Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Bluebirdforlife77 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:33 am

Igovernor wrote:So democracy in this country is dead, a majority voted to leave, and the minority, because they lost the vote to remain now want another referendum. So at the next election, if we do not like who wins it, we should have another election, what a load of Bol****S. If there is another referendum there should only be two choices on the ballot paper (1) accept Mays brexit deal or (2) leave with no deal No way in the world should there be any vote on remaining, the country has already decided to leave.


It’s not just remain I voted leave and I want another one as we not getting what I voted for, there many other leavers to. I’m guessing I governor you voted leave? And now you think that’s not the true will of the people and you think leave will lose this time?? If that is the case then I see why you do t want another vote because you want what a minority want, (not very democratic) like I said before leave will win by a much bigger margin this time round so we don’t need to be scared, and we more likely to get to leave no deal, no soft deal just leave over and out. That’s the democratic way I for one want my say.
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Sneggyblubird » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:58 am

Sven wrote:The truth is we voted 'out' in its simplest form and that is what needs to be delivered

The question was a simple one (see below) and they now need to honour the will of the people. A second Referendum would be abhorrent and an affront to democracy

Some say we are more informed now but that isn't the case. We still don't 'know' the facts of what is to come, as the real negotiation is still to be carried out. There are currently no promises, no guarantees and no consensus amongst either party in both the UK and in the EU

The people (by the simple and democratic majority vote required) made a decision and it's time to honour it...
In one sense your correct of course but the wording of that ballot paper is to blame in my view.Not only that but everyone on this thread seems to be ignoring the fact that no deal whatsoever can be done without taking account of the Good Friday agreement,something that was not considered when drawing up the wording of this ballot paper.I would like to see what plans Boris,JRM and the other hard line brexiteers have for this problem because a boarder of any kind contravenes the law as set out in the GFA.
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Sven » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:04 am

Says it all, really.... :clap:
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby stevee1966 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:09 am

This is constantly referred to as the 'People's Vote'.

The people have already had their vote and the result was to leave.

This should be more appropriately known as the 'Meddling Politicians Vote'.
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Sven » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:21 am

stevee1966 wrote:This is constantly referred to as the 'People's Vote'.

The people have already had their vote and the result was to leave.

This should be more appropriately known as the 'Meddling Politicians Vote'.


And the 'sore losers' vote! :thumbright: :ayatollah:
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby powysblue » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:44 am

QUOTE from Bluebirdforlife77
[color=#FFBF00]I can only see and hope there’s a second referendum. Haven’t voted leave myself this is nothing like what I wanted from leave. How you can call it a dictatorship to have another public vote is the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard. Gauging a now slightly better educated nation now feel on the vote.

I personally think leave will win again in some form and there should be
[/color] more options on the paper.

[color=#FFBF00]I also don’t believe in referendums pointless expecting the[/color] uneducated voters [color=#FFBF00]to make big decisions. We have a general election that’s fair so we should let the people we voted to govern govern[/color].

--------------
It’s not just remain I voted leave and I want another one as we not getting what I voted for, there many other leavers to. [color=#FFBF00]I’m guessing I governor you voted leave? And now you think that’s not the true will of the people and you think leave will lose this time?? If that is the case then I see why you do t want another vote because you want what a minority want, (not very democratic) like I said before leave will win by a much bigger margin this time round so[/color] we don’t need to be scared,[color=#FFBF00] and we more likely to get to leave no deal, no soft deal just leave over and out. That’s the democratic way I for one want my say.[/color]

---------------

Good Morning Bluebirdforlife77,

Could I agree and disagree with some of your points made on a possible second referendum. Like yourself I voted leave and I think that the majority of the uneducated(quote) British Public knew exactly why they voted to Leave the EU (ie)- to leave the EU !!! it is that simple and should have been implemented straight after the artical 50 vote passed through the House of Commons.

Since the momentous result in 2016 that shook the establishment, most remain voters and especially remain voting MP's have tried every trick in the book to frustrate the will of the people and that includes the PM, civil Servants, Big Business, etc. The Question on the ballot paper was Remain or Leave not Leave with a deal or try to please everybody, which is what has happened. The Government has only got itself to blame for this "stale mate" situation.

