" WHY WALES HAVE TO BEAT IRELAND TOMORROW NIGHT "

The Wales World Cup play-off scenario explained - why Wales' disciplinary record could cost them qualification


Wales will need to beat Ireland to avoid the prospect of being the unlucky runner-up.


By Chris Wathan


Sunday 8th October 2017



There will be 30,000 amateur mathematicians - aka Wales fans - at Cardiff City Stadium tomorrow night trying to work out any manner of World Cup qualification scenarios.

To say it is complicated is the under-statement of 2017. You almost need a degree in algebra to get your head around the myriad of permutations about to unfold.

Games across Europe in the last 72 hours have simplified things for Wales - but also complicated them further!

The simple bit. Beat Ireland and Wales are 100 per cent certain to be in the play-offs.



They can only get to 13 points for mini-league purposes. Wales will reach the 14 mark by defeating the Irish and will be in the play-offs. No ifs, no buts, no maybes.



The complicated bit. Well, we genuinely could be in a situation at 10pm on Monday where a draw means Wales finish as Group D runners-up, but end up missing out on the play-offs because of Neil Taylor's red card in Dublin in March, amongst other things.

Nobody, but nobody, let's emphasise, should be blaming Taylor for that. He is a full-on, utterly committed left-back whose tenacious tackling has been every bit as important to Wales' rise as a football nation as other qualities his team-mates have brought to the party.

But a truly horrible, and entirely possible, scenario is looming whereby Wales could end up locked on an identical record with Croatia as 'worst' runners-up, so to speak. Same mini-league points tally of 12, same goal difference, same goals scored.

The next two things factored in by FIFA to separate sides are fair play and, horror of any horror, drawing of lots.

Get this too. Wales v Ireland and Ukraine v Croatia - the game that determines who finishes second in Group I - kick-off at exactly the same time in Cardiff and Kiev respectively.




See what we mean about it getting more complicated?

As things stand Wales' disciplinary record is worse than Croatia's. Chris Coleman's men have accrued 13 yellow cards during the nine qualifiers thus far, plus Taylor's red.

The players who have been booked are Joe Allen (twice), Gareth Bale (two), Jazz Richards, Tom Lawrence, Hal Robson-Kanu, Andy King, Aaron Ramsey, Joe Ledley, Ben Davies, Ashley Williams and James Chester.

Croatia have nine yellow cards and one indirect red, Ivan Perisic who was sent off for two yellows against Iceland.

FIFA award one point for a yellow, three for the Perisic situation of two yellows, four for a direct red like Taylor's and five for a player already on a yellow who then gets a direct red.

Under fair play regulations the team with the least points wins. At the moment Wales are on 17 points, Croatia on 12. But with so much at stake in Cardiff and Kiev, there could be more twists to come with the referees of the two games kept busy.

Whatever, it does seem Wales will need to beat Ireland to avoid the prospect of being the unlucky runner-up.






This is the group by group state of play....




GROUP A

France will top the group by beating Belarus at home on Tuesday night. Sweden travel to Amsterdam to play the Netherlands.

However, they are three points clear and have such a superior goal difference, plus-19 to plus-seven for the Dutch, they seem certain to finish second.

Sweden are already on 13 mini-league points, irrespective of whether Belarus or Luxembourg finish bottom. Wales, to repeat, will get to 12 with a draw against the Irish, 14 by beating them.





GROUP B

Switzerland are three points clear of Portugal. The sides meet in Lisbon on Tuesday and a Portuguese win will be enough to put them straight through to Russia. Any other result and it's the Swiss who progress.

How the mini-league affects Wales

Switzerland or Portugal, whoever finishes second, already have enough points to be in the play-offs.





GROUP C

Germany have won the group, Northern Ireland are second.


Northern Ireland need a point in Norway on Sunday evening to be guaranteed a play-off spot. They are already on 13. Has no bearing on Wales.






GROUP D

The most open, competitive group of the lot. Serbia are on 18 points, Wales 17, Ireland 16 and any one of them can win the group or finish second.

Serbia are home to Georgia so will be expected to progress, but nerves will kick in.

Wales were hoping a draw with the Irish could be enough for a guaranteed play-off berth, but Greece winning in Cyprus on Saturday night dented that.

Basically the three teams each have to win.





How the mini-league affects Wales

Well a win takes Wales to 14 mini-league points, which would eclipse the 13 points tally Greece will finish on in Group H. A draw would put us on 12... and sweating big time.





