Sat May 20, 2017 8:41 am
Merlin11 wrote:According to Laura Keunsberg the BBC's main bias political correspondent. 10 mILLION pensioners will lose their winter fuel payments. Plus the triple lock is being removed which guarantees the pension against high inflation increases. Also if your house is over 100k and you receive care at home. Your home will be sold for that care when you die. It is being called the DIMENTIA TAX.
The Tories have doubled the national debt in 7 years and we have nothing to show for it except financial hardship for many families and now they turn on the pensioners. Only Labour can stop this. Vote for the many NOT THE FEW.
Sat May 20, 2017 9:09 am
Jock wrote:Merlin11 wrote:According to Laura Keunsberg the BBC's main bias political correspondent. 10 mILLION pensioners will lose their winter fuel payments. Plus the triple lock is being removed which guarantees the pension against high inflation increases. Also if your house is over 100k and you receive care at home. Your home will be sold for that care when you die. It is being called the DIMENTIA TAX.
The Tories have doubled the national debt in 7 years and we have nothing to show for it except financial hardship for many families and now they turn on the pensioners. Only Labour can stop this. Vote for the many NOT THE FEW.
Pensions will increase in line with earning or inflation as opposed to rising by a minimum of 2.5%. Sorry to bring facts into the debate. May is a One Nation Conservative and she'll be getting my vote.
Sat May 20, 2017 9:41 am
Sneggyblubird wrote:Jock wrote:Merlin11 wrote:According to Laura Keunsberg the BBC's main bias political correspondent. 10 mILLION pensioners will lose their winter fuel payments. Plus the triple lock is being removed which guarantees the pension against high inflation increases. Also if your house is over 100k and you receive care at home. Your home will be sold for that care when you die. It is being called the DIMENTIA TAX.
The Tories have doubled the national debt in 7 years and we have nothing to show for it except financial hardship for many families and now they turn on the pensioners. Only Labour can stop this. Vote for the many NOT THE FEW.
Pensions will increase in line with earning or inflation as opposed to rising by a minimum of 2.5%. Sorry to bring facts into the debate. May is a One Nation Conservative and she'll be getting my vote.
You watch them change it again when wage settlements and/or inflation goes above 2.5%.The Tories can't suppress the economy forever as they are doing now.At the moment intrest rates are at a historical low and so are wage settlements are are approx 1% and by the Tory's own admmission not keeping up with inflation.Just some more facts as I know you like facts.
Sat May 20, 2017 4:06 pm
Jock wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:Jock wrote:Merlin11 wrote:According to Laura Keunsberg the BBC's main bias political correspondent. 10 mILLION pensioners will lose their winter fuel payments. Plus the triple lock is being removed which guarantees the pension against high inflation increases. Also if your house is over 100k and you receive care at home. Your home will be sold for that care when you die. It is being called the DIMENTIA TAX.
The Tories have doubled the national debt in 7 years and we have nothing to show for it except financial hardship for many families and now they turn on the pensioners. Only Labour can stop this. Vote for the many NOT THE FEW.
Pensions will increase in line with earning or inflation as opposed to rising by a minimum of 2.5%. Sorry to bring facts into the debate. May is a One Nation Conservative and she'll be getting my vote.
You watch them change it again when wage settlements and/or inflation goes above 2.5%.The Tories can't suppress the economy forever as they are doing now.At the moment intrest rates are at a historical low and so are wage settlements are are approx 1% and by the Tory's own admmission not keeping up with inflation.Just some more facts as I know you like facts.
Facts like "just you watch"
Sat May 20, 2017 4:53 pm
Sat May 20, 2017 7:07 pm
Tony Blue Williams wrote:Pant-Yr-Awel Oldie wrote:People's houses have been used to pay for homes for years. Right through Labours 13 years in power. I am on a pension and it won't affect me a lot. But it will affect me if and when Corbyn bankrups the country.
Yes people have been paying for their personal care for years including under the previous Labour Government. However, Labour introduced the triple lock and winter fuel payments (which you failed to mention)
I would also point out that the Tories have borrowed more money in the past 7 years than all previous Labour Governments put together So much for their so called economic competence.
Sat May 20, 2017 7:20 pm
Elwood Blues wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Pant-Yr-Awel Oldie wrote:People's houses have been used to pay for homes for years. Right through Labours 13 years in power. I am on a pension and it won't affect me a lot. But it will affect me if and when Corbyn bankrups the country.
