O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary Resigns

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:25 am

Jock wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
Jock wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
wez1927 wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:The thing about Brexit, whether you voted for it or not, is that there was so little due diligence, whatif scenarios and investigations done before the referendum as to what Brexit would look like that we should never really have had the vote when we did. It was very premature. There should have been at least 3 years investigations as to the ramifications and what likely deals we could strike on the different negotiation items before the vote. Then I feel people would have been better informed. As it happens people voted with very little information (from both sides) which of course opened the door to emotional media manipulation.

Also, even if Brexit is, in the long term, right for the country, we have completely incompetent people trying to strike deals which they are not equipped or skilled to do. Eventually the EU will tell us to just f**k off and make decisions for us.

The conservatives and Labour are completely incompetent.

Let's be frank, it's a clusterfuck.


These ramifications are all a load of nonsense anyway because nobody can predict these sorts of things, seeing it now with "this is how much worse off we will be in certain scenarios" but it has too many factors attached to it to be believable.

for me the core principle should be, should we be a country who stands on our own but still deals with europe, or should we be involved in a united europe where collective decisions are made for everyone. and then we can just go from there



There should have been more due diligence. For example, discussions with NI and ROI about the border should have taken place, now it seems surprising that its a contentious issue, made worse by the Tories bribing the DUP to join a coalition. Like I said, clusterfuck.

But yeah I agree with your last point.


Good response and for me it would be a collective Europe every time. With loons like Trump and menaces like Putin around this is no time to ditch our friends. I work on the united we stand principle.

We are leaving the eu not nato or europe ffs you speak some tosh :lol:


Ah you're right but it's the EU that's key to peace, not relying on that thick piece of shit Trump. NATO with him involved is dead in the water.

Yes the EU kept everyone safe in the Balkans.
Why should the Yanks subsidise everyone else inNATO, the agreement was for members to spend 2% of GDP on defence, the majority have failed to do this.


The EU was formed to restrain Germany you utter tool not the Balkans and NATO really kept the lid on it didn't it. The Yanks can afford to pay more than anyone else and a secure Europe is in their national interest. If they don't like it they can go and bomb the f**k out of North Korea if they like

Can’t win the argument play the man not the ball.
The EU/Common Market was formed solely to stop the Krauts invading neighbouring countries Bwhahahahaha.
So the Yanks and ourselves incidentally, should subsidise Germany’s defence?? Your simply a crank.


Nice try pal but perfect bullshit
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary Resigns

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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby T1JMO » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:27 am

Bananas wrote:
T1JMO wrote:
Bananas wrote:Wales in a strong EU - yes please :old:


In your dreams mate! Not long until we are out of the thing just like we voted for and still would.

:laughing6: another DULL voter :laughing6: that's why they are all resigning u tool :thumbup:


The only dull ones are the remoners who haven't woken up yet! :wave:
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby pembroke allan » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:29 am

What's the argument about? We had a referendum both sides told porkies just like do in general elections? And like general election the people had choice of what to vote and they voted out thats a democracy! But it appears that those who want to remain in Europe dont like the decision and want another vote and probably another until they get right result thats a Funny sort of democracy, :o you can argue black& blue the rights and wrongs of leaving Europe but the fact is majority of people wanted out and remainders should except that fact not bleat about it being wrong decision for minority. :thumbup:
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Wayne S » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:30 am

Bananas wrote:That's why they are all resigning u tool :thumbup:


Why do you think they are resigning Bananas?
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Steve Zodiak » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:40 am

What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby pembroke allan » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:53 am

Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.




Steve it is a case of we are right your wrong so we must have a vote until we win that will then prove that we were right all along? :laughing6:
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:58 am

Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.


The point is Steve this was a referendum many of us didn't want and it was foisted upon us by a Tory government which we despise. My argument is that I'm a fanatical Remainers and many, maybe like you, are fanatical Leavers. There's not a hope on he'll of any of us agreeing be cause our views are poralised. What we do have I'm common though is that we are highly engaged with the issue, often ignore facts because we are so wedded to our beliefs, and remain obstinately stubborn.

