TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Forever Blue » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:38 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:Can never forgive or forget. He ripped the heart and soul out of this Club. Wounds are still very raw and yes there is now a good feel good factor, and that is the way it needs to stay. If Tan was to return it would open the wounds again and fans would start bickering again.
Some fans would welcome him with open arms singing his name, others would except but keep there gobs shut, others would be very vocal against him, some may walk again. So no he should respectfully stay away.
Let's get this straight he has never ever given us an heartfelt apology either and he isn't going to.
So to keep harmony amongst the fans he should never show his mug again and I still can't wait for the day he leaves.
But that is my view and I respect the other views on the man just I don't agree.



heart felt appology..?
hang on he wanted to rebrand us...backed off after the imediate reaction saying something along the lines of keeeping us stable in blue but investing heavey in red...our fans chose the later took the cash then changed their minds.
i hated the red..but im a grown up and like when who i voted for doesnt end up governing..i accept the majority view..whic it was.
id welcome him because he honoured his part of the deal...and has infact gone a bit further by reversing the rebrand and still backs our managers despite the club hemorrhaging cash year on year.

btw it wasnt the first time Cardiff City won promotion to the top flight wearing a LUCKY colour that was not blue.
back then the fans were just happy to have a good team though....and didnt have a Malaysian millionaire to rant at.

Our fans chose the red ? No they did not the fans leaders chose the red then violence threatened against anyone who opposed what was going on and that is the truth.



Sort of correct Nukes, some so called fans leaders, two main ones Gwyn Davies and Tony Jeffries choice the Despicable Red.

We all know you didn't Annis or Carl. TBH I guessed you know I wasn't lumping you in with the rest that begged Tan to make us red and take the cash. :thumbup:




Cheers Nukes, I never for once thought you did, also David Surgaman aka TLG or Tracey 100% did not accept it, in fact they were in some ways threatened at the meeting for not accepting, so never returned for the next meeting they were both so hurt.
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Nuclearblue » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:59 pm

Forever Blue wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:Can never forgive or forget. He ripped the heart and soul out of this Club. Wounds are still very raw and yes there is now a good feel good factor, and that is the way it needs to stay. If Tan was to return it would open the wounds again and fans would start bickering again.
Some fans would welcome him with open arms singing his name, others would except but keep there gobs shut, others would be very vocal against him, some may walk again. So no he should respectfully stay away.
Let's get this straight he has never ever given us an heartfelt apology either and he isn't going to.
So to keep harmony amongst the fans he should never show his mug again and I still can't wait for the day he leaves.
But that is my view and I respect the other views on the man just I don't agree.



heart felt appology..?
hang on he wanted to rebrand us...backed off after the imediate reaction saying something along the lines of keeeping us stable in blue but investing heavey in red...our fans chose the later took the cash then changed their minds.
i hated the red..but im a grown up and like when who i voted for doesnt end up governing..i accept the majority view..whic it was.
id welcome him because he honoured his part of the deal...and has infact gone a bit further by reversing the rebrand and still backs our managers despite the club hemorrhaging cash year on year.

btw it wasnt the first time Cardiff City won promotion to the top flight wearing a LUCKY colour that was not blue.
back then the fans were just happy to have a good team though....and didnt have a Malaysian millionaire to rant at.

Our fans chose the red ? No they did not the fans leaders chose the red then violence threatened against anyone who opposed what was going on and that is the truth.



Sort of correct Nukes, some so called fans leaders, two main ones Gwyn Davies and Tony Jeffries choice the Despicable Red.

We all know you didn't Annis or Carl. TBH I guessed you know I wasn't lumping you in with the rest that begged Tan to make us red and take the cash. :thumbup:




Cheers Nukes, I never for once thought you did, also David Surgaman aka TLG or Tracey 100% did not accept it, in fact they were in some ways threatened at the meeting for not accepting, so never returned for the next meeting they were both so hurt.

Annis it makes me mad when some say the fans chose the red. I can't remember being asked or voting for this. It was thrust on us by a few and I won't forgive for that.
The threats were real as you know it happened to me. One of my Friends had been threatened with harm coming to there children, friendships were strained and WTF with the "What's going on in the world" bullshit. That ain't got nothing to do with this topic.
And as you said you never started this thread or start threads now on Tan and neither do I. But if one gets started and we comment we get the "You won't let it lie" crap. It's as if we can only comment if you want to suck Tans dick.
I gave what I thought was a respectful answer but then got the crap after just like you. I give up :lol: :lol:
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby WelshPatriot » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:39 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:Can never forgive or forget. He ripped the heart and soul out of this Club. Wounds are still very raw and yes there is now a good feel good factor, and that is the way it needs to stay. If Tan was to return it would open the wounds again and fans would start bickering again.
Some fans would welcome him with open arms singing his name, others would except but keep there gobs shut, others would be very vocal against him, some may walk again. So no he should respectfully stay away.
Let's get this straight he has never ever given us an heartfelt apology either and he isn't going to.
So to keep harmony amongst the fans he should never show his mug again and I still can't wait for the day he leaves.
But that is my view and I respect the other views on the man just I don't agree.



heart felt appology..?
hang on he wanted to rebrand us...backed off after the imediate reaction saying something along the lines of keeeping us stable in blue but investing heavey in red...our fans chose the later took the cash then changed their minds.
i hated the red..but im a grown up and like when who i voted for doesnt end up governing..i accept the majority view..whic it was.
id welcome him because he honoured his part of the deal...and has infact gone a bit further by reversing the rebrand and still backs our managers despite the club hemorrhaging cash year on year.

btw it wasnt the first time Cardiff City won promotion to the top flight wearing a LUCKY colour that was not blue.
back then the fans were just happy to have a good team though....and didnt have a Malaysian millionaire to rant at.

