How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Morgan
Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:44 pm
Trust chair comments on Cardiff City’s accounts
By Keith Morgan
Wed March 8, 2018
Trust News
Trust chair Keith Morgan, aa accountant and football finance expert, gives his analysis of the latest audited accounts for the year ended May 31, 2017 submitted by Cardiff City Football Club (Holdings) Limited.
The following is my commentary on the recently filed audited accounts, which were signed off as approved by the board of directors onFebruary 21, 2018.
Key findings
There was a net loss for the year of £21.1m, which is up substantially from the loss of £8.7m in the previous year.
As a result of the above losses , despite a new share capital injection of £8m created by a conversion of debt into shares by the owner, the net deficit on the balance sheet increased by £13.1m to £80.9m.
The club remains critically dependent upon its owner Tan Sri Vincent Tan, who is by far its largest creditor, for its ongoing financial viability.
The club are confident that, because of all the work to date that has been done to date on the club`s finances, it will be compliant with the Profitability and Sustainability (previously Financial Fair Play) requirements for the period covered by the accounts under review.
Main reasons for increased losses
These can be summarised as follows £m
Decrease in revenue (4.4)
Decrease in wages 4.5
Decrease in exceptional income (8.3)
Increase in finance costs (6.1)
Increase in profit on player sales 3.0
Decrease in administration expenses 3.9
Increase in other costs of sales (4.1)
Other reasons (0.9)
Total (12.4)
Revenue
This fell in the year by £4.4m, primarily as a result of lower income from centralised broadcasting and commercial distributions (which include “parachute payments”) which fell by £4.3m. Gate receipts and match day income also fell by £0.6m, while sponsorship and other commercial income rose by £0.5m.
Wages
The club`s policy of making efforts to reduce its wage bill continued during the year, leading to the substantial fall summarised above. Players` wages and salaries at £20.6m fell to 71.6% of total income compared to the figure of £25.4m in 2015-16 which represented 76.6% of total income.
Lack of exceptional income
In the year to May 31, 2016 the club benefited from a debt write-off of £10m by its owner Tan Sri Vincent Tan. It also benefited from a one-off business rates rebate of £0.4m. Neither of these benefits were repeated in the year to May 31, 2017.
In 2015-16 the club had a cost of £2.2m arising from the termination of certain employee contracts. This cost was not repeated in 2016-17.
The net effect of the above exceptional items not occurring in season 2016-17 was to increase losses by the £8.2m referred to in the above summary.
Increase in finance costs
There are three main elements of this increase in the year
The loan discounting charge on the long term loans provided by the owner increased from £1.2m to £5.8m as a result of a technical accounting treatment required by accounting standards rather than a “trading” cost.
Interest payable on loans provided to the club by Tormen Finance Inc. , in which the club`s Chairman Mehmet Dalman has a significant interest, went up by £1.0m. This was due to the fact that Tormen made further loans of £6m to the club in the year taking the amount owed to it up to £11m as at May 31, 2017. Interest on these loans was charged at a rate of 8% p.a. and the loans were secured over assets of the football group companies.
Other interest payable increased by £0.5m
It should be noted that no interest was paid on the debt due to the club`s owner in the year, all interest accruing (at a stated rate of 7% p.a. on part of the debt) being waived by him and therefore becoming non-payable. This resulted in a saving to the club of approximately £2m in interest charges for the year ended May 31, 2017.
Increase in profit on sale of players
In season 2016-17 the club made a profit of £5.5m from the sale of players (comparing realised sales values with the players` net book value at the date of disposal) compared to a smaller profit of £2.5m in the previous season.
Decrease in administrative costs
This is principally as a result of a reduction of £3.0m in an item “impairment of intangible assets”.
A player`s cost to the club is written off over the length of the contract given to him. So a £3m signing on a three year contract is shown as a cost of £1m in the first year after he is signed, reducing his value in the books to £2m after a year. Every year the club is obliged to compare the total written down cost of the whole squad against their likely real value (sometimes a sale after the season end establishes that value with certainty). At the end of season 2015/16 the club considered the true value to be £3.8m less than the written down value in the books, so made a further charge of that amount in the audited accounts. At the end of season 2016-17 the comparative further write down considered necessary was only £0.8m , so an improvement of £3.0m in this annual cost.
