' Financial Fair Play Regulations '

One thing that has been on my mind lately has been the likely affect of the FL Financial Fair Play Regulations that are now in place for Championship clubs, and more importantly how are they likely to affect our club next season.

In simple terms and if the same rules as last season apply next season then ALL Championship clubs will be required to operate with losses of no more than £3m, less exceptions like Youth Development, Community scheme and any promotion related bonuses. Clubs can go as far as £8m in losses as long as the owners are prepared to make the difference between £3-8m subject to an equity injection. Clubs that go above £10m will be subjected to a transfer ban which will remain in place until the club can demonstrate the club is on track to record "acceptable" losses in line with the FFP scheme i.e. maximum £3m loss.

Any club going above £10m loss and gaining promotion in that season will have to pay a FFP tax levy which if these regulations were in place the season we were promoted where we recorded a £31m loss would result in a FFP Tax of £14m.

With £23m in parachute payments next season hopefully our club will not fall foul of these regulations but if we did and the loss is more than £3m but less than £8m then the owners WILL be required to use equity in the club to cover these losses above £3m if further sanctions are to be avoided. If we were in that position and the owners failed to cover the losses by equity conversion then a transfer ban WILL be imposed until suchtime that the club can demonstrate that losses are "acceptable" under the FFP scheme.

The club will be required to submit to the FL the current performance against the regulations in December and must be able to demonstrate that the club is complying with these regulations.

Much is being made of VT promise to convert debt to equity, and rightly so as it was a promise of his re-brand, but right now is it in the best interests of the club to use any or ALL available shares in a debt to equity conversion. Is it better that only a part of his debt is converted, as he recently suggested was possible, and leave enough room to complete any potential requirement to do so next season?

FFL for Football League clubs is here and next season will be our first experience of it and I hope our club is planning ahead for ALL outcomes, even if that means delaying any debt to equity conversion ahead of any potential exposure for our club next season.

Tans not as stupid as some people think,the club are probably well aware of what you've stated and will maximise everything to their advantage regarding fair play regulations.
You've made some good points.

Tans not as stupid as some people think,the club are probably well aware of what you've stated and will maximise everything to their advantage regarding fair play regulations.
You've made some good points.

I hope they are because we simply cannot afford a £14m fine which is what the FFP tax levy is. But this FFP scheme does make owners stop and think and that has to be a good thing.

Great post!

One thing that has been on my mind lately has been the likely affect of the FL Financial Fair Play Regulations that are now in place for Championship clubs, and more importantly how are they likely to affect our club next season.

In simple terms and if the same rules as last season apply next season then ALL Championship clubs will be required to operate with losses of no more than £3m, less exceptions like Youth Development, Community scheme and any promotion related bonuses. Clubs can go as far as £8m in losses as long as the owners are prepared to make the difference between £3-8m subject to an equity injection. Clubs that go above £10m will be subjected to a transfer ban which will remain in place until the club can demonstrate the club is on track to record "acceptable" losses in line with the FFP scheme i.e. maximum £3m loss.

Any club going above £10m loss and gaining promotion in that season will have to pay a FFP tax levy which if these regulations were in place the season we were promoted where we recorded a £31m loss would result in a FFP Tax of £14m.

With £23m in parachute payments next season hopefully our club will not fall foul of these regulations but if we did and the loss is more than £3m but less than £8m then the owners WILL be required to use equity in the club to cover these losses above £3m if further sanctions are to be avoided. If we were in that position and the owners failed to cover the losses by equity conversion then a transfer ban WILL be imposed until suchtime that the club can demonstrate that losses are "acceptable" under the FFP scheme.

The club will be required to submit to the FL the current performance against the regulations in December and must be able to demonstrate that the club is complying with these regulations.

Much is being made of VT promise to convert debt to equity, and rightly so as it was a promise of his re-brand, but right now is it in the best interests of the club to use any or ALL available shares in a debt to equity conversion. Is it better that only a part of his debt is converted, as he recently suggested was possible, and leave enough room to complete any potential requirement to do so next season?

FFL for Football League clubs is here and next season will be our first experience of it and I hope our club is planning ahead for ALL outcomes, even if that means delaying any debt to equity conversion ahead of any potential exposure for our club next season.

I posted about FFP in another thread, like everyone else on here II was concerned about this debt to equity taken so long to convert, but when I saw a letter in the echo pointing out what Tan could be doing it made sense to me that is why i copied it on here/
for anybody that missed it here it is


I’m not giving up on Mr Tan just yet
I write in response to “Andrews needs to give Tan a chance” by Clayton Jones (Feedback, May 16).
Mr Jones is absolutely correct about the overreaction by Mr Andrews and some Bluebirds supporters, especially regarding the “debt to equity” issue.
What no-one has taken into consideration are the Financial Fair Play (FFP) regulations. It might astonish those who have not considered FFP, but the fact is we as a club cannot “lose” more than £3m a season (or £9m over a monitored period of three seasons in the Football League, £105m in the Premier League). However, losses can go up to £8m a season (or £24m over three seasons) if “an owner injects equity into the club”, which is exactly what VT did when he converted £50m of his loans.
The past three-year monitoring period (2011/13) we have “lost” around £50m (when exempt items are deducted such as promotion bonuses). As Vincent Tan has covered most of those losses we owe him £65m in loans (published accounts May 2013). VT’s “current” loans may be as high as £150m but the FFP works on published accounts, i.e. those published in January covering the period up to May 2013. In those accounts Vincent Tan is apparently owed £65m so he has converted 77% of his loans to equity, not 33% as claimed by Andrews and others.
If supporters are to continue to beat VT with the debt-to-equity stick they should start factoring in the FFP variable.
It is my opinion that VT could convert all his loans now if he wanted, but is being advised not to because equity exchange each season keeps the PL/FL happy with regard to FFP and gives the club maximum flexibility to stay within its guidelines and avoids sanctions such as fines or points deductions.
Of course this doesn’t change us back to our true colours of blue, but as a “reluctant red” on the back of debt to equity, I’m not giving up on VT just yet.
Anthony Williams
Newport

Tans not as stupid as some people think,the club are probably well aware of what you've stated and will maximise everything to their advantage regarding fair play regulations.
You've made some good points.

I hope they are because we simply cannot afford a £14m fine which is what the FFP tax levy is. But this FFP scheme does make owners stop and think and that has to be a good thing.

id have thought Tan knows exactly what he is doing..........he runs various businesses in different countries.....i can only imagine how many regs and how much red tape there is to go through.......
way to many people here view him as the village idiot..............call someone a clown enough times and you believe it yourself........doesnt make them a clown though..........just means that you yourself have tunnel vision....

Very enlightening thread.

One thing that has been on my mind lately has been the likely affect of the FL Financial Fair Play Regulations that are now in place for Championship clubs, and more importantly how are they likely to affect our club next season.

In simple terms and if the same rules as last season apply next season then ALL Championship clubs will be required to operate with losses of no more than £3m, less exceptions like Youth Development, Community scheme and any promotion related bonuses. Clubs can go as far as £8m in losses as long as the owners are prepared to make the difference between £3-8m subject to an equity injection. Clubs that go above £10m will be subjected to a transfer ban which will remain in place until the club can demonstrate the club is on track to record "acceptable" losses in line with the FFP scheme i.e. maximum £3m loss.

Any club going above £10m loss and gaining promotion in that season will have to pay a FFP tax levy which if these regulations were in place the season we were promoted where we recorded a £31m loss would result in a FFP Tax of £14m.

