Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:36 pm
wez1927 wrote:Magners wrote:How much damage would one nuclear warhead cause if it was dropped in the middle of Moscow.
Take s a 7 to 10 mile radius out so 220 would take most of russia out dont need 4000
Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:45 pm
wez1927 wrote:AfanBluebird wrote:wez1927 wrote:Steve Zodiak wrote:AfanBluebird wrote:dogfound wrote:cant believe someone is seriously asking how trident prevents a lone terrorist with a knife.
jeez . how does a copper on the isle of white stop a nutter in a car in London.? he doesnt so scrap the isle of white police too.
I think that has gone straight over your head!
"Corbyn a Threat to national security due to not supporting the Armed Forces and Trident"
Once again, I ask you or anyone, how does 215 Nuclear Warheads prevent Russia's 4490 (estimate) nuclear warheads from hitting us?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/31/mod-facing-1bn-a-year-funding-shortfall
It does'nt stop them from hitting us. It makes them think twice before using them though. That is why it is called a deterrent.
Exactly but corbyn wants to get rid of it ffs the guy us a clown ,open borders,no defence policy,links to terroist the guy is a threat the looney lefties are deluded to thonk otherwise
"Open Borders" - Tories have seen a year on Year rise since 2010 of immigration into the country, considering our borders have "never been open" due to us not being part of Schangen Agreement.
"No Defence Policy" - Tories have seen a year on year Cut to defence since 2010, now down to as low as 1.8%, compared to the 5.2% in 2010.
"Links To Terrorism" - Tories have had a constant link to Saudi Arabia that it sells arms to, that then sell onto ISIS and other terrorist organisations. Remember, it was Corbyn who voted against Bombing Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libia & Yemen... not May. Which then led to the rise of ISIS.
"Deterant" is one word that Trident is not. It's a known fact that our subs are currently out of action due to a machanical fault (was in the daily fail just 2 weeks ago). Russia do not care about us little englanders. Noticed how in this current dispute with North Korea, the U.K. has not been mentioned ONCE. We're totally irrelevant to the outside world.
So Labour are perfect corbyn is god and those torries are so bad labour didnt have an open border policy when in power?didnt sign away our sovereignty? Didnt start multiple wars ? Ffs you loonies dont half speak bollocks and turn a blind eye when it doesnt fit in with ypur agenda ffs
Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:46 pm
Magners wrote:wez1927 wrote:Magners wrote:How much damage would one nuclear warhead cause if it was dropped in the middle of Moscow.
Take s a 7 to 10 mile radius out so 220 would take most of russia out dont need 4000
That sounds like a much better deterrent than scrapping trident and preying Russia doesn't nuke you because you can't nuke them back.
Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:49 pm
AfanBluebird wrote:Magners wrote:wez1927 wrote:Magners wrote:How much damage would one nuclear warhead cause if it was dropped in the middle of Moscow.
Take s a 7 to 10 mile radius out so 220 would take most of russia out dont need 4000
That sounds like a much better deterrent than scrapping trident and preying Russia doesn't nuke you because you can't nuke them back.
Great though when we can only carry 16 at a time.
Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:57 pm
Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:02 pm
bluebird04 wrote:as a young voter, I am against Trident, call me naïve or whatever, but I feel you older generation have a mind-set of they want to nuke us, so we should have nukes". no nation I think really wants to use them, and which ever nation does use them, will destroyed by the rest of the world. to me all a nuke means is if "Russia" DID nuke us, all we could do before being killed is kill a few million innocent people in retaliation. just imagine if we stopped trident and invested that money into a british Space programme.
Corbyn isn't for everyone and that's exactly what this democracy election is for, you can vote someone else, and as a young voter I find it pathetic that "WEZ" called someone
"Your a lost cause,looney lefty if you cant see that corbyn is threat then your off your head" for believing in a politican, this is the exact same thing as when remainers called brexiters "racists". people might be voting for Corbyn for other issues,
Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:18 pm
AfanBluebird wrote:Magners wrote:wez1927 wrote:Magners wrote:How much damage would one nuclear warhead cause if it was dropped in the middle of Moscow.