GROUP E

Poland seem destined to win the group with Denmark second. The Danes meet Romania at home tonight.

How the mini-league affects Wales

Denmark are on 13 mini-league points, but likely to get up to 16.





GROUP F

This has complicated the mix, with Wales fans feeling this could be the group where a team misses out.

But that can only happen if Slovenia beat Scotland and Slovakia fail to beat Malta at home, highly unlikely.

How the mini-league affects Wales

A Scottish win in Slovenia would ensure second place and 14 mini-league points. If they draw, Slovakia will take top spot on goal difference by defeating Malta.

Slovakia have 12 mini-league points and the ones gained against Malta would not count. Wales could finish on 12 by drawing with Ireland, but Slovakia have a better goal difference - plus-five to Wales' plus-two.




GROUP G

Spain have won the group, Italy are second.

How the mini-league affects Wales

The Italians are already on 14. They will be the side everyone wants to avoid in the play-offs.





GROUP H

Before Saturday night there was real hope here for Wales, trying to overhaul one of Bosnia or Greece.

Bosnia slipped up at home to Belgium, but Greece won 2-1 in Cyprus to go second. Given they have Gibraltar to come in Athens, it will be extraordinary if Greece don't finish as runners-up.

How the mini-league affects Wales

Greece's points versus Gibraltar won't count. They have a tally of 13, so a Wales win will definitely overtake that.

If Greece don't win and Bosnia defeat Estonia, the Bosnians will finish second with 11 mini-league points.

So a Wales draw in those circumstances would still be enough. The Group H games take place on Tuesday night.

If Wales have drawn, everyone here will suddenly become Bosnian and Gibraltar fans for the night!





GROUP I

Iceland will win this group by beating Kosovo at home, as gimme as you will get in world football.

So it's between Ukraine and Croatia for runners-up spot. They have the same number of points, with Croatia having the better goal difference.

How the mini-league affects Wales

Big time. If either team wins, they will go onto 14 mini-league points and automatically progress to the play-offs.

A Ukraine v Croatia draw, on the other hand, complicates matters if Wales only take a point from their meeting with the Irish.

Croatia would finish second on 12 mini-league points, the same tally Wales would have.

Their goal difference of plus-two is the same as Wales', which would not change with two draws.

Wales players celebrate Tom Lawrence's goal against Georgia (Image: Getty Images Europe)
So it comes down to goals scored in the mini-league. Wales have seven, Croatia six.

A 0-0 Wales draw, and a 1-1 Ukraine v Croatia scoreline would lead to that horrific fair play scenario becoming the deciding factor.

Or a 1-1 Wales draw and a 2-2 Ukraine v Croatia scoreline.

A 0-0 scoreline in Kiev, however, and Wales would be celebrating. Basically, Wales would need to stay a goal ahead of Croatia, regardless of the scoreline.








CONCLUSION

It's ifs, buts, maybes, get the calculators out time.

But, of course, one thing can put the mathematics to bed for good - if Wales beat Ireland they are DEFINITELY in the play-offs, at least.

They may even end up winning the group. That would make this horrible head scratching and number-crunching we have done in the past few days worthwhile.

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The writer has taken 1000 words to say that if we win then we'll be in the playoffs, but a draw could also be enough

The writer has taken 1000 words to say that if we win then we'll be in the playoffs, but a draw could also be enough

A draw is not enough as we will miss out by one goal to Croatia if they draw! Us +8 them + 9, But if Croatia lose we still lose out because team they are playing wil go above us ! A win is now ours and ire only option. Think if we win will be 6th placed runner-up and as bonus we will be seeded

The writer has taken 1000 words to say that if we win then we'll be in the playoffs, but a draw could also be enough

A draw is not enough as we will miss out by one goal to Croatia if they draw! Us +8 them + 9, But if Croatia lose we still lose out because team they are playing wil go above us ! A win is now ours and ire only option. Think if we win will be 6th placed runner-up and as bonus we will be seeded

A draw is enough if Ukraine Croatia have a lower scoring draw.

The writer has taken 1000 words to say that if we win then we'll be in the playoffs, but a draw could also be enough

A draw is not enough as we will miss out by one goal to Croatia if they draw! Us +8 them + 9, But if Croatia lose we still lose out because team they are playing wil go above us ! A win is now ours and ire only option. Think if we win will be 6th placed runner-up and as bonus we will be seeded

A draw is enough if Ukraine Croatia have a lower scoring draw.

