' I BELIEVE TROLLOPE IS SAFE BUT ONLY BECAUSE '

' I BELIEVE TROLLOPE IS SAFE BUT ONLY BECAUSE '

I honestly believe that if City had lost today then Paul Trollope may have been sacked, fortunately and thankfully we won the game and Trollope will fight to face another day.

When I say fortunately I am obviously referring to Trollope himself being fortunate to save his job but when I say thankfully I mean so from the fact that I don't see how Cardiff City can sack Trollope and bring in a more experienced manager with a proven track record without putting the club in serious danger of falling foul of Financial Fair Play rules.

We learnt recently that the club are still losing £1m per month and permitted losses for the season can only be to a maximum of £13m for the season.

How would the club steer clear of those FFP rules and pay up Trollope and employ a new manager and stay within the limit which we are so close to exceeding already.

It is a difficult situation that the club finds itself in and that is the reason that I believe we employed Trollope for in the first place.

If we stick with Trollope and we don't improve dramatically then I honestly believe we will be relegated but as a club we cannot afford to seek an alternative.

On the pitch today Ben Amos, Jazz Richards, Rickie Lambert did themselves no harm whatsoever and the result is obviously very welcome but we cannot go and lose on Tuesday at home to Derby, we must put a couple of wins together to build some momentum.

I believe that we have a squad of players who are talented enough to be a lot higher than we currently are in the league but I do suspect that many of those players have the hunger and stomach for a fight.

Trollope has got a difficult task ahead but I fear the club itself has the biggest issue with how they deal with this situation if results take a backward step over the next few games.

How will some of the other clubs who have spent millions this season fare if they dont get promoted this season?

Sounds like the club is between a rock and a hard place to stay in the rules! Makes you wonder what Trollope has got to do to get the sack. I hope he is careful about what he writes on twitter and doesen't send texts without thinking them through first or we could well end up with a painter and decorator or a plumber managing the squad with the salary we will have to offer!

Perhaps as a cheap option the members of this forum could club together and decide tactics if Trollope gets the chop. We could use polls to dictate formations and we could pm and bounce ideas off eachother prior to the games as regards tactics. Annis could sit in the dug out and chew gum and shout menacingly at the players.

Everyone on here thinks they know better than Trollope anyway so perhaps we should give it a shot!

How will some of the other clubs who have spent millions this season fare if they dont get promoted this season?

I think Derby fans must be getting a bit concerned at the moment! No side has promotion nailed down as things stand but at least most of the likely candidates are still well in the mix.

Derby could end up getting cut adrift if they dont pull their fingers out and no amount of overpayed primadonas are going to save them. I think we are in a better situation than them at present!

Let's wake up....

We all know the score, those that can't see it are either ignorant or just stirring for kicks.
Our club screwed up, Tan screwed up, Previous managers screwed up and we as fans screwed up.
It is in all our best interests that we get through this, Tan, Dalaman, Choo, Trollope, the players,us the 15,000 or so supporters still going nearly every week and Cardiff as a City.


We're Shit and we know we are.....

Let's be honest, Results have been diabolical, even laughable!!!! but i have not seen one Cardiff player not trying, Do people thing Trollope can't be bothered? That no one is putting a shift in? I've seen them! They do try on the field. There is not one player walking around, not going for a tackle, or not chasing balls. The effort is there from the team and management, So why Boo?
Why are we blaming the players because they are off form or lacking in confidence? isn't it our role as supporters to get behind the team no matter what? i cant see the logic in deflating an already struggling team. OUR team!!!


We're in this together....

We have no money, we have no prima donnas, we have a bare bones squad. But, we have Welsh Players, A Welsh Manager, a Great stadium and we play in a Blue Adidas Kit!!! The players and Management are out there trying different things every week, we can not change the owner, Manager or bring in any more players until January. So hows about we all dig in and do our bit to climb the table, its a hell of a long season and it would be a disaster to finish in the bottom 3.

Our club is trying to fix past mistakes that were made by the current regime. How many of our Previous Owners/Chairmen have stuck around to do that?
It's gonna take at least 3 solid seasons to get any solid sorting of the crap. I have no intention of going anywhere, nor will i play a part in making things worse By booing my own team, I can not see any way that helps!

Lady Luck was shining down on us today helped by the near 400 Bluebirds that supported their team non stop, we as a team need to take this momentum into Tuesday, Derby are in a far worse state than us, (you wait for that embargo in January!)