Take s a 7 to 10 mile radius out so 220 would take most of russia out dont need 4000
That sounds like a much better deterrent than scrapping trident and preying Russia doesn't nuke you because you can't nuke them back.
Great though when we can only carry 16 at a time.
Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:23 pm
bluebird04 wrote:as a young voter, I am against Trident, call me naïve or whatever, but I feel you older generation have a mind-set of they want to nuke us, so we should have nukes". no nation I think really wants to use them, and which ever nation does use them, will destroyed by the rest of the world. to me all a nuke means is if "Russia" DID nuke us, all we could do before being killed is kill a few million innocent people in retaliation. just imagine if we stopped trident and invested that money into a british Space programme.
Corbyn isn't for everyone and that's exactly what this democracy election is for, you can vote someone else, and as a young voter I find it pathetic that "WEZ" called someone
"Your a lost cause,looney lefty if you cant see that corbyn is threat then your off your head" for believing in a politican, this is the exact same thing as when remainers called brexiters "racists". people might be voting for Corbyn for other issues,
Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:36 am
bluebird04 wrote:as a young voter, I am against Trident, call me naïve or whatever, but I feel you older generation have a mind-set of they want to nuke us, so we should have nukes". no nation I think really wants to use them, and which ever nation does use them, will destroyed by the rest of the world. to me all a nuke means is if "Russia" DID nuke us, all we could do before being killed is kill a few million innocent people in retaliation. just imagine if we stopped trident and invested that money into a british Space programme.
Corbyn isn't for everyone and that's exactly what this democracy election is for, you can vote someone else, and as a young voter I find it pathetic that "WEZ" called someone
"Your a lost cause,looney lefty if you cant see that corbyn is threat then your off your head" for believing in a politican, this is the exact same thing as when remainers called brexiters "racists". people might be voting for Corbyn for other issues,
Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:30 am
bluebird04 wrote:as a young voter, I am against Trident, call me naïve or whatever, but I feel you older generation have a mind-set of they want to nuke us, so we should have nukes". no nation I think really wants to use them, and which ever nation does use them, will destroyed by the rest of the world. to me all a nuke means is if "Russia" DID nuke us, all we could do before being killed is kill a few million innocent people in retaliation. just imagine if we stopped trident and invested that money into a british Space programme.
Corbyn isn't for everyone and that's exactly what this democracy election is for, you can vote someone else, and as a young voter I find it pathetic that "WEZ" called someone
"Your a lost cause,looney lefty if you cant see that corbyn is threat then your off your head" for believing in a politican, this is the exact same thing as when remainers called brexiters "racists". people might be voting for Corbyn for other issues,
Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:25 am
Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:33 am
bluebird04 wrote:as a young voter, I am against Trident, call me naïve or whatever, but I feel you older generation have a mind-set of they want to nuke us, so we should have nukes". no nation I think really wants to use them, and which ever nation does use them, will destroyed by the rest of the world. to me all a nuke means is if "Russia" DID nuke us, all we could do before being killed is kill a few million innocent people in retaliation. just imagine if we stopped trident and invested that money into a british Space programme.
Corbyn isn't for everyone and that's exactly what this democracy election is for, you can vote someone else, and as a young voter I find it pathetic that "WEZ" called someone
"Your a lost cause,looney lefty if you cant see that corbyn is threat then your off your head" for believing in a politican, this is the exact same thing as when remainers called brexiters "racists". people might be voting for Corbyn for other issues,
Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:42 am
thevoiceofreason wrote:Corbyn is the first politician in living memory who actually feels genuine and trustworthy. He then gets criticised for saying what he thinks on subjects like Trident because of his honesty and integrity. Would you lot rather he lied through his back teeth to get your votes (like the tories)??
There are more pressing concerns in this country than spending 40billion on renewing a weapon that in reality can never be used.
Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:54 am
dogfound wrote:thevoiceofreason wrote:Corbyn is the first politician in living memory who actually feels genuine and trustworthy. He then gets criticised for saying what he thinks on subjects like Trident because of his honesty and integrity. Would you lot rather he lied through his back teeth to get your votes (like the tories)??