Increase in other costs of sales
Having discussed the matter with the club (as the breakdown is not available in published accounts), the increase in other costs of sale (i.e. excluding player wage costs) results from increased spending on loan players and agents fees, plus some costs associated with early termination of player contracts and some amendments to non-playing staff contracts. The loan costs and some agents fees are instead of expenditure on permanent player contracts, and the contract termination costs will reduce future wages costs for the players involved.
I have no knowledge of who benefitted from improved contracts but, as a fan, if it relates to retaining the management team who have done so well to improve the team on the pitch , then my opinion is that it is money well spent.
The balance sheet
As stated in the key findings near the start of this report, the club had net liabilities of £80.8m as at May 31, 2017. This comprised of £71.2m of assets and £151.9m of liabilities. The various main assets and liabilities are commented on below.
Players
The total recorded value of the playing squad as at May 31, 2017 was £3.4m. A note to the accounts records the fact that the contracts relating to those players over which that value would be written off was of an average 16 months duration. The club added £5.9m of player registrations and released players with an original cost of £9.1m in the year. In season 2015/16 it had added £2.4m of players and released players of cost £2.0m.
The stadium and its contents
This had a value of £51.8m, down from £54.8m in the previous year due to a normal depreciation charge.
Other assets
The club had £9.3m of cash at the balance sheet date.
It had £6.4m due to it, including £1.3m due in respect of football receivables (balance of transfer fees etc.).
Stocks (club shop etc.) were just under £0.2m.
Current liabilities
These were liabilities as at May 31, 2017 payable by May 31, 2018. They totalled £36.1m, of which £11m was due to Tormen Finance (see above) and £8.8m was normal business cost accruals and deferred income (season ticket money for season 2017/18 already received in 2016-17).
Other borrowings of £11.2m represent 3rd party funding (identities unknown) received against the guaranteed future income stream from broadcast revenues (parachute payments).
Non-current liabilities
These fall due for payment sometime afterMay 31, 2018 i.e. more than 12 months after the balance sheet date.
By far the biggest debt due in this category is a debt of £115.1m (of a total of £115.8m) mainly due to the club`s owner Tan Sri Vincent Tan. This amount is £14.3m higher than a year earlier, despite £8m of the earlier debt having been converted into shares during the year indicating that substantial further loans were made by the owner to the club during the 2016/17 season.
Of the above total of £115.1m, £80.5m is non-interest bearing and does not carry an option to convert into shares. The remaining £34.6m is interest bearing at 7% p.a. (but the owner waived his right to interest for the full year) and carries the right to convert into shares at the owner`s option.
After the year end, in June 2017, the owner converted a further £12.7m of debt due to him into shares to improve the balance sheet position.
Summary and conclusions
The club made a net loss of £21.1m in season 2016-17, up £12.4m compared to the loss of £8.7m in the previous season. This was largely as a result of a lack of the benefit of a £10m debt write-off which happened in 2015-16 but was not repeated in 2016-17, coupled with some technical accounting adjustments needed to be made to comply with Accounting Standards (the cost of which was up £4.6m compared to the previous year).
The club are confident, after adjusting for the above technical accounting matter and other costs allowed for under the Profitability and Sustainability regulations, that it will remain compliant with those regulations for the period covered by these reviewed accounts.
The work required to maintain the club`s financial viability remains great , with even more work being required going into season 2018-19 when the club will no longer be in receipt of its parachute payments. This income will need to be replaced by alternative income streams, by further cost reductions or probably by a combination of both.
By Keith Morgan
Wed March 8, 2018
Trust News
Trust chair Keith Morgan, aa accountant and football finance expert, gives his analysis of the latest audited accounts for the year ended May 31, 2017 submitted by Cardiff City Football Club (Holdings) Limited.
The following is my commentary on the recently filed audited accounts, which were signed off as approved by the board of directors onFebruary 21, 2018.
Key findings
There was a net loss for the year of £21.1m, which is up substantially from the loss of £8.7m in the previous year.
As a result of the above losses , despite a new share capital injection of £8m created by a conversion of debt into shares by the owner, the net deficit on the balance sheet increased by £13.1m to £80.9m.