The reason why most educated and non educated(quote) people think that a second referendum is such a betrayal of democracy is because if you undermine the will of the people in a democracy you run the very real risk that people will say " why should I bother voting as It makes no difference" - then that really does undermine a democracy.

As for if there is a second referendum (God forbid) - there is a very strong chance that you should be scared(quote) as a leave voter. The establishment remainer's will make sure that, as you suggest, there are more than two choices on the ballot paper - Something along the lines of (1)STAY IN EU. (2)LEAVE WITH Mrs MAY's DEAL. (3)LEAVE WITH NO DEAL - the people who voted remain will vote for remain, some of the people who voted leave will vote for Mrs May's deal and some of the people who voted leave will vote to leave with No deal - Thus splitting the Leave vote !! And Guess what - STAYING IN THE EU WINS - Just like the establishment want.

Be careful what you wish for - but I am glad you voted leave.
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:45 am

Cardiff dyskinesia wrote:
First of all, Leave conned the electorate there's no doubt. Secondly, you seem to want to deny people, who are now more educated on brexit a say on their future, and you think that's democracy? Your argument is absurd. Don't you realise the government can't deliver it without damaging the country?


Leave didn't con me for my vote and I knew exactly what I was voting for 2016.

Also why doesn't anyone talk about the 'education' of the consequences of staying in Europe? There are already far right Government's in Austria and Hungry (which means there are 2 far right members of the law making European Commission) and the Far Right is very strong in France, Le Pen came very close to being elected as President in 2017 and Germany has a growing problem with Alternative for Germany (AfD) who hold 88 seats (14%) of the Bundestag.

Several other countries in Eastern Europe have strong Far Right Parties on the rise as does Italy.

Emmanuel Macron wants a European Army with a result that potentially British Troops could serve under a Right Wing EU Commission in the not too distant future.

That's before we factor in the failing economies in Europe and any member state needs the permission of Germany before it can do anything.

Britain would be insane to stick with such an extreme undemocratic gangster led institution and if there is a second referendum my vote will be exactly the same as last time OUT!
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Jock » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:48 am

The Democratic process is being subverted in our country. We had a referendum, we voted to regain control of our country, we must leave.
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Sven » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:58 am

Jock wrote:The Democratic process is being subverted in our country. We had a referendum, we voted to regain control of our country, we must leave.


Yep! :thumbup:

The Ballot Paper was simple enough to read... :ayatollah:
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:00 pm

Sneggyblubird wrote:
Sven wrote:The truth is we voted 'out' in its simplest form and that is what needs to be delivered

The question was a simple one (see below) and they now need to honour the will of the people. A second Referendum would be abhorrent and an affront to democracy

Some say we are more informed now but that isn't the case. We still don't 'know' the facts of what is to come, as the real negotiation is still to be carried out. There are currently no promises, no guarantees and no consensus amongst either party in both the UK and in the EU

The people (by the simple and democratic majority vote required) made a decision and it's time to honour it...
In one sense your correct of course but the wording of that ballot paper is to blame in my view.Not only that but everyone on this thread seems to be ignoring the fact that no deal whatsoever can be done without taking account of the Good Friday agreement,something that was not considered when drawing up the wording of this ballot paper.I would like to see what plans Boris,JRM and the other hard line brexiteers have for this problem because a boarder of any kind contravenes the law as set out in the GFA.


Several times technology has been suggested as a solution to the Northern Ireland border but the EU reject this because they believe the technology doesn't exist. That might be true now but if technology can be developed to send spaceships and lander's to Mars then surely it can be developed for customs checks at the Ulster border?

Also JRM/Boris etc. have always said they have no intention of erecting a hard border between North/South Ireland it is the EU which wants a hard border to 'protect the integrity of the single market'

Therefore if we leave with a no deal and the a hard border appears in Ireland then it would be due to the EU and they would be the ones guilty of breaking the Belfast Agreement
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:03 pm

Jock wrote:The Democratic process is being subverted in our country. We had a referendum, we voted to regain control of our country, we must leave.