However, like all voting patterns the outcome is decided by the floating voters and I would argue many more of them than us are now undecided. In the last 2 years so much information has emerged which runs counter to what was presented to them at the time of the referendum. I'm not asking to change your views just like you couldn't change mine, but in the interests of democracy don't you think people who might be worried about their future deserve another opportunity to vote? If Leavers were so convinced it would return the same result you'd think they would be happy because it would seal the issue in their favour for a generation.
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:01 am

pembroke allan wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.




Steve it is a case of we are right your wrong so we must have a vote until we win that will then prove that we were right all along? :laughing6:


No nothing to do with that Allan. If that were the case why did we have a second referendum in 2016 to reverse the first one?
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary Resigns

Postby dogfound » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:05 am

City Slicker wrote:
dogfound wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
That was the second vote and wasn't clear enough. The third one would be better proposed with people more aware of the ramifications. Youre bviously a mad keen Leaver, why are you shit scared? Are you afraid public opinion has changed?



What are the ramifications?


How long have you got?


a lot more than you im sure



Why, are you out of work?


i wish

so what are the ramifications?




Damn, this must be a long list..... :happy1:


Well I'm not sure if you've been able to engage with the political debate over the last 20 years but I'm sure if someone could help you out and point you in the right direction then you might find your answer there but I'm sorry I haven't got time to help you out. Oh, and you're damned right, it's a mighty long list :thumbup:



these ramifications are the cornerstone of the remain / 2nd election people though...
yet time and time again its rants about Boris, union jacks, the end of the tory party and vague threats about financial meltdown.. ...and no real answer...
truth be told if any of these ramifications could be proved there would be overwhelming demands from the public and our government for a rethink 2nd vote...there is not.
nobody knows, wild guesses counter guesses ..predictions and counter predictions, promises and counter promises..people took sides ..voted..and the losers havent accepted it..


This is the typical Leaver stance....not so much head in the sand but stubbornness. You've actually just confirmed my pitch because all recent opinion polls show the trend for a growing number of people wanting a third vote. This is such a monumental economic and political project for the country which could lead to catastrophic consequences it certainly shouldn't have been left to a simple majority vote to decide. But I guess you won so what the hell do you care. To the victor the spoils and the devil take the hindmost.



HOW DID I WIN when i did not vote.
tbh mate i was there to be convinced which i was not by either side....my observations are what they are you only have to READ through this thread..brexiteers who remain brexiteers...democrats that did not vote who think brexit should go ahead...democratic remainers who think brexit should go ahead because its democratic...NOBODY who voted brexit but has changed their mind..
as for opinion polls...what result did they predict..?
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby pembroke allan » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:10 am

City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.




Steve it is a case of we are right your wrong so we must have a vote until we win that will then prove that we were right all along? :laughing6:


No nothing to do with that Allan. If that were the case why did we have a second referendum in 2016 to reverse the first one?




Simple fact is 1st one was to join common market it is now not the common market but a union state in all but name and undemocraticaly elected people running it ? the 2nd vote was to leave this entity and the people didnt want to stay did they? Now you and your like want another vote because you didn't like result of 1st vote? :thumbup:
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Jock » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:12 am

Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.

The pro EU media heavily pushed the Remainers are younger and better educated than Brexit supporters line relentlessly , every BBC clip had an articulate middle class remainer but the Brexit supporting member of the public interviewed was always a half pissed idiot, in a pub in Dudley who didn’t like darkies. One Cambridge Academic claimed Brexit Voters wanted to re establish the British Empire.
My take on it as a working class boy is this. Labour turned its back on the true working class, the Tories never really gave a fekk about us anyway, the EUs open borders policies depressed the wages of ordinary people, meanwhile the super rich got richer while the rest of us got poorer (quantitive easing) the system is not working for us it’s time for change. The EU is failing the majority.
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Jock » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:14 am

pembroke allan wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.