Yes people have been paying for their personal care for years including under the previous Labour Government. However, Labour introduced the triple lock and winter fuel payments (which you failed to mention)
I would also point out that the Tories have borrowed more money in the past 7 years than all previous Labour Governments put together So much for their so called economic competence.
The coalition introduced the triple lock in 2010 Tony.
Sat May 20, 2017 8:02 pm
Sat May 20, 2017 8:12 pm
Steve Zodiak wrote:rontom wrote:Pant-Yr-Awel Oldie wrote:People's houses have been used to pay for homes for years. Right through Labours 13 years in power. I am on a pension and it won't affect me a lot. But it will affect me if and when Corbyn bankrups the country.
This present lot have more than doubled the debt left them, despite all the benefit cuts, and selling the nations silver like Lloyds Bank, the royal mail, RBS Bank, just to name a few, they are raping the country of money and giving it to their cronies. there is more chance of this lot bankrupting the country than Corbyn. They could not even produce a legal budget last time they tried. the excuse being they forgot about their promise in their manifesto god help us
Need to clarify a few facts here. The government has never ever owned Lloyds bank, so how can they sell something that throughout Lloyds history has never been in government hands. The most they held was in the immediate aftermath of the banking crisis, and that was around 44%. Lloyds would never have needed bailing out if Gordon Brown had not encouraged Lloyds to acquire HBOS, who had all sorts of hidden debts at the time. It was a clever move by Brown as a lot of the debts held at HBOS were reduced by using the funds held by Lloyds. The amount the government then had to pump into the new group was obviously far less as all the assets that Lloyds had was lost to the HBOS debts. I think you will find that Lloyds has never been the nation's silver, and a lot of their problems can be put down to Brown and the senior management who rushed through the merger without carrying out the usual due diligence tests.
Sun May 21, 2017 6:47 am
Tony Blue Williams wrote:Pant-Yr-Awel Oldie wrote:People's houses have been used to pay for homes for years. Right through Labours 13 years in power. I am on a pension and it won't affect me a lot. But it will affect me if and when Corbyn bankrups the country.
Yes people have been paying for their personal care for years including under the previous Labour Government. However, Labour introduced the triple lock and winter fuel payments (which you failed to mention)
I would also point out that the Tories have borrowed more money in the past 7 years than all previous Labour Governments put together So much for their so called economic competence.
Sun May 21, 2017 7:56 am
piledriver64 wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Pant-Yr-Awel Oldie wrote:People's houses have been used to pay for homes for years. Right through Labours 13 years in power. I am on a pension and it won't affect me a lot. But it will affect me if and when Corbyn bankrups the country.
Yes people have been paying for their personal care for years including under the previous Labour Government. However, Labour introduced the triple lock and winter fuel payments (which you failed to mention)
I would also point out that the Tories have borrowed more money in the past 7 years than all previous Labour Governments put together So much for their so called economic competence.
Spot on !!
We keep hearing about the terrible overspending of Labour governments but nobody is looking at the facts. That Tories borrowed more money !!
I just don't get how people aren't recognising these FACTS !! Must be taking the Tory spin and control of the Press as gospel rather than simply looking it up for themselves. So frustrating!!
The lack of knowledge of care costs also worries me. I have a mother and mother-in-law in care. We've had to sell two houses for care costs and, having looked at the Tory proposals, I can assure you that the money would have been used up even quicker if this was in place.
Personal care isn't the only thing involved in this change, read up about it and then someone tell me how this will result in families being able to keep more of the money that their loved ones worked so hard to accrue.
By the way, if you still think you'll be able to pass some of your assets to your kids do it now. Anything re-assigned within 7 years of it needing to be used for your care can be re-claimed by them !! Think ahead !!
Sun May 21, 2017 8:48 am
piledriver64 wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Pant-Yr-Awel Oldie wrote:People's houses have been used to pay for homes for years. Right through Labours 13 years in power. I am on a pension and it won't affect me a lot. But it will affect me if and when Corbyn bankrups the country.
Yes people have been paying for their personal care for years including under the previous Labour Government. However, Labour introduced the triple lock and winter fuel payments (which you failed to mention)
I would also point out that the Tories have borrowed more money in the past 7 years than all previous Labour Governments put together So much for their so called economic competence.