Our fans chose the red ? No they did not the fans leaders chose the red then violence threatened against anyone who opposed what was going on and that is the truth.



Sort of correct Nukes, some so called fans leaders, two main ones Gwyn Davies and Tony Jeffries choice the Despicable Red.

We all know you didn't Annis or Carl. TBH I guessed you know I wasn't lumping you in with the rest that begged Tan to make us red and take the cash. :thumbup:




Cheers Nukes, I never for once thought you did, also David Surgaman aka TLG or Tracey 100% did not accept it, in fact they were in some ways threatened at the meeting for not accepting, so never returned for the next meeting they were both so hurt.

Annis it makes me mad when some say the fans chose the red. I can't remember being asked or voting for this. It was thrust on us by a few and I won't forgive for that.
The threats were real as you know it happened to me. One of my Friends had been threatened with harm coming to there children, friendships were strained and WTF with the "What's going on in the world" bullshit. That ain't got nothing to do with this topic.
And as you said you never started this thread or start threads now on Tan and neither do I. But if one gets started and we comment we get the "You won't let it lie" crap. It's as if we can only comment if you want to suck Tans dick.
I gave what I thought was a respectful answer but then got the crap after just like you. I give up :lol: :lol:


I was the one who said about all the crap going on in the world and I also said don't be offended but hey ho crack on winding yourself up and getting angry.
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Bluebird1977 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:43 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Ebbw Blue wrote:No I will not welcome him back. People need to remember the amount of debt we are carrying is down to Tan.


Debt which is all owed to him :roll: and is not going anywhere. Also don't forget he has written off £20m of that debt and will one day do the same with the rest.

Oh yea just like we was going to be debt free within months after turning red promise :laughing5:


As for the posts about new players from some people hes only trying to recoup his money back he aint signing players for us is he :bluescarf:
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Steve Zodiak » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:59 pm

Bluebird1977 wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Ebbw Blue wrote:No I will not welcome him back. People need to remember the amount of debt we are carrying is down to Tan.


Debt which is all owed to him :roll: and is not going anywhere. Also don't forget he has written off £20m of that debt and will one day do the same with the rest.

Oh yea just like we was going to be debt free within months after turning red promise :laughing5:


As for the posts about new players from some people hes only trying to recoup his money back he aint signing players for us is he :bluescarf:

Plenty of promises but not much sign of any big reduction in the debts yet. Be interesting to see what the future holds.
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby dogfound » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:13 pm

Bluebird1977 wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Ebbw Blue wrote:No I will not welcome him back. People need to remember the amount of debt we are carrying is down to Tan.


Debt which is all owed to him :roll: and is not going anywhere. Also don't forget he has written off £20m of that debt and will one day do the same with the rest.

Oh yea just like we was going to be debt free within months after turning red promise :laughing5:


As for the posts about new players from some people hes only trying to recoup his money back he aint signing players for us is he :bluescarf:



please show a link to debt free in months promise....
.he isnt signing players for us he is just trying to get his money back....?
he is in a bit of a no win situ in your eyes......
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Bluebird1977 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:54 am

Steve Zodiak wrote:
Bluebird1977 wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Ebbw Blue wrote:No I will not welcome him back. People need to remember the amount of debt we are carrying is down to Tan.


Debt which is all owed to him :roll: and is not going anywhere. Also don't forget he has written off £20m of that debt and will one day do the same with the rest.

Oh yea just like we was going to be debt free within months after turning red promise :laughing5:


As for the posts about new players from some people hes only trying to recoup his money back he aint signing players for us is he :bluescarf:

Plenty of promises but not much sign of any big reduction in the debts yet. Be interesting to see what the future holds.


The future holds more of this id guess.......until he finally leaves and the debt he has made much much bigger will be still owed :thumbup:

What Tan has said...
“It was intended for Vincent Tan to then transfer the debts due to him into equity and drive revenues through aggressive marketing.”

May 11, 2012
Open letter from (former chairman) Dato Chan Tien Ghee after initial opposition to the rebrand, “We are talking to Sam Hammam to try and resolve the Langston issue.
“We are days away from an agreement and then we can convert all the loans to equity.”

July 22, 2013
“We are in the process of turning loans into equity. We are talking to shareholders now and after that I will convert my loan into equity. It will take the club to almost debt-free, probably in the next couple of months, God willing.”
Vincent Tan.

August 15, 2013
“Mr Tan gave some cultural, but no commercial reasons for the rebrand and told us that there would be no debt to equity conversion until after the settlement of the current legal dispute with the former manager (Malky Mackay).”
Minutes of a Cardiff City Supporters Trust meeting.

