" CARDIFF CITY/VINCENT TAN BEGIN COURT CASE TALKS "

Cardiff City lawyers begin talks in High Court case over disputed transfers


Wednesday 6th December 2017

News

The Bluebirds say they paid too much for the three players four years ago

The dispute relates to deals for Chilean midfielder Gary Medel (left), full-back John Brayford (top right), and goalkeeper Simon Moore

Lawyers are preparing to negotiate in the hope of settling a High Court dispute over player transfers involving Cardiff City.

Vincent Tan at the Championship club have suggested that they paid too much for three players four years ago and have made allegations of misrepresentation.

A judge has been told, at a High Court hearing in London, that all sides aim to mediate and discussions are due to take place early in 2018.

Vincent Tan initially targeted a number of people including: former manager Malky Mackay, former head of recruitment Iain Moody, former scout Thomas Johnson, an ex-footballer, and agents Carly Barnes and Michael Carney.


Cardiff City suing former scout and two agents over claims club 'lost money' on transfers


Mackay and Mr Moody have been removed from a written list of defendants.



A lawyer representing Mr Carney says proceedings have also been discontinued against his client.



All five deny allegations of wrongdoing.

Judge David Waksman oversaw the latest hearing in the case.

The judge heard the dispute centred on the transfers of midfielder Gary Medel, defender John Brayford and goalkeeper Simon Moore in 2013.

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Malky Mackay and Mr Moody have been removed from a written list of defendants accused by Vincent Tan.

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I don't begin to understand the legal position here or indeed have faith that they'll find a just conclusion after the talks or indeed court case, should it get that far. We've overpaid for a few players, its football and that happens. Do you think anyone actually said that to Tan. Unless there's some cast iron criminal skulduggery then surely we lose. Puzzled by the 3 named players who we ended up selling for pretty much what we paid. If this is where its ending after all the effort was it all worth it ?

I don't begin to understand the legal position here or indeed have faith that they'll find a just conclusion after the talks or indeed court case, should it get that far. We've overpaid for a few players, its football and that happens. Do you think anyone actually said that to Tan. Unless there's some cast iron criminal skulduggery then surely we lose. Puzzled by the 3 named players who we ended up selling for pretty much what we paid. If this is where its ending after all the effort was it all worth it ?

If there was pure fraud proven, then it surely should be a criminal case?

I'm not sure about the whole story behind it has i made a decision to keep out of the politics and running of the club in depth. But unless they have found something amiss then i think its a no go.
Clubs over the last 100 or so years have all overpaid for players at some point god help if they all start taking it to court

I don't begin to understand the legal position here or indeed have faith that they'll find a just conclusion after the talks or indeed court case, should it get that far. We've overpaid for a few players, its football and that happens. Do you think anyone actually said that to Tan. Unless there's some cast iron criminal skulduggery then surely we lose. Puzzled by the 3 named players who we ended up selling for pretty much what we paid. If this is where its ending after all the effort was it all worth it ?

its obviously not about the transfer fees.

Lets hope VT will spend as much in January as he will for these highly paid lawyers for a court case that will probably lead to nothing.

This is not my area of law but from my knowledge of law if CCFC are successful they will surely only recover the "actual loss" -so (a) whatever we paid for the players less (b) whatever we sold them for = (c) a maximum amount

So its probably a negligible amount in the grand scheme of things.

My biggest concern is that other clubs will see how we conduct business, see cases are likely to end up in court, and start thinking its too much hassle to deal with CCFC.

My biggest concern is that other clubs will see how we conduct business, see cases are likely to end up in court, and start thinking its too much hassle to deal with CCFC.[/quote]

It could have a positive reaction, where the "money men" realize its not good business to hoodwink CCFC.

Football is a multibillion business now,,,, & where there is Big money potential, so there is Big fraud potential to, especially from overseas.

