

Going down was bad for this swap I'm confident had we stayed up he'd have converted this summer and possibly sold up

Cheers about not being a dull man

On a serious note, I agree with some of your post,but then surely Tan should not have made the statement 2 years running regarding making our club debt free and on the second occasion saying it will " Only be a matter of days" ?

I agree annis he makes himself look silly but IMO he keeps saying it to appease the reluctant reds as otherwise he looks like stringing us on

The post about FFP is an interesting read mind you, perhaps that is also affecting his decisions regarding debt to equity

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I agree and lets face it one thing VT has done is settle with SH at a cost reported at £22m which was a massive result for SH / Langston and now forms part of the monies owed to VT. At least give the guy some credit for that.

I'm not surprised at all that the debt has rocketed despite our promotion to the PL because no one can seriously doubt that the £35m spent by MM last summer was funded by anyone other than VT, and likewise no one should doubt that VT has been funding the increased wagebill because the club didn't receive it's £62m PL revenue last summer and in reality it's probably only just received the final payment.

But Gary, the point is Tan is letting the debt get out of control and no point blaming Malky/Ole/Dalman etc etc, Tan is the one really in control, True?

No he's not pmsl.

Oh my word, its like your argument gets pulled apart so you make one claim in the realms of lunacy after another. This thread from about page 3 onward is hilarious!

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Does he have to make it debt free all in one go then> Is debt to equity the only route to making it debt free?

Nat, he could change some debt to equity anytime he wants to

As for the topic....

I've seen a few owners during my time as a fan..
But possibly because of my age at the time, Sam years were something else.
It all ended sourly.. But the highs were outstanding and some of my best memories at the club...

Leeds.. Play off final.. Stoke away (game terms). That KAV goal at the racecourse...
Earnie at Loftus road....
Great times...

For all the SAM finance trouble, they were exciting times in football as he was a passionate owner. Some great days out and at home with SAM doing the ayatollah around the ground. One of the better periods for me.

Best years for me jumping up and down !!! in order - 1969- 1971, 1975-1977, 1991-1993, 2007-2009 - can't jump anymore

Blooobirds Forever !!!

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I think Chuckles meant £28mill Langston,plus £9mill Stadium rights, which never happened.

Tim, as to the debt being reduced,at the moment its still rising and thats from Tan & Dalman both stating it.
Also, Debt to Equity, a promise made,but so far never kept.

Be honest Tim, as I respect your views, Are you not concerned or worried by Tans actions and debts?

Annis your not a dull man

Why on earth would anoyone with a brain convert £120m of debt into equity in a business currently worth not even a 5th of that it would be madness

Whilst he promised it he's not stupid club share value is low if he becomes full owner and converts his debt his share value won't be worth a penny and he will never recoup his money going down was a big blow to the debt to equity swap he had already bought out most other shareholders and increased his total shre holding to around 90% I think was a figure banded on here a while ago and I remember someone mentioning isaacs was playing tough on his shres wanting far more than they were worth, if tan had bought him out he couldn't owe himself money the way it is at present he's still majority shareholder he's under no hurry to convert cos if he sells his majority share in club he's still owed the loans he's in a win win situation
Had we stayed up the club worth would be far greater and he could switch to equity and there wouldn't be a problem switching to equity fully in the championship would be like wiping out £80m of his cash cos he'd never get it back

Going down was bad for this swap I'm confident had we stayed up he'd have converted this summer and possibly sold up

Cheers about not being a dull man

On a serious note, I agree with some of your post,but then surely Tan should not have made the statement 2 years running regarding making our club debt free and on the second occasion saying it will " Only be a matter of days" ?

Tan doesn't state a time frame... evidence?

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I agree and lets face it one thing VT has done is settle with SH at a cost reported at £22m which was a massive result for SH / Langston and now forms part of the monies owed to VT. At least give the guy some credit for that.

I'm not surprised at all that the debt has rocketed despite our promotion to the PL because no one can seriously doubt that the £35m spent by MM last summer was funded by anyone other than VT, and likewise no one should doubt that VT has been funding the increased wagebill because the club didn't receive it's £62m PL revenue last summer and in reality it's probably only just received the final payment.

But Gary, the point is Tan is letting the debt get out of control and no point blaming Malky/Ole/Dalman etc etc, Tan is the one really in control, True?

No he's not pmsl.

Oh my word, its like your argument gets pulled apart so you make one claim in the realms of lunacy after another. This thread from about page 3 onward is hilarious!

Nat, your own only on here to stalk me end off,you cant have a good debate, so this I promise will be my last reply to you

No it does not all have to be in one go...
But the problem is he has not converted a single penny let alone 150 milion pounds worth..

I find it hard to say anything remotely positive about the man in regards of defending his actions because he has lied and moved goal post to the people that make the club what it is.. The Supporters.