Jock I think the word 'Subverted' is the best description of what has happened since the result of the referendum in 2016.
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:05 pm

Sven wrote:
Jock wrote:The Democratic process is being subverted in our country. We had a referendum, we voted to regain control of our country, we must leave.


Yep! :thumbup:

The Ballot Paper was simple enough to read... :ayatollah:


Sven I always laugh when I hear some moaning Remainer state that so and so wasn't on the ballot paper :roll: . Just how long did they want the ballot paper to be?
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby dogfound » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:12 pm

Bananas wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Bananas wrote:100% referendum again. A strong Wales in a strong Europe ASAP please and less/no dependence on the English

#welshandeuropean


(Bbbbrrrrrr....cold up here in Brecon this morning )




i think Wales is much weaker since the comedy club opened down the bay too...new referndum and all those ap Gwilym people can go back to burning houses in Ceredigion

Of course that's the response we expect from thickos just like you. Oh the uneducated and brainwashed.....bless.



your cold in Brecon..give the FWA a ring ,be warm in no time.
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Sven » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:19 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sven wrote:
Jock wrote:The Democratic process is being subverted in our country. We had a referendum, we voted to regain control of our country, we must leave.


Yep! :thumbup:

The Ballot Paper was simple enough to read... :ayatollah:


Sven I always laugh when I hear some moaning Remainer state that so and so wasn't on the ballot paper :roll: . Just how long did they want the ballot paper to be?


Their bitterness shows no limits, it seems ;)

I am confident their reaction wouldn't have be replicated had the vote gone the other way!

Cameron thought he knew the mood of the British people; the British people gave him a bloody nose and the government had no plan for the eventuality, which left the Remoaners time to regroup but even they didn't account for the complete mess the Maybot would make of it! :laughing6:
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby 2blue2handle » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:28 pm

So what if we have another vote and people vote to remain.

That takes it at 1-1 do we have another and final one :banghead:
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby epping blue » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:42 pm

2blue2handle wrote:So what if we have another vote and people vote to remain.

That takes it at 1-1 do we have another and final one :banghead:



No, you will be told to respect the decision of the people ! Parliament is determine to thwart the decision, the vast majority against any sort of Brexit.

Of the 150 labour constituencies that voted to leave only 7 are represented in that view by their parliamentary representatives. They should be only too willing to support May's compromise deal but they'd rather frustrate the deal altogether.

You cant pick and choose democracy to suit your own agenda but that's exactly what many present and passed statesmen of this country are doing.
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby pembroke allan » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:45 pm

2blue2handle wrote:So what if we have another vote and people vote to remain.

That takes it at 1-1 do we have another and final one :banghead:




Nooo the remainers will say the people voted to remain don't need another referendum ! :mrgreen:
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Bananas » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:54 pm

dogfound wrote:
Bananas wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Bananas wrote:100% referendum again. A strong Wales in a strong Europe ASAP please and less/no dependence on the English

#welshandeuropean


(Bbbbrrrrrr....cold up here in Brecon this morning )




i think Wales is much weaker since the comedy club opened down the bay too...new referndum and all those ap Gwilym people can go back to burning houses in Ceredigion

Of course that's the response we expect from thickos just like you. Oh the uneducated and brainwashed.....bless.



your cold in Brecon..give the FWA a ring ,be warm in no time.


:? Oh dear. Bless.
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby CaerphillyBluebird15 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:11 pm

When will people learn that discussing politics is a trap...

Had fun reading it though :happy1:
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Jock » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:23 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Sven wrote:The truth is we voted 'out' in its simplest form and that is what needs to be delivered

The question was a simple one (see below) and they now need to honour the will of the people. A second Referendum would be abhorrent and an affront to democracy

Some say we are more informed now but that isn't the case. We still don't 'know' the facts of what is to come, as the real negotiation is still to be carried out. There are currently no promises, no guarantees and no consensus amongst either party in both the UK and in the EU

The people (by the simple and democratic majority vote required) made a decision and it's time to honour it...
In one sense your correct of course but the wording of that ballot paper is to blame in my view.Not only that but everyone on this thread seems to be ignoring the fact that no deal whatsoever can be done without taking account of the Good Friday agreement,something that was not considered when drawing up the wording of this ballot paper.I would like to see what plans Boris,JRM and the other hard line brexiteers have for this problem because a boarder of any kind contravenes the law as set out in the GFA.