Allegedly it's all to do with what the agents got during the transfers, and the way the prices were inflated to increase money for said agents, allegedly

I don't begin to understand the legal position here or indeed have faith that they'll find a just conclusion after the talks or indeed court case, should it get that far. We've overpaid for a few players, its football and that happens. Do you think anyone actually said that to Tan. Unless there's some cast iron criminal skulduggery then surely we lose. Puzzled by the 3 named players who we ended up selling for pretty much what we paid. If this is where its ending after all the effort was it all worth it ?

Misrepresentation. In a nutshell the club were told these players were brilliant and on that basis paid a certain amount of money. It turned out they weren't as good as claimed and all along the defendant's knew this.

It's a bit like one of those car's we have all bought in the past......

This is not my area of law but from my knowledge of law if CCFC are successful they will surely only recover the "actual loss" -so (a) whatever we paid for the players less (b) whatever we sold them for = (c) a maximum amount

So its probably a negligible amount in the grand scheme of things.

My biggest concern is that other clubs will see how we conduct business, see cases are likely to end up in court, and start thinking its too much hassle to deal with CCFC.

you think clubs will be put off dealing with us because we are above board.?

and this has nothing to do with transfer fees.

I don't begin to understand the legal position here or indeed have faith that they'll find a just conclusion after the talks or indeed court case, should it get that far. We've overpaid for a few players, its football and that happens. Do you think anyone actually said that to Tan. Unless there's some cast iron criminal skulduggery then surely we lose. Puzzled by the 3 named players who we ended up selling for pretty much what we paid. If this is where its ending after all the effort was it all worth it ?

If there was pure fraud proven, then it surely should be a criminal case?

Obviously if fraud is involved then it would be criminal. When selling something in the commercial world it is a criminal offence if the 'description' is obviously wrong. For example if a car is described as 'brand new' but the registration plate and documentation show it's actually 10 years old.

Other consumer laws are civil offences (torts) but only description is criminal.

Surely it's not fraud or the case would be dealt with in a crown court? It's purely to do with someone getting more than they should have, mediation is a lesser of two evils for both parties because if goes further and agents lose it will have prefound effect on their ability to deal with efl or premier leagues! club would pay the cost of legal fees for both parties if lose.?

Surely it's not fraud or the case would be dealt with in a crown court? It's purely to do with someone getting more than they should have, mediation is a lesser of two evils for both parties because if goes further and agents lose it will have prefound effect on their ability to deal with efl or premier leagues! club would pay the cost of legal fees for both parties if lose.?

Your correct Allan it's in the High Court so it's a Civil matter. Generally as a rule loser pays but the Judge has discretion to order that the losing party only pay a percentage or very rarely nothing at all. I believe Sam Hammam only had to pay small percentage when he lost his Summary Judgement against the club back in 2008.

You make an excellent point about reputational damage the proceedings might inflict on the defendants and might explain why they are keen to mediate.

Personally I think it is brilliant that a club owner is finally standing up to greed agents who have been sucking money out of football for years.

For example just how could the agent involved in the Paul Pobga transfer justify receiving £41m? This nonsense has to stop because ultimately that money is coming out of the pockets of football fans all around the world.

Surely it's not fraud or the case would be dealt with in a crown court? It's purely to do with someone getting more than they should have, mediation is a lesser of two evils for both parties because if goes further and agents lose it will have prefound effect on their ability to deal with efl or premier leagues! club would pay the cost of legal fees for both parties if lose.?

Your correct Allan it's in the High Court so it's a Civil matter. Generally as a rule loser pays but the Judge has discretion to order that the losing party only pay a percentage or very rarely nothing at all. I believe Sam Hammam only had to pay small percentage when he lost his Summary Judgement against the club back in 2008.

You make an excellent point about reputational damage the proceedings might inflict on the defendants and might explain why they are keen to mediate.

Personally I think it is brilliant that a club owner is finally standing up to greed agents who have been sucking money out of football for years.

For example just how could the agent involved in the Paul Pobga transfer justify receiving £41m? This nonsense has to stop because ultimately that money is coming out of the pockets of football fans all around the world.