He could've been a messiah, adored by hundreds and thousands.
But he and him alone chose a different path..

That's why I get upset at people who have a go at fans for supporting the club regardless.
They never asked for any of this..

With all due respect, he hasn't lied. He just hasn't fulfilled all his promises yet, that doesn't make him a liar by any stretch of the imagination. Its a phrase that is being bandied about and it shouldn't be

With all due respect, he hasn't lied. He just hasn't fulfilled all his promises yet, that doesn't make him a liar by any stretch of the imagination. Its a phrase that is being bandied about and it shouldn't be

Nat,he has lied...
Just as Peter did before him....

He would turn us red the convert..
He would pay Sam then convert...
He would resolve Malky then convert...

We are Red...
Sam is paid..
Malky is resolved ..

Yet.......

If they're not lies mate then what are they?


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=138338&hilit=+Tan+a+liar

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I think Chuckles meant £28mill Langston,plus £9mill Stadium rights, which never happened.

Tim, as to the debt being reduced,at the moment its still rising and thats from Tan & Dalman both stating it.
Also, Debt to Equity, a promise made,but so far never kept.

Be honest Tim, as I respect your views, Are you not concerned or worried by Tans actions and debts?

No, the rumours are that this year's accounts will show a small profit (£10m to £12m). pmsl. You and chuckles are getting torn a new areshole in this thread! Its embarrassing, just give up!

Unfortunately even if the club posts a profit the debt will rise, as the cost of the new stand, new players etc.. will be capital costs, thus only a fraction of it will be included in the P and L.

With all due respect, he hasn't lied. He just hasn't fulfilled all his promises yet, that doesn't make him a liar by any stretch of the imagination. Its a phrase that is being bandied about and it shouldn't be

Nat,he has lied...
Just as Peter did before him....

He would turn us red the convert..
He would pay Sam then convert...
He would resolve Malky then convert...

We are Red...
Sam is paid..
Malky is resolved ..

Yet.......

If they're not lies mate then what are they?


http://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewt ... Tan+a+liar

The way I look at it is; if he leaves and has not resolved this issue then there could be the possibility that he lied but until then though I don't think its fair to judge. For example, when he said the statement he could have had every intention of doing it but things might not have made it possible. Alternatively, and let's be honest, you would all be saying this about him now and then a few weeks down the line then he could convert and wipe all the debt away.

For me Tan just hasn't fulfilled his promise yet. That doesn't mean he's lying! If you go to the BBC article that's been referenced by Annis and Chuckles in a thread I posted a link to above then Tan never puts a time frame on making us debt free. The only time frame is on the Langston deal and that it COULD pave the way to us being debt free.

Now i've been accused of things to try and warp my personality to sort of suggest I'm not a clear thinker. But to be honest I just try to take a balanced perspective and look at things from every angle and possibility and reserve jumping to conclusions on this matter until I have all the facts. When the truth is none of us have but far too many are jumping to conclusions and colluding to lead the fans to perceive things in a certain way (and the origins of this thread is testament to this happening). Chuckles has been a fairly voiciferous supporter of Annis and has hounded me the past few weeks, the pay off is this article which has been published and as many have recognised is very poor quality

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I think Chuckles meant £28mill Langston,plus £9mill Stadium rights, which never happened.

Tim, as to the debt being reduced,at the moment its still rising and thats from Tan & Dalman both stating it.
Also, Debt to Equity, a promise made,but so far never kept.

Be honest Tim, as I respect your views, Are you not concerned or worried by Tans actions and debts?

No, the rumours are that this year's accounts will show a small profit (£10m to £12m). pmsl. You and chuckles are getting torn a new areshole in this thread! Its embarrassing, just give up!

Unfortunately even if the club posts a profit the debt will rise, as the cost of the new stand, new players etc.. will be capital costs, thus only a fraction of it will be included in the P and L.

Correct once again Tim.

With all due respect, he hasn't lied. He just hasn't fulfilled all his promises yet, that doesn't make him a liar by any stretch of the imagination. Its a phrase that is being bandied about and it shouldn't be

Nat,he has lied...
Just as Peter did before him....

He would turn us red the convert..
He would pay Sam then convert...
He would resolve Malky then convert...

We are Red...
Sam is paid..
Malky is resolved ..

Yet.......

If they're not lies mate then what are they?


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=138338&hilit=+Tan+a+liar

Converting to equity was part of the package.
I would say he's completed 60% of the package the problem being relegated has made it almost impossible to convert. The value of the club has halved. The conversion would mean paying twice the value of the shares at least.
He has not lied. Or is he an idiot. As some would have you believe.

With all due respect, he hasn't lied. He just hasn't fulfilled all his promises yet, that doesn't make him a liar by any stretch of the imagination. Its a phrase that is being bandied about and it shouldn't be

Nat,he has lied...
Just as Peter did before him....