Even though there goal difference is one better than ours? Any draw keeps goal difference same Eg 2-2 for wales will still mean +8 0-0 Croatia still means they have +9 or am i missing something?

The writer has taken 1000 words to say that if we win then we'll be in the playoffs, but a draw could also be enough

A draw is not enough as we will miss out by one goal to Croatia if they draw! Us +8 them + 9, But if Croatia lose we still lose out because team they are playing wil go above us ! A win is now ours and ire only option. Think if we win will be 6th placed runner-up and as bonus we will be seeded

A draw is enough if Ukraine Croatia have a lower scoring draw.

Even though there goal difference is one better than ours? Any draw keeps goal difference same Eg 2-2 for wales will still mean +8 0-0 Croatia still means they have +9 or am i missing something?[/quote


Mini league goal difference we're both +2 but we have scored 1 more goal. If for example we draw 0-0 and they draw 1-1 then we're equal but we're likely to miss out on fair play rules

The writer has taken 1000 words to say that if we win then we'll be in the playoffs, but a draw could also be enough

A draw is not enough as we will miss out by one goal to Croatia if they draw! Us +8 them + 9, But if Croatia lose we still lose out because team they are playing wil go above us ! A win is now ours and ire only option. Think if we win will be 6th placed runner-up and as bonus we will be seeded

A draw is enough if Ukraine Croatia have a lower scoring draw.

Even though there goal difference is one better than ours? Any draw keeps goal difference same Eg 2-2 for wales will still mean +8 0-0 Croatia still means they have +9 or am i missing something?[/quote


Mini league goal difference we're both +2 but we have scored 1 more goal. If for example we draw 0-0 and they draw 1-1 then we're equal but we're likely to miss out on fair play rules

So its not the final group goal difference that counts its the goal difference when final 8 teams are decided? Eg after points taken from bottom teams?

They should have just placed the bottom 6/7 seeds in one group and had winner goes through only .
That would allow second place in other groups to go to play offs direct without all this nonsense.

Imagine a group of

San marino
Kosovo
Gibralter
Lichtenstein
Faroe islands
Moldova
Andorra

One of them making a world cup final tournament would be brilliant and would give them something to play for instead of just being whipping boys every time

They should have just placed the bottom 6/7 seeds in one group and had winner goes through only .
That would allow second place in other groups to go to play offs direct without all this nonsense.

Imagine a group of

San marino
Kosovo
Gibralter
Lichtenstein
Faroe islands
Moldova
Andorra

One of them making a world cup final tournament would be brilliant and would give them something to play for instead of just being whipping boys every time

great idea..the parks teams could join in too...top idea ring SKY

They should have just placed the bottom 6/7 seeds in one group and had winner goes through only .
That would allow second place in other groups to go to play offs direct without all this nonsense.

Imagine a group of

San marino
Kosovo
Gibralter
Lichtenstein
Faroe islands
Moldova
Andorra

One of them making a world cup final tournament would be brilliant and would give them something to play for instead of just being whipping boys every time

What a load of rubbish,need the best teams at the finals not one of the worst

The writer has taken 1000 words to say that if we win then we'll be in the playoffs, but a draw could also be enough

A draw is not enough as we will miss out by one goal to Croatia if they draw! Us +8 them + 9, But if Croatia lose we still lose out because team they are playing wil go above us ! A win is now ours and ire only option. Think if we win will be 6th placed runner-up and as bonus we will be seeded

A draw is enough if Ukraine Croatia have a lower scoring draw.

Even though there goal difference is one better than ours? Any draw keeps goal difference same Eg 2-2 for wales will still mean +8 0-0 Croatia still means they have +9 or am i missing something?

their goal difference is exactly the same as ours

so moves on to goals scored..therefore there is a difference in what scores the 2 hypothetical draws are.

should they draw be 1 goal higher than ours it meand GD same..goals scored same..goals conceded same..

next criteria is fair play...at present we both have 1 red...but have 4 more yellows///

gaynor is correct

The writer has taken 1000 words to say that if we win then we'll be in the playoffs, but a draw could also be enough

i think you now know why he wrote a 1000 words..
but war and peace wouldnt have got the message home.

They should have just placed the bottom 6/7 seeds in one group and had winner goes through only .
That would allow second place in other groups to go to play offs direct without all this nonsense.