For better, For worse, I am a Bluebird,

See You on Tuesday......

How will some of the other clubs who have spent millions this season fare if they dont get promoted this season?

There are a few Championship clubs who overspent last season ( year to 31 May 2016) and will be in breach of the FFP rules when they submit their accounts to the League before the 1 December deadline ( if they submit them late that is also a breach). However their transfer embargo punishment will only impact on the January 2017 transfer window so, if they have also overspent this Summer it will be a punishment " after the horse has bolted".

I thought the ffp had changed to be a £39 mil loss after 3 years rather than £13 million each season? So in effect you could lose £39 million this year but then nothing for the next 2 seasons??

So what you're saying is that for the foreseeable future, especially with the parachute payments ending, we are only looking at bargain basement managers.

Only one way that's going to end unfortunately.

I'd rather the club continued cutting back on the playing staff and employed a proper manager to get the best out of a smaller squad.

Difficult situation that the club seems he'll Brent on staying within the rules which is a good thing we can't have it all as fans and maybe sometimes we moan but we don't see the bigger picture .
Fingers crossed for city the premier league relegation hurts a lot of clubs as its done over the years hopefully we come through it am be close if we do .
Good win today means we all happy this weekend .a win Tuesday would be great

Can I ask a question about these Financial Fair Play Rules - as sorry dont know how they can be manipulated to our advantage.

From the sound of it we can make a £13m loss to stay within the rules. However, if we chose at the start of the season, to buy top quality Championship Players (Gestede, McCormack, Ayew) and keep Marshall etc and basically go for promotion - would the FFP rules really hurt us - if we got promoted???

The reason I ask is as follows:

1) Getting to the Premiership is worth in excess of £100m anyway
2) If we get to the Premiership no FFP penalty applies unless we get relegated back to the Championship (as per QPR)

Just some thoughts.....

Like I said I dont really know the full ins and outs so seeking advice not criticism lol

Quote from ffp and sky bet champ!

The £13m limit for the 2015/16 season is in line with the losses permitted under the new regulations which will permit a maximum loss of £39m over a rolling 3 season timeframe (

http://mobile.efl.com//news/article/201 ... 67176.aspx


This is a link! May help a few ...

Can I ask a question about these Financial Fair Play Rules - as sorry dont know how they can be manipulated to our advantage.

From the sound of it we can make a £13m loss to stay within the rules. However, if we chose at the start of the season, to buy top quality Championship Players (Gestede, McCormack, Ayew) and keep Marshall etc and basically go for promotion - would the FFP rules really hurt us - if we got promoted???

The reason I ask is as follows:

1) Getting to the Premiership is worth in excess of £100m anyway
2) If we get to the Premiership no FFP penalty applies unless we get relegated back to the Championship (as per QPR)

Just some thoughts.....

Like I said I dont really know the full ins and outs so seeking advice not criticism lol

You are pretty much bang on. Boro, Derby and a few others went for it big last year. It worked for Boro, But not for Derby. And the trouble is, top players don't guarantee promotion, especially with a team like Newcastle in the league.

It's worth a punt, but only when it's right to do so, and you have a good chance.

Let's wake up....

We all know the score, those that can't see it are either ignorant or just stirring for kicks.
Our club screwed up, Tan screwed up, Previous managers screwed up and we as fans screwed up.
It is in all our best interests that we get through this, Tan, Dalaman, Choo, Trollope, the players,us the 15,000 or so supporters still going nearly every week and Cardiff as a City.


We're Shit and we know we are.....

Let's be honest, Results have been diabolical, even laughable!!!! but i have not seen one Cardiff player not trying, Do people thing Trollope can't be bothered? That no one is putting a shift in? I've seen them! They do try on the field. There is not one player walking around, not going for a tackle, or not chasing balls. The effort is there from the team and management, So why Boo?
Why are we blaming the players because they are off form or lacking in confidence? isn't it our role as supporters to get behind the team no matter what? i cant see the logic in deflating an already struggling team. OUR team!!!


We're in this together....

We have no money, we have no prima donnas, we have a bare bones squad. But, we have Welsh Players, A Welsh Manager, a Great stadium and we play in a Blue Adidas Kit!!! The players and Management are out there trying different things every week, we can not change the owner, Manager or bring in any more players until January. So hows about we all dig in and do our bit to climb the table, its a hell of a long season and it would be a disaster to finish in the bottom 3.