He would turn us red the convert..
He would pay Sam then convert...
He would resolve Malky then convert...

We are Red...
Sam is paid..
Malky is resolved ..

Yet.......

If they're not lies mate then what are they?


http://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewt ... Tan+a+liar

Converting to equity was part of the package.
I would say he's completed 60% of the package the problem being relegated has made it almost impossible to convert. The value of the club has halved. The conversion would mean paying twice the value of the shares at least.
He has not lied. Or is he an idiot. As some would have you believe.

With all due respect, he hasn't lied. He just hasn't fulfilled all his promises yet, that doesn't make him a liar by any stretch of the imagination. Its a phrase that is being bandied about and it shouldn't be

Nat,he has lied...
Just as Peter did before him....

He would turn us red the convert..
He would pay Sam then convert...
He would resolve Malky then convert...

We are Red...
Sam is paid..
Malky is resolved ..

Yet.......

If they're not lies mate then what are they?


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=138338&hilit=+Tan+a+liar

The way I look at it is; if he leaves and has not resolved this issue then there could be the possibility that he lied but until then though I don't think its fair to judge. For example, when he said the statement he could have had every intention of doing it but things might not have made it possible. Alternatively, and let's be honest, you would all be saying this about him now and then a few weeks down the line then he could convert and wipe all the debt away.

For me Tan just hasn't fulfilled his promise yet. That doesn't mean he's lying! If you go to the BBC article that's been referenced by Annis and Chuckles in a thread I posted a link to above then Tan never puts a time frame on making us debt free. The only time frame is on the Langston deal and that it COULD pave the way to us being debt free.

Now i've been accused of things to try and warp my personality to sort of suggest I'm not a clear thinker. But to be honest I just try to take a balanced perspective and look at things from every angle and possibility and reserve jumping to conclusions on this matter until I have all the facts. When the truth is none of us have but far too many are jumping to conclusions and colluding to lead the fans to perceive things in a certain way (and the origins of this thread is testament to this happening). Chuckles has been a fairly voiciferous supporter of Annis and has hounded me the past few weeks, the pay off is this article which has been published and as many have recognised is very poor quality

Natman but the point is you are not being balanced, you are taking a stance which I respect but I don't agree with it.

You have chosen to stand by Tan no matter how long he is stringing you along with false hope.

The majority of City fans who accepted the changes by the rebrand did so BECAUSE of the promise of debt to equity, you can dress it up as much as you like but the truth is that it was stated Tan would convert the debt once he had settled Langston.

He has failed to do so.

And in his latest interview he said he may convert £50m of the debt to him which in his words is £120m+.

If you are stating you are being balanced then at least show a little of the negatives created by the man.

Otherwise you will struggle to be respected by many.

Then how come Tan blamed it on Sam for the delay? then that got solved. But still No debt to equity.
A year later Tan blamed it on Malky', thats now solved and were still waiting, True?

Your clutching at straws to stick up for Tan, who has already stripped us of our pride and identity as a club, ask Steve Davies what he thinks.


In May 2012 we were told this would be all done within months by Tans, CEO Whitley in a meeting on Tans behalf.

With all due respect, he hasn't lied. He just hasn't fulfilled all his promises yet, that doesn't make him a liar by any stretch of the imagination. Its a phrase that is being bandied about and it shouldn't be

Nat,he has lied...
Just as Peter did before him....

He would turn us red the convert..
He would pay Sam then convert...
He would resolve Malky then convert...

We are Red...
Sam is paid..
Malky is resolved ..

Yet.......

If they're not lies mate then what are they?


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=138338&hilit=+Tan+a+liar

The way I look at it is; if he leaves and has not resolved this issue then there could be the possibility that he lied but until then though I don't think its fair to judge. For example, when he said the statement he could have had every intention of doing it but things might not have made it possible. Alternatively, and let's be honest, you would all be saying this about him now and then a few weeks down the line then he could convert and wipe all the debt away.

For me Tan just hasn't fulfilled his promise yet. That doesn't mean he's lying! If you go to the BBC article that's been referenced by Annis and Chuckles in a thread I posted a link to above then Tan never puts a time frame on making us debt free. The only time frame is on the Langston deal and that it COULD pave the way to us being debt free.

Now i've been accused of things to try and warp my personality to sort of suggest I'm not a clear thinker. But to be honest I just try to take a balanced perspective and look at things from every angle and possibility and reserve jumping to conclusions on this matter until I have all the facts. When the truth is none of us have but far too many are jumping to conclusions and colluding to lead the fans to perceive things in a certain way (and the origins of this thread is testament to this happening). Chuckles has been a fairly voiciferous supporter of Annis and has hounded me the past few weeks, the pay off is this article which has been published and as many have recognised is very poor quality

Natman but the point is you are not being balanced, you are taking a stance which I respect but I don't agree with it.