With £23m in parachute payments next season hopefully our club will not fall foul of these regulations but if we did and the loss is more than £3m but less than £8m then the owners WILL be required to use equity in the club to cover these losses above £3m if further sanctions are to be avoided. If we were in that position and the owners failed to cover the losses by equity conversion then a transfer ban WILL be imposed until suchtime that the club can demonstrate that losses are "acceptable" under the FFP scheme.

The club will be required to submit to the FL the current performance against the regulations in December and must be able to demonstrate that the club is complying with these regulations.

Much is being made of VT promise to convert debt to equity, and rightly so as it was a promise of his re-brand, but right now is it in the best interests of the club to use any or ALL available shares in a debt to equity conversion. Is it better that only a part of his debt is converted, as he recently suggested was possible, and leave enough room to complete any potential requirement to do so next season?

FFL for Football League clubs is here and next season will be our first experience of it and I hope our club is planning ahead for ALL outcomes, even if that means delaying any debt to equity conversion ahead of any potential exposure for our club next season.

I posted about FFP in another thread, like everyone else on here II was concerned about this debt to equity taken so long to convert, but when I saw a letter in the echo pointing out what Tan could be doing it made sense to me that is why i copied it on here/
for anybody that missed it here it is


I’m not giving up on Mr Tan just yet
I write in response to “Andrews needs to give Tan a chance” by Clayton Jones (Feedback, May 16).
Mr Jones is absolutely correct about the overreaction by Mr Andrews and some Bluebirds supporters, especially regarding the “debt to equity” issue.
What no-one has taken into consideration are the Financial Fair Play (FFP) regulations. It might astonish those who have not considered FFP, but the fact is we as a club cannot “lose” more than £3m a season (or £9m over a monitored period of three seasons in the Football League, £105m in the Premier League). However, losses can go up to £8m a season (or £24m over three seasons) if “an owner injects equity into the club”, which is exactly what VT did when he converted £50m of his loans.
The past three-year monitoring period (2011/13) we have “lost” around £50m (when exempt items are deducted such as promotion bonuses). As Vincent Tan has covered most of those losses we owe him £65m in loans (published accounts May 2013). VT’s “current” loans may be as high as £150m but the FFP works on published accounts, i.e. those published in January covering the period up to May 2013. In those accounts Vincent Tan is apparently owed £65m so he has converted 77% of his loans to equity, not 33% as claimed by Andrews and others.
If supporters are to continue to beat VT with the debt-to-equity stick they should start factoring in the FFP variable.
It is my opinion that VT could convert all his loans now if he wanted, but is being advised not to because equity exchange each season keeps the PL/FL happy with regard to FFP and gives the club maximum flexibility to stay within its guidelines and avoids sanctions such as fines or points deductions.
Of course this doesn’t change us back to our true colours of blue, but as a “reluctant red” on the back of debt to equity, I’m not giving up on VT just yet.
Anthony Williams
Newport

Warning Warning Positivity Alert Positivity Alert,
Good post.

But you will get 100 lashes from the usual suspects.

Well I think this safely puts to bed this latest stick to beat Tan with. All the agenda driven mods seem to have gone into hiding now and Carl should particularly hang his head in shame after his abusive rant at myself. I've reported it but I don't expect it to make a difference.

Right, important things now. I think we need to start a sweepstake on the following subjects

1) how long till they find the next sick

2) what the next stick will be

3) how long will it take for it to be blown out of the water

I hate what Tan has done with our colours, badge and riding roughshod over our tradition BUT you don't become a billionaire by being stupid and financially he knows exactly what he is doing

Well I think this safely puts to bed this latest stick to beat Tan with. All the agenda driven mods seem to have gone into hiding now and Carl should particularly hang his head in shame after his abusive rant at myself. I've reported it but I don't expect it to make a difference.

Right, important things now. I think we need to start a sweepstake on the following subjects

1) how long till they find the next sick

2) what the next stick will be

3) how long will it take for it to be blown out of the water

1] a day
2] marshall should score more........that hasnt been done in ages
3] how long before blown out of water.......or how long before its admitted?

Well I think this safely puts to bed this latest stick to beat Tan with. All the agenda driven mods seem to have gone into hiding now and Carl should particularly hang his head in shame after his abusive rant at myself. I've reported it but I don't expect it to make a difference.

Right, important things now. I think we need to start a sweepstake on the following subjects

1) how long till they find the next sick

2) what the next stick will be

3) how long will it take for it to be blown out of the water

In fairness to the mods this thread has been made a "Sticky" even though it does fly in the face of the VT promised the debt to equity conversion stick which is being used to give the man a major beating at the moment. That is the thing I like about this board though it will not stifle debate and we should ALL respect that even if our views differ on any given subject.

The problem I see with using this BIG debt to equity stick, and in particular the alledged promise to make the club "Debt Free" is that things change and the FFP Regulations are a perfect example of that.

In his statement issued at the time of the re-brand VT made a number of promises but the club being "Debt Free" was not one of them. The term he used was that the club would be "Virtually" debt free, whatever that means, but in my opinion that has to mean that the club would still carry some debt so it's not fair to continue to claim he said he would make the club debt free, because he simply didn't.

In my opinion we should at least give the man credit for keeping his promise to settle the Langston issue, which he has, for investing money in the playing squad, which he has, for developing the stadium and a new training ground which is happening.

Unfortunately this has come at the cost of the team playing in red and right now VT has failed to sell this to the fanbase, he knows this, and eventually and hopefully sooner rather than later he will undue this and return the club to blue.

In the meantime should it be that difficult to say you know what VT has kept a number of the promises he made, and on that basis surely he WILL do a debt to equity conversion at sometime. But he must not handcuff himself now as he needs to leave room to make a debt to equity conversion should it be required under FFP Regulations.

To do anything else, in my opinion, would in business terms be madness.

I hate what Tan has done with our colours, badge and riding roughshod over our tradition BUT you don't become a billionaire by being stupid and financially he knows exactly what he is doing

I've said this on here many times, but it is a fact that conveniently been ignored by many.

I hate what Tan has done with our colours, badge and riding roughshod over our tradition BUT you don't become a billionaire by being stupid and financially he knows exactly what he is doing

I've said this on here many times, but it is a fact that conveniently been ignored by many.

Correct so have many many more of us. It's possibly to hate the picture but still follow the artist when the rest of the collection are fine.

One thing that has been on my mind lately has been the likely affect of the FL Financial Fair Play Regulations that are now in place for Championship clubs, and more importantly how are they likely to affect our club next season.

In simple terms and if the same rules as last season apply next season then ALL Championship clubs will be required to operate with losses of no more than £3m, less exceptions like Youth Development, Community scheme and any promotion related bonuses. Clubs can go as far as £8m in losses as long as the owners are prepared to make the difference between £3-8m subject to an equity injection. Clubs that go above £10m will be subjected to a transfer ban which will remain in place until the club can demonstrate the club is on track to record "acceptable" losses in line with the FFP scheme i.e. maximum £3m loss.

Any club going above £10m loss and gaining promotion in that season will have to pay a FFP tax levy which if these regulations were in place the season we were promoted where we recorded a £31m loss would result in a FFP Tax of £14m.

With £23m in parachute payments next season hopefully our club will not fall foul of these regulations but if we did and the loss is more than £3m but less than £8m then the owners WILL be required to use equity in the club to cover these losses above £3m if further sanctions are to be avoided. If we were in that position and the owners failed to cover the losses by equity conversion then a transfer ban WILL be imposed until suchtime that the club can demonstrate that losses are "acceptable" under the FFP scheme.