The club remains critically dependent upon its owner Tan Sri Vincent Tan, who is by far its largest creditor, for its ongoing financial viability.
The club are confident that, because of all the work to date that has been done to date on the club`s finances, it will be compliant with the Profitability and Sustainability (previously Financial Fair Play) requirements for the period covered by the accounts under review.
Main reasons for increased losses
These can be summarised as follows £m
Decrease in revenue (4.4)
Decrease in wages 4.5
Decrease in exceptional income (8.3)
Increase in finance costs (6.1)
Increase in profit on player sales 3.0
Decrease in administration expenses 3.9
Increase in other costs of sales (4.1)
Other reasons (0.9)
Total (12.4)
Revenue
This fell in the year by £4.4m, primarily as a result of lower income from centralised broadcasting and commercial distributions (which include “parachute payments”) which fell by £4.3m. Gate receipts and match day income also fell by £0.6m, while sponsorship and other commercial income rose by £0.5m.
Wages
The club`s policy of making efforts to reduce its wage bill continued during the year, leading to the substantial fall summarised above. Players` wages and salaries at £20.6m fell to 71.6% of total income compared to the figure of £25.4m in 2015-16 which represented 76.6% of total income.
Lack of exceptional income
In the year to May 31, 2016 the club benefited from a debt write-off of £10m by its owner Tan Sri Vincent Tan. It also benefited from a one-off business rates rebate of £0.4m. Neither of these benefits were repeated in the year to May 31, 2017.
In 2015-16 the club had a cost of £2.2m arising from the termination of certain employee contracts. This cost was not repeated in 2016-17.
The net effect of the above exceptional items not occurring in season 2016-17 was to increase losses by the £8.2m referred to in the above summary.
Increase in finance costs
There are three main elements of this increase in the year
The loan discounting charge on the long term loans provided by the owner increased from £1.2m to £5.8m as a result of a technical accounting treatment required by accounting standards rather than a “trading” cost.
Interest payable on loans provided to the club by Tormen Finance Inc. , in which the club`s Chairman Mehmet Dalman has a significant interest, went up by £1.0m. This was due to the fact that Tormen made further loans of £6m to the club in the year taking the amount owed to it up to £11m as at May 31, 2017. Interest on these loans was charged at a rate of 8% p.a. and the loans were secured over assets of the football group companies.
Other interest payable increased by £0.5m
It should be noted that no interest was paid on the debt due to the club`s owner in the year, all interest accruing (at a stated rate of 7% p.a. on part of the debt) being waived by him and therefore becoming non-payable. This resulted in a saving to the club of approximately £2m in interest charges for the year ended May 31, 2017.
Increase in profit on sale of players
In season 2016-17 the club made a profit of £5.5m from the sale of players (comparing realised sales values with the players` net book value at the date of disposal) compared to a smaller profit of £2.5m in the previous season.
Decrease in administrative costs
This is principally as a result of a reduction of £3.0m in an item “impairment of intangible assets”.
A player`s cost to the club is written off over the length of the contract given to him. So a £3m signing on a three year contract is shown as a cost of £1m in the first year after he is signed, reducing his value in the books to £2m after a year. Every year the club is obliged to compare the total written down cost of the whole squad against their likely real value (sometimes a sale after the season end establishes that value with certainty). At the end of season 2015/16 the club considered the true value to be £3.8m less than the written down value in the books, so made a further charge of that amount in the audited accounts. At the end of season 2016-17 the comparative further write down considered necessary was only £0.8m , so an improvement of £3.0m in this annual cost.
Increase in other costs of sales
Having discussed the matter with the club (as the breakdown is not available in published accounts), the increase in other costs of sale (i.e. excluding player wage costs) results from increased spending on loan players and agents fees, plus some costs associated with early termination of player contracts and some amendments to non-playing staff contracts. The loan costs and some agents fees are instead of expenditure on permanent player contracts, and the contract termination costs will reduce future wages costs for the players involved.
I have no knowledge of who benefitted from improved contracts but, as a fan, if it relates to retaining the management team who have done so well to improve the team on the pitch , then my opinion is that it is money well spent.