Several times technology has been suggested as a solution to the Northern Ireland border but the EU reject this because they believe the technology doesn't exist. That might be true now but if technology can be developed to send spaceships and lander's to Mars then surely it can be developed for customs checks at the Ulster border?

Also JRM/Boris etc. have always said they have no intention of erecting a hard border between North/South Ireland it is the EU which wants a hard border to 'protect the integrity of the single market'

Therefore if we leave with a no deal and the a hard border appears in Ireland then it would be due to the EU and they would be the ones guilty of breaking the Belfast Agreement

Number plate recognition technology is widely used already. Bit of a tangent but playing golf in Portugal and the buggies were stopped, by GPS technology, from getting too near to the greens or approaches. Find it very hard to believe we don’t have the wherewithal to use technological methods to avoid a hard border.
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Sneggyblubird » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:41 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Sven wrote:The truth is we voted 'out' in its simplest form and that is what needs to be delivered

The question was a simple one (see below) and they now need to honour the will of the people. A second Referendum would be abhorrent and an affront to democracy

Some say we are more informed now but that isn't the case. We still don't 'know' the facts of what is to come, as the real negotiation is still to be carried out. There are currently no promises, no guarantees and no consensus amongst either party in both the UK and in the EU

The people (by the simple and democratic majority vote required) made a decision and it's time to honour it...
In one sense your correct of course but the wording of that ballot paper is to blame in my view.Not only that but everyone on this thread seems to be ignoring the fact that no deal whatsoever can be done without taking account of the Good Friday agreement,something that was not considered when drawing up the wording of this ballot paper.I would like to see what plans Boris,JRM and the other hard line brexiteers have for this problem because a boarder of any kind contravenes the law as set out in the GFA.


Several times technology has been suggested as a solution to the Northern Ireland border but the EU reject this because they believe the technology doesn't exist. That might be true now but if technology can be developed to send spaceships and lander's to Mars then surely it can be developed for customs checks at the Ulster border?

Also JRM/Boris etc. have always said they have no intention of erecting a hard border between North/South Ireland it is the EU which wants a hard border to 'protect the integrity of the single market'

Therefore if we leave with a no deal and the a hard border appears in Ireland then it would be due to the EU and they would be the ones guilty of breaking the Belfast Agreement


Nice try Tony but not even Boris or JRM would attempt to do anything like that because it would be a total abdication of their responsibility to all of the country not just a few home counties.The EU are not responsible and you could argue they've done all they can to help on that score.It's our problem and shouting loudest with blinkers on won't fix it.This whole thread is a waste of time as nobody seems to want to address this issue.
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby bluebird04 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:59 pm

I voted remain, on the basis that a lot of Welsh towns receive vital funding from the EU that we wouldn't get from parliament....I'm now firm for brexit. Not because I believe in it. But what a second referendum would represent. Basically a dictatorship. Anyone tries to leave, the EU just has to offer a really bad deal. Make the people scared so they remain. And then punish them for even asking to leave.

I like to think of it as a break up. If a girl told me, hey I want to end up this relationship. And I say fine but you can't date anyone in the area, no one else will want you. And you will end up alone. She stays. Then really I have just manipulated her into staying which is actually controlling and illegal I now believe.
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby alexc » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:03 pm

If the people want Brexit then what is there to fear about a 2nd referendum?

:laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5:
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Bluebird1990 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:16 pm

Unless the EU promises massive reforms then no chance will people want another vote
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Sven » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:18 pm

alexc wrote:If the people want Brexit then what is there to fear about a 2nd referendum?

:laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5:


Not too sure what's 'funny' here but to put you straight...

The British people had a vote, they chose (by a simple majority) to leave the European Union and (to date) the UK government has failed in its constitutional duty to implicate the vote in its truest sense, i.e. leave the European Union

There is no fear factor for a second referendum; just a frustration that a rather vocal and embittered people now want to use any method they can to frustrate the process in an attempt to remain

The fault is not with the Brexiteers, fella; it's morally with those who think democracy is to keep voting until you get the result they desire ;)
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby captbirdseye » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:26 pm

The Sir Ivan Rogers speech pretty much sums up the mess we are in.

