O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

A forum for all things Cardiff City

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:07 pm

City Slicker wrote:
A Survation poll yesterday showed a Remain majority by 5 points and roughly a 10% majority for a third vote. Of course it's early days anyway, were walking on shifting sands. Wait till the prospect of a no deal. People are entitled to change their minds on such a big issue you know. Anyway, my question remains ...why are Leavers so afraid of another vote?


I could throw that right back at you and ask why are remain voters so afraid of accepting a democratic vote?

I haven't seen the poll you refer to which if true is one in isolation, but if you took a poll of poll's since 2016 the ground swell is still roughly the same.
User avatar
Tony Blue Williams
 
Posts: 12664
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:25 am

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Advertisement

Advertisement
Login or Register to remove this ad.

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:13 pm

City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:


The flaw in that thinking is the younger generation will grow older and change their views accordingly.


That's an interesting proposition Tony but I don't think it'll work that way. Younger people are more internationalist than previous generations and more pragmatic. But of course who can say for certain?


No you can't say for certain what will happen to the younger generations outlook as they grow older. But on the evidence of previous generations their thinking will shift once they have their own jobs, housing, children and health issues begin to affect them and of course when they no longer have the security of their own Mum and Dad. :D
User avatar
Tony Blue Williams
 
Posts: 12664
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:25 am

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:17 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
A Survation poll yesterday showed a Remain majority by 5 points and roughly a 10% majority for a third vote. Of course it's early days anyway, were walking on shifting sands. Wait till the prospect of a no deal. People are entitled to change their minds on such a big issue you know. Anyway, my question remains ...why are Leavers so afraid of another vote?


I could throw that right back at you and ask why are remain voters so afraid of accepting a democratic vote?

I haven't seen the poll you refer to which if true is one in isolation, but if you took a poll of poll's since 2016 the ground swell is still roughly the same.


I think your second paragraph is way off the mark and just helps to console yourself. You must have missed several recent polls which indicate there is trend for support of another vote and also more of a Remain preference. But of course you are free to believe what you wish.

With regard to your first point I do not believe a simple majority referendum on such a major issue is valid. On such an important issue which will have crucial consequences and has ripped the country in two a supermajority was needed. Public opinion is shifting continually as more and more information comes to light. Why should anything be set in stone when it's likely to prove divisive? That would be really undemocratic
City Slicker
 
Posts: 5123
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:00 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:23 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:


The flaw in that thinking is the younger generation will grow older and change their views accordingly.


That's an interesting proposition Tony but I don't think it'll work that way. Younger people are more internationalist than previous generations and more pragmatic. But of course who can say for certain?


No you can't say for certain what will happen to the younger generations outlook as they grow older. But on the evidence of previous generations their thinking will shift once they have their own jobs, housing, children and health issues begin to affect them and of course when they no longer have the security of their own Mum and Dad. :D


No I think in terms of this issue the opposite is true. More youngsters will be anxious about the effects on jobs, housing , health etc. and decide they are better sticking with the status quo rather than take a leap into the unknown. As more youngsters are not so concerned about race, religion, sovereignty etc.as older generations are that makes a huge difference.
City Slicker
 
Posts: 5123
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:00 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:39 pm

City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
A Survation poll yesterday showed a Remain majority by 5 points and roughly a 10% majority for a third vote. Of course it's early days anyway, were walking on shifting sands. Wait till the prospect of a no deal. People are entitled to change their minds on such a big issue you know. Anyway, my question remains ...why are Leavers so afraid of another vote?


I could throw that right back at you and ask why are remain voters so afraid of accepting a democratic vote?

I haven't seen the poll you refer to which if true is one in isolation, but if you took a poll of poll's since 2016 the ground swell is still roughly the same.


I think your second paragraph is way off the mark and just helps to console yourself. You must have missed several recent polls which indicate there is trend for support of another vote and also more of a Remain preference. But of course you are free to believe what you wish.