Our club is trying to fix past mistakes that were made by the current regime. How many of our Previous Owners/Chairmen have stuck around to do that?
It's gonna take at least 3 solid seasons to get any solid sorting of the crap. I have no intention of going anywhere, nor will i play a part in making things worse By booing my own team, I can not see any way that helps!

Lady Luck was shining down on us today helped by the near 400 Bluebirds that supported their team non stop, we as a team need to take this momentum into Tuesday, Derby are in a far worse state than us, (you wait for that embargo in January!)


For better, For worse, I am a Bluebird,

See You on Tuesday......

Loving this post, I will be loud and proud with blue glowing through my veins Tuesday and at Burton Saturday.

So Fans need to turn up and support

Perhaps we can all turn up and support rather than stay home and moan.

(Re: Mr Sheds email)

Looks like we are at last all in this together as no one wants us to fail

The board, the coach, the players, the supporters,(even the FFP rules)

#Cityasone

Let's wake up....

We all know the score, those that can't see it are either ignorant or just stirring for kicks.
Our club screwed up, Tan screwed up, Previous managers screwed up and we as fans screwed up.
It is in all our best interests that we get through this, Tan, Dalaman, Choo, Trollope, the players,us the 15,000 or so supporters still going nearly every week and Cardiff as a City.


We're Shit and we know we are.....

Let's be honest, Results have been diabolical, even laughable!!!! but i have not seen one Cardiff player not trying, Do people thing Trollope can't be bothered? That no one is putting a shift in? I've seen them! They do try on the field. There is not one player walking around, not going for a tackle, or not chasing balls. The effort is there from the team and management, So why Boo?
Why are we blaming the players because they are off form or lacking in confidence? isn't it our role as supporters to get behind the team no matter what? i cant see the logic in deflating an already struggling team. OUR team!!!


We're in this together....

We have no money, we have no prima donnas, we have a bare bones squad. But, we have Welsh Players, A Welsh Manager, a Great stadium and we play in a Blue Adidas Kit!!! The players and Management are out there trying different things every week, we can not change the owner, Manager or bring in any more players until January. So hows about we all dig in and do our bit to climb the table, its a hell of a long season and it would be a disaster to finish in the bottom 3.

Our club is trying to fix past mistakes that were made by the current regime. How many of our Previous Owners/Chairmen have stuck around to do that?
It's gonna take at least 3 solid seasons to get any solid sorting of the crap. I have no intention of going anywhere, nor will i play a part in making things worse By booing my own team, I can not see any way that helps!

Lady Luck was shining down on us today helped by the near 400 Bluebirds that supported their team non stop, we as a team need to take this momentum into Tuesday, Derby are in a far worse state than us, (you wait for that embargo in January!)


For better, For worse, I am a Bluebird,

See You on Tuesday......

Good post but hate to say it.... Trollope is NOT Welsh!

I thought the ffp had changed to be a £39 mil loss after 3 years rather than £13 million each season? So in effect you could lose £39 million this year but then nothing for the next 2 seasons??

That was my understanding so I can't see why we could'nt afford to sack PT if things don't improve. Firstly I don't believe this claim that the club is losing over £1m each month, if we are we really are up shite creek without a paddle, because this will mean VT will be unlikely to convert the £8m debt to equity he promised over the next 5 seasons and stay within the FFP rules. My understanding of FFP, and I don't claim to be an expert, is that clubs in the Championship will be assessed over 3 years rather than one so whatever it costs to sack PT it won't see the club break the £39m over 3 years.

The real issue here is does PT deserve the sack and would any other manager who the club bring in do any better. VT record of finding the right manager has hardly been inspiring and whilst VT, MD & KC are running this transfer committee there will always be huge question marks over the suitability of any manager or player this trio decide to sign.

We are where we are until January at least so let's hope we get a reasonable points total in the bag by then and maybe, just maybe, the 3 amigo's will allow PT, or whoever is manager then, to sign a few quality players in January even if they are loans.

I thought the ffp had changed to be a £39 mil loss after 3 years rather than £13 million each season? So in effect you could lose £39 million this year but then nothing for the next 2 seasons??