There are more pressing concerns in this country than spending 40billion on renewing a weapon that in reality can never be used.
most people grow up. thinking all this perfect world idiological stuff is fine as a youngster and to a point as a lifetime backbencher with no chance of ever being more than that.it broadens debates {the reason he was in the leadership contest in the first place }. but we all change opinions as we learn more, and figure out there are often reasons for life not being that simple.
Corbyn seems to think that once he has said something he can then never ever change his mind .that is not integrity. or does it even mean he is being honest even with him self. it just makes him westminsters version of roath.
Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:02 am
Sneggyblubird wrote:bluebird04 wrote:as a young voter, I am against Trident, call me naïve or whatever, but I feel you older generation have a mind-set of they want to nuke us, so we should have nukes". no nation I think really wants to use them, and which ever nation does use them, will destroyed by the rest of the world. to me all a nuke means is if "Russia" DID nuke us, all we could do before being killed is kill a few million innocent people in retaliation. just imagine if we stopped trident and invested that money into a british Space programme.
Corbyn isn't for everyone and that's exactly what this democracy election is for, you can vote someone else, and as a young voter I find it pathetic that "WEZ" called someone
"Your a lost cause,looney lefty if you cant see that corbyn is threat then your off your head" for believing in a politican, this is the exact same thing as when remainers called brexiters "racists". people might be voting for Corbyn for other issues,
A well reasoned debate is not what you'll get on here.And you must remember that name calling is the standard rebuttal technique used by many when they can't counter your argument.The biggest threat from Russia at the moment is nuclear poison rather than nuclear missiles.The amount of 40yr old nuclear subs and warheads that are degrading to a dangerous state is more alarming than any russian missile pointed at Cardiff.Luckily the russians are giving many to the americans so they can recycle them in their power stations.The biggest threat from the russians towards us will be their hoolies in next years world cup.
Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:05 am
thevoiceofreason wrote:dogfound wrote:thevoiceofreason wrote:Corbyn is the first politician in living memory who actually feels genuine and trustworthy. He then gets criticised for saying what he thinks on subjects like Trident because of his honesty and integrity. Would you lot rather he lied through his back teeth to get your votes (like the tories)??
There are more pressing concerns in this country than spending 40billion on renewing a weapon that in reality can never be used.
most people grow up. thinking all this perfect world idiological stuff is fine as a youngster and to a point as a lifetime backbencher with no chance of ever being more than that.it broadens debates {the reason he was in the leadership contest in the first place }. but we all change opinions as we learn more, and figure out there are often reasons for life not being that simple.
Corbyn seems to think that once he has said something he can then never ever change his mind .that is not integrity. or does it even mean he is being honest even with him self. it just makes him westminsters version of roath.
Of course if he did changes his mind and came out and said that we should renew Trident the press would then vilify him and portray him as being untrustworthy for going back on his word. It's not in Rupert Murdoch (and friends') interests to have a true socialist anywhere near the reigns of power.
Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:10 am
thevoiceofreason wrote:dogfound wrote:thevoiceofreason wrote:Corbyn is the first politician in living memory who actually feels genuine and trustworthy. He then gets criticised for saying what he thinks on subjects like Trident because of his honesty and integrity. Would you lot rather he lied through his back teeth to get your votes (like the tories)??
There are more pressing concerns in this country than spending 40billion on renewing a weapon that in reality can never be used.
most people grow up. thinking all this perfect world idiological stuff is fine as a youngster and to a point as a lifetime backbencher with no chance of ever being more than that.it broadens debates {the reason he was in the leadership contest in the first place }. but we all change opinions as we learn more, and figure out there are often reasons for life not being that simple.
Corbyn seems to think that once he has said something he can then never ever change his mind .that is not integrity. or does it even mean he is being honest even with him self. it just makes him westminsters version of roath.
Of course if he did changes his mind and came out and said that we should renew Trident the press would then vilify him and portray him as being untrustworthy for going back on his word. It's not in Rupert Murdoch (and friends') interests to have a true socialist anywhere near the reigns of power.
Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:27 am
dogfound wrote:thevoiceofreason wrote:Corbyn is the first politician in living memory who actually feels genuine and trustworthy. He then gets criticised for saying what he thinks on subjects like Trident because of his honesty and integrity. Would you lot rather he lied through his back teeth to get your votes (like the tories)??