The club will be required to submit to the FL the current performance against the regulations in December and must be able to demonstrate that the club is complying with these regulations.

Much is being made of VT promise to convert debt to equity, and rightly so as it was a promise of his re-brand, but right now is it in the best interests of the club to use any or ALL available shares in a debt to equity conversion. Is it better that only a part of his debt is converted, as he recently suggested was possible, and leave enough room to complete any potential requirement to do so next season?

FFL for Football League clubs is here and next season will be our first experience of it and I hope our club is planning ahead for ALL outcomes, even if that means delaying any debt to equity conversion ahead of any potential exposure for our club next season.

Some interesting points , but a couple of fundamental misunderstandings of how FFP will impact on CCFC next season and thereafter.

Firstly , the Championship rules do not apply to us for next season as a club newly relegated from the Premier League. We have to comply (in our May 2014 accounts to be submitted by 1 December) with the PL FFP rules of losses of no more than £105m over 3 years - we do with a profit to be shown in the May 2014 accounts.

Secondly , the rules as currently drafted (they may change by interpretation as actual cases are considered by the authorities) say that the "top up" of allowed losses from £3m to £8m (or £2m to £7m season 2) can only be covered by NEW share capital subscription by owners , not by a conversion of debt which already exists into shares.

So any requirement to hold back an element of debt to equity conversion will not be needed until season 2014/15 , if at all.

One thing that has been on my mind lately has been the likely affect of the FL Financial Fair Play Regulations that are now in place for Championship clubs, and more importantly how are they likely to affect our club next season.

In simple terms and if the same rules as last season apply next season then ALL Championship clubs will be required to operate with losses of no more than £3m, less exceptions like Youth Development, Community scheme and any promotion related bonuses. Clubs can go as far as £8m in losses as long as the owners are prepared to make the difference between £3-8m subject to an equity injection. Clubs that go above £10m will be subjected to a transfer ban which will remain in place until the club can demonstrate the club is on track to record "acceptable" losses in line with the FFP scheme i.e. maximum £3m loss.

Any club going above £10m loss and gaining promotion in that season will have to pay a FFP tax levy which if these regulations were in place the season we were promoted where we recorded a £31m loss would result in a FFP Tax of £14m.

With £23m in parachute payments next season hopefully our club will not fall foul of these regulations but if we did and the loss is more than £3m but less than £8m then the owners WILL be required to use equity in the club to cover these losses above £3m if further sanctions are to be avoided. If we were in that position and the owners failed to cover the losses by equity conversion then a transfer ban WILL be imposed until suchtime that the club can demonstrate that losses are "acceptable" under the FFP scheme.

The club will be required to submit to the FL the current performance against the regulations in December and must be able to demonstrate that the club is complying with these regulations.

Much is being made of VT promise to convert debt to equity, and rightly so as it was a promise of his re-brand, but right now is it in the best interests of the club to use any or ALL available shares in a debt to equity conversion. Is it better that only a part of his debt is converted, as he recently suggested was possible, and leave enough room to complete any potential requirement to do so next season?

FFL for Football League clubs is here and next season will be our first experience of it and I hope our club is planning ahead for ALL outcomes, even if that means delaying any debt to equity conversion ahead of any potential exposure for our club next season.

Some interesting points , but a couple of fundamental misunderstandings of how FFP will impact on CCFC next season and thereafter.

Firstly , the Championship rules do not apply to us for next season as a club newly relegated from the Premier League. We have to comply (in our May 2014 accounts to be submitted by 1 December) with the PL FFP rules of losses of no more than £105m over 3 years - we do with a profit to be shown in the May 2014 accounts.

Secondly , the rules as currently drafted (they may change by interpretation as actual cases are considered by the authorities) say that the "top up" of allowed losses from £3m to £8m (or £2m to £7m season 2) can only be covered by NEW share capital subscription by owners , not by a conversion of debt which already exists into shares.

So any requirement to hold back an element of debt to equity conversion will not be needed until season 2014/15 , if at all.

Well it's all about opinions but I'm 100% sure that we will have to comply with the FFP Regulations for Championship clubs even as a relegated club. Of course I accept that as a newly relegated club our accounts for the year to May 2014 will reflect our season in the PL but as a Championship club we MUST be able to demonstrate to the Football League that we are complying, in FULL, with the requirements of FFP for next season. To allow a relegated club to operate outside of these regulations would be absolutely rediculous and I cannot see how anyone could seriously suggest that they wouldn't, receiving £23m in parachute payments is enough of a benefit without been given the freedom to do as we want next season. In suggesting that these regulations won't apply to us next season you are I'm sorry absolutely wrong.

In respect of NEW share capital the club is sitting on millions of new shares following a general meeting a few years back, shares that can be sold at the discretion of the board or in other words VT. With the further investment in stadium expansion and training ground that will give the board another opportunity to get a further share issue approved so already having NEW shares available and with the opportunity to issue more then to me it makes perfect sense to use these as and when required by the club.

And they may be required before the accounts for the year ending MAY 2015 are published and relegated club or not the Football League WILL be expecting the club to have complied with the FFP Regulations throughout next season.

If a club in the championship has a debt of £3m then no sanctions are in place, if the debt is between £3 & £8m then the owner of the club can put debt to equity to reduce the loss to under £3m then no sanctions take place, if the debt is above £8m and the club has gained promotion to the premier league the club has to pay fair play tax.

If the club remains in the championship a transfer embargo is put into place until the club can show that they have acceptable losses/profit in place.
QPR, Reading, and Wigan have to submit their 2013/14 accounts to the football league, while us Fulham, and Norwich have to submit our 2013/14 accounts to the Premier League

One thing that has been on my mind lately has been the likely affect of the FL Financial Fair Play Regulations that are now in place for Championship clubs, and more importantly how are they likely to affect our club next season.

In simple terms and if the same rules as last season apply next season then ALL Championship clubs will be required to operate with losses of no more than £3m, less exceptions like Youth Development, Community scheme and any promotion related bonuses. Clubs can go as far as £8m in losses as long as the owners are prepared to make the difference between £3-8m subject to an equity injection. Clubs that go above £10m will be subjected to a transfer ban which will remain in place until the club can demonstrate the club is on track to record "acceptable" losses in line with the FFP scheme i.e. maximum £3m loss.

Any club going above £10m loss and gaining promotion in that season will have to pay a FFP tax levy which if these regulations were in place the season we were promoted where we recorded a £31m loss would result in a FFP Tax of £14m.

With £23m in parachute payments next season hopefully our club will not fall foul of these regulations but if we did and the loss is more than £3m but less than £8m then the owners WILL be required to use equity in the club to cover these losses above £3m if further sanctions are to be avoided. If we were in that position and the owners failed to cover the losses by equity conversion then a transfer ban WILL be imposed until suchtime that the club can demonstrate that losses are "acceptable" under the FFP scheme.

The club will be required to submit to the FL the current performance against the regulations in December and must be able to demonstrate that the club is complying with these regulations.

Much is being made of VT promise to convert debt to equity, and rightly so as it was a promise of his re-brand, but right now is it in the best interests of the club to use any or ALL available shares in a debt to equity conversion. Is it better that only a part of his debt is converted, as he recently suggested was possible, and leave enough room to complete any potential requirement to do so next season?