That was my understanding so I can't see why we could'nt afford to sack PT if things don't improve. Firstly I don't believe this claim that the club is losing over £1m each month, if we are we really are up shite creek without a paddle, because this will mean VT will be unlikely to convert the £8m debt to equity he promised over the next 5 seasons and stay within the FFP rules. My understanding of FFP, and I don't claim to be an expert, is that clubs in the Championship will be assessed over 3 years rather than one so whatever it costs to sack PT it won't see the club break the £39m over 3 years.

The real issue here is does PT deserve the sack and would any other manager who the club bring in do any better. VT record of finding the right manager has hardly been inspiring and whilst VT, MD & KC are running this transfer committee there will always be huge question marks over the suitability of any manager or player this trio decide to sign.

We are where we are until January at least so let's hope we get a reasonable points total in the bag by then and maybe, just maybe, the 3 amigo's will allow PT, or whoever is manager then, to sign a few quality players in January even if they are loans.

It is a £39m loss over a rolling 3 year period so for 2016/17 will include the losses made in 2014/15 and 2015/16. So, for example, if a club made a loss of £15m in each of the previous two seasons it can only make a loss of £9m in the current one without a breach of FFP. A club can't just gamble everything on promotion and make a loss of £39m in one season unless it at least broke even profit wise over the previous two seasons.

I thought the ffp had changed to be a £39 mil loss after 3 years rather than £13 million each season? So in effect you could lose £39 million this year but then nothing for the next 2 seasons??

That was my understanding so I can't see why we could'nt afford to sack PT if things don't improve. Firstly I don't believe this claim that the club is losing over £1m each month, if we are we really are up shite creek without a paddle, because this will mean VT will be unlikely to convert the £8m debt to equity he promised over the next 5 seasons and stay within the FFP rules. My understanding of FFP, and I don't claim to be an expert, is that clubs in the Championship will be assessed over 3 years rather than one so whatever it costs to sack PT it won't see the club break the £39m over 3 years.

The real issue here is does PT deserve the sack and would any other manager who the club bring in do any better. VT record of finding the right manager has hardly been inspiring and whilst VT, MD & KC are running this transfer committee there will always be huge question marks over the suitability of any manager or player this trio decide to sign.

We are where we are until January at least so let's hope we get a reasonable points total in the bag by then and maybe, just maybe, the 3 amigo's will allow PT, or whoever is manager then, to sign a few quality players in January even if they are loans.

It is a £39m loss over a rolling 3 year period so for 2016/17 will include the losses made in 2014/15 and 2015/16. So, for example, if a club made a loss of £15m in each of the previous two seasons it can only make a loss of £9m in the current one without a breach of FFP. A club can't just gamble everything on promotion and make a loss of £39m in one season unless it at least broke even profit wise over the previous two seasons.

Thanks for clarifying that I wasn't sure if this 3 year period would include the past or would be 3 years from now. Having said that I thought the club posted a loss of £12m for season 14/15 or was that for season ending in May 14 but published in 2015. This is where I get a little confused You always seem to have the facts on things like this so where would you see the clubs position regarding "Allowable" losses for this season based on the loss built up during season 2014/15 and 2015/16.

Ken Choo said that the sale of Joe Mason in January was required to ensure the club complied with FFP rules for last season. I'm probably asking for your best guess given that we only know for certain what loss the club made during one of the three seasons you mentioned.

I thought the ffp had changed to be a £39 mil loss after 3 years rather than £13 million each season? So in effect you could lose £39 million this year but then nothing for the next 2 seasons??

That was my understanding so I can't see why we could'nt afford to sack PT if things don't improve. Firstly I don't believe this claim that the club is losing over £1m each month, if we are we really are up shite creek without a paddle, because this will mean VT will be unlikely to convert the £8m debt to equity he promised over the next 5 seasons and stay within the FFP rules. My understanding of FFP, and I don't claim to be an expert, is that clubs in the Championship will be assessed over 3 years rather than one so whatever it costs to sack PT it won't see the club break the £39m over 3 years.

The real issue here is does PT deserve the sack and would any other manager who the club bring in do any better. VT record of finding the right manager has hardly been inspiring and whilst VT, MD & KC are running this transfer committee there will always be huge question marks over the suitability of any manager or player this trio decide to sign.

We are where we are until January at least so let's hope we get a reasonable points total in the bag by then and maybe, just maybe, the 3 amigo's will allow PT, or whoever is manager then, to sign a few quality players in January even if they are loans.