Guess it's in both parties interest's to settle out of court cannot see it any other way, both appear eager to avoid Court preceedings especially the agents as if found to be in wrong they could lose their licence to practice!

What a crock of shit. The club is to blame because they should know who they are signing. I remember buying a crock of shite in a Ford Sierra years ago. I should of looked properly before buying. Can’t see the club (Tan)winning this TBH

Lets be honest it shows how badly our club was being run at that time. Thankfully we have a football man who is there to get the best out of the players and for the best for the Club it is clear our manager is doing a lot more than being a manager he is guiding the people who are running the club too

What a crock of shit. The club is to blame because they should know who they are signing. I remember buying a crock of shite in a Ford Sierra years ago. I should of looked properly before buying. Can’t see the club (Tan)winning this TBH

fair enough..but had you employed a couple of top mechanics who inturn recomended you have a gearbox expert look at it and you still end up with a crock of shite..youd be livid.
clearly Tan went after Malky and ended up with a trio of agents/ scouts...dont see why anyone who loves football let alone Cardiff wouldnt think it a good thing to at least try and stop money being drained out of the game by these blood suckers.

What a crock of shit. The club is to blame because they should know who they are signing. I remember buying a crock of shite in a Ford Sierra years ago. I should of looked properly before buying. Can’t see the club (Tan)winning this TBH

Spot on nukesy boy!!i had a ruby on Saturday but it wasn't as nice as it looked on the menu reckon il try for a refund lol

What a crock of shit. The club is to blame because they should know who they are signing. I remember buying a crock of shite in a Ford Sierra years ago. I should of looked properly before buying. Can’t see the club (Tan)winning this TBH

Spot on nukesy boy!!i had a ruby on Saturday but it wasn't as nice as it looked on the menu reckon il try for a refund lol

And you would get a refund if it wasn't up to standard tho the agents riped tan off it's as simple as that acorn was available for 1m only a few months earlier it stinks

What a crock of shit. The club is to blame because they should know who they are signing. I remember buying a crock of shite in a Ford Sierra years ago. I should of looked properly before buying. Can’t see the club (Tan)winning this TBH

Spot on nukesy boy!!i had a ruby on Saturday but it wasn't as nice as it looked on the menu reckon il try for a refund lol

And you would get a refund if it wasn't up to standard tho the agents riped tan off it's as simple as that acorn was available for 1m only a few months earlier it stinks

Up to standard...refund...lol cmon now wez lad get in the real world fella

What a crock of shit. The club is to blame because they should know who they are signing. I remember buying a crock of shite in a Ford Sierra years ago. I should of looked properly before buying. Can’t see the club (Tan)winning this TBH

Spot on nukesy boy!!i had a ruby on Saturday but it wasn't as nice as it looked on the menu reckon il try for a refund lol

And you would get a refund if it wasn't up to standard tho the agents riped tan off it's as simple as that acorn was available for 1m only a few months earlier it stinks

Up to standard...refund...lol cmon now wez lad get in the real world fella

Agents are the curse of the game

What a crock of shit. The club is to blame because they should know who they are signing. I remember buying a crock of shite in a Ford Sierra years ago. I should of looked properly before buying. Can’t see the club (Tan)winning this TBH

Spot on nukesy boy!!i had a ruby on Saturday but it wasn't as nice as it looked on the menu reckon il try for a refund lol

And you would get a refund if it wasn't up to standard tho the agents riped tan off it's as simple as that acorn was available for 1m only a few months earlier it stinks

Up to standard...refund...lol cmon now wez lad get in the real world fella

Agents are the curse of the game

Totally agree with you,just a bit hideous fella in my eyes thats all!its a bit like me saying im taking flannels to court as i reckon i overpaid on my si coat from 4 years ago lol

What a crock of shit. The club is to blame because they should know who they are signing. I remember buying a crock of shite in a Ford Sierra years ago. I should of looked properly before buying. Can’t see the club (Tan)winning this TBH

Nukes, all major contracts were looked at by Tan and some of his main aides, they have messed us for 7 years,thats the real truth.