There are more pressing concerns in this country than spending 40billion on renewing a weapon that in reality can never be used.
most people grow up. thinking all this perfect world idiological stuff is fine as a youngster and to a point as a lifetime backbencher with no chance of ever being more than that.it broadens debates {the reason he was in the leadership contest in the first place }. but we all change opinions as we learn more, and figure out there are often reasons for life not being that simple.
Corbyn seems to think that once he has said something he can then never ever change his mind .that is not integrity. or does it even mean he is being honest even with him self. it just makes him westminsters version of roath.
Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:30 am
bluebird04 wrote:made me laugh, calling Corbyn a friend of Hamas and IRA. when the british government has been making money selling arms to Saudi and others who use them for more illegal purposes. everyone says Corbyn is a friend of the IRA because he smooth-talked them during the peace negotiations, im pretty young so no tooled up on the war in northern Ireland, but I'm sure we had to "smooth talk them" in order to achieve peace.
as for Hamas, im sure they are an organisation funded by Iran, which have seized power in Palestine who are being slaughtered by Israel, (again i am not clued up) but both sides are doing evil. If corbyn said he was pro-Israel, people would have issue.
and does anyone REALLY think us having nuclear weapons is what is really stopping someone from Nuking us ? remember America is the only nation to ever use Nuclear weapons (in WW2) (I believe the A-Bomb is considered a nuke). i remember reading something before which stated even if say "Country A" launched a nuclear weapon in modern times, there isn't anything we can do to stop it, as if we blew the nuke up mid air, radiation would be devastating.
Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:34 am
Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:40 am
Sneggyblubird wrote:dogfound wrote:thevoiceofreason wrote:Corbyn is the first politician in living memory who actually feels genuine and trustworthy. He then gets criticised for saying what he thinks on subjects like Trident because of his honesty and integrity. Would you lot rather he lied through his back teeth to get your votes (like the tories)??
There are more pressing concerns in this country than spending 40billion on renewing a weapon that in reality can never be used.
most people grow up. thinking all this perfect world idiological stuff is fine as a youngster and to a point as a lifetime backbencher with no chance of ever being more than that.it broadens debates {the reason he was in the leadership contest in the first place }. but we all change opinions as we learn more, and figure out there are often reasons for life not being that simple.
Corbyn seems to think that once he has said something he can then never ever change his mind .that is not integrity. or does it even mean he is being honest even with him self. it just makes him westminsters version of roath.
Sorry,but i think your being a bit blase and patronising.Politicians by default are dogmatic and their rigid views are often what carries them and defines them in political life.Thats why its so difficult to get a yes or no answer to any question posed to them especially if they haven't had the chance to gauge public opinion first.Corbyn is not my idea of a political leader but the very reason he was elected as leader of the labour party was because of the overwhelming support he had from the rank and file grass roots support.This was underlined by the laughable attempt to oust him by another vote.His is,without doubt a dangerous figure for the Tories and its little wonder that they chose to argue and campaign on personallity rather than policy as I think trying to discredit him shows weakness of belief in their own policies.I think the man does have integrity because he believes in what he says without having to consult a PR machine first.If he can shift the agenda to include the NHS,employment,social care etc then he may have a chance as no-one but an idiot can argue that austerity as a policy has been a massive failure as we are more in debt now than when the banks crashed.Christ even feckin Trump knows this.The Tories want to keep this about Brexit but I'm not sure they can.
Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:52 am
Sneggyblubird wrote:dogfound wrote:thevoiceofreason wrote:Corbyn is the first politician in living memory who actually feels genuine and trustworthy. He then gets criticised for saying what he thinks on subjects like Trident because of his honesty and integrity. Would you lot rather he lied through his back teeth to get your votes (like the tories)??
There are more pressing concerns in this country than spending 40billion on renewing a weapon that in reality can never be used.
most people grow up. thinking all this perfect world idiological stuff is fine as a youngster and to a point as a lifetime backbencher with no chance of ever being more than that.it broadens debates {the reason he was in the leadership contest in the first place }. but we all change opinions as we learn more, and figure out there are often reasons for life not being that simple.