It is a £39m loss over a rolling 3 year period so for 2016/17 will include the losses made in 2014/15 and 2015/16. So, for example, if a club made a loss of £15m in each of the previous two seasons it can only make a loss of £9m in the current one without a breach of FFP. A club can't just gamble everything on promotion and make a loss of £39m in one season unless it at least broke even profit wise over the previous two seasons.

So do we know how much the club's losses were in 2014/15 and 2015/16?

If so, then we can calculate what the loss can be this season by simple subtraction.

I thought the ffp had changed to be a £39 mil loss after 3 years rather than £13 million each season? So in effect you could lose £39 million this year but then nothing for the next 2 seasons??

Not sure if it works exactly that way BB. As you have pointed out it is a 3 year 'rolling' time scale so the previous 2 years will always be included in the results for the present year.

The past 2 years we have made a loss of £12.8m and an amazing profit of £3.8m last season. So in theory we have lost £9m over the past 2 years leaving scope of £30m this year? Throw in VT is writing off £8m per season as debt to equity then it might be £38m!

Of course any loss this season would have a knock on affect to next season and the one after but in either case I don't believe sacking PT would be enough on its own to tip us over, not unless his contract is worth more than £30m

Let's wake up....

We all know the score, those that can't see it are either ignorant or just stirring for kicks.
Our club screwed up, Tan screwed up, Previous managers screwed up and we as fans screwed up.
It is in all our best interests that we get through this, Tan, Dalaman, Choo, Trollope, the players,us the 15,000 or so supporters still going nearly every week and Cardiff as a City.


We're Shit and we know we are.....

Let's be honest, Results have been diabolical, even laughable!!!! but i have not seen one Cardiff player not trying, Do people thing Trollope can't be bothered? That no one is putting a shift in? I've seen them! They do try on the field. There is not one player walking around, not going for a tackle, or not chasing balls. The effort is there from the team and management, So why Boo?
Why are we blaming the players because they are off form or lacking in confidence? isn't it our role as supporters to get behind the team no matter what? i cant see the logic in deflating an already struggling team. OUR team!!!


We're in this together....

We have no money, we have no prima donnas, we have a bare bones squad. But, we have Welsh Players, A Welsh Manager, a Great stadium and we play in a Blue Adidas Kit!!! The players and Management are out there trying different things every week, we can not change the owner, Manager or bring in any more players until January. So hows about we all dig in and do our bit to climb the table, its a hell of a long season and it would be a disaster to finish in the bottom 3.

Our club is trying to fix past mistakes that were made by the current regime. How many of our Previous Owners/Chairmen have stuck around to do that?
It's gonna take at least 3 solid seasons to get any solid sorting of the crap. I have no intention of going anywhere, nor will i play a part in making things worse By booing my own team, I can not see any way that helps!

Lady Luck was shining down on us today helped by the near 400 Bluebirds that supported their team non stop, we as a team need to take this momentum into Tuesday, Derby are in a far worse state than us, (you wait for that embargo in January!)


For better, For worse, I am a Bluebird,

See You on Tuesday......

Love this! ! Well Said mate!

I thought the ffp had changed to be a £39 mil loss after 3 years rather than £13 million each season? So in effect you could lose £39 million this year but then nothing for the next 2 seasons??

Not sure if it works exactly that way BB. As you have pointed out it is a 3 year 'rolling' time scale so the previous 2 years will always be included in the results for the present year.

The past 2 years we have made a loss of £12.8m and an amazing profit of £3.8m last season. So in theory we have lost £9m over the past 2 years leaving scope of £30m this year? Throw in VT is writing off £8m per season as debt to equity then it might be £38m!

Of course any loss this season would have a knock on affect to next season and the one after but in either case I don't believe sacking PT would be enough on its own to tip us over, not unless his contract is worth more than £30m

Cheers tony!

Do we have any ideas on what slade was on? Wouldn't have thought PT on any different to him!

1 result doesn't save him.

I thought the ffp had changed to be a £39 mil loss after 3 years rather than £13 million each season? So in effect you could lose £39 million this year but then nothing for the next 2 seasons??

Not sure if it works exactly that way BB. As you have pointed out it is a 3 year 'rolling' time scale so the previous 2 years will always be included in the results for the present year.

The past 2 years we have made a loss of £12.8m and an amazing profit of £3.8m last season. So in theory we have lost £9m over the past 2 years leaving scope of £30m this year? Throw in VT is writing off £8m per season as debt to equity then it might be £38m!