You have chosen to stand by Tan no matter how long he is stringing you along with false hope.

The majority of City fans who accepted the changes by the rebrand did so BECAUSE of the promise of debt to equity, you can dress it up as much as you like but the truth is that it was stated Tan would convert the debt once he had settled Langston.

He has failed to do so.

And in his latest interview he said he may convert £50m of the debt to him which in his words is £120m+.

If you are stating you are being balanced then at least show a little of the negatives created by the man.

Otherwise you will struggle to be respected by many.

but if he converts say 50 million couldn't the club cover the rest with players sales and the increased revenue ? To date ole is not spending wild amounts of money just a thought

With all due respect, he hasn't lied. He just hasn't fulfilled all his promises yet, that doesn't make him a liar by any stretch of the imagination. Its a phrase that is being bandied about and it shouldn't be

Nat,he has lied...
Just as Peter did before him....

He would turn us red the convert..
He would pay Sam then convert...
He would resolve Malky then convert...

We are Red...
Sam is paid..
Malky is resolved ..

Yet.......

If they're not lies mate then what are they?


http://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewt ... Tan+a+liar

The way I look at it is; if he leaves and has not resolved this issue then there could be the possibility that he lied but until then though I don't think its fair to judge. For example, when he said the statement he could have had every intention of doing it but things might not have made it possible. Alternatively, and let's be honest, you would all be saying this about him now and then a few weeks down the line then he could convert and wipe all the debt away.

For me Tan just hasn't fulfilled his promise yet. That doesn't mean he's lying! If you go to the BBC article that's been referenced by Annis and Chuckles in a thread I posted a link to above then Tan never puts a time frame on making us debt free. The only time frame is on the Langston deal and that it COULD pave the way to us being debt free.

Now i've been accused of things to try and warp my personality to sort of suggest I'm not a clear thinker. But to be honest I just try to take a balanced perspective and look at things from every angle and possibility and reserve jumping to conclusions on this matter until I have all the facts. When the truth is none of us have but far too many are jumping to conclusions and colluding to lead the fans to perceive things in a certain way (and the origins of this thread is testament to this happening). Chuckles has been a fairly voiciferous supporter of Annis and has hounded me the past few weeks, the pay off is this article which has been published and as many have recognised is very poor quality

Natman but the point is you are not being balanced, you are taking a stance which I respect but I don't agree with it.

You have chosen to stand by Tan no matter how long he is stringing you along with false hope.

The majority of City fans who accepted the changes by the rebrand did so BECAUSE of the promise of debt to equity, you can dress it up as much as you like but the truth is that it was stated Tan would convert the debt once he had settled Langston.

He has failed to do so.

And in his latest interview he said he may convert £50m of the debt to him which in his words is £120m+.

If you are stating you are being balanced then at least show a little of the negatives created by the man.

Otherwise you will struggle to be respected by many.

Firstly, didn't the Malky situation begin to materialise whilst the Sam issue was being resolved???

Secondly, as some have alluded, with the fan base as it is would you want to convert at the present time??? As many (including myself) have argued, dialogue is what is required not confrontation!

Thirdly, £50m is better than nothing. What if this is the start? It's got to start somewhere!

Also, I haven't chosen to stand by Tan no matter what. As I've said in a few posts regarding what my views on his apparent 'lying'. What I'm trying to do is strike a balance to his constant bashing that he receives on here. You might argue that i overtly defend him, many people on here argue that this board overtly and unjustly vilify him.

Let's get this back to its original question, who is responsible for our position today ?

League status, debt amount, etc.

Vincent Tan is responsible for the level of debt that this club has today.

When Tan entered the club with a pledge of £6m, which I am grateful for as it saved us from the taxman, but don't kid yourself that he did it for no other reason than a calculated low risk gamble.

The gamble didn't pay off and Tan could have walked away after the defeat to Blackpool but he fancied another spin of roulette but this time it was not a one off match but a season long gamble.

Remember, the short term outlook of loaning players to try and achieve promotion, not paying transfers but going for borrowing players to try and reach the rainbow of cash that is the Premier League.

Tan had the books looked over not once but twice and had his eyes wide open when he invested, he knew what the club owed out and he wanted to take the club on, lock stock and barrel.

Before Tan came along, we were battling near the top of the Championship, with a level of debt that many said we could not sustain.

Today out debt has spiralled and we are back to square one but have suffered the humiliation as supporters of going through a whimsical rebrand of one man.

We are a football club and too many people are happy to tell others just enjoy the football and leave the politics to the ones in the club, well my question would be, we are back where we were when Tan came in, are you enjoying you football ?