March 19, 2014 - “I will convert some of my debt to equity, but not all because the amount is very big. The club owes me maybe £120m and I put in £140m or £150m. Maybe I will convert £50m and leave £100m debt.”


All whats said is a FACT and said by TAN himself.
I could add another 5-7 promises in there on other dates to the present date from this so called 8million a year conversion on the debt to when the malky issue was resolved it will be done but whats the point people will still believe the spin year on year it summed up by keith in a few words below...

Trust board member and director of international accountancy firm Mazars, Keith Morgan, told BBC Sport Wales that Tan's clearing of the third-party debts had done little to achieve this.
"It's like moving the deckchairs on the Titanic," said Morgan.
"It's not reducing the liabilities on the business, just changes to who it's owed.
"The club still can't afford to pay back the money it owes.
"He [Tan] needs to fulfil his promise to convert all his loans into shares."
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Steve Zodiak » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:19 am

I won't be one of those who believes all the spin. I remember the promises about us being debt free within a few months (God willing) and four years later we still have massive debts at the club. Been following this club too long to believe everything that comes from those in charge as they have always said what they think the fans want to hear. I'll wait and see what happens, and judge Tan when he leaves us and based on the state of this club at that time.
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Jules » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:02 am

Forever Blue wrote:
Jules wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
Jules wrote:So you not going to be waving your little Malaysian flag anytime soon then Annis ? :D

NOW BEFORE THE HATE MOB GET ON MY BACK ' THIS IS A JOKE' which I hope Annis will see as just that. :thumbup:

trying to lighten the mood :ayatollah:


No joke Jules, I welcomed TG/Malaysia and I feel TG was very sincere regarding Cardiff City, he told us at the shareholders meeting while he was at Cardiff City we would always be BLUE and PROUD,then Tan arrived and TG was kicked out,Very Sad really, so No jokes,maybe it was to you Jules :roll: :roll: :roll:


AH righto, Take it how you want, couldn't care what you think to be honest. but everyone allowed an opinion, as you always say. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Just cannot see why people have so much HATE ??? He done wrong. He changed it back . move on ffs. there's already enough hate around without this petty shite.

All the OP has done is opened old wounds which I think were slowly healing but this just shows that that is not the case so cut out the crap about us all being together again. Just MY OPINION mind. :roll: :roll: :roll:


If u don't care about what I think, Jules why was I the only one you named on here?

I did not even start this topic, in fact I never start topics about Tan anymore :thumbright: :thumbright:

We are together behind Warnock, but why because you say or anyone else says should we suddenly like Tan, but like you say you don't care what I say or my opinion, so stay of anything I write,very simple Tan/Red lover :D


Annis,me old mate, we will always disagree on this, not a Red/Tan lover in the least. But a lover of CARDIFF CITY FOOTBALL CLUB. like yourself, period !!! :thumbup:
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Igovernor » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:07 am

Steve Zodiak wrote:I won't be one of those who believes all the spin. I remember the promises about us being debt free within a few months (God willing) and four years later we still have massive debts at the club. Been following this club too long to believe everything that comes from those in charge as they have always said what they think the fans want to hear. I'll wait and see what happens, and judge Tan when he leaves us and based on the state of this club at that time.


DOH! we have no debt, Tan owns the club and any debt is owed to him, therefore it is not a debt to owe yourself money, people want to wake up, and use what little brain matter they have :thumbup:
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Forever Blue » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:44 am

Jules wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
Jules wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
Jules wrote:So you not going to be waving your little Malaysian flag anytime soon then Annis ? :D

NOW BEFORE THE HATE MOB GET ON MY BACK ' THIS IS A JOKE' which I hope Annis will see as just that. :thumbup:

trying to lighten the mood :ayatollah:


No joke Jules, I welcomed TG/Malaysia and I feel TG was very sincere regarding Cardiff City, he told us at the shareholders meeting while he was at Cardiff City we would always be BLUE and PROUD,then Tan arrived and TG was kicked out,Very Sad really, so No jokes,maybe it was to you Jules :roll: :roll: :roll:


AH righto, Take it how you want, couldn't care what you think to be honest. but everyone allowed an opinion, as you always say. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Just cannot see why people have so much HATE ??? He done wrong. He changed it back . move on ffs. there's already enough hate around without this petty shite.

All the OP has done is opened old wounds which I think were slowly healing but this just shows that that is not the case so cut out the crap about us all being together again. Just MY OPINION mind. :roll: :roll: :roll:


If u don't care about what I think, Jules why was I the only one you named on here?

I did not even start this topic, in fact I never start topics about Tan anymore :thumbright: :thumbright:

We are together behind Warnock, but why because you say or anyone else says should we suddenly like Tan, but like you say you don't care what I say or my opinion, so stay of anything I write,very simple Tan/Red lover :D


Annis,me old mate, we will always disagree on this, not a Red/Tan lover in the least. But a lover of CARDIFF CITY FOOTBALL CLUB. like yourself, period !!! :thumbup:



Jules, fair enough, but the sarcasm started by yourself, I was just winding u up back :thumbup:

I know your a proud City fan :thumbright: :ayatollah: :bluebird:
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Ebbw Blue » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:16 pm

Igovernor wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:I won't be one of those who believes all the spin. I remember the promises about us being debt free within a few months (God willing) and four years later we still have massive debts at the club. Been following this club too long to believe everything that comes from those in charge as they have always said what they think the fans want to hear. I'll wait and see what happens, and judge Tan when he leaves us and based on the state of this club at that time.


