A draw might have been better than a win

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A draw might have been better than a win

Postby maccydee » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:27 pm

Hear me out. Providing Serbia best Ireland and seemingly win the group.

Winning puts us above Ireland. That means should we beat Georgia we don't need a win v Ireland. Results against Moldova don't count anyway so would have no effect on our play off aspirations. Therefore only needing a draw v Ireland might have an effect on us. Had we needed a win would have pushed for it. Really we need 6 points from last 2 games for a chance of being one of the top 8 second placed teams.
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A draw might have been better than a win

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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby pembroke allan » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:46 pm

maccydee wrote:Hear me out. Providing Serbia best Ireland and seemingly win the group.

Winning puts us above Ireland. That means should we beat Georgia we don't need a win v Ireland. Results against Moldova don't count anyway so would have no effect on our play off aspirations. Therefore only needing a draw v Ireland might have an effect on us. Had we needed a win would have pushed for it. Really we need 6 points from last 2 games for a chance of being one of the top 8 second placed teams.



The Moldova results dont count until the 9 teams finished 2nd in group are decided! Then the results against the bottom teams are taken from the 2nd place teams in their respective groups, and the team with least points drop out leaving the 8 playoff teams :thumbup:
Ps think thats the way it is :laughing6:
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby maccydee » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:53 pm

pembroke allan wrote:
maccydee wrote:Hear me out. Providing Serbia best Ireland and seemingly win the group.

Winning puts us above Ireland. That means should we beat Georgia we don't need a win v Ireland. Results against Moldova don't count anyway so would have no effect on our play off aspirations. Therefore only needing a draw v Ireland might have an effect on us. Had we needed a win would have pushed for it. Really we need 6 points from last 2 games for a chance of being one of the top 8 second placed teams.



The Moldova results dont count until the 9 teams finished 2nd in group are decided! Then the results against the bottom teams are taken from the 2nd place teams in their respective groups, and the team with least points drop out leaving the 8 playoff teams :thumbup:
Ps think thats the way it is :laughing6:



We won't catch Serbia now. They only need 3 points to guarantee top.
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby Leon1927 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:06 pm

I'd rather win and have the momentum. I draw would have hurt our confidence.
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby dogfound » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:17 pm

maccydee wrote:Hear me out. Providing Serbia best Ireland and seemingly win the group.

Winning puts us above Ireland. That means should we beat Georgia we don't need a win v Ireland. Results against Moldova don't count anyway so would have no effect on our play off aspirations. Therefore only needing a draw v Ireland might have an effect on us. Had we needed a win would have pushed for it. Really we need 6 points from last 2 games for a chance of being one of the top 8 second placed teams.



we need the win mate.in fact 2 wins.
if we beat Georgia we will only need a draw to finish 2nd but i doubt it will be enough to be in the top 8 runners up.
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby Tonteg Bluebird » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:17 pm

Georgia drew against Austria tonight. I will surprised if we win out there to be honest, it's a horrible place to go and we were lucky not to lose to them at home. Whatever happens, the Ireland game will be the decider.

I totally disagree with the OP, I think us being ahead of Ireland is vital. It will mean Ireland will have to come at us and that will totally play into our hands. Ireland are a slow team, we will kill them on the break. We were by far the superior team out there and it was only the Taylor sending off that slightly swung the momentum to Ireland. But we proved that night we are the superior team and I will be expecting us to beat them.
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby RV Casual » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:35 pm

I can't see where you coming from here sorry mate.

We are currently joint bottom with Bosnia on 14 points, had we lost we would not even been 2nd never mind joint bottom of the 9.

Points on the board was vital, 4 from the last 6 might see us over the line now, its between us, Montenegro, Iceland and Slovakia/Slovenia/Scotland.

A draw tonight would have made it ten times harder.
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby Leon1927 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:36 pm

We have to win both games. A draw against Ireland won't be enough so I don't understand your logic?
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby maccydee » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:38 pm

Tonteg Bluebird wrote:Georgia drew against Austria tonight. I will surprised if we win out there to be honest, it's a horrible place to go and we were lucky not to lose to them at home. Whatever happens, the Ireland game will be the decider.

I totally disagree with the OP, I think us being ahead of Ireland is vital. It will mean Ireland will have to come at us and that will totally play into our hands. Ireland are a slow team, we will kill them on the break. We were by far the superior team out there and it was only the Taylor sending off that slightly swung the momentum to Ireland. But we proved that night we are the superior team and I will be expecting us to beat them.


Us both needing to win is preferable I suppose and we are far superior to Ireland. (Us for the points to finish one of the top 8 2nd place teams, Ireland to finish 2nd) and as the other chap said momentum is nice. To be fair if we don't beat Georgia we probably don't deserve to go to a World Cup.

I think a draw tonight might have meant a backlash against Georgia.
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby maccydee » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:40 pm

RV Casual wrote:I can't see where you coming from here sorry mate.

We are currently joint bottom with Bosnia on 14 points, had we lost we would not even been 2nd never mind joint bottom of the 9.

