Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:00 am
WelshPatriot wrote:JimCP91 wrote:WelshPatriot wrote:JimCP91 wrote:WelshPatriot wrote:JimCP91 wrote:Rioting to put pressure on the PM to overturn a conviction for a crime he admitted. Quite funny reallz
Maybe get it right before attempting poor sarcasm, they are demonstrating against A. The handling of his case, arrested and sentenced and media blocked all within hours. B. The judge who sentenced him was the judge on the case he was reporting on. C. The harsh sentencing.
Nobody called for his conviction to be overturned but the dealing of it has huge implications.
He broke the law and rightly faced the weight of the law but the way it was dealt with is worrying.
Facts right? Over 70,000 people signed a petition for him to be freed. One of the main speakers there, Geert Wilder (why was he even there?), sole purpose for being there was to demand Robinson be released. In his exact words “you will never walk alone. Free Tommy Robinson.” And lets not forget about the trending #FreeTommy. There’s your facts.
He was sentenced so quickly because he was on a suspended sentence for the exact same crime.
Again your wrong, throughout all your proof you've alluded to there not one says the conviction should be quashed or overturned.
I'll leave it there now I've made my point.
So when people are saying “Free Tommy” what they want is for his conviction to stand, but for it to carry no repercussion?
That is equally as daft, as it is the second time he has been convicted of this crime. What type of message would that send? His actions could have resulted in a mistrial, meaning paedophile rapists could have walked free.
Same discussion last week where i showed countless paedophiles,rapists, muggers etc not receiving custodial sentences yet TR gets 13months in a high security prison. That's the issue. Free Tommy is exactly that he shouldn't be in prison serving 13 months. Take away who it is, forget EDL connections, and surely you can see this isn't correct?
By the way how 5 hours To be arrested, convicted and sentenced and in prison is unheard of despite what you say.
If you think that's fine so be it but let's hope your never nicked and sentenced within 5 hours to a custodial sentence of over year, you may think differently and spray your family.
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:37 am
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:29 am
JimCP91 wrote:
Facts right? Over 70,000 people signed a petition for him to be freed. There’s your facts.
Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:55 am
WelshPatriot wrote:CityBlue93 wrote::laughing5:
Tommy robinson pleaded guilty to every single thing he was accused when he was put infront of a judge, yet these EDL, TR groups all stir up you absolute idiots to protest.
If he was so certain of himself he would have fought the charges he was put up against, but he'd prefer to spend a few months in protected wing of a prison while you raise money for him over online fundraisers, buy EDL merch and give him a backing that he's playing you for.
If that helps you sleep at night in the name of "protecting the cuntry from mooslems" then crack on though
First of all can anyone from the left debate without name calling?
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:13 pm
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:17 pm
splottbluebird48 wrote:I'm working class to the core. Robinson is a racist idiot. He only has himself to blame for being behind bars. If being a decent person makes me a snowflake then I'm more than happy to live with that tag. Ya bunch of right wing melts
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:19 pm
splottbluebird48 wrote:I'm working class to the core. Robinson is a racist idiot. He only has himself to blame for being behind bars. If being a decent person makes me a snowflake then I'm more than happy to live with that tag. Ya bunch of right wing melts
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:20 pm
Flyingpostman wrote:splottbluebird48 wrote:I'm working class to the core. Robinson is a racist idiot. He only has himself to blame for being behind bars. If being a decent person makes me a snowflake then I'm more than happy to live with that tag. Ya bunch of right wing melts
Why even start this thread commenting about all this nonsense, got absolutely nothing to do with football at all . If you want to start arguments go to the daily mail /guardian comments section .
Politics and religion have sod all to do with football and shouldn't be a part of this forum , should be more concerned about which one of the million transfer targets we are linked with will join us .
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:23 pm
splottbluebird48 wrote: Robinson is a racist idiot.
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:37 pm
ealing_ayatollah wrote:splottbluebird48 wrote: Robinson is a racist idiot.
I posted this on a previous thread but just for the sake of those at the back struggling to keep up...
Islamaphobia is not racism.
Racism is the prejudice of someone because of an immutable, aspect of their being - that is something that they had no choice in being and something that they can never change.
Islam is, as are all religions, an ideology which one can choose to follow or not - therefore being anti-Islam is not, never has been and never can be racist.
All other religions and ideologies are open to criticism - Islam itself has anti-semitism baked into its core, surely that should be open to discussion? Or does a Muslim's antisemitism get overlooked simply because they are perceived to be a more of a minority to rally behind?