DOH! we have no debt, Tan owns the club and any debt is owed to him, therefore it is not a debt to owe yourself money, people want to wake up, and use what little brain matter they have :thumbup:


Don't bother getting a job as an accountant then, if you believe your statement
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Igovernor » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:20 pm

Yeh, just keep banging that old that stick, must be worn out by now, as I said previously get a life :thumbup:
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Ebbw Blue » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:22 pm

Igovernor wrote:Yeh, just keep banging that old that stick, must be worn out by now, as I said previously get a life :thumbup:



Stop posting nonsense then, that the club is not in debt.
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Steve Zodiak » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:38 pm

Igovernor wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:I won't be one of those who believes all the spin. I remember the promises about us being debt free within a few months (God willing) and four years later we still have massive debts at the club. Been following this club too long to believe everything that comes from those in charge as they have always said what they think the fans want to hear. I'll wait and see what happens, and judge Tan when he leaves us and based on the state of this club at that time.


DOH! we have no debt, Tan owns the club and any debt is owed to him, therefore it is not a debt to owe yourself money, people want to wake up, and use what little brain matter they have :thumbup:

That's ok then. If we have no debt we don't need to be concerned about FFP. We were certainly worried about FFP a short time back, so those debts must have magically vanished.
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby nubbsy » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:27 am

Bluebird1977 wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
Bluebird1977 wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Ebbw Blue wrote:No I will not welcome him back. People need to remember the amount of debt we are carrying is down to Tan.


Debt which is all owed to him :roll: and is not going anywhere. Also don't forget he has written off £20m of that debt and will one day do the same with the rest.

Oh yea just like we was going to be debt free within months after turning red promise :laughing5:


As for the posts about new players from some people hes only trying to recoup his money back he aint signing players for us is he :bluescarf:

Plenty of promises but not much sign of any big reduction in the debts yet. Be interesting to see what the future holds.


The future holds more of this id guess.......until he finally leaves and the debt he has made much much bigger will be still owed :thumbup:

What Tan has said...
“It was intended for Vincent Tan to then transfer the debts due to him into equity and drive revenues through aggressive marketing.”

May 11, 2012
Open letter from (former chairman) Dato Chan Tien Ghee after initial opposition to the rebrand, “We are talking to Sam Hammam to try and resolve the Langston issue.
“We are days away from an agreement and then we can convert all the loans to equity.”

July 22, 2013
“We are in the process of turning loans into equity. We are talking to shareholders now and after that I will convert my loan into equity. It will take the club to almost debt-free, probably in the next couple of months, God willing.”
Vincent Tan.

August 15, 2013
“Mr Tan gave some cultural, but no commercial reasons for the rebrand and told us that there would be no debt to equity conversion until after the settlement of the current legal dispute with the former manager (Malky Mackay).”
Minutes of a Cardiff City Supporters Trust meeting.

March 19, 2014 - “I will convert some of my debt to equity, but not all because the amount is very big. The club owes me maybe £120m and I put in £140m or £150m. Maybe I will convert £50m and leave £100m debt.”


All whats said is a FACT and said by TAN himself.
I could add another 5-7 promises in there on other dates to the present date from this so called 8million a year conversion on the debt to when the malky issue was resolved it will be done but whats the point people will still believe the spin year on year it summed up by keith in a few words below...

Trust board member and director of international accountancy firm Mazars, Keith Morgan, told BBC Sport Wales that Tan's clearing of the third-party debts had done little to achieve this.
"It's like moving the deckchairs on the Titanic," said Morgan.
"It's not reducing the liabilities on the business, just changes to who it's owed.
"The club still can't afford to pay back the money it owes.
"He [Tan] needs to fulfil his promise to convert all his loans into shares."



Someone people have short memories
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Igovernor » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:52 am

Short memories or perhaps people do not know Malaysian law! To move money out of Malaysia there are very stringent laws and rules, the main one being that when the government is informed that someone wants to move money out, there is a minimum of 12 months of checks, and that is for amounts that do not come anywhere near what Vincent Tan wants to move over here. The more money the more checks. It could still be quite some time before all the money is transferred to City. Perhaps you can point out to me where on earth there is anything anywhere that says an owner of a company who owes money to himself is called a debt? If he left tomorrow the "DEBT" as you call it would go with him. Perhaps it is too hard for people to grab that concept, if they don't it really is pointless and a waste of my time trying to explain :thumbup:
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby dogfound » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:58 am

