UPDATED " Debt to equity - where are we now? "

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UPDATED " Debt to equity - where are we now? "

Postby davids » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:12 pm

Thanks to Since 62 aka Keith Morgan Our Resident Accountant :bluebird:


" UPDATED "

The annual conversions of £8m a season have been taking place , but the main conversion of £68m pledged in February 2016 has not yet happened. This is an ongoing topic on the agenda for meetings between the club board and the Trust.

In terms of the overall club financial position , I have no more specific information than anyone else outside the club`s senior management. However , clearly there have been big ongoing efforts to significantly reduce the wage bill burden both last season (which will be reflected in the May 2017 accounts when they are published) and for the current season.

A major financial issue that the club faces , and which it is seeking to address, is the fact that this current season is the last one in which it will benefit from "parachute" payments , so a loss of income of in the range £10m to £15m (depending on who gets promoted/relegated etc) will have to be planned and budgeted for in season 2018/19.








Debt to equity - where are we now?


Seeing Vincent Tan at the game yesterday reminded me that it's been quite some time since we heard anything about the promised reduction of debt/conversion to equity by the owner.

Does anyone know where we are with these plans exactly at the moment? I am not wanting to criticise or start another thread having a go at the club or the owner but I'm genuinely interested in where we are as far as those often stated aims are concerned.

The last I seem to remember is there being some difficulties with the Malaysian government authorising the release of funding for projects outside the country (or something like that!) and also a potential problem with Financial Fair Play which meant that only a certain amount of debt can be reduced within a certain time scale.

There was talk at one time of the club being almost completely debt free within about three years but there seems to have been little or no progress on this recently, at least none that has been made public.

Could somebody with a bit of financial knowledge (Keith Morgan perhaps if you're reading Keith :thumbup: ) explain where we are at the moment financially and whether there is any current indication that the headline debt figures are being reduced or if any reduction is imminent.
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UPDATED " Debt to equity - where are we now? "

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Re: " Debt to equity - where are we now? "

Postby Dahboy » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:27 pm

I'll tell you where we are top of the league that's where. leave all the financial stuff to the club ;)
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Re: " Debt to equity - where are we now? "

Postby davids » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:20 pm

Dahboy wrote:I'll tell you where we are top of the league that's where. leave all the financial stuff to the club ;)


Not quite the reply I was looking for but you are factually correct :thumbup:
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Re: " Debt to equity - where are we now? "

Postby pembroke allan » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:32 pm

It's going ahead but last report we had on it things were going slow due to Malaysian financial system being slow working! Guess still got another 3yrs maybe 4yrs before debt to equity complete under tans plan.
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Re: " Debt to equity - where are we now? "

Postby ccfcsince1962 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:44 am

davids wrote:Debt to equity - where are we now?


Seeing Vincent Tan at the game yesterday reminded me that it's been quite some time since we heard anything about the promised reduction of debt/conversion to equity by the owner.

Does anyone know where we are with these plans exactly at the moment? I am not wanting to criticise or start another thread having a go at the club or the owner but I'm genuinely interested in where we are as far as those often stated aims are concerned.

The last I seem to remember is there being some difficulties with the Malaysian government authorising the release of funding for projects outside the country (or something like that!) and also a potential problem with Financial Fair Play which meant that only a certain amount of debt can be reduced within a certain time scale.

There was talk at one time of the club being almost completely debt free within about three years but there seems to have been little or no progress on this recently, at least none that has been made public.

Could somebody with a bit of financial knowledge (Keith Morgan perhaps if you're reading Keith :thumbup: ) explain where we are at the moment financially and whether there is any current indication that the headline debt figures are being reduced or if any reduction is imminent.


The annual conversions of £8m a season have been taking place , but the main conversion of £68m pledged in February 2016 has not yet happened. This is an ongoing topic on the agenda for meetings between the club board and the Trust.

In terms of the overall club financial position , I have no more specific information than anyone else outside the club`s senior management. However , clearly there have been big ongoing efforts to significantly reduce the wage bill burden both last season (which will be reflected in the May 2017 accounts when they are published) and for the current season.