The balance sheet
As stated in the key findings near the start of this report, the club had net liabilities of £80.8m as at May 31, 2017. This comprised of £71.2m of assets and £151.9m of liabilities. The various main assets and liabilities are commented on below.
Players
The total recorded value of the playing squad as at May 31, 2017 was £3.4m. A note to the accounts records the fact that the contracts relating to those players over which that value would be written off was of an average 16 months duration. The club added £5.9m of player registrations and released players with an original cost of £9.1m in the year. In season 2015/16 it had added £2.4m of players and released players of cost £2.0m.
The stadium and its contents
This had a value of £51.8m, down from £54.8m in the previous year due to a normal depreciation charge.
Other assets
The club had £9.3m of cash at the balance sheet date.
It had £6.4m due to it, including £1.3m due in respect of football receivables (balance of transfer fees etc.).
Stocks (club shop etc.) were just under £0.2m.
Current liabilities
These were liabilities as at May 31, 2017 payable by May 31, 2018. They totalled £36.1m, of which £11m was due to Tormen Finance (see above) and £8.8m was normal business cost accruals and deferred income (season ticket money for season 2017/18 already received in 2016-17).
Other borrowings of £11.2m represent 3rd party funding (identities unknown) received against the guaranteed future income stream from broadcast revenues (parachute payments).
Non-current liabilities
These fall due for payment sometime afterMay 31, 2018 i.e. more than 12 months after the balance sheet date.
By far the biggest debt due in this category is a debt of £115.1m (of a total of £115.8m) mainly due to the club`s owner Tan Sri Vincent Tan. This amount is £14.3m higher than a year earlier, despite £8m of the earlier debt having been converted into shares during the year indicating that substantial further loans were made by the owner to the club during the 2016/17 season.
Of the above total of £115.1m, £80.5m is non-interest bearing and does not carry an option to convert into shares. The remaining £34.6m is interest bearing at 7% p.a. (but the owner waived his right to interest for the full year) and carries the right to convert into shares at the owner`s option.
After the year end, in June 2017, the owner converted a further £12.7m of debt due to him into shares to improve the balance sheet position.
Summary and conclusions
The club made a net loss of £21.1m in season 2016-17, up £12.4m compared to the loss of £8.7m in the previous season. This was largely as a result of a lack of the benefit of a £10m debt write-off which happened in 2015-16 but was not repeated in 2016-17, coupled with some technical accounting adjustments needed to be made to comply with Accounting Standards (the cost of which was up £4.6m compared to the previous year).
The club are confident, after adjusting for the above technical accounting matter and other costs allowed for under the Profitability and Sustainability regulations, that it will remain compliant with those regulations for the period covered by these reviewed accounts.
The work required to maintain the club`s financial viability remains great , with even more work being required going into season 2018-19 when the club will no longer be in receipt of its parachute payments. This income will need to be replaced by alternative income streams, by further cost reductions or probably by a combination of both.
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Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking Keith Morg
Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:45 pm
Cardiff City's debt remains at more than £100m, with much of it owed to owner Vincent Tan.
BBC
Wednesday 7th March 2018
Accounts for the year ending May 2017 show the club made losses of over £21.3m, including a £4.35m drop in revenue.
This was despite efforts to cut the player wage bill to £20.6m, an 18% reduction on the previous year.
Accounts recently filed with Companies House state that Tan intends to continue to support the club for the "foreseeable future", with debt to the Malaysian businessman and majority shareholders standing at over £115m at the end of the 2016-17 season.
The accounts state Tan waived interest owed to him up to May 2017, but "continued to make further funds available in order to provide the company with additional working capital".
They show further borrowing of over £22.1m, including £11m owed to Tormen Finance Inc, "a company which a director of Cardiff City Football Club Limited has a significance influence over".
BBC
Wednesday 7th March 2018
Accounts for the year ending May 2017 show the club made losses of over £21.3m, including a £4.35m drop in revenue.
This was despite efforts to cut the player wage bill to £20.6m, an 18% reduction on the previous year.
Accounts recently filed with Companies House state that Tan intends to continue to support the club for the "foreseeable future", with debt to the Malaysian businessman and majority shareholders standing at over £115m at the end of the 2016-17 season.