Nuclearblue wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:Can never forgive or forget. He ripped the heart and soul out of this Club. Wounds are still very raw and yes there is now a good feel good factor, and that is the way it needs to stay. If Tan was to return it would open the wounds again and fans would start bickering again.
Some fans would welcome him with open arms singing his name, others would except but keep there gobs shut, others would be very vocal against him, some may walk again. So no he should respectfully stay away.
Let's get this straight he has never ever given us an heartfelt apology either and he isn't going to.
So to keep harmony amongst the fans he should never show his mug again and I still can't wait for the day he leaves.
But that is my view and I respect the other views on the man just I don't agree.



heart felt appology..?
hang on he wanted to rebrand us...backed off after the imediate reaction saying something along the lines of keeeping us stable in blue but investing heavey in red...our fans chose the later took the cash then changed their minds.
i hated the red..but im a grown up and like when who i voted for doesnt end up governing..i accept the majority view..whic it was.
id welcome him because he honoured his part of the deal...and has infact gone a bit further by reversing the rebrand and still backs our managers despite the club hemorrhaging cash year on year.

btw it wasnt the first time Cardiff City won promotion to the top flight wearing a LUCKY colour that was not blue.
back then the fans were just happy to have a good team though....and didnt have a Malaysian millionaire to rant at.

Our fans chose the red ? No they did not the fans leaders chose the red then violence threatened against anyone who opposed what was going on and that is the truth.


our fans chose red?
what i said was stable in blue or heavy investment in red...that was the choice and living in a country where there are a thousand plus preotests every year..our fans ...couldnt muster half a dozen bodies in the car park with a banner...or infact more than a couple of dozen wanting ST refunds .which is nowhere near what you have tried to imply i said.
OUR protest was record crowds at our new stadium........so if thats not choosing the later i dont know what is..
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby dogfound » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:07 am

nubbsy wrote:
Bluebird1977 wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
Bluebird1977 wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Ebbw Blue wrote:No I will not welcome him back. People need to remember the amount of debt we are carrying is down to Tan.


Debt which is all owed to him :roll: and is not going anywhere. Also don't forget he has written off £20m of that debt and will one day do the same with the rest.

Oh yea just like we was going to be debt free within months after turning red promise :laughing5:


As for the posts about new players from some people hes only trying to recoup his money back he aint signing players for us is he :bluescarf:

Plenty of promises but not much sign of any big reduction in the debts yet. Be interesting to see what the future holds.


The future holds more of this id guess.......until he finally leaves and the debt he has made much much bigger will be still owed :thumbup:

What Tan has said...
“It was intended for Vincent Tan to then transfer the debts due to him into equity and drive revenues through aggressive marketing.”

May 11, 2012
Open letter from (former chairman) Dato Chan Tien Ghee after initial opposition to the rebrand, “We are talking to Sam Hammam to try and resolve the Langston issue.
“We are days away from an agreement and then we can convert all the loans to equity.”

July 22, 2013
“We are in the process of turning loans into equity. We are talking to shareholders now and after that I will convert my loan into equity. It will take the club to almost debt-free, probably in the next couple of months, God willing.”
Vincent Tan.

August 15, 2013
“Mr Tan gave some cultural, but no commercial reasons for the rebrand and told us that there would be no debt to equity conversion until after the settlement of the current legal dispute with the former manager (Malky Mackay).”
Minutes of a Cardiff City Supporters Trust meeting.

March 19, 2014 - “I will convert some of my debt to equity, but not all because the amount is very big. The club owes me maybe £120m and I put in £140m or £150m. Maybe I will convert £50m and leave £100m debt.”


All whats said is a FACT and said by TAN himself.
I could add another 5-7 promises in there on other dates to the present date from this so called 8million a year conversion on the debt to when the malky issue was resolved it will be done but whats the point people will still believe the spin year on year it summed up by keith in a few words below...

Trust board member and director of international accountancy firm Mazars, Keith Morgan, told BBC Sport Wales that Tan's clearing of the third-party debts had done little to achieve this.
"It's like moving the deckchairs on the Titanic," said Morgan.
"It's not reducing the liabilities on the business, just changes to who it's owed.
"The club still can't afford to pay back the money it owes.
"He [Tan] needs to fulfil his promise to convert all his loans into shares."



Someone people have short memories



wasnt aware of the early quotes in that list...
but have to say if Tan had converted all debt to equity at those points...we would still be in huge debt as the bulk of our debt was run up at a later date...
as for the moving the deck chairs on the Titanic remark..wow.
an ACCOUNTANT doesnt see much difference in aman who is majority shareholder in a company owing himself money or owing 3rd parties including HMRC money ..
well id be quite happy to be on the Titanic if it meant all my debts were to myself....
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Igovernor » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:27 am

Exactly :thumbup:
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Steve Zodiak » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:28 am

dogfound wrote:
nubbsy wrote:
Bluebird1977 wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
Bluebird1977 wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Ebbw Blue wrote:No I will not welcome him back. People need to remember the amount of debt we are carrying is down to Tan.


Debt which is all owed to him :roll: and is not going anywhere. Also don't forget he has written off £20m of that debt and will one day do the same with the rest.

Oh yea just like we was going to be debt free within months after turning red promise :laughing5:


As for the posts about new players from some people hes only trying to recoup his money back he aint signing players for us is he :bluescarf:

Plenty of promises but not much sign of any big reduction in the debts yet. Be interesting to see what the future holds.


