Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:49 pm
Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:14 pm
Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:19 pm
Cardiffblue92 wrote:For the last few years much has been made about the fact there still isn't an openly gay football player in any team in any of the top 4 divisions of league football. This is down to a number of factors we can debate about all day, but what is clear is the need for more support for gay footballers and fans in the sport.
I'm 25, I'm gay and have been a Cardiff supporter for as long as I can remember. In this time I haven't met a single LGBT Cardiff football fan that I know of. Whilst of course I go to to games to support my team, I feel that more needs to be done to make fellow LGBT fans feel more at home at games and to breakdown the 'lad culture' that can often create a atmosphere of fear with LGBT people that prevents them from coming out and being themselves. This in turn will hopefully resonate with the players and will hopefully create a culture of acceptance within the game and make the club even more accepting than it already is.
I wanted to write this post to see how my fellow fans would receive/react to an LGBT fan group at Cardiff, or something similar that would help to create that culture of acceptance within the game. Would it be something you would participate in? Do you think it would be beneficial to you as a fan? How do you feel about homophobia in football? Have you heard or received any homophobic abuse whilst at a Cardiff game? The majority of Premier League clubs now have LGBT groups, with an increasing number of football league teams creating their own. Hopefully this post will create a bit of a discussion! At the end of the day, we're all here to support the team we love and creating an even more welcoming atmosphere will only serve to benefit the fans and the team itself, in my opinion...let me know what you think!
Cheers guys.
Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:33 pm
Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:36 pm
Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:44 pm
Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:45 pm
Double G wrote:isnt loic damour in a relationship with a man ? sure he was open about it
Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:46 pm
Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:56 pm
Steve Zodiak wrote:I'm the same as Davids. Personally I don't give a hoot whether you are hetrosexual. bisexual, gay, lesbian, transexual, black, white, brown, orange or anything else. I go to watch the football, not discuss someone's sexual preferences. Fans are fans as far as I'm concerned, and don't see the need for anyone to want to stand up and say look at me, I'm straight or gay or whatever. I have nothing against anyone whoever and whatever they are, and will happily discuss football with anybody who wants to talk to me. Would'nt be interested in LGBT any more than I would be interested in a cooking group if I am going to watch a match. That's my personal opinion, and I'm sure people will feel the complete opposite to me, and that is fair enough. I like to think I respect everyone and their opinions, however different they are to mine.
Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:00 pm
nubbsy wrote:Excuse me for being blunt, but why should anyone's sexuality come into place at a football game?
Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:04 pm
Cardiffblue92 wrote:Steve Zodiak wrote:I'm the same as Davids. Personally I don't give a hoot whether you are hetrosexual. bisexual, gay, lesbian, transexual, black, white, brown, orange or anything else. I go to watch the football, not discuss someone's sexual preferences. Fans are fans as far as I'm concerned, and don't see the need for anyone to want to stand up and say look at me, I'm straight or gay or whatever. I have nothing against anyone whoever and whatever they are, and will happily discuss football with anybody who wants to talk to me. Would'nt be interested in LGBT any more than I would be interested in a cooking group if I am going to watch a match. That's my personal opinion, and I'm sure people will feel the complete opposite to me, and that is fair enough. I like to think I respect everyone and their opinions, however different they are to mine.
Of course, I think the vast majority of Cardiff fans align with that viewpoint. But just to be clear, I'm absolutely not suggesting it as an opportunity to seek attention. As I've said in an ideal world we wouldn't need to talk about this issue, but I feel like the lad culture within the game is preventing fans from feeling comfortable with themselves at the game. I don't go to Cardiff games to talk about my sexuality either, I want to watch my team play, but knowing that I won't hear an abusive chant or a homophobic slur would make me enjoy the game much more...and also knowing that such things would be appropriately dealt with by stewards would be even better. It's more about changing attitudes towards the issue and I believe that needs to come from the top, down.
Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:15 pm
I think you are right about the lad culture, but I can't say I've heard too much in the way of homophobic comments when I attend games. I think everyone is targeted for a bit of abuse from time to time at these games, and I know that being a City fan I am also referred to by fans of other clubs as a sheepshagger. I don't particularly have a problem with that, even though I have'nt shagged a sheep for well over a month now. As far as I'm concerned, we are all the same, members of the human race who follow football.
Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:29 pm
Cardiffblue92 wrote:I think you are right about the lad culture, but I can't say I've heard too much in the way of homophobic comments when I attend games. I think everyone is targeted for a bit of abuse from time to time at these games, and I know that being a City fan I am also referred to by fans of other clubs as a sheepshagger. I don't particularly have a problem with that, even though I have'nt shagged a sheep for well over a month now. As far as I'm concerned, we are all the same, members of the human race who follow football.