That is not only incorrect (there are appx 1.8 Billion Muslims in the world compared to just 15 Million Jews) but it's also a perfect example of the bigotry of low expectations - i.e. taking the view that Muslim's are not capable of discussing their religion's flaws so they need special protection and allowances to make things fair. How about just letting them sink or swim by the same rules as everyone else?
Islam simply needs to be held to the same accountability standards as any other religion/ideology - that is not oppression, that is equality.
By throwing the word racist around like confetti people are devaluing it's true meaning and actually normalizing real racism - which 99% of people I know would stand against. (and just to clarify the 1% can go do one as far as I'm concerned)
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:38 pm
Flyingpostman wrote:splottbluebird48 wrote:I'm working class to the core. Robinson is a racist idiot. He only has himself to blame for being behind bars. If being a decent person makes me a snowflake then I'm more than happy to live with that tag. Ya bunch of right wing melts
Why even start this thread commenting about all this nonsense, got absolutely nothing to do with football at all . If you want to start arguments go to the daily mail /guardian comments section .
Politics and religion have sod all to do with football and shouldn't be a part of this forum , should be more concerned about which one of the million transfer targets we are linked with will join us .
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:41 pm
JimCP91 wrote:ealing_ayatollah wrote:splottbluebird48 wrote: Robinson is a racist idiot.
I posted this on a previous thread but just for the sake of those at the back struggling to keep up...
Islamaphobia is not racism.
Racism is the prejudice of someone because of an immutable, aspect of their being - that is something that they had no choice in being and something that they can never change.
Islam is, as are all religions, an ideology which one can choose to follow or not - therefore being anti-Islam is not, never has been and never can be racist.
All other religions and ideologies are open to criticism - Islam itself has anti-semitism baked into its core, surely that should be open to discussion? Or does a Muslim's antisemitism get overlooked simply because they are perceived to be a more of a minority to rally behind?
That is not only incorrect (there are appx 1.8 Billion Muslims in the world compared to just 15 Million Jews) but it's also a perfect example of the bigotry of low expectations - i.e. taking the view that Muslim's are not capable of discussing their religion's flaws so they need special protection and allowances to make things fair. How about just letting them sink or swim by the same rules as everyone else?
Islam simply needs to be held to the same accountability standards as any other religion/ideology - that is not oppression, that is equality.
By throwing the word racist around like confetti people are devaluing it's true meaning and actually normalizing real racism - which 99% of people I know would stand against. (and just to clarify the 1% can go do one as far as I'm concerned)
I think many Muslims, and believers of other faiths too, would argue they were born into faith and it is not a choice consciously made.
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:43 pm
ealing_ayatollah wrote:JimCP91 wrote:ealing_ayatollah wrote:splottbluebird48 wrote: Robinson is a racist idiot.
I posted this on a previous thread but just for the sake of those at the back struggling to keep up...
Islamaphobia is not racism.
Racism is the prejudice of someone because of an immutable, aspect of their being - that is something that they had no choice in being and something that they can never change.
Islam is, as are all religions, an ideology which one can choose to follow or not - therefore being anti-Islam is not, never has been and never can be racist.
All other religions and ideologies are open to criticism - Islam itself has anti-semitism baked into its core, surely that should be open to discussion? Or does a Muslim's antisemitism get overlooked simply because they are perceived to be a more of a minority to rally behind?
That is not only incorrect (there are appx 1.8 Billion Muslims in the world compared to just 15 Million Jews) but it's also a perfect example of the bigotry of low expectations - i.e. taking the view that Muslim's are not capable of discussing their religion's flaws so they need special protection and allowances to make things fair. How about just letting them sink or swim by the same rules as everyone else?
Islam simply needs to be held to the same accountability standards as any other religion/ideology - that is not oppression, that is equality.
By throwing the word racist around like confetti people are devaluing it's true meaning and actually normalizing real racism - which 99% of people I know would stand against. (and just to clarify the 1% can go do one as far as I'm concerned)
I think many Muslims, and believers of other faiths too, would argue they were born into faith and it is not a choice consciously made.
Yeah, a fair point and I'm prepared to concede that Islam is the only religion that acts like the mafia and has a death sentence for those that leave so it is only the very brave (Ayan Hirsi Ali for example) that actually bother to do so...
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:49 pm
ealing_ayatollah wrote:Flyingpostman wrote:splottbluebird48 wrote:I'm working class to the core. Robinson is a racist idiot. He only has himself to blame for being behind bars. If being a decent person makes me a snowflake then I'm more than happy to live with that tag. Ya bunch of right wing melts
Why even start this thread commenting about all this nonsense, got absolutely nothing to do with football at all . If you want to start arguments go to the daily mail /guardian comments section .