With regard to your first point I do not believe a simple majority referendum on such a major issue is valid. On such an important issue which will have crucial consequences and has ripped the country in two a supermajority was needed. Public opinion is shifting continually as more and more information comes to light. Why should anything be set in stone when it's likely to prove divisive? That would be really undemocratic


There are often Polls after General Elections which show the sitting Government to be unpopular but that doesn't mean another General Election must be called :roll: so the same principle applies to referendum.

You seem to use the phrase 'I do/don't believe something' as a way of justification. Whilst you are entitled to your opinion your 'belief' does not override a democratic vote.

We all knew that the vote on 23rd June 2016 was a referendum for a generation (generally accepted as 25 years) on our membership of the European Union. We voted to leave. If an individual wanted information on the consequences then it was readily available including a pamphlet sent to every home by the Government @ a cost of £9m which explained leaving meant leaving the Customs Union and Single Market.

Whilst it is true not everything has to be set in stone, we also have to look the chaos of rerunning referendum every 5 minutes will cause because there will always be someone unhappy with the result.

The call has been made we have to live with it and it's consequences.
User avatar
Tony Blue Williams
 
Posts: 12664
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:25 am

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby paulh_85 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:41 pm

User avatar
paulh_85
 
Posts: 11013
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:20 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:41 pm

City Slicker wrote:
No I think in terms of this issue the opposite is true. More youngsters will be anxious about the effects on jobs, housing , health etc. and decide they are better sticking with the status quo rather than take a leap into the unknown. As more youngsters are not so concerned about race, religion, sovereignty etc.as older generations are that makes a huge difference.


The flaw in that reply is the status quo by the time this younger generation grows older will be outside the EU :roll: So you have completely shot yourself in the foot :oops:
User avatar
Tony Blue Williams
 
Posts: 12664
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:25 am

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:44 pm

paulh_85 wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-remain-vote-leave-live-latest-who-will-win-results-populus-a7097261.html


This is why polls are pointless. :laughing6:


Nice one Paul :thumbup: take note City Slicker :lol:
User avatar
Tony Blue Williams
 
Posts: 12664
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:25 am

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby dogfound » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:53 pm

City Slicker wrote:
dogfound wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
dogfound wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.




Steve it is a case of we are right your wrong so we must have a vote until we win that will then prove that we were right all along? :laughing6:


No nothing to do with that Allan. If that were the case why did we have a second referendum in 2016 to reverse the first one?




Simple fact is 1st one was to join common market it is now not the common market but a union state in all but name and undemocraticaly elected people running it ? the 2nd vote was to leave this entity and the people didnt want to stay did they? Now you and your like want another vote because you didn't like result of 1st vote? :thumbup:


When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:



best out of three..?
will the 3rd one be on neutral ground..?


1 was enough, why 2? And if 2 why not many?



exactly...keep going until youi get the result you want...happened here over the assembly and i expect it to happen in Scotland regarding independence...your either serious about democracy or not ,a vote should mean something..not this democracy bingo that some people want these days.
if you keep having re votes people will stop going to pointlessly vote..democracy dies..


Ah you've missed the point again I see. We had a referendum in 1975 so what difference would having a third in post 2016 be to already having a second in 2016? The precedent has been set. Why should anything be set in stone? That's truly undemocratic. Anyway, of you bothered to read my posts carefully you'd notice I'm wholly against referendums anyway and I didn't want the second one. You'll be telling me we should stop having general elections next.



ughhh//what point..?
was answering Jocks end game remark about voting in general..
its you that should re read the thread mate ...youve lost about 46 nil { not against me, because im not making brexit points } but against anyone and everyone that can string 3 words together..
dogfound
 
Posts: 6305
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:52 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:55 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
No I think in terms of this issue the opposite is true. More youngsters will be anxious about the effects on jobs, housing , health etc. and decide they are better sticking with the status quo rather than take a leap into the unknown. As more youngsters are not so concerned about race, religion, sovereignty etc.as older generations are that makes a huge difference.