Steve it is a case of we are right your wrong so we must have a vote until we win that will then prove that we were right all along? :laughing6:


No nothing to do with that Allan. If that were the case why did we have a second referendum in 2016 to reverse the first one?




Simple fact is 1st one was to join common market it is now not the common market but a union state in all but name and undemocraticaly elected people running it ? the 2nd vote was to leave this entity and the people didnt want to stay did they? Now you and your like want another vote because you didn't like result of 1st vote? :thumbup:

Like the SNP a once in a lifetime referendum........a couple of years on and they’re agitating for a rerun.
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:26 am

pembroke allan wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.




Steve it is a case of we are right your wrong so we must have a vote until we win that will then prove that we were right all along? :laughing6:


No nothing to do with that Allan. If that were the case why did we have a second referendum in 2016 to reverse the first one?




Simple fact is 1st one was to join common market it is now not the common market but a union state in all but name and undemocraticaly elected people running it ? the 2nd vote was to leave this entity and the people didnt want to stay did they? Now you and your like want another vote because you didn't like result of 1st vote? :thumbup:


When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby dogfound » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:32 am

City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.




Steve it is a case of we are right your wrong so we must have a vote until we win that will then prove that we were right all along? :laughing6:


No nothing to do with that Allan. If that were the case why did we have a second referendum in 2016 to reverse the first one?




Simple fact is 1st one was to join common market it is now not the common market but a union state in all but name and undemocraticaly elected people running it ? the 2nd vote was to leave this entity and the people didnt want to stay did they? Now you and your like want another vote because you didn't like result of 1st vote? :thumbup:


When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:



best out of three..?
will the 3rd one be on neutral ground..?
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:35 am

City Slicker wrote:
The point is Steve this was a referendum many of us didn't want and it was foisted upon us by a Tory government which we despise. My argument is that I'm a fanatical Remainers and many, maybe like you, are fanatical Leavers. There's not a hope on he'll of any of us agreeing be cause our views are poralised. What we do have I'm common though is that we are highly engaged with the issue, often ignore facts because we are so wedded to our beliefs, and remain obstinately stubborn.

However, like all voting patterns the outcome is decided by the floating voters and I would argue many more of them than us are now undecided. In the last 2 years so much information has emerged which runs counter to what was presented to them at the time of the referendum. I'm not asking to change your views just like you couldn't change mine, but in the interests of democracy don't you think people who might be worried about their future deserve another opportunity to vote? If Leavers were so convinced it would return the same result you'd think they would be happy because it would seal the issue in their favour for a generation.


There is no evidence whatsoever that there has been a huge shift of opinion since the referendum no matter how much you would like to 'argue' to the contrary. Polls I have seen roughly have the same split 52-48.

However, there is a great shift in those who voted to remain who now just want the Government to get on with the job and get the UK out of the EU, in other words they have democratically accepted the 2016 result.
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:41 am

City Slicker wrote:
When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:


The flaw in that thinking is the younger generation will grow older and change their views accordingly.
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:49 am

dogfound wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.




Steve it is a case of we are right your wrong so we must have a vote until we win that will then prove that we were right all along? :laughing6:


No nothing to do with that Allan. If that were the case why did we have a second referendum in 2016 to reverse the first one?




Simple fact is 1st one was to join common market it is now not the common market but a union state in all but name and undemocraticaly elected people running it ? the 2nd vote was to leave this entity and the people didnt want to stay did they? Now you and your like want another vote because you didn't like result of 1st vote? :thumbup:


When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:



best out of three..?
will the 3rd one be on neutral ground..?


1 was enough, why 2? And if 2 why not many?
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:51 am

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:


The flaw in that thinking is the younger generation will grow older and change their views accordingly.