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13 ... on-brexit/
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Sven » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:06 pm

captbirdseye wrote:The Sir Ivan Rogers speech pretty much sums up the mess we are in.

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13 ... on-brexit/


An interesting, if not long, read :thumbright:

This final 'Lesson' in his speech is possible the most poignant and relevant to this last few days happenings...



Ninth lesson:

Real honesty with the public is the best – the only – policy if we are to get to the other side of Brexit with a healthy democracy, a reasonably unified country and a healthy economy.

The debate of the last 30 months has suffered from opacity, delusion-mongering and mendacity on all sides.

The Prime Minister’s call for opponents of her deal to “be honest” and not simply wish away intractable problems like the backstop, which was always, and will remain, a central question in any resolution of the issue, is reasonable enough.

I have talked briefly already of the quite extraordinary “cakeism” in the various options in the table.

And at the extremes we have the “no dealers” quite happy to jump off the cliff, lying openly about the extent to which WTO rules provide a safety net if we did, and producing fantasy “managed no deal” options which will not fly for the reasons I have set out.

And the “people’s voters”. I confess I deplore the term itself: they want a second referendum with remain on the ballot – for which one can make a case, given the dismal place we have now ended up, and given possible Parliamentary paralysis, but must surely understand the huge further alienation that would engender amongst those who will think that, yet again, their views are being ignored until they conform.

And even yesterday morning I listened to a Shadow Cabinet Member promising, with a straight face, that, even after a General Election, there would be time for Labour to negotiate a completely different deal – INCLUDING a full trade deal, which would replicate all the advantages of the Single Market and Customs Union. And all before March 30th. I assume they haven’t yet stopped laughing in Brussels.

Too much of our political debate just insults people’s intelligence and just suggests that every facet of Brexit you don’t like is purely a feature of only the Prime Minister’s version of it, rather than intrinsic to leaving.

I dislike plenty of the Prime Minister’s deal. It’s obviously a bad deal. But given her own views and preferences, her bitterly divided Party and the negotiating realities with the other side of the table, I can at least understand that she is on pretty much the only landing zone she could ever reach.

Those aspiring to a radically different one owe us honest accounts, not pipedreams, of how they propose to get there, and the timescale over which they will.

But the dishonesty of the debate has, I am afraid, been fuelled by Government for the last 2½ years.

It took ages before grudging recognition was given to the reality that no trade deal – even an embryonic one – would be struck before exit, and that no trade deals with other players would be in place either.

Even now, though, the Prime Minister still talks publicly about the Political Declaration as if it defined the future relationship with some degree of precision, and defined it largely in line with her own Chequers proposal, when it simply does neither.

It is vague to the point of vacuity in many places, strewn with adjectives and studiously ambiguous in a way that enables it to be sold as offering something to all, without committing anyone fully to anything.

Any number of different final destinations are accommodable within this text, which was precisely the thinking in drafting it, to maximise the chances of it being voted through, when all the EU side was really determined to nail now was within the Withdrawal Treaty: rights, money and the backstop.

For the same reason – the desperate inability to acknowledge that it was going to take very many years to get to the other side of the Brexit process – we have had the bizarre euphemism of the “implementation period” after March 2019, when there is precisely nothing to “implement”, and precisely everything still to negotiate.

I dislike the “vassal state” terminology, but anyone can see the democratic problem with being subject to laws made in rooms where no Brit was present and living under a Court’s jurisdiction where there is no British judge.

And if we are to avoid the backstop coming into force, we are now going to end up prolonging the transition, because the FTA won’t be done by the end of 2020, and the EU well knows the

U.K. won’t be keen on cliff jumping in the run up to an election.

We have had the several bizarre contortions over trying to invent a Customs proposal which enabled us to escape the Common External Tariff but still derive all the advantages of a quasi Customs Union. Even the all U.K. backstop proposal has ended up being called a temporary Arrangement, when we all actually know it to be a temporary Union, as nothing else could fly under WTO rules. But the U word is too toxic for polite company evidently.