Of course any loss this season would have a knock on affect to next season and the one after but in either case I don't believe sacking PT would be enough on its own to tip us over, not unless his contract is worth more than £30m

Tony,

I have no reason to doubt what you say but if what you say is correct then I am puzzled by a couple of things

1. How come we were in breach of FFP rules last season?
2. Why is FFP being given as a reason for not being able to afford a new manager or new players etc this season?

I'm not for one minute saying we should be spending wildly when the debt is so great but perhaps Since 62 could explain whether and why FFP is in fact providing such a stranglehold on the club this season?

I thought the ffp had changed to be a £39 mil loss after 3 years rather than £13 million each season? So in effect you could lose £39 million this year but then nothing for the next 2 seasons??

Not sure if it works exactly that way BB. As you have pointed out it is a 3 year 'rolling' time scale so the previous 2 years will always be included in the results for the present year.

The past 2 years we have made a loss of £12.8m and an amazing profit of £3.8m last season. So in theory we have lost £9m over the past 2 years leaving scope of £30m this year? Throw in VT is writing off £8m per season as debt to equity then it might be £38m!

Of course any loss this season would have a knock on affect to next season and the one after but in either case I don't believe sacking PT would be enough on its own to tip us over, not unless his contract is worth more than £30m

Tony,

I have no reason to doubt what you say but if what you say is correct then I am puzzled by a couple of things

1. How come we were in breach of FFP rules last season?
2. Why is FFP being given as a reason for not being able to afford a new manager or new players etc this season?

I'm not for one minute saying we should be spending wildly when the debt is so great but perhaps Since 62 could explain whether and why FFP is in fact providing such a stranglehold on the club this season?

The May 2015 accounts showed a net profit of £3.9m. However , in assessing FFP , the League disallowed an accounts credit of £13.4m ( I did a long piece about this at the time which Annis copied on to this board if someone cares to dig it out) so they regarded the "true" figure to be a loss of £9.5m.
The 2015 adjusted loss was after earning a profit on player sales of £9.7m.

So adding the adjusted loss of £9.5m to the previous year loss of £12m makes up £21.5m of the "allowable" 3 year loss of £39m.

In 2015/16 (i.e. last season) , the club didn`t make anything like the same profit on player sales (I believe a £3m profit on Joe Mason was the only significant gain) and also had significantly less income from parachute payments. As a consequence , and despite big wage bill cuts , there would have been big pressure to keep within the FFP boundaries last season. I understand that the club did so ,as the transfer embargo was lifted , but have no more access to the actual figures than anyone else outside the club to be able to check or comment further.

I thought the ffp had changed to be a £39 mil loss after 3 years rather than £13 million each season? So in effect you could lose £39 million this year but then nothing for the next 2 seasons??

Not sure if it works exactly that way BB. As you have pointed out it is a 3 year 'rolling' time scale so the previous 2 years will always be included in the results for the present year.

The past 2 years we have made a loss of £12.8m and an amazing profit of £3.8m last season. So in theory we have lost £9m over the past 2 years leaving scope of £30m this year? Throw in VT is writing off £8m per season as debt to equity then it might be £38m!

Of course any loss this season would have a knock on affect to next season and the one after but in either case I don't believe sacking PT would be enough on its own to tip us over, not unless his contract is worth more than £30m

Tony,

I have no reason to doubt what you say but if what you say is correct then I am puzzled by a couple of things

1. How come we were in breach of FFP rules last season?
2. Why is FFP being given as a reason for not being able to afford a new manager or new players etc this season?

I'm not for one minute saying we should be spending wildly when the debt is so great but perhaps Since 62 could explain whether and why FFP is in fact providing such a stranglehold on the club this season?

The May 2015 accounts showed a net profit of £3.9m. However , in assessing FFP , the League disallowed an accounts credit of £13.4m ( I did a long piece about this at the time which Annis copied on to this board if someone cares to dig it out) so they regarded the "true" figure to be a loss of £9.5m.
The 2015 adjusted loss was after earning a profit on player sales of £9.7m.

So adding the adjusted loss of £9.5m to the previous year loss of £12m makes up £21.5m of the "allowable" 3 year loss of £39m.