The future holds more of this id guess.......until he finally leaves and the debt he has made much much bigger will be still owed :thumbup:

What Tan has said...
“It was intended for Vincent Tan to then transfer the debts due to him into equity and drive revenues through aggressive marketing.”

May 11, 2012
Open letter from (former chairman) Dato Chan Tien Ghee after initial opposition to the rebrand, “We are talking to Sam Hammam to try and resolve the Langston issue.
“We are days away from an agreement and then we can convert all the loans to equity.”

July 22, 2013
“We are in the process of turning loans into equity. We are talking to shareholders now and after that I will convert my loan into equity. It will take the club to almost debt-free, probably in the next couple of months, God willing.”
Vincent Tan.

August 15, 2013
“Mr Tan gave some cultural, but no commercial reasons for the rebrand and told us that there would be no debt to equity conversion until after the settlement of the current legal dispute with the former manager (Malky Mackay).”
Minutes of a Cardiff City Supporters Trust meeting.

March 19, 2014 - “I will convert some of my debt to equity, but not all because the amount is very big. The club owes me maybe £120m and I put in £140m or £150m. Maybe I will convert £50m and leave £100m debt.”


All whats said is a FACT and said by TAN himself.
I could add another 5-7 promises in there on other dates to the present date from this so called 8million a year conversion on the debt to when the malky issue was resolved it will be done but whats the point people will still believe the spin year on year it summed up by keith in a few words below...

Trust board member and director of international accountancy firm Mazars, Keith Morgan, told BBC Sport Wales that Tan's clearing of the third-party debts had done little to achieve this.
"It's like moving the deckchairs on the Titanic," said Morgan.
"It's not reducing the liabilities on the business, just changes to who it's owed.
"The club still can't afford to pay back the money it owes.
"He [Tan] needs to fulfil his promise to convert all his loans into shares."



Someone people have short memories



wasnt aware of the early quotes in that list...
but have to say if Tan had converted all debt to equity at those points...we would still be in huge debt as the bulk of our debt was run up at a later date...
as for the moving the deck chairs on the Titanic remark..wow.
an ACCOUNTANT doesnt see much difference in aman who is majority shareholder in a company owing himself money or owing 3rd parties including HMRC money ..
well id be quite happy to be on the Titanic if it meant all my debts were to myself....

A large chunk of the debt is owed by Cardiff City which is a limited company owned by Cardiff City Holdings Ltd. Shareholders have a limited liability which used to be in my days (may have changed) linked to the number of shares held multiplied by todays share price. I am sure that there are assets that could be used to repay some of the debts if Tan decided to pull the plug on this company. I am not up to date on the ins and outs of Limited Company law but I am sure somebody will be able to explain in more detail, and correct me if I am completely out of touch with any changes since I was last involved over ten years ago.
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:30 am

dogfound wrote:

wasnt aware of the early quotes in that list...
but have to say if Tan had converted all debt to equity at those points...we would still be in huge debt as the bulk of our debt was run up at a later date...
as for the moving the deck chairs on the Titanic remark..wow.
an ACCOUNTANT doesnt see much difference in aman who is majority shareholder in a company owing himself money or owing 3rd parties including HMRC money ..
well id be quite happy to be on the Titanic if it meant all my debts were to myself....


I agree with you because to me it is a simple case that the money is owed to VT who owns the club. But Keith Morgan has previously explained why this does matter from an accountancy position. Whilst CCFC is mostly owned by VT it is still an entity in it's own right and it DOES owe money to VT. It is a bit like owing money to your Mum and Dad rather than a bank.

Every year the club has to produce it's accounts and the balance sheet will show a large deficit whilst the debt still exists. This matters because the club cannot be considered as a viable business whilst it carries so much debt and certainly potential new buyers would be put off.

Of course if the status quo continues then in reality it doesn't make much difference. But to give one scenario VT is in his mid 60's and what happens if he died? The debt would form part of his estate and in theory the executors of his will could demand repayment meaning CCFC being asset stripped or liquidated. So whilst in the very short term the debt doesn't seem to matter for our long term future it would be much better if the situation was resolved.
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:45 am

Steve Zodiak wrote:A large chunk of the debt is owed by Cardiff City which is a limited company owned by Cardiff City Holdings Ltd. Shareholders have a limited liability which used to be in my days (may have changed) linked to the number of shares held multiplied by todays share price. I am sure that there are assets that could be used to repay some of the debts if Tan decided to pull the plug on this company. I am not up to date on the ins and outs of Limited Company law but I am sure somebody will be able to explain in more detail, and correct me if I am completely out of touch with any changes since I was last involved over ten years ago.


You have most of it right but the Limited liability wouldn't apply in this situation as CCFC owes the money to VT who in turn owns the club. VT has charges secured against nearly all of the club property to cover his loans, unlike Sam Hammam who famously had an unsecured loan for £24m.