Imagine a group of

San marino
Kosovo
Gibralter
Lichtenstein
Faroe islands
Moldova
Andorra

One of them making a world cup final tournament would be brilliant and would give them something to play for instead of just being whipping boys every time

the problem is though, we could find ourselves constantly in a group with all 1st seeded teams, and we would become the whipping boys every game

They should have just placed the bottom 6/7 seeds in one group and had winner goes through only .
That would allow second place in other groups to go to play offs direct without all this nonsense.

Imagine a group of

San marino
Kosovo
Gibralter
Lichtenstein
Faroe islands
Moldova
Andorra

One of them making a world cup final tournament would be brilliant and would give them something to play for instead of just being whipping boys every time

great idea..the parks teams could join in too...top idea ring SKY

as poor an idea as this is, its actually going to happen in the next EUROS...
only a matter of time before we have a team of seals or dogs in the finals

They should have just placed the bottom 6/7 seeds in one group and had winner goes through only .
That would allow second place in other groups to go to play offs direct without all this nonsense.

Imagine a group of

San marino
Kosovo
Gibralter
Lichtenstein
Faroe islands
Moldova
Andorra

One of them making a world cup final tournament would be brilliant and would give them something to play for instead of just being whipping boys every time

What a load of rubbish,need the best teams at the finals not one of the worst

Why ?
Most of the best games in the euros last year involved the lower ranked teams and made the tournament interesting. Iceland, wales and northern ireland are prime examples.
Everybody should have a chance to qualify. The way the seeding works makes it impossible for lower teams to qualify. The impact a tournament for any of those teams mentioned would be immense for the national game in that country and would help them develop as a football nation. Using fair play tables or
Flipping a coin/ drawing lots to decide who qualifies is shocking

They should have just placed the bottom 6/7 seeds in one group and had winner goes through only .
That would allow second place in other groups to go to play offs direct without all this nonsense.

Imagine a group of

San marino
Kosovo
Gibralter
Lichtenstein
Faroe islands
Moldova
Andorra

One of them making a world cup final tournament would be brilliant and would give them something to play for instead of just being whipping boys every time

the problem is though, we could find ourselves constantly in a group with all 1st seeded teams, and we would become the whipping boys every game

Not really. We would have had the same group just without moldova.

The clowns at FIFA do seem to stumble from one crass decision to another - the lunatics running the asylum comes to mind.

I do see why any seeding system is in place to guarantee the top teams go though, but I do disagree with it really. After all, surely if you wish to become world or European champions you should be able to beat any and all contenders to win your crown?

Should be down to random draw even if the likes of Germany, France, Netherlands, England, Spain and Belgium get drawn in the same group. It would give All countries the chance to prove they were world beaters.

OK, some may say it would be such a shame not to see the best talent at a finals.

The flip side is that it could possibly be a case where the team that does not loose a game (in this instance WALES), goes out because of a few stupid FIFA officials sitting in an office thinking of their next idiotic declaration.

COME ON WALES - 3 Points tomorrow.

They should have just placed the bottom 6/7 seeds in one group and had winner goes through only .
That would allow second place in other groups to go to play offs direct without all this nonsense.

Imagine a group of

San marino
Kosovo
Gibralter
Lichtenstein
Faroe islands
Moldova
Andorra

One of them making a world cup final tournament would be brilliant and would give them something to play for instead of just being whipping boys every time

What a load of rubbish,need the best teams at the finals not one of the worst

Why ?
Most of the best games in the euros last year involved the lower ranked teams and made the tournament interesting. Iceland, wales and northern ireland are prime examples.
Everybody should have a chance to qualify. The way the seeding works makes it impossible for lower teams to qualify. The impact a tournament for any of those teams mentioned would be immense for the national game in that country and would help them develop as a football nation. Using fair play tables or
Flipping a coin/ drawing lots to decide who qualifies is shocking

How is it impossible for them to qualifying?Win games top the table =qualify.
It’s not that long ago Wales never looked likely to qualify as we weren’t seeded and got difficult groups.

The writer has taken 1000 words to say that if we win then we'll be in the playoffs, but a draw could also be enough

A draw is not enough as we will miss out by one goal to Croatia if they draw! Us +8 them + 9, But if Croatia lose we still lose out because team they are playing wil go above us ! A win is now ours and ire only option. Think if we win will be 6th placed runner-up and as bonus we will be seeded

A draw is enough if Ukraine Croatia have a lower scoring draw.