Politics and religion have sod all to do with football and shouldn't be a part of this forum , should be more concerned about which one of the million transfer targets we are linked with will join us .
Not having a go mate but wouldn't it be easier to just not post on the thread if its not of interest?
As you said there are tons of posts linking us to about half the players in the league at the minute. There is one thread on politics/religion on the main page out of 80 and it's about a major protest that happened yesterday.
Plenty of other football/City related discussion to be had - go fill yer boots
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:04 pm
JimCP91 wrote:ealing_ayatollah wrote:JimCP91 wrote:ealing_ayatollah wrote:splottbluebird48 wrote: Robinson is a racist idiot.
I posted this on a previous thread but just for the sake of those at the back struggling to keep up...
Islamaphobia is not racism.
Racism is the prejudice of someone because of an immutable, aspect of their being - that is something that they had no choice in being and something that they can never change.
Islam is, as are all religions, an ideology which one can choose to follow or not - therefore being anti-Islam is not, never has been and never can be racist.
All other religions and ideologies are open to criticism - Islam itself has anti-semitism baked into its core, surely that should be open to discussion? Or does a Muslim's antisemitism get overlooked simply because they are perceived to be a more of a minority to rally behind?
That is not only incorrect (there are appx 1.8 Billion Muslims in the world compared to just 15 Million Jews) but it's also a perfect example of the bigotry of low expectations - i.e. taking the view that Muslim's are not capable of discussing their religion's flaws so they need special protection and allowances to make things fair. How about just letting them sink or swim by the same rules as everyone else?
Islam simply needs to be held to the same accountability standards as any other religion/ideology - that is not oppression, that is equality.
By throwing the word racist around like confetti people are devaluing it's true meaning and actually normalizing real racism - which 99% of people I know would stand against. (and just to clarify the 1% can go do one as far as I'm concerned)
I think many Muslims, and believers of other faiths too, would argue they were born into faith and it is not a choice consciously made.
Yeah, a fair point and I'm prepared to concede that Islam is the only religion that acts like the mafia and has a death sentence for those that leave so it is only the very brave (Ayan Hirsi Ali for example) that actually bother to do so...
Not in Turkey or Morocco but they do have the death penalty in the US and China.
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:04 pm
Flyingpostman wrote:ealing_ayatollah wrote:Flyingpostman wrote:splottbluebird48 wrote:I'm working class to the core. Robinson is a racist idiot. He only has himself to blame for being behind bars. If being a decent person makes me a snowflake then I'm more than happy to live with that tag. Ya bunch of right wing melts
Why even start this thread commenting about all this nonsense, got absolutely nothing to do with football at all . If you want to start arguments go to the daily mail /guardian comments section .
Politics and religion have sod all to do with football and shouldn't be a part of this forum , should be more concerned about which one of the million transfer targets we are linked with will join us .
Not having a go mate but wouldn't it be easier to just not post on the thread if its not of interest?
As you said there are tons of posts linking us to about half the players in the league at the minute. There is one thread on politics/religion on the main page out of 80 and it's about a major protest that happened yesterday.
Plenty of other football/City related discussion to be had - go fill yer boots
Fair comment , i'll be off then
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:15 pm
If that is the case why were so many of his followers doing Nazi salutes which epitomises Fascismealing_ayatollah wrote:splottbluebird48 wrote: Robinson is a racist idiot.
I posted this on a previous thread but just for the sake of those at the back struggling to keep up...
Islamaphobia is not racism.
Racism is the prejudice of someone because of an immutable, aspect of their being - that is something that they had no choice in being and something that they can never change.
Islam is, as are all religions, an ideology which one can choose to follow or not - therefore being anti-Islam is not, never has been and never can be racist.
All other religions and ideologies are open to criticism - Islam itself has anti-semitism baked into its core, surely that should be open to discussion? Or does a Muslim's antisemitism get overlooked simply because they are perceived to be a more of a minority to rally behind?
That is not only incorrect (there are appx 1.8 Billion Muslims in the world compared to just 15 Million Jews) but it's also a perfect example of the bigotry of low expectations - i.e. taking the view that Muslim's are not capable of discussing their religion's flaws so they need special protection and allowances to make things fair. How about just letting them sink or swim by the same rules as everyone else?
Islam simply needs to be held to the same accountability standards as any other religion/ideology - that is not oppression, that is equality.
By throwing the word racist around like confetti people are devaluing it's true meaning and actually normalizing real racism - which 99% of people I know would stand against. (and just to clarify the 1% can go do one as far as I'm concerned)
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:38 pm
JimCP91 wrote: But basically, you’re trying to protect yourself as logic and reason has backed you into a corner. To dislike somebody based on their religion is as ignorant as it gets. Around 25% of the world is Islamic. How you can have pre perceived opinions on that amount of people is insane.