On the backstop itself, it was obvious, reading the December 2017 Agreement document from outside Government that this must lead inexorably to where we have now reached.

There was no other endgame from that point. Which was why, a year ago, I started telling corporates they were really seriously underestimating the chances of a “no deal” outcome.

But we got sophistry, evasions, euphemisms and sometimes straight denials at home, whilst in the EU, the PM and senior Ministers several times appeared to be backsliding on clear commitments as soon as they saw draft legal texts giving effect to agreements they had struck.

That deepened the distrust and if anything hardened the EU’s resolve to nail the issue down legally. And, from the apoplectic reaction to the Attorney General’s advice, which elegantly stated the totally obvious, you can now rather see why.

There is no point in my speculating here precisely on what might now get manufactured and its legal status. The EU is always very adroit at such exercises in solemnly reframing things which have already been agreed in ways that make the medicine slip down.

But however they re-emphasise their intention, which I believe, that the backstop should not be permanent, it is the very existence of it in conjunction with the cliff edge which will dictate the shape of the trade negotiations.

We may well now be beyond the point at which any clarification Declaration or Decision can sell.

And if we are, it’s largely because the whole conduct of the negotiation has further burned through trust in the political class.

That, in my view, should force a fundamental rethink of how the next phase is conducted; whether this deal staggers, with some clarification, across the line in several weeks time and we go into the next phase with the cards stacked, or whether we have a new Prime Minister who attempts to reset direction, but will find, as I say, that whatever reset they attempt, rather a lot of the negotiating dynamics and parameters remain completely unchanged.

Either way, my final lesson is that we shall need a radically different method and style if the country is to heal and unify behind some proposed destination.

And that requires leadership which is far more honest in setting out the fundamental choices still ahead, the difficult trade offs between sovereignty and national control and keeping market access for our goods and services in our biggest market, and which sets out to build at least some viable consensus.

I would like to end with a quote which seems to me to be particularly appropriate on this day, at this time. This famous speech is made by a King who has gained power, still holds it, but whose enemies are now openly attacking him. He can no longer find the meaning in the success he has won, or even in life itself. In a compelling image he speaks of life, and in particular of the part he has played in life as: “a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his time upon the stage. It is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

The time to lose ourselves in stories has ended. Our politicians can no longer get away with strutting and fretting or with sound and fury. It’s time to wake up from the dream and face the facts.
"If you think what I say is 'offensive' to you, you should hear what I keep to myself...!"
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby Mr Potato » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:23 pm

snoopystorm wrote:We voted, result was Out, end of, can’t change it.....,

If there is a 2nd referendum then there also has to be a public vote of no confidence in the Government and the voting system. It will prove that our voices mean sod all


The government have stated their position, it’s labour, the lib dems and the Scottish who are pushing for people’s vote, the governance stance is they will honour the result.
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby dogfound » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:32 pm

alexc wrote:If the people want Brexit then what is there to fear about a 2nd referendum?

:laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5:




what is to fear is the loss of democracy itself.
you quite simply can not have both a democracy and also re votes if you do not like a result..
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Re: Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

Postby stuey1981 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:46 pm

Cardiff dyskinesia wrote:
RhiwEbbwBluebird wrote:Interested in hearing other peoples opinion on this? Seems a lot of politicians and the mainstream media are pushing for this big time now as theresa mays deal looks unlikely going through parliament.

For me it was be an absolout insult to the british people and i think it would be basically living under dictatorship and not a democracy. Would it spark outrage and riots from the people if this happened? Rioting against a dictatorship government who have conned the people would be what is needed and would be great imo. Opinions?


First of all, Leave conned the electorate there's no doubt. Secondly, you seem to want to deny people, who are now more educated on brexit a say on their future, and you think that's democracy? Your argument is absurd. Don't you realise the government can't deliver it without damaging the country?


Dont speak for me thanks.
I was not conned at all and knew what i was voting for.
If people didnt educate themselves its not anyone elses fault but there own. I also know people whe voted remain but now want to leave due to how europe are trying to dictate to us even now.
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