The flaw in that reply is the status quo by the time this younger generation grows older will be outside the EU :roll: So you have completely shot yourself in the foot :oops:


Not really for two reasons:

1. We haven't left yet
2. We can always vote to get back in if we did leave

No gun so no bullets in my foot :thumbup:
City Slicker
 
Posts: 5123
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:00 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:58 pm

dogfound wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
dogfound wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
dogfound wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.




Steve it is a case of we are right your wrong so we must have a vote until we win that will then prove that we were right all along? :laughing6:


No nothing to do with that Allan. If that were the case why did we have a second referendum in 2016 to reverse the first one?




Simple fact is 1st one was to join common market it is now not the common market but a union state in all but name and undemocraticaly elected people running it ? the 2nd vote was to leave this entity and the people didnt want to stay did they? Now you and your like want another vote because you didn't like result of 1st vote? :thumbup:


When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:



best out of three..?
will the 3rd one be on neutral ground..?


1 was enough, why 2? And if 2 why not many?



exactly...keep going until youi get the result you want...happened here over the assembly and i expect it to happen in Scotland regarding independence...your either serious about democracy or not ,a vote should mean something..not this democracy bingo that some people want these days.
if you keep having re votes people will stop going to pointlessly vote..democracy dies..


Ah you've missed the point again I see. We had a referendum in 1975 so what difference would having a third in post 2016 be to already having a second in 2016? The precedent has been set. Why should anything be set in stone? That's truly undemocratic. Anyway, of you bothered to read my posts carefully you'd notice I'm wholly against referendums anyway and I didn't want the second one. You'll be telling me we should stop having general elections next.



ughhh//what point..?
was answering Jocks end game remark about voting in general..
its you that should re read the thread mate ...youve lost about 46 nil { not against me, because im not making brexit points } but against anyone and everyone that can string 3 words together..


I ain't lost anything mate. I was referring to your flawed logic, which isn't difficult to do
City Slicker
 
Posts: 5123
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:00 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:03 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-remain-vote-leave-live-latest-who-will-win-results-populus-a7097261.html


This is why polls are pointless. :laughing6:


Nice one Paul :thumbup: take note City Slicker :lol:


Oh I get you a poll or two were wrong 2 years ago so I'm assuming now that will invalidate all future polls. In any case polls are only useful for indicating trends. As I've said previously the third referendum will happen for the same reason the other two did and that's for political expediency.
City Slicker
 
Posts: 5123
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:00 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Jock » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:49 pm

City Slicker wrote:
Jock wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
Jock wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:


The flaw in that thinking is the younger generation will grow older and change their views accordingly.


That's an interesting proposition Tony but I don't think it'll work that way. Younger people are more internationalist than previous generations and more pragmatic. But of course who can say for certain?

This generation is more pragmatic? fekkme that’s your best yet.
Anyone showing pragmatism is branded a racist xenophobe by the loony left.


And where did you read that, Noddy and Big Ears Politics Annual written by Nigel Farage (aged 3 and a half)? :lol:

Rather than throw childish insults perhaps you can demonstrate how this generation is more pragmatic than previous ones.


You call that a childish insult? :lol: The younger generation are more pragmatic because they are not hidebound by stupid ideas of race, religion nationality, empire, sovereignty etc al. You may not accept it because that would make you feel uncomfortable but there it is. At the end of the day I've got no hope of persuading someone like you, your mind was made up long ago so if you want to ignore what's happening in the world to make you feel better that's fine by me

Until a couple of weeks before the referendum I was undecided how I was going to vote, mainly because I knew it would be a nightmare leaving such a beuqacratic behemoth.
Race: people’s race is not a factor for me in anything I do
Religion: I have no religion but don’t try and force my view on anyone else.
Nationality: proud to be British, we have given the World so much that is good.
Empire: seriously :lol:
Sovereignty: is important and one of the reasons I voted leave.
You seem to want to pigeonhole people who disagree with you and you’ve failed to show how this generation are more pragmatic than previous ones.
Jock
 
Posts: 1565
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby dogfound » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:58 pm

City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-remain-vote-leave-live-latest-who-will-win-results-populus-a7097261.html


This is why polls are pointless. :laughing6:


Nice one Paul :thumbup: take note City Slicker :lol:


Oh I get you a poll or two were wrong 2 years ago so I'm assuming now that will invalidate all future polls. In any case polls are only useful for indicating trends. As I've said previously the third referendum will happen for the same reason the other two did and that's for political expediency.



a poll or two...get real.
i thought pragmatic { a word your fond of } means being sensible and reasonable..?
you though dismiss facts out of hand..make large statements which you are unable to back up, instead saying things like you dont have the time to explain :lol: :lol: :lol:
dogfound
 
Posts: 6305
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:52 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby pembroke allan » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:43 pm

City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.