In 2015/16 (i.e. last season) , the club didn`t make anything like the same profit on player sales (I believe a £3m profit on Joe Mason was the only significant gain) and also had significantly less income from parachute payments. As a consequence , and despite big wage bill cuts , there would have been big pressure to keep within the FFP boundaries last season. I understand that the club did so ,as the transfer embargo was lifted , but have no more access to the actual figures than anyone else outside the club to be able to check or comment further.

Thanks very much.

So are you saying that last season the club could lose £17.5m and still be within the "allowable" three year loss or is it this season that this figure applies to?

Sorry to be so dumb - maths was never my strong point in school!

I thought the ffp had changed to be a £39 mil loss after 3 years rather than £13 million each season? So in effect you could lose £39 million this year but then nothing for the next 2 seasons??

Not sure if it works exactly that way BB. As you have pointed out it is a 3 year 'rolling' time scale so the previous 2 years will always be included in the results for the present year.

The past 2 years we have made a loss of £12.8m and an amazing profit of £3.8m last season. So in theory we have lost £9m over the past 2 years leaving scope of £30m this year? Throw in VT is writing off £8m per season as debt to equity then it might be £38m!

Of course any loss this season would have a knock on affect to next season and the one after but in either case I don't believe sacking PT would be enough on its own to tip us over, not unless his contract is worth more than £30m

Tony,

I have no reason to doubt what you say but if what you say is correct then I am puzzled by a couple of things

1. How come we were in breach of FFP rules last season?
2. Why is FFP being given as a reason for not being able to afford a new manager or new players etc this season?

I'm not for one minute saying we should be spending wildly when the debt is so great but perhaps Since 62 could explain whether and why FFP is in fact providing such a stranglehold on the club this season?

The May 2015 accounts showed a net profit of £3.9m. However , in assessing FFP , the League disallowed an accounts credit of £13.4m ( I did a long piece about this at the time which Annis copied on to this board if someone cares to dig it out) so they regarded the "true" figure to be a loss of £9.5m.
The 2015 adjusted loss was after earning a profit on player sales of £9.7m.

So adding the adjusted loss of £9.5m to the previous year loss of £12m makes up £21.5m of the "allowable" 3 year loss of £39m.

In 2015/16 (i.e. last season) , the club didn`t make anything like the same profit on player sales (I believe a £3m profit on Joe Mason was the only significant gain) and also had significantly less income from parachute payments. As a consequence , and despite big wage bill cuts , there would have been big pressure to keep within the FFP boundaries last season. I understand that the club did so ,as the transfer embargo was lifted , but have no more access to the actual figures than anyone else outside the club to be able to check or comment further.

Thanks very much.

So are you saying that last season the club could lose £17.5m and still be within the "allowable" three year loss or is it this season that this figure applies to?

Sorry to be so dumb - maths was never my strong point in school!

David you have to view things in '3 season' blocks'. So if you are talking about this season (2016/17) then you would no longer take the season 2013/14 into consideration. It would the losses in 2014/15, 2015/16 and 2016/17 which combined have to be less than £39m.

Of course any 'losses' this season would have a 'knock-on' affect for the next 2 seasons 2017/18 & 2018/19.

I thought the ffp had changed to be a £39 mil loss after 3 years rather than £13 million each season? So in effect you could lose £39 million this year but then nothing for the next 2 seasons??

Not sure if it works exactly that way BB. As you have pointed out it is a 3 year 'rolling' time scale so the previous 2 years will always be included in the results for the present year.

The past 2 years we have made a loss of £12.8m and an amazing profit of £3.8m last season. So in theory we have lost £9m over the past 2 years leaving scope of £30m this year? Throw in VT is writing off £8m per season as debt to equity then it might be £38m!

Of course any loss this season would have a knock on affect to next season and the one after but in either case I don't believe sacking PT would be enough on its own to tip us over, not unless his contract is worth more than £30m

Tony,

I have no reason to doubt what you say but if what you say is correct then I am puzzled by a couple of things

1. How come we were in breach of FFP rules last season?
2. Why is FFP being given as a reason for not being able to afford a new manager or new players etc this season?

I'm not for one minute saying we should be spending wildly when the debt is so great but perhaps Since 62 could explain whether and why FFP is in fact providing such a stranglehold on the club this season?

The May 2015 accounts showed a net profit of £3.9m. However , in assessing FFP , the League disallowed an accounts credit of £13.4m ( I did a long piece about this at the time which Annis copied on to this board if someone cares to dig it out) so they regarded the "true" figure to be a loss of £9.5m.
The 2015 adjusted loss was after earning a profit on player sales of £9.7m.