FFL for Football League clubs is here and next season will be our first experience of it and I hope our club is planning ahead for ALL outcomes, even if that means delaying any debt to equity conversion ahead of any potential exposure for our club next season.

Some interesting points , but a couple of fundamental misunderstandings of how FFP will impact on CCFC next season and thereafter.

Firstly , the Championship rules do not apply to us for next season as a club newly relegated from the Premier League. We have to comply (in our May 2014 accounts to be submitted by 1 December) with the PL FFP rules of losses of no more than £105m over 3 years - we do with a profit to be shown in the May 2014 accounts.

Secondly , the rules as currently drafted (they may change by interpretation as actual cases are considered by the authorities) say that the "top up" of allowed losses from £3m to £8m (or £2m to £7m season 2) can only be covered by NEW share capital subscription by owners , not by a conversion of debt which already exists into shares.

So any requirement to hold back an element of debt to equity conversion will not be needed until season 2014/15 , if at all.

Well it's all about opinions but I'm 100% sure that we will have to comply with the FFP Regulations for Championship clubs even as a relegated club. Of course I accept that as a newly relegated club our accounts for the year to May 2014 will reflect our season in the PL but as a Championship club we MUST be able to demonstrate to the Football League that we are complying, in FULL, with the requirements of FFP for next season. To allow a relegated club to operate outside of these regulations would be absolutely rediculous and I cannot see how anyone could seriously suggest that they wouldn't, receiving £23m in parachute payments is enough of a benefit without been given the freedom to do as we want next season. In suggesting that these regulations won't apply to us next season you are I'm sorry absolutely wrong.

In respect of NEW share capital the club is sitting on millions of new shares following a general meeting a few years back, shares that can be sold at the discretion of the board or in other words VT. With the further investment in stadium expansion and training ground that will give the board another opportunity to get a further share issue approved so already having NEW shares available and with the opportunity to issue more then to me it makes perfect sense to use these as and when required by the club.

And they may be required before the accounts for the year ending MAY 2015 are published and relegated club or not the Football League WILL be expecting the club to have complied with the FFP Regulations throughout next season.

1) I am not wrong about Championship FFP rules not applying to us next season. I am not sure where you get your information from on this(perhaps you could clarify) , but mine is from an involvement in their initial drafting ,a reading of the rules themselves and from detailed discussions on the topic at various football and financial seminars with other professionals who specialise in football finance.

2) The club can issue new shares from the existing "headroom" in its authorised share capital. This would be new shares for new cash. What I have said it the rules do not allow for a conversion of existing VT debt into shares (i.e. no cash comes into the club).

Keith

One thing that has been on my mind lately has been the likely affect of the FL Financial Fair Play Regulations that are now in place for Championship clubs, and more importantly how are they likely to affect our club next season.

In simple terms and if the same rules as last season apply next season then ALL Championship clubs will be required to operate with losses of no more than £3m, less exceptions like Youth Development, Community scheme and any promotion related bonuses. Clubs can go as far as £8m in losses as long as the owners are prepared to make the difference between £3-8m subject to an equity injection. Clubs that go above £10m will be subjected to a transfer ban which will remain in place until the club can demonstrate the club is on track to record "acceptable" losses in line with the FFP scheme i.e. maximum £3m loss.

Any club going above £10m loss and gaining promotion in that season will have to pay a FFP tax levy which if these regulations were in place the season we were promoted where we recorded a £31m loss would result in a FFP Tax of £14m.

With £23m in parachute payments next season hopefully our club will not fall foul of these regulations but if we did and the loss is more than £3m but less than £8m then the owners WILL be required to use equity in the club to cover these losses above £3m if further sanctions are to be avoided. If we were in that position and the owners failed to cover the losses by equity conversion then a transfer ban WILL be imposed until suchtime that the club can demonstrate that losses are "acceptable" under the FFP scheme.

The club will be required to submit to the FL the current performance against the regulations in December and must be able to demonstrate that the club is complying with these regulations.

Much is being made of VT promise to convert debt to equity, and rightly so as it was a promise of his re-brand, but right now is it in the best interests of the club to use any or ALL available shares in a debt to equity conversion. Is it better that only a part of his debt is converted, as he recently suggested was possible, and leave enough room to complete any potential requirement to do so next season?

FFL for Football League clubs is here and next season will be our first experience of it and I hope our club is planning ahead for ALL outcomes, even if that means delaying any debt to equity conversion ahead of any potential exposure for our club next season.

Some interesting points , but a couple of fundamental misunderstandings of how FFP will impact on CCFC next season and thereafter.

Firstly , the Championship rules do not apply to us for next season as a club newly relegated from the Premier League. We have to comply (in our May 2014 accounts to be submitted by 1 December) with the PL FFP rules of losses of no more than £105m over 3 years - we do with a profit to be shown in the May 2014 accounts.

Secondly , the rules as currently drafted (they may change by interpretation as actual cases are considered by the authorities) say that the "top up" of allowed losses from £3m to £8m (or £2m to £7m season 2) can only be covered by NEW share capital subscription by owners , not by a conversion of debt which already exists into shares.

So any requirement to hold back an element of debt to equity conversion will not be needed until season 2014/15 , if at all.

Well it's all about opinions but I'm 100% sure that we will have to comply with the FFP Regulations for Championship clubs even as a relegated club. Of course I accept that as a newly relegated club our accounts for the year to May 2014 will reflect our season in the PL but as a Championship club we MUST be able to demonstrate to the Football League that we are complying, in FULL, with the requirements of FFP for next season. To allow a relegated club to operate outside of these regulations would be absolutely rediculous and I cannot see how anyone could seriously suggest that they wouldn't, receiving £23m in parachute payments is enough of a benefit without been given the freedom to do as we want next season. In suggesting that these regulations won't apply to us next season you are I'm sorry absolutely wrong.

In respect of NEW share capital the club is sitting on millions of new shares following a general meeting a few years back, shares that can be sold at the discretion of the board or in other words VT. With the further investment in stadium expansion and training ground that will give the board another opportunity to get a further share issue approved so already having NEW shares available and with the opportunity to issue more then to me it makes perfect sense to use these as and when required by the club.

And they may be required before the accounts for the year ending MAY 2015 are published and relegated club or not the Football League WILL be expecting the club to have complied with the FFP Regulations throughout next season.

1) I am not wrong about Championship FFP rules not applying to us next season. I am not sure where you get your information from on this(perhaps you could clarify) , but mine is from an involvement in their initial drafting ,a reading of the rules themselves and from detailed discussions on the topic at various football and financial seminars with other professionals who specialise in football finance.

2) The club can issue new shares from the existing "headroom" in its authorised share capital. This would be new shares for new cash. What I have said it the rules do not allow for a conversion of existing VT debt into shares (i.e. no cash comes into the club).

Keith

So you are saying that a club relegated from the PL can operate at any loss with impunity as far as FFP Regulations are concerned.


Give me a break Keith.

One thing that has been on my mind lately has been the likely affect of the FL Financial Fair Play Regulations that are now in place for Championship clubs, and more importantly how are they likely to affect our club next season.

In simple terms and if the same rules as last season apply next season then ALL Championship clubs will be required to operate with losses of no more than £3m, less exceptions like Youth Development, Community scheme and any promotion related bonuses. Clubs can go as far as £8m in losses as long as the owners are prepared to make the difference between £3-8m subject to an equity injection. Clubs that go above £10m will be subjected to a transfer ban which will remain in place until the club can demonstrate the club is on track to record "acceptable" losses in line with the FFP scheme i.e. maximum £3m loss.