Points on the board was vital, 4 from the last 6 might see us over the line now, its between us, Montenegro, Iceland and Slovakia/Slovenia/Scotland.

A draw tonight would have made it ten times harder.


The Moldova results would be wiped as are all results against bottom sides. Tonight would have no bearing if we finish 2nd.
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby epping blue » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:43 pm

maccydee wrote:Hear me out. Providing Serbia best Ireland and seemingly win the group.

Winning puts us above Ireland. That means should we beat Georgia we don't need a win v Ireland. Results against Moldova don't count anyway so would have no effect on our play off aspirations. Therefore only needing a draw v Ireland might have an effect on us. Had we needed a win would have pushed for it. Really we need 6 points from last 2 games for a chance of being one of the top 8 second placed teams.



It counts in so far as the group is concerned. We have to finish 2nd to get in the play offs and for that it counts. Its then removed for our position in the play off league.
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby maccydee » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:44 pm

Leon1927 wrote:We have to win both games. A draw against Ireland won't be enough so I don't understand your logic?


Had we drawn tonight we would be a point behind Ireland. Providing we both win our next game we would still be a point behind Ireland going into our last game. This would mean we would set up needing to win Ireland would need a draw to secure 2nd place. I think that would be our best chance of getting a win. Now we are ahead of Ireland we will go into the last game (providing we both win our next fixtures) only needing a draw to secure 2nd place. That can be a hard spot to be in. Of course it could work for us in that Ireland would need to attack and might leave space.
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby GodfreyIngram'sLaughing » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:45 pm

I think we might be relying on Northern Ireland to lose to Germany at home and Norway away and then us winning both ours, which is a very tough ask on all counts ... just had a look at the fixtures and there are many teams in third and fourth place who could easily overtake the others currently in second....Great two wins and clean sheets though in this camp, couldn't have done much more..
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby maccydee » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:46 pm

epping blue wrote:
maccydee wrote:Hear me out. Providing Serbia best Ireland and seemingly win the group.

Winning puts us above Ireland. That means should we beat Georgia we don't need a win v Ireland. Results against Moldova don't count anyway so would have no effect on our play off aspirations. Therefore only needing a draw v Ireland might have an effect on us. Had we needed a win would have pushed for it. Really we need 6 points from last 2 games for a chance of being one of the top 8 second placed teams.



It counts in so far as the group is concerned. We have to finish 2nd to get in the play offs and for that it counts. Its then removed for our position in the play off league.


If we win our last two games we finish 2nd with a draw or a win tonight. My point is that being behind Ireland going into the last game might (and I say might) help us beat a defensive Ireland team.
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby Bellamys barmy army » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:48 pm

That's how it stands at the moment
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby Wayne S » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:49 pm

Im afraid we are going to be unlucky here if we come second.

With so many draws and 6 pts being removed due to Moldova finishing bottom we would likely lose out.
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby dogfound » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:49 pm

maccydee wrote:
Leon1927 wrote:We have to win both games. A draw against Ireland won't be enough so I don't understand your logic?


Had we drawn tonight we would be a point behind Ireland. Providing we both win our next game we would still be a point behind Ireland going into our last game. This would mean we would set up needing to win Ireland would need a draw to secure 2nd place. I think that would be our best chance of getting a win. Now we are ahead of Ireland we will go into the last game (providing we both win our next fixtures) only needing a draw to secure 2nd place. That can be a hard spot to be in. Of course it could work for us in that Ireland would need to attack and might leave space.



no..we wont need a draw we need a win to not finish bottom of the runners up table
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby Wayne S » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:53 pm

Looking at that table above. How annoying would it be that the unbeaten team are the ones that miss out.
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby pembroke allan » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:53 pm

Took a look at standings and at moment Bosnia level on 14 points with us! and another 4 teams within 2 points of us, but of course cannot gauge how will finish until all games played because dont know how many points all those teams will drop from the bottom teams in their respective groups
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby RV Casual » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:55 pm

maccydee wrote:
RV Casual wrote:I can't see where you coming from here sorry mate.

We are currently joint bottom with Bosnia on 14 points, had we lost we would not even been 2nd never mind joint bottom of the 9.

Points on the board was vital, 4 from the last 6 might see us over the line now, its between us, Montenegro, Iceland and Slovakia/Slovenia/Scotland.

A draw tonight would have made it ten times harder.


The Moldova results would be wiped as are all results against bottom sides. Tonight would have no bearing if we finish 2nd.


Ah right, I think i see what you mean mate, not something I was aware of that mate, so for example then, as far as our points go we are only on 8 as Moldova don't count so Iceland for example are on 13, Bosnia on 8 aswell cos their 6 against gibralta get wiped. Montenego on 10 as their 6 against Kazakhstan are dust.