The accounts state Tan waived interest owed to him up to May 2017, but "continued to make further funds available in order to provide the company with additional working capital".
They show further borrowing of over £22.1m, including £11m owed to Tormen Finance Inc, "a company which a director of Cardiff City Football Club Limited has a significance influence over".
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:18 pm
Fair play that is an excellent factual write up of where we stand as club financially.
Good news debt is slowly going down whilst still trying to juggle with having a competitive squad.
From that Tan is not charging any interest and although did not write any debt in that years accounts has already done so this year.
Keith do you see the issue of the Tormen debt a problem ?
We are now running the club sensibly and it is now time for people to put the past behind them and back the bluebirds to the premier league.
Onwards and upwards
Good news debt is slowly going down whilst still trying to juggle with having a competitive squad.
From that Tan is not charging any interest and although did not write any debt in that years accounts has already done so this year.
Keith do you see the issue of the Tormen debt a problem ?
We are now running the club sensibly and it is now time for people to put the past behind them and back the bluebirds to the premier league.
Onwards and upwards
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:14 pm
Dobbin wrote:Fair play that is an excellent factual write up of where we stand as club financially.
Good news debt is slowly going down whilst still trying to juggle with having a competitive squad.
From that Tan is not charging any interest and although did not write any debt in that years accounts has already done so this year.
Keith do you see the issue of the Tormen debt a problem ?
We are now running the club sensibly and it is now time for people to put the past behind them and back the bluebirds to the premier league.
Onwards and upwards
For some reason I get the feeling that Tormen are the new PMG
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:34 pm
Tony Blue Williams wrote:Dobbin wrote:Fair play that is an excellent factual write up of where we stand as club financially.
Good news debt is slowly going down whilst still trying to juggle with having a competitive squad.
From that Tan is not charging any interest and although did not write any debt in that years accounts has already done so this year.
Keith do you see the issue of the Tormen debt a problem ?
We are now running the club sensibly and it is now time for people to put the past behind them and back the bluebirds to the premier league.
Onwards and upwards
For some reason I get the feeling that Tormen are the new PMG
Hasn't as tan removed all outside debt?
Dalman as a big interest in tormen so doubt if a problem.
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:23 pm
Thanks for the write up. Great read.
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:51 pm
I always thought Dalman will eventually lead a consortium to buy from Vinny.
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:58 pm
More from Keith Morgan:
I have had a quick look back as far as the year ended 31 May 2012. The loss that year was £13m.
From then until May 2017 , the losses have been £30.4m 2013 (I seem to recall that figure included promotion bonuses of around £8m) , £12m in 2014 , a profit of £3.9m in 2015 (this was distorted by the need to apply a new accounting requirement which improved profits by around £13m) , a loss of £8.7m in 2016 and now a loss of £21.1m in 2017.
As for Vincent Tan debt write-offs or debt to equity swaps , there were none prior to the year ended 31 May 2015. In that year there was a debt write=off of £13m , followed by a further write-off of £10m in 2016.
The first debt to equity swap was in 2016/17 and was £8m. In June 2017 (i.e. after the May 2017 accounts year end) , there was a further debt to equity swap of £12.7m
The net liabilities (total liabilities less total assets) total as at 31 May 2017 was £80.8m. It has never been higher to my knowledge. I think the far higher figures people are quoting are the gross debts of the club (i.e. before offsetting the value of assets). For example , in the year to 31 May 2014 , there were gross debts of £157.2m (higher than the £151.9m as at 31 May 2017) , but there were assets of £91.4m to set off against this , taking the net liabilities down to £65.8m.
I have had a quick look back as far as the year ended 31 May 2012. The loss that year was £13m.
From then until May 2017 , the losses have been £30.4m 2013 (I seem to recall that figure included promotion bonuses of around £8m) , £12m in 2014 , a profit of £3.9m in 2015 (this was distorted by the need to apply a new accounting requirement which improved profits by around £13m) , a loss of £8.7m in 2016 and now a loss of £21.1m in 2017.
As for Vincent Tan debt write-offs or debt to equity swaps , there were none prior to the year ended 31 May 2015. In that year there was a debt write=off of £13m , followed by a further write-off of £10m in 2016.