Any club going above £10m loss and gaining promotion in that season will have to pay a FFP tax levy which if these regulations were in place the season we were promoted where we recorded a £31m loss would result in a FFP Tax of £14m.

With £23m in parachute payments next season hopefully our club will not fall foul of these regulations but if we did and the loss is more than £3m but less than £8m then the owners WILL be required to use equity in the club to cover these losses above £3m if further sanctions are to be avoided. If we were in that position and the owners failed to cover the losses by equity conversion then a transfer ban WILL be imposed until suchtime that the club can demonstrate that losses are "acceptable" under the FFP scheme.

The club will be required to submit to the FL the current performance against the regulations in December and must be able to demonstrate that the club is complying with these regulations.

Much is being made of VT promise to convert debt to equity, and rightly so as it was a promise of his re-brand, but right now is it in the best interests of the club to use any or ALL available shares in a debt to equity conversion. Is it better that only a part of his debt is converted, as he recently suggested was possible, and leave enough room to complete any potential requirement to do so next season?

FFL for Football League clubs is here and next season will be our first experience of it and I hope our club is planning ahead for ALL outcomes, even if that means delaying any debt to equity conversion ahead of any potential exposure for our club next season.

Some interesting points , but a couple of fundamental misunderstandings of how FFP will impact on CCFC next season and thereafter.

Firstly , the Championship rules do not apply to us for next season as a club newly relegated from the Premier League. We have to comply (in our May 2014 accounts to be submitted by 1 December) with the PL FFP rules of losses of no more than £105m over 3 years - we do with a profit to be shown in the May 2014 accounts.

Secondly , the rules as currently drafted (they may change by interpretation as actual cases are considered by the authorities) say that the "top up" of allowed losses from £3m to £8m (or £2m to £7m season 2) can only be covered by NEW share capital subscription by owners , not by a conversion of debt which already exists into shares.

So any requirement to hold back an element of debt to equity conversion will not be needed until season 2014/15 , if at all.

Well it's all about opinions but I'm 100% sure that we will have to comply with the FFP Regulations for Championship clubs even as a relegated club. Of course I accept that as a newly relegated club our accounts for the year to May 2014 will reflect our season in the PL but as a Championship club we MUST be able to demonstrate to the Football League that we are complying, in FULL, with the requirements of FFP for next season. To allow a relegated club to operate outside of these regulations would be absolutely rediculous and I cannot see how anyone could seriously suggest that they wouldn't, receiving £23m in parachute payments is enough of a benefit without been given the freedom to do as we want next season. In suggesting that these regulations won't apply to us next season you are I'm sorry absolutely wrong.

In respect of NEW share capital the club is sitting on millions of new shares following a general meeting a few years back, shares that can be sold at the discretion of the board or in other words VT. With the further investment in stadium expansion and training ground that will give the board another opportunity to get a further share issue approved so already having NEW shares available and with the opportunity to issue more then to me it makes perfect sense to use these as and when required by the club.

And they may be required before the accounts for the year ending MAY 2015 are published and relegated club or not the Football League WILL be expecting the club to have complied with the FFP Regulations throughout next season.

1) I am not wrong about Championship FFP rules not applying to us next season. I am not sure where you get your information from on this(perhaps you could clarify) , but mine is from an involvement in their initial drafting ,a reading of the rules themselves and from detailed discussions on the topic at various football and financial seminars with other professionals who specialise in football finance.

2) The club can issue new shares from the existing "headroom" in its authorised share capital. This would be new shares for new cash. What I have said it the rules do not allow for a conversion of existing VT debt into shares (i.e. no cash comes into the club).

Keith

So you are saying that a club relegated from the PL can operate at any loss with impunity as far as FFP Regulations are concerned.


Give me a break Keith.

I didn`t say it could act with impunity. I said a club relegated to the Championship is not subject to Championship FFP Rules in its first season following relegation. This is because the accounts it has to submit in respect of its latest financial year are in respect of the period in which it operated as a Premier League club and , as such , it will be subject to Premier League FFP Rules for that year. CCFC Holdings will be compliant with those rules for 2013/14. That`s what it says in the rules. Why do you think differently?

Any comment on the new share issue point and the distinction between new shares for new cash and a conversion of existing debt to equity?

One thing that has been on my mind lately has been the likely affect of the FL Financial Fair Play Regulations that are now in place for Championship clubs, and more importantly how are they likely to affect our club next season.

In simple terms and if the same rules as last season apply next season then ALL Championship clubs will be required to operate with losses of no more than £3m, less exceptions like Youth Development, Community scheme and any promotion related bonuses. Clubs can go as far as £8m in losses as long as the owners are prepared to make the difference between £3-8m subject to an equity injection. Clubs that go above £10m will be subjected to a transfer ban which will remain in place until the club can demonstrate the club is on track to record "acceptable" losses in line with the FFP scheme i.e. maximum £3m loss.

Any club going above £10m loss and gaining promotion in that season will have to pay a FFP tax levy which if these regulations were in place the season we were promoted where we recorded a £31m loss would result in a FFP Tax of £14m.

With £23m in parachute payments next season hopefully our club will not fall foul of these regulations but if we did and the loss is more than £3m but less than £8m then the owners WILL be required to use equity in the club to cover these losses above £3m if further sanctions are to be avoided. If we were in that position and the owners failed to cover the losses by equity conversion then a transfer ban WILL be imposed until suchtime that the club can demonstrate that losses are "acceptable" under the FFP scheme.

The club will be required to submit to the FL the current performance against the regulations in December and must be able to demonstrate that the club is complying with these regulations.

Much is being made of VT promise to convert debt to equity, and rightly so as it was a promise of his re-brand, but right now is it in the best interests of the club to use any or ALL available shares in a debt to equity conversion. Is it better that only a part of his debt is converted, as he recently suggested was possible, and leave enough room to complete any potential requirement to do so next season?

FFL for Football League clubs is here and next season will be our first experience of it and I hope our club is planning ahead for ALL outcomes, even if that means delaying any debt to equity conversion ahead of any potential exposure for our club next season.

Some interesting points , but a couple of fundamental misunderstandings of how FFP will impact on CCFC next season and thereafter.

Firstly , the Championship rules do not apply to us for next season as a club newly relegated from the Premier League. We have to comply (in our May 2014 accounts to be submitted by 1 December) with the PL FFP rules of losses of no more than £105m over 3 years - we do with a profit to be shown in the May 2014 accounts.

Secondly , the rules as currently drafted (they may change by interpretation as actual cases are considered by the authorities) say that the "top up" of allowed losses from £3m to £8m (or £2m to £7m season 2) can only be covered by NEW share capital subscription by owners , not by a conversion of debt which already exists into shares.

So any requirement to hold back an element of debt to equity conversion will not be needed until season 2014/15 , if at all.

Well it's all about opinions but I'm 100% sure that we will have to comply with the FFP Regulations for Championship clubs even as a relegated club. Of course I accept that as a newly relegated club our accounts for the year to May 2014 will reflect our season in the PL but as a Championship club we MUST be able to demonstrate to the Football League that we are complying, in FULL, with the requirements of FFP for next season. To allow a relegated club to operate outside of these regulations would be absolutely rediculous and I cannot see how anyone could seriously suggest that they wouldn't, receiving £23m in parachute payments is enough of a benefit without been given the freedom to do as we want next season. In suggesting that these regulations won't apply to us next season you are I'm sorry absolutely wrong.