The Limited Liability would apply if CCFC owned money to a third party and VT's liability to pay those debts would be limited to the value of the shares he held in the company. Generally when a company has legal action taken against it and it ends up in the High Court facing a winding up order those shares would be worth zilch hence VT wouldn't be personally liable for those debts, they would be paid by liquidating any uncharged property owned by CCFC.
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Steve Zodiak » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:51 am

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:A large chunk of the debt is owed by Cardiff City which is a limited company owned by Cardiff City Holdings Ltd. Shareholders have a limited liability which used to be in my days (may have changed) linked to the number of shares held multiplied by todays share price. I am sure that there are assets that could be used to repay some of the debts if Tan decided to pull the plug on this company. I am not up to date on the ins and outs of Limited Company law but I am sure somebody will be able to explain in more detail, and correct me if I am completely out of touch with any changes since I was last involved over ten years ago.


You have most of it right but the Limited liability wouldn't apply in this situation as CCFC owes the money to VT who in turn owns the club. VT has charges secured against nearly all of the club property to cover his loans, unlike Sam Hammam who famously had an unsecured loan for £24m.

The Limited Liability would apply if CCFC owned money to a third party and VT's liability to pay those debts would be limited to the value of the shares he held in the company. Generally when a company has legal action taken against it and it ends up in the High Court facing a winding up order those shares would be worth zilch hence VT wouldn't be personally liable for those debts, they would be paid by liquidating any uncharged property owned by CCFC.

Thank you Tony. One final question. What would happen in the event of voluntary liquidation, which seems to be popular in this day and age. I know owners of limited companies sometimes do this in an attempt to reduce their losses, and then promptly open another business with a similar name. I know this is a vague scenario, but wondered what would happen in the event of Tan getting bored of throwing more money into the club and looking to recoup as much as possible.
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Igovernor » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:56 am

I have just been checking the accounts for Cardiff City holdings limited, and the only creditors are owed approx £8k so all the money owed is to Cardiff City Football club which is owned by Vincent Tan. :thumbup:
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby blueheaven » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:11 am

Fascinating subject this and a lot of different opinions, personally having supported City nearly 50 years I hated the Red rebrand but even if we had played in pink frilly shirts I would have continued to support Cardiff CIty FC. I loved the club too much to walk away and always felt and told others we would one day return to Blue.

I totally understand and respect the decision of others who decided to walk and amongst them were friends of mine some who have never returned choosing to play golf on a Saturday instead. Personally I just continued to wear Blue and turn up and chant Bluebirds. I was never once threatened by the so called Red Brigade and the only time I felt uncomfortable was the Brighton game and the night of the 'red scarves' that was horrible like walking into Anfield or Old Trafford and it was the only time I considered walking away.

Again though I just loved the Club too much and couldn't do it I don't love the Chairman (Never mind who it is) I don't love the Manager (Although I had much affection for Burrows, May and now Warnock) and I don't love the players the vast majority who are just here for the money.

I do however support the Club at that means whoever is in the dug out and whoever puts on the Blue Shirt (Or whatever colour we might play in) Chairmen and Boards of Directors come and go as do Managers and Players the only consistent factors are the loyal fans who are there until the end.

Tan made a massive and financially costly mistake with the rebrand but has many have said we did have a choice and personally I felt there was a need for compromise. He did however make it clear that there was no or minimal investment in Blue and 100 million if the rebrand was accepted.

We didn't actually get a vote in the matter and if we had it would have been interesting to see what the split would have been. I don't go with the so called Fan Leaders accepting the Red so it went ahead who are these so called Fans Leaders (This is a rhetorical question I know the names some are even friends) because they don't represent me or I suspect the majority of fans?

The fact is the rebrand was a disaster but the time for a mass protest was the first home game of the Championship when we played Huddersfield and every home game thereafter but that simply didn't happen. I suspect most fans like myself felt powerless and just got on with supporting Malky and the players on the pitch many chose to wear red personally like many others I continued to wear Blue.

When we got promoted that night against Charlton, Tan was on the pitch taking the accolades with the players when he came over to the touchline at the Ninian Stand I was singing along with many others 'We will always be Blue' and Tan scurried away from our section.

Do I hate Tan the answer is no there are far more important things to hate, like the bastards who carried out the atrocities in Manchester and London! Would i welcome Tan back again the answer is no but thats not my decision and I certainly wouldn't boo him if he did return especially If you look at where we are at the moment.

I think Tan knows he has made huge mistakes the Rebrand and the appointment of Solskjaer being the worse, personally I think if he publicly admitted these mistakes it would go a long way to healing the rifts that still exist. However that is not the Malaysian way as an apology is seen has a loss of face.

It is time to move on and look to the future lets not forget the past and lets learn from our mistakes and do our best to ensure nothing like the rebrand ever happens again. We now have a top class experienced Manager who has assembled an exciting looking squad and let's hope we can give it a real go again this year with hopefully fans returning and promotion in BLUE how good would that be? :old: :bluescarf: :bluebird:
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:48 pm

Steve Zodiak wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:A large chunk of the debt is owed by Cardiff City which is a limited company owned by Cardiff City Holdings Ltd. Shareholders have a limited liability which used to be in my days (may have changed) linked to the number of shares held multiplied by todays share price. I am sure that there are assets that could be used to repay some of the debts if Tan decided to pull the plug on this company. I am not up to date on the ins and outs of Limited Company law but I am sure somebody will be able to explain in more detail, and correct me if I am completely out of touch with any changes since I was last involved over ten years ago.