Spot on !!
We keep hearing about the terrible overspending of Labour governments but nobody is looking at the facts. That Tories borrowed more money !!
I just don't get how people aren't recognising these FACTS !! Must be taking the Tory spin and control of the Press as gospel rather than simply looking it up for themselves. So frustrating!!
The lack of knowledge of care costs also worries me. I have a mother and mother-in-law in care. We've had to sell two houses for care costs and, having looked at the Tory proposals, I can assure you that the money would have been used up even quicker if this was in place.
Personal care isn't the only thing involved in this change, read up about it and then someone tell me how this will result in families being able to keep more of the money that their loved ones worked so hard to accrue.
By the way, if you still think you'll be able to pass some of your assets to your kids do it now. Anything re-assigned within 7 years of it needing to be used for your care can be re-claimed by them !! Think ahead !!
Sun May 21, 2017 11:43 am
Sun May 21, 2017 1:16 pm
Jock wrote:Merlin11 wrote:According to Laura Keunsberg the BBC's main bias political correspondent. 10 mILLION pensioners will lose their winter fuel payments. Plus the triple lock is being removed which guarantees the pension against high inflation increases. Also if your house is over 100k and you receive care at home. Your home will be sold for that care when you die. It is being called the DIMENTIA TAX.
The Tories have doubled the national debt in 7 years and we have nothing to show for it except financial hardship for many families and now they turn on the pensioners. Only Labour can stop this. Vote for the many NOT THE FEW.
Pensions will increase in line with earning or inflation as opposed to rising by a minimum of 2.5%. Sorry to bring facts into the debate. May is a One Nation Conservative and she'll be getting my vote.
Sun May 21, 2017 2:26 pm
epping blue wrote:Jock wrote:Merlin11 wrote:According to Laura Keunsberg the BBC's main bias political correspondent. 10 mILLION pensioners will lose their winter fuel payments. Plus the triple lock is being removed which guarantees the pension against high inflation increases. Also if your house is over 100k and you receive care at home. Your home will be sold for that care when you die. It is being called the DIMENTIA TAX.
The Tories have doubled the national debt in 7 years and we have nothing to show for it except financial hardship for many families and now they turn on the pensioners. Only Labour can stop this. Vote for the many NOT THE FEW.
Pensions will increase in line with earning or inflation as opposed to rising by a minimum of 2.5%. Sorry to bring facts into the debate. May is a One Nation Conservative and she'll be getting my vote.
She'll be getting my vote although I don't agree with the one nation crap.
The opening poster has a point though and Brexit is far too big a current issue to be dealt with by anyone else. If she's seen to use the current tory popularity as a opportunity to get these types of issues through then even though she wins comfortably this time she'll be thrown out in 5 years. Surely by then there'll be a credible opposition.
With all these proposals the devil will be in the detail but assuming this gets funded along the lines of the student loan ( surely they wont be less favourable - to them not us ) then the figures could be alarming.
2 hours a day for 10 years could see £ 250 k plus wiped off an estate. The carer gets £ 7.50 / hour of the £ 25 hour you pay the agency add the interest and that the result is middle England and middle Wales have their inheritance wiped out. At any other time than now that loses the election for the tories.
I don't think its so much the principal of paying but the fact but the fact that you'll be paying £ 250 k for £ 50 k worth of care. So if you can possibly afford to finance the care yourselves and bypass the agencies then you could be quids in.
Sun May 21, 2017 2:38 pm
Sun May 21, 2017 2:41 pm
Merlin11 wrote:Good advice Epping blue. Only problem for many who have long term health problems they are probably unable to organise the support which is needed. This is where joe public will be ripped off by unscrupulous care firms and believe me they are out there.
Early indications show that wooden May has scored an incredible own goal in attacking pensioners with this triple whammy. This as I posted could be a game changer and certainly the latest poll you gov/ Sunday times con 44 Lab 35 (10 points up since May called the election) is remarkable. Many elderly who were going to vote Tory are changing their minds and it will be interesting to see the next few days polling returns. Only another 5% Tory pensioners who are unhappy with the Tory manifesto need to switch to make it a very interesting election night
Sun May 21, 2017 3:01 pm
Steve Zodiak wrote:Merlin11 wrote:Good advice Epping blue. Only problem for many who have long term health problems they are probably unable to organise the support which is needed. This is where joe public will be ripped off by unscrupulous care firms and believe me they are out there.