In respect of NEW share capital the club is sitting on millions of new shares following a general meeting a few years back, shares that can be sold at the discretion of the board or in other words VT. With the further investment in stadium expansion and training ground that will give the board another opportunity to get a further share issue approved so already having NEW shares available and with the opportunity to issue more then to me it makes perfect sense to use these as and when required by the club.

And they may be required before the accounts for the year ending MAY 2015 are published and relegated club or not the Football League WILL be expecting the club to have complied with the FFP Regulations throughout next season.

1) I am not wrong about Championship FFP rules not applying to us next season. I am not sure where you get your information from on this(perhaps you could clarify) , but mine is from an involvement in their initial drafting ,a reading of the rules themselves and from detailed discussions on the topic at various football and financial seminars with other professionals who specialise in football finance.

2) The club can issue new shares from the existing "headroom" in its authorised share capital. This would be new shares for new cash. What I have said it the rules do not allow for a conversion of existing VT debt into shares (i.e. no cash comes into the club).

Keith

So you are saying that a club relegated from the PL can operate at any loss with impunity as far as FFP Regulations are concerned.


Give me a break Keith.

I didn`t say it could act with impunity. I said a club relegated to the Championship is not subject to Championship FFP Rules in its first season following relegation. This is because the accounts it has to submit in respect of its latest financial year are in respect of the period in which it operated as a Premier League club and , as such , it will be subject to Premier League FFP Rules for that year. CCFC Holdings will be compliant with those rules for 2013/14. That`s what it says in the rules. Why do you think differently?

Any comment on the new share issue point and the distinction between new shares for new cash and a conversion of existing debt to equity?

Well to use your own words "I'm not wrong about Championship FFP rules not applying to us next season". If they don't then the club can do whatever they want without facing the prospect of sanction. That's means the club can act with impunity doesn't it?

One thing that has been on my mind lately has been the likely affect of the FL Financial Fair Play Regulations that are now in place for Championship clubs, and more importantly how are they likely to affect our club next season.

In simple terms and if the same rules as last season apply next season then ALL Championship clubs will be required to operate with losses of no more than £3m, less exceptions like Youth Development, Community scheme and any promotion related bonuses. Clubs can go as far as £8m in losses as long as the owners are prepared to make the difference between £3-8m subject to an equity injection. Clubs that go above £10m will be subjected to a transfer ban which will remain in place until the club can demonstrate the club is on track to record "acceptable" losses in line with the FFP scheme i.e. maximum £3m loss.

Any club going above £10m loss and gaining promotion in that season will have to pay a FFP tax levy which if these regulations were in place the season we were promoted where we recorded a £31m loss would result in a FFP Tax of £14m.

With £23m in parachute payments next season hopefully our club will not fall foul of these regulations but if we did and the loss is more than £3m but less than £8m then the owners WILL be required to use equity in the club to cover these losses above £3m if further sanctions are to be avoided. If we were in that position and the owners failed to cover the losses by equity conversion then a transfer ban WILL be imposed until suchtime that the club can demonstrate that losses are "acceptable" under the FFP scheme.

The club will be required to submit to the FL the current performance against the regulations in December and must be able to demonstrate that the club is complying with these regulations.

Much is being made of VT promise to convert debt to equity, and rightly so as it was a promise of his re-brand, but right now is it in the best interests of the club to use any or ALL available shares in a debt to equity conversion. Is it better that only a part of his debt is converted, as he recently suggested was possible, and leave enough room to complete any potential requirement to do so next season?

FFL for Football League clubs is here and next season will be our first experience of it and I hope our club is planning ahead for ALL outcomes, even if that means delaying any debt to equity conversion ahead of any potential exposure for our club next season.

Some interesting points , but a couple of fundamental misunderstandings of how FFP will impact on CCFC next season and thereafter.

Firstly , the Championship rules do not apply to us for next season as a club newly relegated from the Premier League. We have to comply (in our May 2014 accounts to be submitted by 1 December) with the PL FFP rules of losses of no more than £105m over 3 years - we do with a profit to be shown in the May 2014 accounts.

Secondly , the rules as currently drafted (they may change by interpretation as actual cases are considered by the authorities) say that the "top up" of allowed losses from £3m to £8m (or £2m to £7m season 2) can only be covered by NEW share capital subscription by owners , not by a conversion of debt which already exists into shares.

So any requirement to hold back an element of debt to equity conversion will not be needed until season 2014/15 , if at all.

Well it's all about opinions but I'm 100% sure that we will have to comply with the FFP Regulations for Championship clubs even as a relegated club. Of course I accept that as a newly relegated club our accounts for the year to May 2014 will reflect our season in the PL but as a Championship club we MUST be able to demonstrate to the Football League that we are complying, in FULL, with the requirements of FFP for next season. To allow a relegated club to operate outside of these regulations would be absolutely rediculous and I cannot see how anyone could seriously suggest that they wouldn't, receiving £23m in parachute payments is enough of a benefit without been given the freedom to do as we want next season. In suggesting that these regulations won't apply to us next season you are I'm sorry absolutely wrong.

In respect of NEW share capital the club is sitting on millions of new shares following a general meeting a few years back, shares that can be sold at the discretion of the board or in other words VT. With the further investment in stadium expansion and training ground that will give the board another opportunity to get a further share issue approved so already having NEW shares available and with the opportunity to issue more then to me it makes perfect sense to use these as and when required by the club.

And they may be required before the accounts for the year ending MAY 2015 are published and relegated club or not the Football League WILL be expecting the club to have complied with the FFP Regulations throughout next season.

1) I am not wrong about Championship FFP rules not applying to us next season. I am not sure where you get your information from on this(perhaps you could clarify) , but mine is from an involvement in their initial drafting ,a reading of the rules themselves and from detailed discussions on the topic at various football and financial seminars with other professionals who specialise in football finance.

2) The club can issue new shares from the existing "headroom" in its authorised share capital. This would be new shares for new cash. What I have said it the rules do not allow for a conversion of existing VT debt into shares (i.e. no cash comes into the club).

Keith

So you are saying that a club relegated from the PL can operate at any loss with impunity as far as FFP Regulations are concerned.


Give me a break Keith.

I didn`t say it could act with impunity. I said a club relegated to the Championship is not subject to Championship FFP Rules in its first season following relegation. This is because the accounts it has to submit in respect of its latest financial year are in respect of the period in which it operated as a Premier League club and , as such , it will be subject to Premier League FFP Rules for that year. CCFC Holdings will be compliant with those rules for 2013/14. That`s what it says in the rules. Why do you think differently?

Any comment on the new share issue point and the distinction between new shares for new cash and a conversion of existing debt to equity?

Well to use your own words "I'm not wrong about Championship FFP rules not applying to us next season". If they don't then the club can do whatever they want without facing the prospect of sanction. That's means the club can act with impunity doesn't it?

I read the rules as we would be punished for any wrong doing last year by the premier league, but any wrong doing this year comes under the jurisdiction of the Football league

One thing that has been on my mind lately has been the likely affect of the FL Financial Fair Play Regulations that are now in place for Championship clubs, and more importantly how are they likely to affect our club next season.

In simple terms and if the same rules as last season apply next season then ALL Championship clubs will be required to operate with losses of no more than £3m, less exceptions like Youth Development, Community scheme and any promotion related bonuses. Clubs can go as far as £8m in losses as long as the owners are prepared to make the difference between £3-8m subject to an equity injection. Clubs that go above £10m will be subjected to a transfer ban which will remain in place until the club can demonstrate the club is on track to record "acceptable" losses in line with the FFP scheme i.e. maximum £3m loss.