Even though there goal difference is one better than ours? Any draw keeps goal difference same Eg 2-2 for wales will still mean +8 0-0 Croatia still means they have +9 or am i missing something?

their goal difference is exactly the same as ours

so moves on to goals scored..therefore there is a difference in what scores the 2 hypothetical draws are.

should they draw be 1 goal higher than ours it meand GD same..goals scored same..goals conceded same..

next criteria is fair play...at present we both have 1 red...but have 4 more yellows///

gaynor is correct

The table i looked at on bbc sport had us + 8 Croatia + 9 or Croatia scored 13 conceded 4 we had sc 13 con 5? My maths says +9 & + 8 so is bbc table wrong?

We draw and Georgia win 0-1,same points and goal difference so who wins and comes second?

We draw and Georgia win 0-1,same points and goal difference so who wins and comes second?

Most goals scored if same then another criteria ect ect ect very complicated could be as I'm finding out

We draw and Georgia win 0-1,same points and goal difference so who wins and comes second?

Most goals scored if same then another criteria ect ect ect very complicated could be as I'm finding out

Wow that would be hard to take if we came joint top as so to speak without losing a game and not only failing to qualify but also not making the play-offs.

We draw and Georgia win 0-1,same points and goal difference so who wins and comes second?

Most goals scored if same then another criteria ect ect ect very complicated could be as I'm finding out

Wow that would be hard to take if we came joint top as so to speak without losing a game and not only failing to qualify but also not making the play-offs.

Well it was 5 draws in 6 games caused this scenario , all well not losing but need to win enough games aswell

The writer has taken 1000 words to say that if we win then we'll be in the playoffs, but a draw could also be enough

A draw is not enough as we will miss out by one goal to Croatia if they draw! Us +8 them + 9, But if Croatia lose we still lose out because team they are playing wil go above us ! A win is now ours and ire only option. Think if we win will be 6th placed runner-up and as bonus we will be seeded

A draw is enough if Ukraine Croatia have a lower scoring draw.

Even though there goal difference is one better than ours? Any draw keeps goal difference same Eg 2-2 for wales will still mean +8 0-0 Croatia still means they have +9 or am i missing something?

their goal difference is exactly the same as ours

so moves on to goals scored..therefore there is a difference in what scores the 2 hypothetical draws are.

should they draw be 1 goal higher than ours it meand GD same..goals scored same..goals conceded same..

next criteria is fair play...at present we both have 1 red...but have 4 more yellows///

gaynor is correct

The table i looked at on bbc sport had us + 8 Croatia + 9 or Croatia scored 13 conceded 4 we had sc 13 con 5? My maths says +9 & + 8 so is bbc table wrong?

its minus the bottom club mate. honest..which means both countries on plus 2...we have scored 1 goal more

The writer has taken 1000 words to say that if we win then we'll be in the playoffs, but a draw could also be enough

A draw is not enough as we will miss out by one goal to Croatia if they draw! Us +8 them + 9, But if Croatia lose we still lose out because team they are playing wil go above us ! A win is now ours and ire only option. Think if we win will be 6th placed runner-up and as bonus we will be seeded

A draw is enough if Ukraine Croatia have a lower scoring draw.

Even though there goal difference is one better than ours? Any draw keeps goal difference same Eg 2-2 for wales will still mean +8 0-0 Croatia still means they have +9 or am i missing something?

their goal difference is exactly the same as ours

so moves on to goals scored..therefore there is a difference in what scores the 2 hypothetical draws are.

should they draw be 1 goal higher than ours it meand GD same..goals scored same..goals conceded same..

next criteria is fair play...at present we both have 1 red...but have 4 more yellows///

gaynor is correct

The table i looked at on bbc sport had us + 8 Croatia + 9 or Croatia scored 13 conceded 4 we had sc 13 con 5? My maths says +9 & + 8 so is bbc table wrong?

its minus the bottom club mate. honest..which means both countries on plus 2...we have scored 1 goal more

Right understand now why the fck cant it be final table why complicate matters ? So presume they take the points and the goals away giving you the plus 2 scenario? May as well ask as did put it out there tbe seedings are they based on fifa rankings as i believe or by position in playoffs ie 1st 4 teams?

We draw and Georgia win 0-1,same points and goal difference so who wins and comes second?

Serbia have scored 6 more goals...so they go through..

Can it really come down to drawing lots! That would be horrendous! What is wrong with flipping a coin!