Corbyn seems to think that once he has said something he can then never ever change his mind .that is not integrity. or does it even mean he is being honest even with him self. it just makes him westminsters version of roath.
Sorry,but i think your being a bit blase and patronising.Politicians by default are dogmatic and their rigid views are often what carries them and defines them in political life.Thats why its so difficult to get a yes or no answer to any question posed to them especially if they haven't had the chance to gauge public opinion first.Corbyn is not my idea of a political leader but the very reason he was elected as leader of the labour party was because of the overwhelming support he had from the rank and file grass roots support.This was underlined by the laughable attempt to oust him by another vote.His is,without doubt a dangerous figure for the Tories and its little wonder that they chose to argue and campaign on personallity rather than policy as I think trying to discredit him shows weakness of belief in their own policies.I think the man does have integrity because he believes in what he says without having to consult a PR machine first.If he can shift the agenda to include the NHS,employment,social care etc then he may have a chance as no-one but an idiot can argue that austerity as a policy has been a massive failure as we are more in debt now than when the banks crashed.Christ even feckin Trump knows this.The Tories want to keep this about Brexit but I'm not sure they can.
Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:52 am
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:11 am
dogfound wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:dogfound wrote:thevoiceofreason wrote:Corbyn is the first politician in living memory who actually feels genuine and trustworthy. He then gets criticised for saying what he thinks on subjects like Trident because of his honesty and integrity. Would you lot rather he lied through his back teeth to get your votes (like the tories)??
There are more pressing concerns in this country than spending 40billion on renewing a weapon that in reality can never be used.
most people grow up. thinking all this perfect world idiological stuff is fine as a youngster and to a point as a lifetime backbencher with no chance of ever being more than that.it broadens debates {the reason he was in the leadership contest in the first place }. but we all change opinions as we learn more, and figure out there are often reasons for life not being that simple.
Corbyn seems to think that once he has said something he can then never ever change his mind .that is not integrity. or does it even mean he is being honest even with him self. it just makes him westminsters version of roath.
Sorry,but i think your being a bit blase and patronising.Politicians by default are dogmatic and their rigid views are often what carries them and defines them in political life.Thats why its so difficult to get a yes or no answer to any question posed to them especially if they haven't had the chance to gauge public opinion first.Corbyn is not my idea of a political leader but the very reason he was elected as leader of the labour party was because of the overwhelming support he had from the rank and file grass roots support.This was underlined by the laughable attempt to oust him by another vote.His is,without doubt a dangerous figure for the Tories and its little wonder that they chose to argue and campaign on personallity rather than policy as I think trying to discredit him shows weakness of belief in their own policies.I think the man does have integrity because he believes in what he says without having to consult a PR machine first.If he can shift the agenda to include the NHS,employment,social care etc then he may have a chance as no-one but an idiot can argue that austerity as a policy has been a massive failure as we are more in debt now than when the banks crashed.Christ even feckin Trump knows this.The Tories want to keep this about Brexit but I'm not sure they can.
you believe he got voted in by rank and file LABOUR voters...lol..your as daft as he is.
why do you think there was this huge surge in membership. yes i know they said they had thrown the fake tory members out but it takes single figure brain cells to see how impossible that is when you have no idea what a person votes to start with.
he is the ideal labour candidate if you dont want labour. an extremist traitor.
Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:12 pm
Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:22 pm
AfanBluebird wrote:Having a "Nuclear Deterrent" doesn't essentially mean that we won't get attacked. It simply means we will attack those who attack us first.
To put it in simpler terms, 2 people stood in Petroleum, holding a match daring eachother to drop theirs first. Either way, both countries are going up in smoke.
Why can't the UK lead the way in Nuclear Disarmament? Why do we always have to act like Billy big ballocks. And by the way, while Nato states we must sound 2% ofor GDP, we've only sent 1.8%.
Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:44 pm
toryboy49 wrote:GrangeEndStar wrote:toryboy49 wrote:I tried to start a debate on here regarding Corbyns ability or lack of ability to defend our country,there can not be a more important duty of any Prime Minister than to defend his or her own people from our enemies whether those enemies be in the shape of another country or individual terrorist organisations and in my view Corbyn would be to much of a dangerous risk for our country to take,finally I would like to thank most of those on here in taking the time to respond to my posting
Its been an absolute pleasure. Now bore off.