Early indications show that wooden May has scored an incredible own goal in attacking pensioners with this triple whammy. This as I posted could be a game changer and certainly the latest poll you gov/ Sunday times con 44 Lab 35 (10 points up since May called the election) is remarkable. Many elderly who were going to vote Tory are changing their minds and it will be interesting to see the next few days polling returns. Only another 5% Tory pensioners who are unhappy with the Tory manifesto need to switch to make it a very interesting election night
Like I've said on another thread, I don't think it will affect us here in Wales. We will continue under Labour at Cardiff Bay as we have for the last 20 years.
Sun May 21, 2017 3:40 pm
Merlin11 wrote:Steve Zodiak wrote:Merlin11 wrote:Good advice Epping blue. Only problem for many who have long term health problems they are probably unable to organise the support which is needed. This is where joe public will be ripped off by unscrupulous care firms and believe me they are out there.
Early indications show that wooden May has scored an incredible own goal in attacking pensioners with this triple whammy. This as I posted could be a game changer and certainly the latest poll you gov/ Sunday times con 44 Lab 35 (10 points up since May called the election) is remarkable. Many elderly who were going to vote Tory are changing their minds and it will be interesting to see the next few days polling returns. Only another 5% Tory pensioners who are unhappy with the Tory manifesto need to switch to make it a very interesting election night
Like I've said on another thread, I don't think it will affect us here in Wales. We will continue under Labour at Cardiff Bay as we have for the last 20 years.
Social care is devolved. Winter fuel payments, and the triple lock on pensions are decided at a Westminster.
Sun May 21, 2017 4:29 pm
Sun May 21, 2017 4:45 pm
castleblue wrote:I agree with the OP here as I believe this policy of attacking the older members of society is a betrayal certainly of my generation and sadly my parents generation. So far during this election campaign TM has come across as a cold, calculating and insincere and, in my opinion, her answer to the "Social Care" issue is "How dare you grow old", "How dare you get ill" and "How dare you become a burden".
Social Care has become the biggest challenge in the UK and has been so since Thatcher decide to privatise care homes back in the 1980. The dream of owning your own home was championed by Thatcher and so many of my generation have worked their bollocks off to do that but, and this is the irony of this situation, just 3 Tory Prime Ministers on and the bastards are making a grab for the equity in my property. They are even arrogant enough to say that £100k is enough to leave as an inheritance - REALLY. So what happens to the current generations where millions have given up ALL hope of ever owning a home, What about those and what about their children and their children. This policy of paying for "Social Care" through a stealth inheritance tax, and that is exactly what this is, is unsustainable beyond 20 years in my opinion. What then?
I remember my parents talking about their hopes for the future, hope that was based on the promise made by Winston Churchill in his "After The War" speech in which he stated there would be a new " national compulsory insurance for all classes for all purposes from the cradle to the grave".. Thatcher pissed all over that promise by privatising care homes and putting "Profit" ahead of "Care" but this is worse in my opinion as you will only get decent care if you own a home with more than £100k equity in it. If you don't then look up Union Workhouses because any care you need will be akin to that.
If National Insurance contributions are not collecting enough revenue to cover "Cradle to Grave" insurance for every UK citizen then, in my opinion, the answer is simple increase the level of contributions.
Whatever your politics this will affect every family and I hope the British public wake up to the risks here and give TM a REAL message in this Election. Even if that means Corbyn gets the big job.
Sun May 21, 2017 5:20 pm
Sun May 21, 2017 5:33 pm
Pant-Yr-Awel Oldie wrote:Me and the wife will get by without a winter fuel payment. Only the worse off should get it. I want the government to put it to better use. I wish the party i belonged to for many years would stop telling lies and half truths to scrape up votes from the gullible.
Sun May 21, 2017 5:45 pm
Steve Zodiak wrote:castleblue wrote:I agree with the OP here as I believe this policy of attacking the older members of society is a betrayal certainly of my generation and sadly my parents generation. So far during this election campaign TM has come across as a cold, calculating and insincere and, in my opinion, her answer to the "Social Care" issue is "How dare you grow old", "How dare you get ill" and "How dare you become a burden".