Having another look at it then, I think its between us, Montnegro and Bosnia and Slovenia/Slovakia/Scotland, Iceland look safe, bloody hell, its headwork :lol:
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby dogfound » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:58 pm

pembroke allan wrote:Took a look at standings and at moment Bosnia level on 14 points with us! and another 4 teams within 2 points of us, but of course cannot gauge how will finish until all games played because dont know how many points all those teams will drop from the bottom teams in their respective groups



the accurate up to date runners up table has been posted here.
not sure what your looking at with bosnia on 14pts.
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby dogfound » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:12 pm

RV Casual wrote:
maccydee wrote:
RV Casual wrote:I can't see where you coming from here sorry mate.

We are currently joint bottom with Bosnia on 14 points, had we lost we would not even been 2nd never mind joint bottom of the 9.

Points on the board was vital, 4 from the last 6 might see us over the line now, its between us, Montenegro, Iceland and Slovakia/Slovenia/Scotland.

A draw tonight would have made it ten times harder.


The Moldova results would be wiped as are all results against bottom sides. Tonight would have no bearing if we finish 2nd.


Ah right, I think i see what you mean mate, not something I was aware of that mate, so for example then, as far as our points go we are only on 8 as Moldova don't count so Iceland for example are on 13, Bosnia on 8 aswell cos their 6 against gibralta get wiped. Montenego on 10 as their 6 against Kazakhstan are dust.

Having another look at it then, I think its between us, Montnegro and Bosnia and Slovenia/Slovakia/Scotland, Iceland look safe, bloody hell, its headwork :lol:



in 5 of the groups not including ours there is a realistic chance the country currently second will not end up 2nd. which further complicates it...better for us in some cases worse in others..
one things for sure 12pts in this table which is what we get if we draw against Ireland assuming we have beaten Georgia will probably not be enough.and even if by some miracle it is,it wont be clear at kick off time for the Ireland game. so it is must win.
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby TopCat CCFC » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:14 pm

Leon1927 wrote:I'd rather win and have the momentum. I draw would have hurt our confidence.


Agree .
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby pembroke allan » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:22 pm

dogfound wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:Took a look at standings and at moment Bosnia level on 14 points with us! and another 4 teams within 2 points of us, but of course cannot gauge how will finish until all games played because dont know how many points all those teams will drop from the bottom teams in their respective groups



the accurate up to date runners up table has been posted here.
not sure what your looking at with bosnia on 14pts.



Looked at the live table's! :thumbup:
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby Bellamys barmy army » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:25 pm

Apart from Iceland and Slovakia who have, you can see from the table above they have "played 7" in terms on the race for second.

Like has been mentioned though Bosnia have 2 very tough games to come, they lose that allows Greece to come in who are actually in a better points position in this table which is shit for us

The simple fact is 2 wins for us should be enough but may actually not be, a win and a draw means it is very unlikely we get a play off spot looking at all the possible result outcomes
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby GodfreyIngram'sLaughing » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:36 pm

Yes, we need six points from the last two games to get a maximum of 14pts and probably still need a miracle, given the way the groups are panning out.

For example, we can't catch Portugal, who already have 15pts, so that leaves seven other groups..

We won't catch Italy either, as they have 13pts already and have Macedonia at home and Albania away, neither of which are the bottom team in that group either, so just two points from those games would be enough for them..so that leaves five groups ..

As another poster said earlier, there are a number of groups where the third and fourth placed sides could easily overtake the second placed sides (Denmark & Montenegro in Group E, Slovakia, Scotland & Slovenia in Group F, Bosnia & Greece in Group H) and anything can happen in Group I, as four teams are split by just two points overall - Croatia, Iceland, Turkey & Ukraine..

Group A is going to have a massive say in things too, with Sweden and the Netherlands going for the runners up spot, but with Belarus and Luxembourg still to be confirmed as the 'worst team', so many twists and turns to come in that one.

I genuinely believe our main hope is for Northern Ireland not to get any further points from Germany at home and Norway away, but they've done so well, I can't imagine they wouldn't get a point in Oslo...
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby paulh_85 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:38 pm

That second place table looks fine to me. Need to win the last two which will be tough but if we do we will get a playoff spot
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby Deano1 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:45 pm

Its a farce really. The 8th and 9th teams should have a play-off. Comparing goal differences etc across groups is a nonsense. The groups are all different strengths.
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby JimCP91 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:27 am

Bosnia still have to play belgium. As long as win our last 2, we will qualify!
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Re: A draw might have been better than a win

Postby maccydee » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:20 am

dogfound wrote:
maccydee wrote:
Leon1927 wrote:We have to win both games. A draw against Ireland won't be enough so I don't understand your logic?


Had we drawn tonight we would be a point behind Ireland. Providing we both win our next game we would still be a point behind Ireland going into our last game. This would mean we would set up needing to win Ireland would need a draw to secure 2nd place. I think that would be our best chance of getting a win. Now we are ahead of Ireland we will go into the last game (providing we both win our next fixtures) only needing a draw to secure 2nd place. That can be a hard spot to be in. Of course it could work for us in that Ireland would need to attack and might leave space.



no..we wont need a draw we need a win to not finish bottom of the runners up table


The result against Moldova had no factor on the play off table.
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