You have most of it right but the Limited liability wouldn't apply in this situation as CCFC owes the money to VT who in turn owns the club. VT has charges secured against nearly all of the club property to cover his loans, unlike Sam Hammam who famously had an unsecured loan for £24m.

The Limited Liability would apply if CCFC owned money to a third party and VT's liability to pay those debts would be limited to the value of the shares he held in the company. Generally when a company has legal action taken against it and it ends up in the High Court facing a winding up order those shares would be worth zilch hence VT wouldn't be personally liable for those debts, they would be paid by liquidating any uncharged property owned by CCFC.

Thank you Tony. One final question. What would happen in the event of voluntary liquidation, which seems to be popular in this day and age. I know owners of limited companies sometimes do this in an attempt to reduce their losses, and then promptly open another business with a similar name. I know this is a vague scenario, but wondered what would happen in the event of Tan getting bored of throwing more money into the club and looking to recoup as much as possible.


In theory he doesn't need to put the club in administration or liquidation as he has first charge on most of the clubs assets e.g. season ticket monies, transfer fees, training equipment, club property (not sure about the stadium I'm sure the council put a clause in when it was built). So he could simply asset strip and sell what's left for a nominal amount (£1) if he has had enough of putting cash in and wanted out.

Those who slag him off don't realise that he is keeping us afloat out of his own pocket and doing it in a very benevolent way. I would like him to convert the debt to equity but he has been clear this won't fully happen until 2021.
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Steve Zodiak » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:42 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:A large chunk of the debt is owed by Cardiff City which is a limited company owned by Cardiff City Holdings Ltd. Shareholders have a limited liability which used to be in my days (may have changed) linked to the number of shares held multiplied by todays share price. I am sure that there are assets that could be used to repay some of the debts if Tan decided to pull the plug on this company. I am not up to date on the ins and outs of Limited Company law but I am sure somebody will be able to explain in more detail, and correct me if I am completely out of touch with any changes since I was last involved over ten years ago.


You have most of it right but the Limited liability wouldn't apply in this situation as CCFC owes the money to VT who in turn owns the club. VT has charges secured against nearly all of the club property to cover his loans, unlike Sam Hammam who famously had an unsecured loan for £24m.

The Limited Liability would apply if CCFC owned money to a third party and VT's liability to pay those debts would be limited to the value of the shares he held in the company. Generally when a company has legal action taken against it and it ends up in the High Court facing a winding up order those shares would be worth zilch hence VT wouldn't be personally liable for those debts, they would be paid by liquidating any uncharged property owned by CCFC.

Thank you Tony. One final question. What would happen in the event of voluntary liquidation, which seems to be popular in this day and age. I know owners of limited companies sometimes do this in an attempt to reduce their losses, and then promptly open another business with a similar name. I know this is a vague scenario, but wondered what would happen in the event of Tan getting bored of throwing more money into the club and looking to recoup as much as possible.


In theory he doesn't need to put the club in administration or liquidation as he has first charge on most of the clubs assets e.g. season ticket monies, transfer fees, training equipment, club property (not sure about the stadium I'm sure the council put a clause in when it was built). So he could simply asset strip and sell what's left for a nominal amount (£1) if he has had enough of putting cash in and wanted out.

Those who slag him off don't realise that he is keeping us afloat out of his own pocket and doing it in a very benevolent way. I would like him to convert the debt to equity but he has been clear this won't fully happen until 2021.

Cheers Tony. He appears to be someone who keeps his word so lets hope for a favourable outcome when his time here is done.
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby Sneggyblubird » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:09 pm

Love him or loath him we are in a good place right now thanks to his financial clout.Any verbal dissing now at a match would be like sticking a pin in your own eye.He knows where he stands now.
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Re: TIME FOR TAN TO RETURN????

Postby brickyblue » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:46 pm

My worst years supporting city was the rebrand years I hated it to my core .
Promotion was horrible as was the prem I still went to games but I was holding on only because I was fighting for my old club back .
My worst ever game was the red scarf night felt sick how many city fans wore them .

Also in the early days of the rebrand many city fans most in fact excepted it hole hearted. It's only groups that campaigned that got the tide to turn back to blue.

I think city half a small hard core fan base the rest are just followers of what every one else is doing .
The amount of times I heard red is fine tans investing 100 mill for red so what about the colours. It drive me to near madness.

The true fans from The start got us back to blue not the followers and thank God because I was losing it with fellow fans.
The divide was cruel on us .
39 years a fan this was my worst time it wasn't all tand fault people Tony Jefferies Vince elm going on tv saying yea it's ok it's what city fans want the so called fans reps was also sickening.
Anyway Tabs fault yes but it wasn't all his fault are own fans persuaded him the majority of city fans wanted it and at the time was probably right.
The true fans one in the end.

As for fan coming back he's changed it all back never forgive or forget but move on yes for city's sake not for anything else.
So back in blue with a bluebird badge is what I wanted back he have it back so as far as I'm concerned he should come back yes.
Only in a blue city top
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