The first debt to equity swap was in 2016/17 and was £8m. In June 2017 (i.e. after the May 2017 accounts year end) , there was a further debt to equity swap of £12.7m
The net liabilities (total liabilities less total assets) total as at 31 May 2017 was £80.8m. It has never been higher to my knowledge. I think the far higher figures people are quoting are the gross debts of the club (i.e. before offsetting the value of assets). For example , in the year to 31 May 2014 , there were gross debts of £157.2m (higher than the £151.9m as at 31 May 2017) , but there were assets of £91.4m to set off against this , taking the net liabilities down to £65.8m.
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:09 pm
2blue2handle wrote:I always thought Dalman will eventually lead a consortium to buy from Vinny.
Maybe when time is right.
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:11 pm
Forever Blue wrote:More from Keith Morgan:
I have had a quick look back as far as the year ended 31 May 2012. The loss that year was £13m.
From then until May 2017 , the losses have been £30.4m 2013 (I seem to recall that figure included promotion bonuses of around £8m) , £12m in 2014 , a profit of £3.9m in 2015 (this was distorted by the need to apply a new accounting requirement which improved profits by around £13m) , a loss of £8.7m in 2016 and now a loss of £21.1m in 2017.
As for Vincent Tan debt write-offs or debt to equity swaps , there were none prior to the year ended 31 May 2015. In that year there was a debt write=off of £13m , followed by a further write-off of £10m in 2016.
The first debt to equity swap was in 2016/17 and was £8m. In June 2017 (i.e. after the May 2017 accounts year end) , there was a further debt to equity swap of £12.7m
The net liabilities (total liabilities less total assets) total as at 31 May 2017 was £80.8m. It has never been higher to my knowledge. I think the far higher figures people are quoting are the gross debts of the club (i.e. before offsetting the value of assets). For example , in the year to 31 May 2014 , there were gross debts of £157.2m (higher than the £151.9m as at 31 May 2017) , but there were assets of £91.4m to set off against this , taking the net liabilities down to £65.8m.
Think leave finances to the experts so many different figures? Main thing club is going right way and hopefully get there in the end.
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:13 pm
8% interest charged on loans made by one of Dalmans companies - wow!
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:34 pm
Gaynor Straight wrote:8% interest charged on loans made by one of Dalmans companies - wow!
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:36 pm
grange_end1927 wrote:Gaynor Straight wrote:8% interest charged on loans made by one of Dalmans companies - wow!
Standard comercial rate! isn't tans the same except he doesn't take it?
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:01 pm
pembroke allan wrote:grange_end1927 wrote:Gaynor Straight wrote:8% interest charged on loans made by one of Dalmans companies - wow!
Standard comercial rate! isn't tans the same except he doesn't take it?
Didn't know it was standard rate. Nice return if it's paid up!
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:03 pm
Gaynor Straight wrote:pembroke allan wrote:grange_end1927 wrote:Gaynor Straight wrote:8% interest charged on loans made by one of Dalmans companies - wow!
Standard comercial rate! isn't tans the same except he doesn't take it?
Didn't know it was standard rate. Nice return if it's paid up!
Well previous loans were 7/8% tans is dalmans is so guess for city it's standard?
mind you hate to think what pmg charged?
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:31 pm
Gaynor Straight wrote:pembroke allan wrote:grange_end1927 wrote:Gaynor Straight wrote:8% interest charged on loans made by one of Dalmans companies - wow!
Standard comercial rate! isn't tans the same except he doesn't take it?
Didn't know it was standard rate. Nice return if it's paid up!
I know I wouldn't put penny into a football club 8% or not.
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:53 pm
Gaynor Straight wrote:8% interest charged on loans made by one of Dalmans companies - wow!
Langstone, PMG and isaacs all charged higher.
Most of them also took wages out of the club. Aren’t Dalman and Choo paid by Tan not the club b?
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Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:53 am
maccydee wrote:Gaynor Straight wrote:8% interest charged on loans made by one of Dalmans companies - wow!
Langstone, PMG and isaacs all charged higher.
Most of them also took wages out of the club. Aren’t Dalman and Choo paid by Tan not the club b?