That's an interesting proposition Tony but I don't think it'll work that way. Younger people are more internationalist than previous generations and more pragmatic. But of course who can say for certain?
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby BlueMoon1974 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:52 am

Steve Zodiak wrote:
BlueMoon1974 wrote:Soft runny brexit it is then. Too many jobs if we go out on wtt

Peoole not educated enough on the subject when vote happened. Too many sheep heads didnt no full ramifications


Yep. Only the remainers had the intelligence to know what it was all about. Rest of us (which happened to be the majority) too thick to know what we were voting for.


Apologies people, what im trying to say is that a high percentage and not all of the leave vote didn't understand what they were voting for. However, there was obviusly a lot who new their subject matter. Being the vote was so close and it broke electoral law a peoples vote on the final deal is needed.
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:55 am

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
The point is Steve this was a referendum many of us didn't want and it was foisted upon us by a Tory government which we despise. My argument is that I'm a fanatical Remainers and many, maybe like you, are fanatical Leavers. There's not a hope on he'll of any of us agreeing be cause our views are poralised. What we do have I'm common though is that we are highly engaged with the issue, often ignore facts because we are so wedded to our beliefs, and remain obstinately stubborn.

However, like all voting patterns the outcome is decided by the floating voters and I would argue many more of them than us are now undecided. In the last 2 years so much information has emerged which runs counter to what was presented to them at the time of the referendum. I'm not asking to change your views just like you couldn't change mine, but in the interests of democracy don't you think people who might be worried about their future deserve another opportunity to vote? If Leavers were so convinced it would return the same result you'd think they would be happy because it would seal the issue in their favour for a generation.


There is no evidence whatsoever that there has been a huge shift of opinion since the referendum no matter how much you would like to 'argue' to the contrary. Polls I have seen roughly have the same split 52-48.

However, there is a great shift in those who voted to remain who now just want the Government to get on with the job and get the UK out of the EU, in other words they have democratically accepted the 2016 result.


A Survation poll yesterday showed a Remain majority by 5 points and roughly a 10% majority for a third vote. Of course it's early days anyway, were walking on shifting sands. Wait till the prospect of a no deal. People are entitled to change their minds on such a big issue you know. Anyway, my question remains ...why are Leavers so afraid of another vote?
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Jock » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:57 am

City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:


The flaw in that thinking is the younger generation will grow older and change their views accordingly.


That's an interesting proposition Tony but I don't think it'll work that way. Younger people are more internationalist than previous generations and more pragmatic. But of course who can say for certain?

This generation is more pragmatic? fekkme that’s your best yet.
Anyone showing pragmatism is branded a racist xenophobe by the loony left.
Jock
 
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Jock » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:58 am

BlueMoon1974 wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
BlueMoon1974 wrote:Soft runny brexit it is then. Too many jobs if we go out on wtt

Peoole not educated enough on the subject when vote happened. Too many sheep heads didnt no full ramifications


Yep. Only the remainers had the intelligence to know what it was all about. Rest of us (which happened to be the majority) too thick to know what we were voting for.


Apologies people, what im trying to say is that a high percentage and not all of the leave vote didn't understand what they were voting for. However, there was obviusly a lot who new their subject matter. Being the vote was so close and it broke electoral law a peoples vote on the final deal is needed.

So hat were remainers voting for, tell me your not so stupid you actually think it was the status quo.
Jock
 
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:00 am

Jock wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:


The flaw in that thinking is the younger generation will grow older and change their views accordingly.


That's an interesting proposition Tony but I don't think it'll work that way. Younger people are more internationalist than previous generations and more pragmatic. But of course who can say for certain?

This generation is more pragmatic? fekkme that’s your best yet.
Anyone showing pragmatism is branded a racist xenophobe by the loony left.


And where did you read that, Noddy and Big Ears Politics Annual written by Nigel Farage (aged 3 and a half)? :lol:
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby dogfound » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:02 am

City Slicker wrote:
dogfound wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.