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:45 pm
splottbluebird48 wrote:If that is the case why were so many of his followers doing Nazi salutes which epitomises Fascism
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:50 pm
ealing_ayatollah wrote:splottbluebird48 wrote:If that is the case why were so many of his followers doing Nazi salutes which epitomises Fascism
He called out those given Nazi Salutes in 2013 and the fact that Far Right groups had taken a foothold in the EDL whilst he was in prison was one of the reasons he left (that and the deal with Quilliam)
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/edl- ... 53809.html
Seriously dude, try reading just a little bit about the topic beyond the headlines that you're fed by a highly biased mainstream media
His presentation at Oxford University is a good starting point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YQ94jFg_4A
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:02 pm
splottbluebird48 wrote:ealing_ayatollah wrote:splottbluebird48 wrote:If that is the case why were so many of his followers doing Nazi salutes which epitomises Fascism
He called out those given Nazi Salutes in 2013 and the fact that Far Right groups had taken a foothold in the EDL whilst he was in prison was one of the reasons he left (that and the deal with Quilliam)
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/edl- ... 53809.html
Seriously dude, try reading just a little bit about the topic beyond the headlines that you're fed by a highly biased mainstream media
His presentation at Oxford University is a good starting point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YQ94jFg_4A
we can all go on about debates online akala destroying him so what
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:17 pm
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:24 pm
splottbluebird48 wrote:I will concede that what Robinson has been sent down for Is an outmoded and fairly stupid law, but for now it is the law and will be seized on by defence lawyers to try to collapse trials – so needs to be followed
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:28 pm
ealing_ayatollah wrote:splottbluebird48 wrote:I will concede that what Robinson has been sent down for Is an outmoded and fairly stupid law, but for now it is the law and will be seized on by defence lawyers to try to collapse trials – so needs to be followed
Fair play - I'll agree with you on that and leave it there whilst we're both on common ground
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:30 pm
splottbluebird48 wrote:I will concede that what Robinson has been sent down for Is an outmoded and fairly stupid law, but for now it is the law and will be seized on by defence lawyers to try to collapse trials – so needs to be followed
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:37 pm
JimCP91 wrote:WelshPatriot wrote:JimCP91 wrote:WelshPatriot wrote:JimCP91 wrote:WelshPatriot wrote:JimCP91 wrote:Rioting to put pressure on the PM to overturn a conviction for a crime he admitted. Quite funny reallz
Maybe get it right before attempting poor sarcasm, they are demonstrating against A. The handling of his case, arrested and sentenced and media blocked all within hours. B. The judge who sentenced him was the judge on the case he was reporting on. C. The harsh sentencing.
Nobody called for his conviction to be overturned but the dealing of it has huge implications.
He broke the law and rightly faced the weight of the law but the way it was dealt with is worrying.
Facts right? Over 70,000 people signed a petition for him to be freed. One of the main speakers there, Geert Wilder (why was he even there?), sole purpose for being there was to demand Robinson be released. In his exact words “you will never walk alone. Free Tommy Robinson.” And lets not forget about the trending #FreeTommy. There’s your facts.
He was sentenced so quickly because he was on a suspended sentence for the exact same crime.
Again your wrong, throughout all your proof you've alluded to there not one says the conviction should be quashed or overturned.
I'll leave it there now I've made my point.
So when people are saying “Free Tommy” what they want is for his conviction to stand, but for it to carry no repercussion?
That is equally as daft, as it is the second time he has been convicted of this crime. What type of message would that send? His actions could have resulted in a mistrial, meaning paedophile rapists could have walked free.
Same discussion last week where i showed countless paedophiles,rapists, muggers etc not receiving custodial sentences yet TR gets 13months in a high security prison. That's the issue. Free Tommy is exactly that he shouldn't be in prison serving 13 months. Take away who it is, forget EDL connections, and surely you can see this isn't correct?
By the way how 5 hours To be arrested, convicted and sentenced and in prison is unheard of despite what you say.
If you think that's fine so be it but let's hope your never nicked and sentenced within 5 hours to a custodial sentence of over year, you may think differently and spray your family.
The reason it was so quick wasn’t because it was Tommy Robinson but because it was contempt of court. The convictions are usually done within a day to stop the case being disrupted further. This is actuallynormal for the type of charge.
He was jailed because he was already on a suspended sentence for the same charge.
I agree with the argument of people walking free for charges that are more severe, but that is another argument and discussion in itself.
Robinson was rightly convicted and as mentioned, his actions could have resulted in paedophile rapists walking free.