So adding the adjusted loss of £9.5m to the previous year loss of £12m makes up £21.5m of the "allowable" 3 year loss of £39m.

In 2015/16 (i.e. last season) , the club didn`t make anything like the same profit on player sales (I believe a £3m profit on Joe Mason was the only significant gain) and also had significantly less income from parachute payments. As a consequence , and despite big wage bill cuts , there would have been big pressure to keep within the FFP boundaries last season. I understand that the club did so ,as the transfer embargo was lifted , but have no more access to the actual figures than anyone else outside the club to be able to check or comment further.

Thanks very much.

So are you saying that last season the club could lose £17.5m and still be within the "allowable" three year loss or is it this season that this figure applies to?

Sorry to be so dumb - maths was never my strong point in school!

David you have to view things in '3 season' blocks'. So if you are talking about this season (2016/17) then you would no longer take the season 2013/14 into consideration. It would the losses in 2014/15, 2015/16 and 2016/17 which combined have to be less than £39m.

Of course any 'losses' this season would have a 'knock-on' affect for the next 2 seasons 2017/18 & 2018/19.

So the only figure we know at the moment for the current "3 season block" is the £9.5m loss for 2014/2015? Are we still waiting to hear what the loss was for 2015/2016?

Thanks again - my head hurts!

I thought the ffp had changed to be a £39 mil loss after 3 years rather than £13 million each season? So in effect you could lose £39 million this year but then nothing for the next 2 seasons??

Not sure if it works exactly that way BB. As you have pointed out it is a 3 year 'rolling' time scale so the previous 2 years will always be included in the results for the present year.

The past 2 years we have made a loss of £12.8m and an amazing profit of £3.8m last season. So in theory we have lost £9m over the past 2 years leaving scope of £30m this year? Throw in VT is writing off £8m per season as debt to equity then it might be £38m!

Of course any loss this season would have a knock on affect to next season and the one after but in either case I don't believe sacking PT would be enough on its own to tip us over, not unless his contract is worth more than £30m

Tony,

I have no reason to doubt what you say but if what you say is correct then I am puzzled by a couple of things

1. How come we were in breach of FFP rules last season?
2. Why is FFP being given as a reason for not being able to afford a new manager or new players etc this season?

I'm not for one minute saying we should be spending wildly when the debt is so great but perhaps Since 62 could explain whether and why FFP is in fact providing such a stranglehold on the club this season?

The May 2015 accounts showed a net profit of £3.9m. However , in assessing FFP , the League disallowed an accounts credit of £13.4m ( I did a long piece about this at the time which Annis copied on to this board if someone cares to dig it out) so they regarded the "true" figure to be a loss of £9.5m.
The 2015 adjusted loss was after earning a profit on player sales of £9.7m.

So adding the adjusted loss of £9.5m to the previous year loss of £12m makes up £21.5m of the "allowable" 3 year loss of £39m.

In 2015/16 (i.e. last season) , the club didn`t make anything like the same profit on player sales (I believe a £3m profit on Joe Mason was the only significant gain) and also had significantly less income from parachute payments. As a consequence , and despite big wage bill cuts , there would have been big pressure to keep within the FFP boundaries last season. I understand that the club did so ,as the transfer embargo was lifted , but have no more access to the actual figures than anyone else outside the club to be able to check or comment further.

Thanks very much.

So are you saying that last season the club could lose £17.5m and still be within the "allowable" three year loss or is it this season that this figure applies to?

Sorry to be so dumb - maths was never my strong point in school!

David you have to view things in '3 season' blocks'. So if you are talking about this season (2016/17) then you would no longer take the season 2013/14 into consideration. It would the losses in 2014/15, 2015/16 and 2016/17 which combined have to be less than £39m.

Of course any 'losses' this season would have a 'knock-on' affect for the next 2 seasons 2017/18 & 2018/19.

So the only figure we know at the moment for the current "3 season block" is the £9.5m loss for 2014/2015? Are we still waiting to hear what the loss was for 2015/2016?

Thanks again - my head hurts!

By 1 December 2016 the League have to receive the audited accounts for the 2015/16 season. They will then look at those, together with those for the previous two seasons 2013/14 and 2014/15 and decide if the club is FFP compliant.