Social Care has become the biggest challenge in the UK and has been so since Thatcher decide to privatise care homes back in the 1980. The dream of owning your own home was championed by Thatcher and so many of my generation have worked their bollocks off to do that but, and this is the irony of this situation, just 3 Tory Prime Ministers on and the bastards are making a grab for the equity in my property. They are even arrogant enough to say that £100k is enough to leave as an inheritance - REALLY. So what happens to the current generations where millions have given up ALL hope of ever owning a home, What about those and what about their children and their children. This policy of paying for "Social Care" through a stealth inheritance tax, and that is exactly what this is, is unsustainable beyond 20 years in my opinion. What then?
I remember my parents talking about their hopes for the future, hope that was based on the promise made by Winston Churchill in his "After The War" speech in which he stated there would be a new " national compulsory insurance for all classes for all purposes from the cradle to the grave".. Thatcher pissed all over that promise by privatising care homes and putting "Profit" ahead of "Care" but this is worse in my opinion as you will only get decent care if you own a home with more than £100k equity in it. If you don't then look up Union Workhouses because any care you need will be akin to that.
If National Insurance contributions are not collecting enough revenue to cover "Cradle to Grave" insurance for every UK citizen then, in my opinion, the answer is simple increase the level of contributions.
Whatever your politics this will affect every family and I hope the British public wake up to the risks here and give TM a REAL message in this Election. Even if that means Corbyn gets the big job.
While I respect your opinion Castleblue, why does everyone feel the state owes them something. I thought the whole idea of a fair and just society was that those who can afford to do so pay towards those who through no fault of their own cannot afford the same things. I am not rich, but I am prepared to take responsibilty for myself, and I don't expect the working man to pay for me if I need to be looked after in the future. Obviously, I will not turn it down if offered, but the only difference will be my children (who are not children now) get a nice sum of money to spend courtesy of the tax payer, rather then me use my own money for my care.
Sun May 21, 2017 5:56 pm
castleblue wrote:Steve Zodiak wrote:castleblue wrote:I agree with the OP here as I believe this policy of attacking the older members of society is a betrayal certainly of my generation and sadly my parents generation. So far during this election campaign TM has come across as a cold, calculating and insincere and, in my opinion, her answer to the "Social Care" issue is "How dare you grow old", "How dare you get ill" and "How dare you become a burden".
Social Care has become the biggest challenge in the UK and has been so since Thatcher decide to privatise care homes back in the 1980. The dream of owning your own home was championed by Thatcher and so many of my generation have worked their bollocks off to do that but, and this is the irony of this situation, just 3 Tory Prime Ministers on and the bastards are making a grab for the equity in my property. They are even arrogant enough to say that £100k is enough to leave as an inheritance - REALLY. So what happens to the current generations where millions have given up ALL hope of ever owning a home, What about those and what about their children and their children. This policy of paying for "Social Care" through a stealth inheritance tax, and that is exactly what this is, is unsustainable beyond 20 years in my opinion. What then?
I remember my parents talking about their hopes for the future, hope that was based on the promise made by Winston Churchill in his "After The War" speech in which he stated there would be a new " national compulsory insurance for all classes for all purposes from the cradle to the grave".. Thatcher pissed all over that promise by privatising care homes and putting "Profit" ahead of "Care" but this is worse in my opinion as you will only get decent care if you own a home with more than £100k equity in it. If you don't then look up Union Workhouses because any care you need will be akin to that.
If National Insurance contributions are not collecting enough revenue to cover "Cradle to Grave" insurance for every UK citizen then, in my opinion, the answer is simple increase the level of contributions.
Whatever your politics this will affect every family and I hope the British public wake up to the risks here and give TM a REAL message in this Election. Even if that means Corbyn gets the big job.
While I respect your opinion Castleblue, why does everyone feel the state owes them something. I thought the whole idea of a fair and just society was that those who can afford to do so pay towards those who through no fault of their own cannot afford the same things. I am not rich, but I am prepared to take responsibilty for myself, and I don't expect the working man to pay for me if I need to be looked after in the future. Obviously, I will not turn it down if offered, but the only difference will be my children (who are not children now) get a nice sum of money to spend courtesy of the tax payer, rather then me use my own money for my care.
I don't think the state owes me anything other than a "Duty Of Care" and in terms of "Welfare and Health Care" only at a time when I require it. Outside of those times and as my contribution to a "Fair & Just" Society I, like millions of others, have worked and paid my taxes without complaint. I have only hoped that my "Contribution" to central funds be used to help others in need of state support, either through welfare or healthcare.