20% Isaacs
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:12 am
wez1927 wrote:maccydee wrote:Gaynor Straight wrote:8% interest charged on loans made by one of Dalmans companies - wow!
Langstone, PMG and isaacs all charged higher.
Most of them also took wages out of the club. Aren’t Dalman and Choo paid by Tan not the club b?
20% Isaacs
Yes, we may all have our own views on the current regime but one thing is pretty clear; none of them are screwing the club for short-term gain.
They may well be looking at the medium/long-term with a view to making money on their investment but that would, surely, rely on promotion so everyone seems to be pulling in the same direction albeit for, possibly, different reasons
Nice not to have a financial report on impending doom 
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:46 am
Reading accounts has never been my strongest point but the excellent analysis from Keith Morgan summarises it to make it comprehendible.
ps. I too raised an eyebrow at the Tormen/Dalman link and the issue of conflict crossed my mind but as finance is needed I suppose "its better the devil you know."
ps. I too raised an eyebrow at the Tormen/Dalman link and the issue of conflict crossed my mind but as finance is needed I suppose "its better the devil you know."
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:46 pm
piledriver64 wrote:wez1927 wrote:maccydee wrote:Gaynor Straight wrote:8% interest charged on loans made by one of Dalmans companies - wow!
Langstone, PMG and isaacs all charged higher.
Most of them also took wages out of the club. Aren’t Dalman and Choo paid by Tan not the club b?
20% Isaacs
Yes, we may all have our own views on the current regime but one thing is pretty clear; none of them are screwing the club for short-term gain.
They may well be looking at the medium/long-term with a view to making money on their investment but that would, surely, rely on promotion so everyone seems to be pulling in the same direction albeit for, possibly, different reasons
That is the main thing here. Despite Annis attempting to twist it as a bad thing I have just wrote how much better off we are.
What mess? We aren’t selling players for pittance to pay wages. We aren’t in court constantly facing being wound up. We aren’t having transfer embargoes due to FFP or any other reason. We aren’t using next seasons money to pay this months tax/wage bill.
We are positively thriving.
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Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:59 pm
maccydee wrote:piledriver64 wrote:wez1927 wrote:maccydee wrote:Gaynor Straight wrote:8% interest charged on loans made by one of Dalmans companies - wow!
Langstone, PMG and isaacs all charged higher.
Most of them also took wages out of the club. Aren’t Dalman and Choo paid by Tan not the club b?
20% Isaacs
Yes, we may all have our own views on the current regime but one thing is pretty clear; none of them are screwing the club for short-term gain.
They may well be looking at the medium/long-term with a view to making money on their investment but that would, surely, rely on promotion so everyone seems to be pulling in the same direction albeit for, possibly, different reasons
That is the main thing here. Despite Annis attempting to twist it as a bad thing I have just wrote how much better off we are.
What mess? We aren’t selling players for pittance to pay wages. We aren’t in court constantly facing being wound up. We aren’t having transfer embargoes due to FFP or any other reason. We aren’t using next seasons money to pay this months tax/wage bill.
We are positively thriving.
Its certainly nice not to have to think about us going to court, seemed like it was constant for a few years.
Re: How Cardiff City's Accounts/Debts are looking: Keith Mor
Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:10 pm
maccydee wrote:piledriver64 wrote:wez1927 wrote:maccydee wrote:Gaynor Straight wrote:8% interest charged on loans made by one of Dalmans companies - wow!
Langstone, PMG and isaacs all charged higher.
Most of them also took wages out of the club. Aren’t Dalman and Choo paid by Tan not the club b?
20% Isaacs
Yes, we may all have our own views on the current regime but one thing is pretty clear; none of them are screwing the club for short-term gain.
They may well be looking at the medium/long-term with a view to making money on their investment but that would, surely, rely on promotion so everyone seems to be pulling in the same direction albeit for, possibly, different reasons
That is the main thing here. Despite Annis attempting to twist it as a bad thing I have just wrote how much better off we are.
What mess? We aren’t selling players for pittance to pay wages. We aren’t in court constantly facing being wound up. We aren’t having transfer embargoes due to FFP or any other reason. We aren’t using next seasons money to pay this months tax/wage bill.
We are positively thriving.
Spot on. Great post.