Tails for Wales never fails.

They should have just placed the bottom 6/7 seeds in one group and had winner goes through only .
That would allow second place in other groups to go to play offs direct without all this nonsense.

Imagine a group of

San marino
Kosovo
Gibralter
Lichtenstein
Faroe islands
Moldova
Andorra

One of them making a world cup final tournament would be brilliant and would give them something to play for instead of just being whipping boys every time

What a load of rubbish,need the best teams at the finals not one of the worst

Why ?
Most of the best games in the euros last year involved the lower ranked teams and made the tournament interesting. Iceland, wales and northern ireland are prime examples.
Everybody should have a chance to qualify. The way the seeding works makes it impossible for lower teams to qualify. The impact a tournament for any of those teams mentioned would be immense for the national game in that country and would help them develop as a football nation. Using fair play tables or
Flipping a coin/ drawing lots to decide who qualifies is shocking

one of this bunch will be in the next EUROs.
its an awful decision..give them a chance ffs, at the expense of who.? us maybe.?.40 years of watching my country and the minute we have a half decent team some total beaut decides to award places out of pity...how about we win promotion this year but the FA say they are going to promote torquay instead...or warnock decides to play dai hunt next friday..?
sport is suppose to be competitive where the best rise to the top....far to much of this going on..

They should have just placed the bottom 6/7 seeds in one group and had winner goes through only .
That would allow second place in other groups to go to play offs direct without all this nonsense.

Imagine a group of

San marino
Kosovo
Gibralter
Lichtenstein
Faroe islands
Moldova
Andorra

One of them making a world cup final tournament would be brilliant and would give them something to play for instead of just being whipping boys every time

What a load of rubbish,need the best teams at the finals not one of the worst

Why ?
Most of the best games in the euros last year involved the lower ranked teams and made the tournament interesting. Iceland, wales and northern ireland are prime examples.
Everybody should have a chance to qualify. The way the seeding works makes it impossible for lower teams to qualify. The impact a tournament for any of those teams mentioned would be immense for the national game in that country and would help them develop as a football nation. Using fair play tables or
Flipping a coin/ drawing lots to decide who qualifies is shocking

one of this bunch will be in the next EUROs.
its an awful decision..give them a chance ffs, at the expense of who.? us maybe.?.40 years of watching my country and the minute we have a half decent team some total beaut decides to award places out of pity...how about we win promotion this year but the FA say they are going to promote torquay instead...or warnock decides to play dai hunt next friday..?
sport is suppose to be competitive where the best rise to the top....far to much of this going on..

So you are saying you would rather miss out on the toss of a coin than actually play a match and win your place ?
This mini league way of doing it with the possibility of drawing lots is massively unfair. We could possibly finish joint top (second on goal difference) and go unbeaten through the campaign only to be told your not going to the tournament because you lost a coin toss

They should have just placed the bottom 6/7 seeds in one group and had winner goes through only .
That would allow second place in other groups to go to play offs direct without all this nonsense.

Imagine a group of

San marino
Kosovo
Gibralter
Lichtenstein
Faroe islands
Moldova
Andorra

One of them making a world cup final tournament would be brilliant and would give them something to play for instead of just being whipping boys every time

What a load of rubbish,need the best teams at the finals not one of the worst

Why ?
Most of the best games in the euros last year involved the lower ranked teams and made the tournament interesting. Iceland, wales and northern ireland are prime examples.
Everybody should have a chance to qualify. The way the seeding works makes it impossible for lower teams to qualify. The impact a tournament for any of those teams mentioned would be immense for the national game in that country and would help them develop as a football nation. Using fair play tables or
Flipping a coin/ drawing lots to decide who qualifies is shocking

one of this bunch will be in the next EUROs.
its an awful decision..give them a chance ffs, at the expense of who.? us maybe.?.40 years of watching my country and the minute we have a half decent team some total beaut decides to award places out of pity...how about we win promotion this year but the FA say they are going to promote torquay instead...or warnock decides to play dai hunt next friday..?
sport is suppose to be competitive where the best rise to the top....far to much of this going on..

So you are saying you would rather miss out on the toss of a coin than actually play a match and win your place ?
This mini league way of doing it with the possibility of drawing lots is massively unfair. We could possibly finish joint top (second on goal difference) and go unbeaten through the campaign only to be told your not going to the tournament because you lost a coin toss

whats this got to do with wanting pontllanfraith under 9s b team in the WC finals ?