Steve it is a case of we are right your wrong so we must have a vote until we win that will then prove that we were right all along? :laughing6:


No nothing to do with that Allan. If that were the case why did we have a second referendum in 2016 to reverse the first one?




Simple fact is 1st one was to join common market it is now not the common market but a union state in all but name and undemocraticaly elected people running it ? the 2nd vote was to leave this entity and the people didnt want to stay did they? Now you and your like want another vote because you didn't like result of 1st vote? :thumbup:


When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:



best out of three..?
will the 3rd one be on neutral ground..?


1 was enough, why 2? And if 2 why not many?



exactly...keep going until youi get the result you want...happened here over the assembly and i expect it to happen in Scotland regarding independence...your either serious about democracy or not ,a vote should mean something..not this democracy bingo that some people want these days.
if you keep having re votes people will stop going to pointlessly vote..democracy dies..
Last edited by dogfound on Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
dogfound
 
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Jock » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:02 am

City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
The point is Steve this was a referendum many of us didn't want and it was foisted upon us by a Tory government which we despise. My argument is that I'm a fanatical Remainers and many, maybe like you, are fanatical Leavers. There's not a hope on he'll of any of us agreeing be cause our views are poralised. What we do have I'm common though is that we are highly engaged with the issue, often ignore facts because we are so wedded to our beliefs, and remain obstinately stubborn.

However, like all voting patterns the outcome is decided by the floating voters and I would argue many more of them than us are now undecided. In the last 2 years so much information has emerged which runs counter to what was presented to them at the time of the referendum. I'm not asking to change your views just like you couldn't change mine, but in the interests of democracy don't you think people who might be worried about their future deserve another opportunity to vote? If Leavers were so convinced it would return the same result you'd think they would be happy because it would seal the issue in their favour for a generation.


There is no evidence whatsoever that there has been a huge shift of opinion since the referendum no matter how much you would like to 'argue' to the contrary. Polls I have seen roughly have the same split 52-48.

However, there is a great shift in those who voted to remain who now just want the Government to get on with the job and get the UK out of the EU, in other words they have democratically accepted the 2016 result.


A Survation poll yesterday showed a Remain majority by 5 points and roughly a 10% majority for a third vote. Of course it's early days anyway, were walking on shifting sands. Wait till the prospect of a no deal. People are entitled to change their minds on such a big issue you know. Anyway, my question remains ...why are Leavers so afraid of another vote?

Afraid??? We voted leave and got a fudge, what difference would a second referendum make. Your pal George Soros and his globalist cabal will spike every attempt to have a clean break. You claim socialist credentials yet align yourself with the Globalists. Do you think globalisation has benefitted the working class in Britain?
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Jock » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:04 am

City Slicker wrote:
Jock wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:


The flaw in that thinking is the younger generation will grow older and change their views accordingly.


That's an interesting proposition Tony but I don't think it'll work that way. Younger people are more internationalist than previous generations and more pragmatic. But of course who can say for certain?

This generation is more pragmatic? fekkme that’s your best yet.
Anyone showing pragmatism is branded a racist xenophobe by the loony left.


And where did you read that, Noddy and Big Ears Politics Annual written by Nigel Farage (aged 3 and a half)? :lol:

Rather than throw childish insults perhaps you can demonstrate how this generation is more pragmatic than previous ones.
Jock
 
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Jock » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:05 am

dogfound wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
dogfound wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.




Steve it is a case of we are right your wrong so we must have a vote until we win that will then prove that we were right all along? :laughing6:


No nothing to do with that Allan. If that were the case why did we have a second referendum in 2016 to reverse the first one?




Simple fact is 1st one was to join common market it is now not the common market but a union state in all but name and undemocraticaly elected people running it ? the 2nd vote was to leave this entity and the people didnt want to stay did they? Now you and your like want another vote because you didn't like result of 1st vote? :thumbup:


When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:



best out of three..?
will the 3rd one be on neutral ground..?