It completely astounds me that you find the defence of your country a bore,I'm sure your father or grandfather did not find it boring when they fought for their country
Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:02 pm
Steve Zodiak wrote:AfanBluebird wrote:Having a "Nuclear Deterrent" doesn't essentially mean that we won't get attacked. It simply means we will attack those who attack us first.
To put it in simpler terms, 2 people stood in Petroleum, holding a match daring eachother to drop theirs first. Either way, both countries are going up in smoke.
Why can't the UK lead the way in Nuclear Disarmament? Why do we always have to act like Billy big ballocks. And by the way, while Nato states we must sound 2% ofor GDP, we've only sent 1.8%.
If you have two people soaked in petroleum, unless they are completely insane neither are likely to drop that match. As far as leading the way in scrapping these weapons are concerned, you have already said that Russia are not interested in little England.
Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:29 pm
AfanBluebird wrote:Steve Zodiak wrote:AfanBluebird wrote:Having a "Nuclear Deterrent" doesn't essentially mean that we won't get attacked. It simply means we will attack those who attack us first.
To put it in simpler terms, 2 people stood in Petroleum, holding a match daring eachother to drop theirs first. Either way, both countries are going up in smoke.
Why can't the UK lead the way in Nuclear Disarmament? Why do we always have to act like Billy big ballocks. And by the way, while Nato states we must sound 2% ofor GDP, we've only sent 1.8%.
If you have two people soaked in petroleum, unless they are completely insane neither are likely to drop that match. As far as leading the way in scrapping these weapons are concerned, you have already said that Russia are not interested in little England.
Exactly, so why not lead the way and get disarming our nuclear weapons?
As said, who would want to go and hold a match in the first place? Why is Corbyn being attacked for not wanting to drop that match.
Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:50 pm
dogfound wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:dogfound wrote:thevoiceofreason wrote:Corbyn is the first politician in living memory who actually feels genuine and trustworthy. He then gets criticised for saying what he thinks on subjects like Trident because of his honesty and integrity. Would you lot rather he lied through his back teeth to get your votes (like the tories)??
There are more pressing concerns in this country than spending 40billion on renewing a weapon that in reality can never be used.
most people grow up. thinking all this perfect world idiological stuff is fine as a youngster and to a point as a lifetime backbencher with no chance of ever being more than that.it broadens debates {the reason he was in the leadership contest in the first place }. but we all change opinions as we learn more, and figure out there are often reasons for life not being that simple.
Corbyn seems to think that once he has said something he can then never ever change his mind .that is not integrity. or does it even mean he is being honest even with him self. it just makes him westminsters version of roath.
Sorry,but i think your being a bit blase and patronising.Politicians by default are dogmatic and their rigid views are often what carries them and defines them in political life.Thats why its so difficult to get a yes or no answer to any question posed to them especially if they haven't had the chance to gauge public opinion first.Corbyn is not my idea of a political leader but the very reason he was elected as leader of the labour party was because of the overwhelming support he had from the rank and file grass roots support.This was underlined by the laughable attempt to oust him by another vote.His is,without doubt a dangerous figure for the Tories and its little wonder that they chose to argue and campaign on personallity rather than policy as I think trying to discredit him shows weakness of belief in their own policies.I think the man does have integrity because he believes in what he says without having to consult a PR machine first.If he can shift the agenda to include the NHS,employment,social care etc then he may have a chance as no-one but an idiot can argue that austerity as a policy has been a massive failure as we are more in debt now than when the banks crashed.Christ even feckin Trump knows this.The Tories want to keep this about Brexit but I'm not sure they can.
you believe he got voted in by rank and file LABOUR voters...lol..your as daft as he is.
why do you think there was this huge surge in membership. yes i know they said they had thrown the fake tory members out but it takes single figure brain cells to see how impossible that is when you have no idea what a person votes to start with.
he is the ideal labour candidate if you dont want labour. an extremist traitor.