A major financial issue that the club faces , and which it is seeking to address, is the fact that this current season is the last one in which it will benefit from "parachute" payments , so a loss of income of in the range £10m to £15m (depending on who gets promoted/relegated etc) will have to be planned and budgeted for in season 2018/19.
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Re: " Debt to equity - where are we now? "

Postby davids » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:22 am

ccfcsince1962 wrote:
davids wrote:Debt to equity - where are we now?


Seeing Vincent Tan at the game yesterday reminded me that it's been quite some time since we heard anything about the promised reduction of debt/conversion to equity by the owner.

Does anyone know where we are with these plans exactly at the moment? I am not wanting to criticise or start another thread having a go at the club or the owner but I'm genuinely interested in where we are as far as those often stated aims are concerned.

The last I seem to remember is there being some difficulties with the Malaysian government authorising the release of funding for projects outside the country (or something like that!) and also a potential problem with Financial Fair Play which meant that only a certain amount of debt can be reduced within a certain time scale.

There was talk at one time of the club being almost completely debt free within about three years but there seems to have been little or no progress on this recently, at least none that has been made public.

Could somebody with a bit of financial knowledge (Keith Morgan perhaps if you're reading Keith :thumbup: ) explain where we are at the moment financially and whether there is any current indication that the headline debt figures are being reduced or if any reduction is imminent.


The annual conversions of £8m a season have been taking place , but the main conversion of £68m pledged in February 2016 has not yet happened. This is an ongoing topic on the agenda for meetings between the club board and the Trust.

In terms of the overall club financial position , I have no more specific information than anyone else outside the club`s senior management. However , clearly there have been big ongoing efforts to significantly reduce the wage bill burden both last season (which will be reflected in the May 2017 accounts when they are published) and for the current season.

A major financial issue that the club faces , and which it is seeking to address, is the fact that this current season is the last one in which it will benefit from "parachute" payments , so a loss of income of in the range £10m to £15m (depending on who gets promoted/relegated etc) will have to be planned and budgeted for in season 2018/19.


Thank you - much appreciated! :thumbup:
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Re: UPDATED " Debt to equity - where are we now? "

Postby Forever Blue » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:07 pm

Thanks Keith for Updating everyone :thumbright: :bluebird:
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Re: UPDATED " Debt to equity - where are we now? "

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:19 pm

Just taking a complete guess at this I would think it has something to do with tax? In theory VT could claim the £68m against his tax bill and pay much less into the Malaysian Treasury?

As for the £8m per season I'm a little concerned that whilst this is welcome it is only covering new debt which is being caused by the club losing up to around £1m per month.
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Re: UPDATED " Debt to equity - where are we now? "

Postby wez1927 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:08 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:Just taking a complete guess at this I would think it has something to do with tax? In theory VT could claim the £68m against his tax bill and pay much less into the Malaysian Treasury?

As for the £8m per season I'm a little concerned that whilst this is welcome it is only covering new debt which is being caused by the club losing up to around £1m per month.

Are we losing 1m a month now ? That was branded about 3-4 years ago but are we now ?
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Re: UPDATED " Debt to equity - where are we now? "

Postby Steve Zodiak » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:29 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:Just taking a complete guess at this I would think it has something to do with tax? In theory VT could claim the £68m against his tax bill and pay much less into the Malaysian Treasury?

As for the £8m per season I'm a little concerned that whilst this is welcome it is only covering new debt which is being caused by the club losing up to around £1m per month.

I was thinking along the same lines. If the plan is converting £8m per season, after running costs are taken into account Mr Tan would be unlikely to get the club debt free in his lifetime. That is why if we start selling players and the right offers come in, I don't see much of that money being available to re-invest. The only people who really know what is happening are those running the club, but I think the next set of accounts will be interesting, and possibly the one after that when we no longer have any parachute payments. Still, it's not our problem, and as long as our club remains solvent I will just enjoy the usual unpredictable ride.
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