Any club going above £10m loss and gaining promotion in that season will have to pay a FFP tax levy which if these regulations were in place the season we were promoted where we recorded a £31m loss would result in a FFP Tax of £14m.

With £23m in parachute payments next season hopefully our club will not fall foul of these regulations but if we did and the loss is more than £3m but less than £8m then the owners WILL be required to use equity in the club to cover these losses above £3m if further sanctions are to be avoided. If we were in that position and the owners failed to cover the losses by equity conversion then a transfer ban WILL be imposed until suchtime that the club can demonstrate that losses are "acceptable" under the FFP scheme.

The club will be required to submit to the FL the current performance against the regulations in December and must be able to demonstrate that the club is complying with these regulations.

Much is being made of VT promise to convert debt to equity, and rightly so as it was a promise of his re-brand, but right now is it in the best interests of the club to use any or ALL available shares in a debt to equity conversion. Is it better that only a part of his debt is converted, as he recently suggested was possible, and leave enough room to complete any potential requirement to do so next season?

FFL for Football League clubs is here and next season will be our first experience of it and I hope our club is planning ahead for ALL outcomes, even if that means delaying any debt to equity conversion ahead of any potential exposure for our club next season.

Some interesting points , but a couple of fundamental misunderstandings of how FFP will impact on CCFC next season and thereafter.

Firstly , the Championship rules do not apply to us for next season as a club newly relegated from the Premier League. We have to comply (in our May 2014 accounts to be submitted by 1 December) with the PL FFP rules of losses of no more than £105m over 3 years - we do with a profit to be shown in the May 2014 accounts.

Secondly , the rules as currently drafted (they may change by interpretation as actual cases are considered by the authorities) say that the "top up" of allowed losses from £3m to £8m (or £2m to £7m season 2) can only be covered by NEW share capital subscription by owners , not by a conversion of debt which already exists into shares.

So any requirement to hold back an element of debt to equity conversion will not be needed until season 2014/15 , if at all.

Well it's all about opinions but I'm 100% sure that we will have to comply with the FFP Regulations for Championship clubs even as a relegated club. Of course I accept that as a newly relegated club our accounts for the year to May 2014 will reflect our season in the PL but as a Championship club we MUST be able to demonstrate to the Football League that we are complying, in FULL, with the requirements of FFP for next season. To allow a relegated club to operate outside of these regulations would be absolutely rediculous and I cannot see how anyone could seriously suggest that they wouldn't, receiving £23m in parachute payments is enough of a benefit without been given the freedom to do as we want next season. In suggesting that these regulations won't apply to us next season you are I'm sorry absolutely wrong.

In respect of NEW share capital the club is sitting on millions of new shares following a general meeting a few years back, shares that can be sold at the discretion of the board or in other words VT. With the further investment in stadium expansion and training ground that will give the board another opportunity to get a further share issue approved so already having NEW shares available and with the opportunity to issue more then to me it makes perfect sense to use these as and when required by the club.

And they may be required before the accounts for the year ending MAY 2015 are published and relegated club or not the Football League WILL be expecting the club to have complied with the FFP Regulations throughout next season.

1) I am not wrong about Championship FFP rules not applying to us next season. I am not sure where you get your information from on this(perhaps you could clarify) , but mine is from an involvement in their initial drafting ,a reading of the rules themselves and from detailed discussions on the topic at various football and financial seminars with other professionals who specialise in football finance.

2) The club can issue new shares from the existing "headroom" in its authorised share capital. This would be new shares for new cash. What I have said it the rules do not allow for a conversion of existing VT debt into shares (i.e. no cash comes into the club).

Keith

So you are saying that a club relegated from the PL can operate at any loss with impunity as far as FFP Regulations are concerned.


Give me a break Keith.

I didn`t say it could act with impunity. I said a club relegated to the Championship is not subject to Championship FFP Rules in its first season following relegation. This is because the accounts it has to submit in respect of its latest financial year are in respect of the period in which it operated as a Premier League club and , as such , it will be subject to Premier League FFP Rules for that year. CCFC Holdings will be compliant with those rules for 2013/14. That`s what it says in the rules. Why do you think differently?

Any comment on the new share issue point and the distinction between new shares for new cash and a conversion of existing debt to equity?

Well to use your own words "I'm not wrong about Championship FFP rules not applying to us next season". If they don't then the club can do whatever they want without facing the prospect of sanction. That's means the club can act with impunity doesn't it?

I read the rules as we would be punished for any wrong doing last year by the premier league, but any wrong doing this year comes under the jurisdiction of the Football league

My understanding is that we must still submit our accounts for last season to the FL and if we have exceeded the stipulated thresholds we could face sanction. Keith has suggested that won't be the case, which is good, but my point has always been that we must operate within the stipulated limits for next season or face sanctions. One our which could be a transfer ban from January 2016.

One thing that has been on my mind lately has been the likely affect of the FL Financial Fair Play Regulations that are now in place for Championship clubs, and more importantly how are they likely to affect our club next season.

In simple terms and if the same rules as last season apply next season then ALL Championship clubs will be required to operate with losses of no more than £3m, less exceptions like Youth Development, Community scheme and any promotion related bonuses. Clubs can go as far as £8m in losses as long as the owners are prepared to make the difference between £3-8m subject to an equity injection. Clubs that go above £10m will be subjected to a transfer ban which will remain in place until the club can demonstrate the club is on track to record "acceptable" losses in line with the FFP scheme i.e. maximum £3m loss.

Any club going above £10m loss and gaining promotion in that season will have to pay a FFP tax levy which if these regulations were in place the season we were promoted where we recorded a £31m loss would result in a FFP Tax of £14m.

With £23m in parachute payments next season hopefully our club will not fall foul of these regulations but if we did and the loss is more than £3m but less than £8m then the owners WILL be required to use equity in the club to cover these losses above £3m if further sanctions are to be avoided. If we were in that position and the owners failed to cover the losses by equity conversion then a transfer ban WILL be imposed until suchtime that the club can demonstrate that losses are "acceptable" under the FFP scheme.

The club will be required to submit to the FL the current performance against the regulations in December and must be able to demonstrate that the club is complying with these regulations.

Much is being made of VT promise to convert debt to equity, and rightly so as it was a promise of his re-brand, but right now is it in the best interests of the club to use any or ALL available shares in a debt to equity conversion. Is it better that only a part of his debt is converted, as he recently suggested was possible, and leave enough room to complete any potential requirement to do so next season?

FFL for Football League clubs is here and next season will be our first experience of it and I hope our club is planning ahead for ALL outcomes, even if that means delaying any debt to equity conversion ahead of any potential exposure for our club next season.

Some interesting points , but a couple of fundamental misunderstandings of how FFP will impact on CCFC next season and thereafter.

Firstly , the Championship rules do not apply to us for next season as a club newly relegated from the Premier League. We have to comply (in our May 2014 accounts to be submitted by 1 December) with the PL FFP rules of losses of no more than £105m over 3 years - we do with a profit to be shown in the May 2014 accounts.

Secondly , the rules as currently drafted (they may change by interpretation as actual cases are considered by the authorities) say that the "top up" of allowed losses from £3m to £8m (or £2m to £7m season 2) can only be covered by NEW share capital subscription by owners , not by a conversion of debt which already exists into shares.