I do think it's idealistic to think like that though...being called a sheepshagger isn't the same as being called a 'f**got'. For example, racial abuse at football games has been much more effectively stamped out in the last few years, yet homophobic abuse doesn't have anywhere near the same level of consequence. The small minority of football fans who do want to chant racist abuse do so knowing that they will likely face an eviction from the stadium and a significant ban from the club, why isn't this the same for someone shouting a homophobic slur?
Simply saying we're all the same regardless of race, gender, sexuality etc, is something we all like to hear, but in my view it turns a blind eye to this issue unfortunately.
Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:31 pm
Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:36 pm
Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:40 pm
I appreciate we have differing points of view, and respect yours. As far as I am concerned, we are all the same regardless of race or gender. I don't have a problem with anyone, and have friends who have different colour skin to me, and also do not share the same sexual preference as I do. That does not make me or them any less human than anyone else. I have been brought up to treat everyone with the same respect and to be courteous to everyone. Possibly that is an outdated way to be brought up but I can't change what I am or how I was taught to respect everybody.
Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:44 pm
Lengee wrote:I wrote a thread a while back after the Gareth Thomas programme. It makes no difference to me wherher you are LBGT or hetrosexual.
If you think you need or want an LGBT group then maybe this forum should 'officially ' support the view that race religion sexual orientation etc mAkes no difference ALL CITY FANS WELCOME.
Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:05 pm
Cardiffblue92 wrote:I appreciate we have differing points of view, and respect yours. As far as I am concerned, we are all the same regardless of race or gender. I don't have a problem with anyone, and have friends who have different colour skin to me, and also do not share the same sexual preference as I do. That does not make me or them any less human than anyone else. I have been brought up to treat everyone with the same respect and to be courteous to everyone. Possibly that is an outdated way to be brought up but I can't change what I am or how I was taught to respect everybody.
Absolutely and please don't think I'm disputing that! My main point is that it's got to the stage now where actions speak louder than words and more needs to be done to stamp out homophobia in the game and make sure fans and players alike can enjoy football regardless of their sexual orientation. The fact that not a single player, coach or manager is openly gay in any of the top four divisions of football in the country says it all for me and when the Chairman of the FA says he wouldn't encourage players to come out...that makes me worry!
Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:32 pm
Cardiffblue92 wrote:I appreciate we have differing points of view, and respect yours. As far as I am concerned, we are all the same regardless of race or gender. I don't have a problem with anyone, and have friends who have different colour skin to me, and also do not share the same sexual preference as I do. That does not make me or them any less human than anyone else. I have been brought up to treat everyone with the same respect and to be courteous to everyone. Possibly that is an outdated way to be brought up but I can't change what I am or how I was taught to respect everybody.
Absolutely and please don't think I'm disputing that! My main point is that it's got to the stage now where actions speak louder than words and more needs to be done to stamp out homophobia in the game and make sure fans and players alike can enjoy football regardless of their sexual orientation. The fact that not a single player, coach or manager is openly gay in any of the top four divisions of football in the country says it all for me and when the Chairman of the FA says he wouldn't encourage players to come out...that makes me worry!
Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:32 pm
I see your point but how many of them a openly hetrosexual. When I see a player on the pitch I have no idea what they are as I neither know nor am I interested in whether they are gay, transvestite, bisexual or whatever. When a player is interviewed he does'nt start off the interview by stating he is openly hetrosexual or of any other persuasion. Surely it does'nt matter what he is. If he is playing for us, as long as he is a good football player he can come from another planet as far as I am concerned. If certain fans are abusing people and are bringing homophobia into the game, I agree that needs to be stamped out.
Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:42 pm
Still unsure of what you believe the remedy is ?
Lets take US baseball. I have been to AAA minor league and major league games and there is no chanting or lad culture but there are no openly gay professional baseball players either. Why's that ?
i am a 50 year old, white, greying, working class, over weight heterosexual and i believe that society fully accepts and integrates LBGT people.
Now those immature loud, drunk on the cusp of causing trouble 20 somethings hanging around the bar are better left alone.
Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:48 pm
Cardiffblue92 wrote:Still unsure of what you believe the remedy is ?
Lets take US baseball. I have been to AAA minor league and major league games and there is no chanting or lad culture but there are no openly gay professional baseball players either. Why's that ?
i am a 50 year old, white, greying, working class, over weight heterosexual and i believe that society fully accepts and integrates LBGT people.
Now those immature loud, drunk on the cusp of causing trouble 20 somethings hanging around the bar are better left alone.
I don't have the answer to the problem, but I think the first port of call is to actually recognise it as a problem. I agree that from a legal point of view, LGBT people are pretty much on exactly the same level as everyone else now. To me it's about changing social attitudes, which in time will come. However football seems to be one of the few sectors of society where social attitudes towards LGBT people are a fair few years behind other sectors. I'm not saying all football fans are homophobic...far from it! But the facts are the facts...there are closeted gay footballers and fans out there that are facing scrutiny if they come out and something needs to be done to change that.
Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:05 pm
Perhaps its because i am not gay, but whats the obsession with coming out. Isn't this something you do with those close to you, not a 100 million judgemental strangers?
Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:40 pm
Cardiffblue92 wrote:Perhaps its because i am not gay, but whats the obsession with coming out. Isn't this something you do with those close to you, not a 100 million judgemental strangers?
If you were a closeted gay man hearing your mates say "how could it be natural for men to love other men, isn't it disgusting", or hear your coach say "don't pass the ball like a f***ing f****ot", or hear your fans shout "you're a f***ing queer"...how would you react? It's clear that people like that do not approve of homosexuality...would you confront them about it? Think about it, if you did could there be a chance your teammates would turn on you, your coach would drop you from the team? Absolutely. This is why players and fans are scared to come out. It's not because we want to seek attention its because we want to be accepted for who we are. Once society changes it's attitudes towards the issue...hopefully one day there would be no need to actually come out as people would just get on with life safe in the knowledge they wouldn't be scrutinised for their sexuality...currently that is not the case.
Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:51 pm
llan bluebird wrote:Cardiffblue92 wrote:Perhaps its because i am not gay, but whats the obsession with coming out. Isn't this something you do with those close to you, not a 100 million judgemental strangers?
If you were a closeted gay man hearing your mates say "how could it be natural for men to love other men, isn't it disgusting", or hear your coach say "don't pass the ball like a f***ing f****ot", or hear your fans shout "you're a f***ing queer"...how would you react? It's clear that people like that do not approve of homosexuality...would you confront them about it? Think about it, if you did could there be a chance your teammates would turn on you, your coach would drop you from the team? Absolutely. This is why players and fans are scared to come out. It's not because we want to seek attention its because we want to be accepted for who we are. Once society changes it's attitudes towards the issue...hopefully one day there would be no need to actually come out as people would just get on with life safe in the knowledge they wouldn't be scrutinised for their sexuality...currently that is not the case.
To my knowledge most of the worlds major religions do not approve of homosexuality (I may be wrong but Catholics & Muslims don't) so we have a long way to go. But again to my knowledge there is nobody down the city condoning homosexuality so we are half way there.
I deal with a lot of millennials and this need to be accepted and approved by everyone is totally unobtainable and stresses your generation out. Why do you give a fcuk what anybody else thinks or feels ?
I have a rule, I only listen to the opinions of those i personally respect, that is about 5 people.
I don't think we are going to get any professional footballer to publicly come out for a while unless its an elite player. They are all covered by individual contracts and its difficult to gain one. Look at the Ched Evans debate on here. The guy has been declared innocent, but i wouldn't offer him a contract because of all the media buzz it causes. Its an unwanted distraction.
Lets say Ched is the first openly gay footballer. Do you clap him when he comes on ? Do we boo him, what happens if he scores against us, do you cheer him in the middle of the Canton stand ? What happens if he scores and blows kisses to us (ala Robin Friday) whats our (crowd) response ?
The first couple will be a circus, so unless you are Ronaldo, Bale or Neymar i'd keep it quiet.
I'd say 99% would n't give a fcuk, but you'll never please that 1%
good debate though
Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:47 am
Double G wrote:isnt loic damour in a relationship with a man ? sure he was open about it
Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:53 am
Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:35 am
dogfound wrote:{ break down the lad culture } why cant you just go and enjoy the football and accept people for who they are without wanting to change things.?
this ladophobia does my head in.
Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:24 am
Cardiffblue92 wrote:dogfound wrote:{ break down the lad culture } why cant you just go and enjoy the football and accept people for who they are without wanting to change things.?
this ladophobia does my head in.
I do go to enjoy the football, but I think there's a clear lack of acceptance that there is a problem here. In fairness everyone on this post has been nothing but accepting of other people at the club and I feel this reflects the club as a whole. But in football generally there is a clear problem where LGBT players and other fans aren't comfortable being themselves and for some reason people don't want to accept that it is a problem. 'Lads' aren't the ones being discriminated against here.
Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:11 pm
Cardiffblue92 wrote:Thanks for your reply, don't worry, no offence taken, it's good to start talking about these issues! I mostly agree with you that in an ideal world there is no need for any specific fan group as everyone is accepted as equal. But I also think it ignores the problem, I'd hope you agree with me that across football as a whole, attitudes towards LGBT people are in the dark ages when compared with other sports. Of course, I'm not saying an LGBT fan group is the answer to the problem and I would love to live in a world where something like that isn't necessary, but for closeted fans I imagine it's very difficult for them to come out and be themselves within the game. Not just fans, right down from the academy up to coaching level. I think it's sadly a case where everyone has an opinion on the issue and most people want something to be done, but no one knows what!