Like many of my generation I have paid into a pension fund throughout my working life and when I do retire in a few years I will likely have to pay income tax on my earnings, but not National Insurance, Why not introduce a new lower rate of National Insurance for people of pensionable age , based on earnings and any monies raised to be used SOLELY for Social Care for the elderly. Surely in a Fair and Just Society that is a fairer way of trying to solve a massive problem like Social Care rather than a stealth inheritance tax.
I respect the right for people to decide for themselves to use their homes to raise money to pay for their care, many already do this through equity release companies, but I will NEVER agree that it is right that the state impose this on anyone.
Sun May 21, 2017 6:23 pm
Sun May 21, 2017 8:20 pm
Mon May 22, 2017 8:40 am
goats wrote:There is definitely something about politics that just makes people, lots of people, mates even, sound like cnuts.
I despair with it, it's all bollox anyway. They say they will do this when elected, but they rarely ever do. History has proved this over and over. They will just blame the previous regime mess and claim they can't afford to do whatever now bla bla.....
All these lefties spouting bollox, reminds me of the same guff when Blair blew into power, yeah that ended well.
The tories are on another planet to most folks too. No decent choice as ever.
Mon May 22, 2017 10:17 am
Steve Zodiak wrote:piledriver64 wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Pant-Yr-Awel Oldie wrote:People's houses have been used to pay for homes for years. Right through Labours 13 years in power. I am on a pension and it won't affect me a lot. But it will affect me if and when Corbyn bankrups the country.
Yes people have been paying for their personal care for years including under the previous Labour Government. However, Labour introduced the triple lock and winter fuel payments (which you failed to mention)
I would also point out that the Tories have borrowed more money in the past 7 years than all previous Labour Governments put together So much for their so called economic competence.
Spot on !!
We keep hearing about the terrible overspending of Labour governments but nobody is looking at the facts. That Tories borrowed more money !!
I just don't get how people aren't recognising these FACTS !! Must be taking the Tory spin and control of the Press as gospel rather than simply looking it up for themselves. So frustrating!!
The lack of knowledge of care costs also worries me. I have a mother and mother-in-law in care. We've had to sell two houses for care costs and, having looked at the Tory proposals, I can assure you that the money would have been used up even quicker if this was in place.
Personal care isn't the only thing involved in this change, read up about it and then someone tell me how this will result in families being able to keep more of the money that their loved ones worked so hard to accrue.
By the way, if you still think you'll be able to pass some of your assets to your kids do it now. Anything re-assigned within 7 years of it needing to be used for your care can be re-claimed by them !! Think ahead !!
Like I have said before on here, are you (I presume you are working and are a tax payer) happy enough to pay for me and my upkeep so that I can hand over hundreds of thousands of pounds to my children who are obviously now adults and earning themselves, so that they can buy new cars and go on exotic holidays, or do you think that I should take responsibility for myself. If the taxpayers are happy to pay for me, that's fine by me and will give my adult children money for cars and holidays. If the taxpayer thinks that as I have the means to look after myself, that's fine as well. I had nothing handed down to me, and neither did my parents. We all took responsibility for our own upkeep, lived within our means, and never expected or believed that the state owed us a particular lifestyle. We also agreed that our taxes should be used to help those in desperate need. Done my bit for those who needed help, but I don't believe any of you should pay for me when I have assets of my own.
Mon May 22, 2017 10:23 am
Merlin11 wrote:goats wrote:There is definitely something about politics that just makes people, lots of people, mates even, sound like cnuts.
I despair with it, it's all bollox anyway. They say they will do this when elected, but they rarely ever do. History has proved this over and over. They will just blame the previous regime mess and claim they can't afford to do whatever now bla bla.....
All these lefties spouting bollox, reminds me of the same guff when Blair blew into power, yeah that ended well.
The tories are on another planet to most folks too. No decent choice as ever.
One of the main complaints over the years at most election times from a fair percentage of voters was that there was no difference, their all the same what's the point in voting. I have only heard this once this election and it did take me back a bit.
The gulf between Tory and Labour is huge this time round. So there is a huge difference especially on the NHS where it is being lined up to be sold off. I suggest you research Peter Lilly (ex minister) director of one these health firms who is paid £4.50p a minute.