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:38 pm
JimCP91 wrote:splottbluebird48 wrote:I will concede that what Robinson has been sent down for Is an outmoded and fairly stupid law, but for now it is the law and will be seized on by defence lawyers to try to collapse trials – so needs to be followed
Not sure it is a stupid law. It is there to make sure trials are fair, it works pretty well.
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:42 pm
WelshPatriot wrote:JimCP91 wrote:WelshPatriot wrote:JimCP91 wrote:WelshPatriot wrote:JimCP91 wrote:WelshPatriot wrote:JimCP91 wrote:Rioting to put pressure on the PM to overturn a conviction for a crime he admitted. Quite funny reallz
Maybe get it right before attempting poor sarcasm, they are demonstrating against A. The handling of his case, arrested and sentenced and media blocked all within hours. B. The judge who sentenced him was the judge on the case he was reporting on. C. The harsh sentencing.
Nobody called for his conviction to be overturned but the dealing of it has huge implications.
He broke the law and rightly faced the weight of the law but the way it was dealt with is worrying.
Facts right? Over 70,000 people signed a petition for him to be freed. One of the main speakers there, Geert Wilder (why was he even there?), sole purpose for being there was to demand Robinson be released. In his exact words “you will never walk alone. Free Tommy Robinson.” And lets not forget about the trending #FreeTommy. There’s your facts.
He was sentenced so quickly because he was on a suspended sentence for the exact same crime.
Again your wrong, throughout all your proof you've alluded to there not one says the conviction should be quashed or overturned.
I'll leave it there now I've made my point.
So when people are saying “Free Tommy” what they want is for his conviction to stand, but for it to carry no repercussion?
That is equally as daft, as it is the second time he has been convicted of this crime. What type of message would that send? His actions could have resulted in a mistrial, meaning paedophile rapists could have walked free.
Same discussion last week where i showed countless paedophiles,rapists, muggers etc not receiving custodial sentences yet TR gets 13months in a high security prison. That's the issue. Free Tommy is exactly that he shouldn't be in prison serving 13 months. Take away who it is, forget EDL connections, and surely you can see this isn't correct?
By the way how 5 hours To be arrested, convicted and sentenced and in prison is unheard of despite what you say.
If you think that's fine so be it but let's hope your never nicked and sentenced within 5 hours to a custodial sentence of over year, you may think differently and spray your family.
The reason it was so quick wasn’t because it was Tommy Robinson but because it was contempt of court. The convictions are usually done within a day to stop the case being disrupted further. This is actuallynormal for the type of charge.
He was jailed because he was already on a suspended sentence for the same charge.
I agree with the argument of people walking free for charges that are more severe, but that is another argument and discussion in itself.
Robinson was rightly convicted and as mentioned, his actions could have resulted in paedophile rapists walking free.
Where do you get your information that it's normal for a contempt of court case to be arrested, convicted and sentenced within 5 hours is normal. It isn't. Unless you can show me otherwise?
His actions could have meant the jury being dismissed for a new one as qualified by the judge who sent him down not the collapse of the case itself.
Your blinded by a real dislike for TR and fail to look at it from another perspective.
Like I said let's pray your never arrested and sent down in 5 hours.
Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:16 pm
ealing_ayatollah wrote:splottbluebird48 wrote:ealing_ayatollah wrote:splottbluebird48 wrote:If that is the case why were so many of his followers doing Nazi salutes which epitomises Fascism
He called out those given Nazi Salutes in 2013 and the fact that Far Right groups had taken a foothold in the EDL whilst he was in prison was one of the reasons he left (that and the deal with Quilliam)
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/edl- ... 53809.html
Seriously dude, try reading just a little bit about the topic beyond the headlines that you're fed by a highly biased mainstream media
His presentation at Oxford University is a good starting point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YQ94jFg_4A
we can all go on about debates online akala destroying him so what
If you're talking about the show I'm thinking of it was less of a debate and more let's all point at the racist whilst we shut him down every time he makes a valid point. It was virtue signalling of the highest order and Akala made some very dubious comments to score cheap points during that debate (for example listing all the great things that came out of the Islamic world but forgetting to mention things like Slavery which also was another Islamic first).
Look if you want to live in an echo chamber and only ever see one side of a conversation that's your choice and I hope it works out for you. Personally, I'd rather try to make judgements based on evidence and facts, and that involves listening to both sides of the discussion.
Each to their own though
Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:26 pm
splottbluebird48 wrote:I'm working class to the core. Robinson is a racist idiot. He only has himself to blame for being behind bars. If being a decent person makes me a snowflake then I'm more than happy to live with that tag. Ya bunch of right wing melts