' FOOTBALL THUGS TARGETTING '

English hooligans better get practicing their chair throwing, they seem to be quite good at that.

in all fairness the ruskies mostly attacked families and oaps.
was crap.

Really, not what I've heard/seen, that was the English hooligans excuses when they got done.

was indiscriminate mate. and they were really not up againt what id consider an English mob.
hatred of England doesnt turn truth into excuses.it remains the truth.
they went there for publicity and didnt care much how they got it.

Take your points, but the Rovers fan who was there seems to agree more with me. I don't think Wales will qualify anyway, but if we do there'll be a lot of people having to make a difficult decision.

rhonnda 1015 - I wouldn't say there was a proper English mob out there, not like say in France 98, Scotland 99 or Bratislava 2002. The programme didn't show it, but the Russians didn't get it all their own way. There was a 20 minute battle in the road just off of the main port where both sides were running backwards and forwards at each other. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it went on for ages but the French police were nowhere to be seen. It was the equivilant of a full blown riot being allowed to happen in St Mary's St. When the police did turn up they fired tear gas in to the English and let hundreds of Russians wander around the city at will. A couple of Russians got turned over by the Arabs there too.
On my way to the port, I saw a Russian mob of about 20 casuals. They looked the business although I did think Mastrum jackets were a bit much in the heat of Marseille! It wasn't this little lot who did the damage and I did hear that some Stoke fans came out on top in an exchange with them. The lot who did the damage (stamping on people's heads and indiscriminately attacking anyone English) were not 'casuals'. I believe they were there because Putin wanted them to be there. How else would a firm from somewhere like Orel be able to afford to travel?
Please don't think I am making excuses - the English aren't up to it now we have to admit. We have some fans who engage in anti-social behaviour (such as throwing oranges around when we played Spain in Seville or throwing bottles in Marseille in the nights before the game) thinking they are living up to their predecessors in the 80s and 90s. Don't tar us all as chair throwing idiots though. But we are not a match for trained, state sponsored armies like that.
As for nubbsy's comment about Wales being targeted due to the Lille truce, well I think the Russians won't be too fussed who they attack. A few of my mates in Lille saw one bloke on his own getting a kicking by 5 Russians in the early hours a few nights before the game. They are in their early 50s now and used to get involved when younger, but as I said in my previous post they have too much to lose and the game is over here, but they jumped in and helped him. They had cut heads when I saw them at the Iceland game. They laughed when they found out the bloke they saved was Welsh but said they would still had done so if they'd known.
I've been to the last 5 World Cups but am thinking long and hard about this one.
There are always scare stories. In France 98 I remember being on the TGV speeding towards the Argentina game when I read about 150 Barra Bravas with guns coming to avenge the Falklands. I nearly choked on my wotsits before I realised it was a load of bollocks. Having seen the Russians with my own eyes in France, I don't fancy facing even more of them on Russian soil I have to admit.
I went to Azerbaijan in 2004 and about 20 of us stopped in Moscow en route. Within an hour of getting to the first pub near Red Square, a local firm all in Stone Island appeared. We weren't even playing Russia. When we played them in 2007, they attacked anyone. There was a stunning Swedish girl who followed England (don't ask me why) and even she got a black eye. This latest lot are a few levels above even that though. You all heard that coward describe kicking someone's head like a penalty kick. He didn't exactly show much remorse. I wouldn't say this was 'football violence' - it is evil. (I thought 1000 of you chanting 'we are evil' on Sloper Road in 2000 was bad haha)
I hope everyone who does go over to Russia gets home safe.

Great post BRFC, cheers for that.

Yes Cheers BRFC for putting the record straight

Didn't Welsh fans get a tough time in Moscow 2003 cos the locals knew the soul crew were a top firm in the English leagues?

I just watched the documentary and thin the police will be well on top over there

Yes mate , Russians set fire to the hotel a few Cardiff were staying in. One of my mates who was always game said after that he's done with it. The mentality is different over there.

Didn't Welsh fans get a tough time in Moscow 2003 cos the locals knew the soul crew were a top firm in the English leagues?

I just watched the documentary and thin the police will be well on top over there

A few of my valley mates, Cardiff fans were battered in a pub by red square. About 400 Russians attacked 30 inside the pub. One came in with a list of names from the soul crew book. Someone said, yes there's a few in here lol. Hence the carnage. I missed that pub by minutes. Mate said, he never been so frightened in his life. After the fight, one came in and shook my mates hand and said thanks for the fight. Loads of Russians were arrested many months later.

Hearing the whining about hooliganism dished out by the Russians is quite frankly laughable.What have Engerr...land been doing for the last 40 years in Europe ? Or is there a breakout of amnesia. Anyone getting hurt is abhorrent as far as I am concerned.What we must remember Russia is a tough country where our moral compass is not recognized, merely laughed at.They have to be tough having lost 27 million souls between 1941-45 which won the war , a lot of Brits forget this,and subsequently brutalized by Stalin at the same time.Their capacity to absorb punishment and suffering has made them what they are a bunch of tough bastards.

Hearing the whining about hooliganism dished out by the Russians is quite frankly laughable.What have Engerr...land been doing for the last 40 years in Europe ? Or is there a breakout of amnesia. Anyone getting hurt is abhorrent as far as I am concerned.What we must remember Russia is a tough country where our moral compass is not recognized, merely laughed at.They have to be tough having lost 27 million souls between 1941-45 which won the war , a lot of Brits forget this,and subsequently brutalized by Stalin at the same time.Their capacity to absorb punishment and suffering has made them what they are a bunch of tough bastards.

I take your point Jimmy and given England's history I realise some people think 'you reap what you sow'.
What people forget are the people watching England now are not the same people who played up across Europe years ago.
We have cleaned up our act - of course with the sheer numbers, you will always get a few idiots.
We had an estimated 100,000 in Frankfurt for the World Cup in 2006 and there was minimal trouble. Just a few years before, if 100,000 Englishmen had gone somewhere there would have been widespread trouble.
Euro 2004 - again, thousands travelled with minimal trouble. I could give loads more examples.
At the same time England were causing trouble, Cardiff were one of the main firms in the UK. Does that mean Cardiff fans now should be targeted?
It's one thing being tough, and it's another setting out to f**k someone's life up by stamping on their head repeatedly.

Cheers rhondda 1015 and Forever Blue.
Forever Blue - you won't remember me but our paths briefly crossed in Toulouse before the England v Romania game in France 98. I was with two lads (Burnley and Swindon) who knew you and came across for a chat in the main square before the game.

For BRFC anyone who stamps on someone's head is a prick.Man to man have a go and if someone gets the better so what, you are mistaking cultures here, to the Russians the English were revered for commanding the streets.There are people on this forum who were at England games during tournaments.When confronted they looked like pussies flapping around and whining.It always pisses me off when you see a mob, many of whom could not fight their way out of a wet newspaper giving it large .The Russians are a different breed get over it and yes if they had been around in the eighties and nineties challenging Engerr..land we would have seen a different outcome.Many of these jokers would have shit themselves