1 was enough, why 2? And if 2 why not many?



exactly...keep going until youi get the result you want...happened here over the assembly and i expect it to happen in Scotland regarding independence...your either serious about democracy or not ,a vote should mean something..not this democracy bingo that some people want these days.
if you keep having re votes people will stop going to pointlessly vote..democracy dies..

Perhaps that’s the end game.
Jock
 
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby dogfound » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:43 am

Jock wrote:
dogfound wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
dogfound wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.




Steve it is a case of we are right your wrong so we must have a vote until we win that will then prove that we were right all along? :laughing6:


No nothing to do with that Allan. If that were the case why did we have a second referendum in 2016 to reverse the first one?




Simple fact is 1st one was to join common market it is now not the common market but a union state in all but name and undemocraticaly elected people running it ? the 2nd vote was to leave this entity and the people didnt want to stay did they? Now you and your like want another vote because you didn't like result of 1st vote? :thumbup:


When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:



best out of three..?
will the 3rd one be on neutral ground..?


1 was enough, why 2? And if 2 why not many?



exactly...keep going until youi get the result you want...happened here over the assembly and i expect it to happen in Scotland regarding independence...your either serious about democracy or not ,a vote should mean something..not this democracy bingo that some people want these days.
if you keep having re votes people will stop going to pointlessly vote..democracy dies..

Perhaps that’s the end game.



its crossed my mind mate.....i know my attitude to going to vote has changed a lot in my lifetime..once upon a time i attached huge importance to registering my vote win or lose..not so much now...
dogfound
 
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:52 am

Jock wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
Jock wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:


The flaw in that thinking is the younger generation will grow older and change their views accordingly.


That's an interesting proposition Tony but I don't think it'll work that way. Younger people are more internationalist than previous generations and more pragmatic. But of course who can say for certain?

This generation is more pragmatic? fekkme that’s your best yet.
Anyone showing pragmatism is branded a racist xenophobe by the loony left.


And where did you read that, Noddy and Big Ears Politics Annual written by Nigel Farage (aged 3 and a half)? :lol:

Rather than throw childish insults perhaps you can demonstrate how this generation is more pragmatic than previous ones.


You call that a childish insult? :lol: The younger generation are more pragmatic because they are not hidebound by stupid ideas of race, religion nationality, empire, sovereignty etc al. You may not accept it because that would make you feel uncomfortable but there it is. At the end of the day I've got no hope of persuading someone like you, your mind was made up long ago so if you want to ignore what's happening in the world to make you feel better that's fine by me
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Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:58 am

dogfound wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
dogfound wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.




Steve it is a case of we are right your wrong so we must have a vote until we win that will then prove that we were right all along? :laughing6:


No nothing to do with that Allan. If that were the case why did we have a second referendum in 2016 to reverse the first one?




Simple fact is 1st one was to join common market it is now not the common market but a union state in all but name and undemocraticaly elected people running it ? the 2nd vote was to leave this entity and the people didnt want to stay did they? Now you and your like want another vote because you didn't like result of 1st vote? :thumbup:


When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:



best out of three..?
will the 3rd one be on neutral ground..?


1 was enough, why 2? And if 2 why not many?



exactly...keep going until youi get the result you want...happened here over the assembly and i expect it to happen in Scotland regarding independence...your either serious about democracy or not ,a vote should mean something..not this democracy bingo that some people want these days.
if you keep having re votes people will stop going to pointlessly vote..democracy dies..


Ah you've missed the point again I see. We had a referendum in 1975 so what difference would having a third in post 2016 be to already having a second in 2016? The precedent has been set. Why should anything be set in stone? That's truly undemocratic. Anyway, of you bothered to read my posts carefully you'd notice I'm wholly against referendums anyway and I didn't want the second one. You'll be telling me we should stop having general elections next.
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