So any requirement to hold back an element of debt to equity conversion will not be needed until season 2014/15 , if at all.

Well it's all about opinions but I'm 100% sure that we will have to comply with the FFP Regulations for Championship clubs even as a relegated club. Of course I accept that as a newly relegated club our accounts for the year to May 2014 will reflect our season in the PL but as a Championship club we MUST be able to demonstrate to the Football League that we are complying, in FULL, with the requirements of FFP for next season. To allow a relegated club to operate outside of these regulations would be absolutely rediculous and I cannot see how anyone could seriously suggest that they wouldn't, receiving £23m in parachute payments is enough of a benefit without been given the freedom to do as we want next season. In suggesting that these regulations won't apply to us next season you are I'm sorry absolutely wrong.

In respect of NEW share capital the club is sitting on millions of new shares following a general meeting a few years back, shares that can be sold at the discretion of the board or in other words VT. With the further investment in stadium expansion and training ground that will give the board another opportunity to get a further share issue approved so already having NEW shares available and with the opportunity to issue more then to me it makes perfect sense to use these as and when required by the club.

And they may be required before the accounts for the year ending MAY 2015 are published and relegated club or not the Football League WILL be expecting the club to have complied with the FFP Regulations throughout next season.

1) I am not wrong about Championship FFP rules not applying to us next season. I am not sure where you get your information from on this(perhaps you could clarify) , but mine is from an involvement in their initial drafting ,a reading of the rules themselves and from detailed discussions on the topic at various football and financial seminars with other professionals who specialise in football finance.

2) The club can issue new shares from the existing "headroom" in its authorised share capital. This would be new shares for new cash. What I have said it the rules do not allow for a conversion of existing VT debt into shares (i.e. no cash comes into the club).

Keith

So you are saying that a club relegated from the PL can operate at any loss with impunity as far as FFP Regulations are concerned.


Give me a break Keith.

I didn`t say it could act with impunity. I said a club relegated to the Championship is not subject to Championship FFP Rules in its first season following relegation. This is because the accounts it has to submit in respect of its latest financial year are in respect of the period in which it operated as a Premier League club and , as such , it will be subject to Premier League FFP Rules for that year. CCFC Holdings will be compliant with those rules for 2013/14. That`s what it says in the rules. Why do you think differently?

Any comment on the new share issue point and the distinction between new shares for new cash and a conversion of existing debt to equity?

Well to use your own words "I'm not wrong about Championship FFP rules not applying to us next season". If they don't then the club can do whatever they want without facing the prospect of sanction. That's means the club can act with impunity doesn't it?

I read the rules as we would be punished for any wrong doing last year by the premier league, but any wrong doing this year comes under the jurisdiction of the Football league

My understanding is that we must still submit our accounts for last season to the FL and if we have exceeded the stipulated thresholds we could face sanction. Keith has suggested that won't be the case, which is good, but my point has always been that we must operate within the stipulated limits for next season or face sanctions. One our which could be a transfer ban from January 2016.

This is what FFP rules say


Note: The newly relegated clubs must comply with the FFP rules in full. During their first December in the Championship, a newly relegated club does not have to submit their accounts for the previous season (i.e. the accounts relating to the season when they were in the Premier League). However QPR, Reading and Wigan will need to submit their accounts for the 2013/14 season to the Football League (and will be hit with a sanction if their 2013/14 accounts show that losses exceeded the permitted thresholds).

My understanding is that we must still submit our accounts for last season to the FL and if we have exceeded the stipulated thresholds we could face sanction. Keith has suggested that won't be the case, which is good, but my point has always been that we must operate within the stipulated limits for next season or face sanctions. One our which could be a transfer ban from January 2016.

This is what FFP rules say


Note: The newly relegated clubs must comply with the FFP rules in full. During their first December in the Championship, a newly relegated club does not have to submit their accounts for the previous season (i.e. the accounts relating to the season when they were in the Premier League). However QPR, Reading and Wigan will need to submit their accounts for the 2013/14 season to the Football League (and will be hit with a sanction if their 2013/14 accounts show that losses exceeded the permitted thresholds).

Thanks for that as it does clear up my assertion that the club MUST comply in FULL with the requirements of FFP. That is the BIGGEST impact of all in my opinion because the season we won the Championship we posted a loss of £30m or something like that. This time around we simply cannot do that and whilst I know we will get £23m in parachute payments where will we be if we cannot offload the big earners at the club.

This is where VT had a valid point regarding the £45k per week we were paying Cornelius because that was a rediculous deal and it does beg the question - How many others are on unrealistic wages ?

My understanding is that we must still submit our accounts for last season to the FL and if we have exceeded the stipulated thresholds we could face sanction. Keith has suggested that won't be the case, which is good, but my point has always been that we must operate within the stipulated limits for next season or face sanctions. One our which could be a transfer ban from January 2016.

This is what FFP rules say


Note: The newly relegated clubs must comply with the FFP rules in full. During their first December in the Championship, a newly relegated club does not have to submit their accounts for the previous season (i.e. the accounts relating to the season when they were in the Premier League). However QPR, Reading and Wigan will need to submit their accounts for the 2013/14 season to the Football League (and will be hit with a sanction if their 2013/14 accounts show that losses exceeded the permitted thresholds).

Thanks for that as it does clear up my assertion that the club MUST comply in FULL with the requirements of FFP. That is the BIGGEST impact of all in my opinion because the season we won the Championship we posted a loss of £30m or something like that. This time around we simply cannot do that and whilst I know we will get £23m in parachute payments where will we be if we cannot offload the big earners at the club.

This is where VT had a valid point regarding the £45k per week we were paying Cornelius because that was a rediculous deal and it does beg the question - How many others are on unrealistic wages ?

One other thing about the FFP is if we had signed say Caulker for £8m an a 4 year contract that means he is down as only £2m per year plus his wages for the duration of his contract not £8m in one year, if he was sold for £7 million this year then we would show a profit according to the rules of £1m, even though we actually make a loss on him, how they will work out the Cornelius deal I do not know,

My understanding is that we must still submit our accounts for last season to the FL and if we have exceeded the stipulated thresholds we could face sanction. Keith has suggested that won't be the case, which is good, but my point has always been that we must operate within the stipulated limits for next season or face sanctions. One our which could be a transfer ban from January 2016.

This is what FFP rules say


Note: The newly relegated clubs must comply with the FFP rules in full. During their first December in the Championship, a newly relegated club does not have to submit their accounts for the previous season (i.e. the accounts relating to the season when they were in the Premier League). However QPR, Reading and Wigan will need to submit their accounts for the 2013/14 season to the Football League (and will be hit with a sanction if their 2013/14 accounts show that losses exceeded the permitted thresholds).

Thanks for that as it does clear up my assertion that the club MUST comply in FULL with the requirements of FFP. That is the BIGGEST impact of all in my opinion because the season we won the Championship we posted a loss of £30m or something like that. This time around we simply cannot do that and whilst I know we will get £23m in parachute payments where will we be if we cannot offload the big earners at the club.

This is where VT had a valid point regarding the £45k per week we were paying Cornelius because that was a rediculous deal and it does beg the question - How many others are on unrealistic wages ?

One other thing about the FFP is if we had signed say Caulker for £8m an a 4 year contract that means he is down as only £2m per year plus his wages for the duration of his contract not £8m in one year, if he was sold for £7 million this year then we would show a profit according to the rules of £1m, even though we actually make a loss on him, how they will work out the Cornelius deal I do not know,

Leave that to the accountants.