What a crock of shit. The club is to blame because they should know who they are signing. I remember buying a crock of shite in a Ford Sierra years ago. I should of looked properly before buying. Can’t see the club (Tan)winning this TBH

Nukes, all major contracts were looked at by Tan and some of his main aides, they have messed us for 7 years,thats the real truth.

Annis i was thinking the same

What a crock of shit. The club is to blame because they should know who they are signing. I remember buying a crock of shite in a Ford Sierra years ago. I should of looked properly before buying. Can’t see the club (Tan)winning this TBH

Spot on nukesy boy!!i had a ruby on Saturday but it wasn't as nice as it looked on the menu reckon il try for a refund lol

And you would get a refund if it wasn't up to standard tho the agents riped tan off it's as simple as that acorn was available for 1m only a few months earlier it stinks

Up to standard...refund...lol cmon now wez lad get in the real world fella

Agents are the curse of the game

I think pretty much every football fan the world over would agree with that but I'm not sure this should be Cardiff's crusade. Is it really the morality that's driving this or an expensive folly to save face. This stems from a vendetta by Tan against Malky and his major grievance over the Cornelius transfer. After spending countless monies and an extraordinary amount of legal time investigating this, the failure to get Malky in the dock can only mean one thing - he must have been squeaky clean all the time.

What a crock of shit. The club is to blame because they should know who they are signing. I remember buying a crock of shite in a Ford Sierra years ago. I should of looked properly before buying. Can’t see the club (Tan)winning this TBH

Nukes, all major contracts were looked at by Tan and some of his main aides, they have messed us for 7 years,thats the real truth.

Annis i was thinking the same

Its true Stephen, the main signing were all over seen by Tan and who ever were his CEO'S at the time, rem we've had 6 different ones under Tan and everything had to be given to Tan to study and agree first


Our club has now paid over £3mill in trying to sue different people for fraud and all those cases badly failed, more money waited again.

I was told to move on over the Despicable Rebrand which hurt me more than anything ever has in football, maybe its time Tan should finally move on and stop waisting money

Rem our club run up debts of nearly £180 mill, because we have been so badly run in the last 7 years and Tan & his 6 CEO'S have been running Cardiff City.


We are finally putting things right,all this if Tan persists should be kept out of the Public Domain and concentrate on Neil Warnock/Our Team & Fans

What a crock of shit. The club is to blame because they should know who they are signing. I remember buying a crock of shite in a Ford Sierra years ago. I should of looked properly before buying. Can’t see the club (Tan)winning this TBH

Nukes, all major contracts were looked at by Tan and some of his main aides, they have messed us for 7 years,thats the real truth.

Annis i was thinking the same

Its true Stephen, the main signing were all over seen by Tan and who ever were his CEO'S at the time, rem we've had 6 different ones under Tan and everything had to be given to Tan to study and agree first


Our club has now paid over £3mill in trying to sue different people for fraud and all those cases badly failed, more money waited again.

I was told to move on over the Despicable Rebrand which hurt me more than anything ever has in football, maybe its time Tan should finally move on and stop waisting money

Rem our club run up debts of nearly £180 mill, because we have been so badly run in the last 7 years and Tan & his 6 CEO'S have been running Cardiff City.


We are finally putting things right,all this if Tan persists should be kept out of the Public Domain and concentrate on Neil Warnock/Our Team & Fans

Brilliant statement annis 110% agree with all that you said,lets all just get behind warnock an the lads cmon the city

all contracts would ultimately have been signed by ken choo or the CEO at the time - the only way money would be recoverable would be if they caused themselves or a connected agent to profit themselves with bribes, basically.

we basically made our money back on medel. i don't see how we can recover money? even if we could, the legal fees must be astronomical. seems a waste of everyone's time (except the solicitors).