Steve it is a case of we are right your wrong so we must have a vote until we win that will then prove that we were right all along? :laughing6:


No nothing to do with that Allan. If that were the case why did we have a second referendum in 2016 to reverse the first one?




Simple fact is 1st one was to join common market it is now not the common market but a union state in all but name and undemocraticaly elected people running it ? the 2nd vote was to leave this entity and the people didnt want to stay did they? Now you and your like want another vote because you didn't like result of 1st vote? :thumbup:


When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:





Wtf are you talking about? You haven't answered the point I made you just used politicians speak to mask answer? Again 1st vote was for common market which was instigated by tories! This vote instigated by tories is all about leaving Europe (which by is a totally different concept to what was voted for previously) the people voted out same as they voted in previously thats democracy? Was there calls for 2nd vote then no there wasn't, so why do you want a 2nd vote now?
we don't ask for 2nd vote if your party doesnt win general election so why have one for europe? Don't get you want another vote to confirm things what happens if that one goes against 2nd vote? Best of 5 !! :laughing6:
User avatar
pembroke allan
 
Posts: 15679
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Cardiff

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby ealing_ayatollah » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:56 pm

There's a certain irony in the fact that our trying to leave a wholly undemocratic unelected authoritarian state is being hampered by a wholly undemocratic move by an unelected leader showing authoritarian tendencies.

She's now relying on Labour to help her deliver this lame ass 'in name only Brexit' how long will that last you think?

She needs to go and fast - Mogg the kingmaker to let Boris finish what he was destined to do before Gove stabbed him in the back is our only chance to make this work now. Pull all deals off the table and offer up two options - a similar deal to Canada/Singapore or we walk and go WTO.

The EU is crumbling and we hold all the aces - christ I'd love to get into a game of poker with Theresa the Appeaser I'd walk away with the keys to Number 10!

I try to live my life under the assumption most mistakes in life are down to stupidity rather than malice but I'm really struggling to figure anyone could screw something up this much without really trying.
:banghead:
I'm just a wine drinking monkey that has a penchant for fine bannanas. You can check out my human alter-ego singing and speaking nonsense on the you tube if you like @ https://www.youtube.com/user/sibaronimusic
User avatar
ealing_ayatollah
 
Posts: 955
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:29 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:03 pm

dogfound wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-remain-vote-leave-live-latest-who-will-win-results-populus-a7097261.html


This is why polls are pointless. :laughing6:


Nice one Paul :thumbup: take note City Slicker :lol:


Oh I get you a poll or two were wrong 2 years ago so I'm assuming now that will invalidate all future polls. In any case polls are only useful for indicating trends. As I've said previously the third referendum will happen for the same reason the other two did and that's for political expediency.



a poll or two...get real.
i thought pragmatic { a word your fond of } means being sensible and reasonable..?
you though dismiss facts out of hand..make large statements which you are unable to back up, instead saying things like you dont have the time to explain :lol: :lol: :lol:


Time to cut back on the juice pal :lol: :lol: :lol:
City Slicker
 
Posts: 5123
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:00 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Steve Zodiak » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:14 pm

pembroke allan wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:What gets me is that the remainers seem to think they know more about everything than those who voted leave. They had access to exactly the same information as everyone else, and made an informed choice based on the same information that the leave voters also had access to. I respect their decision even if it was different to mine, and I don't try to tell them that they were given a lot of duff information, and I don't tell them that I know better than them. I read up on the same stuff as they did, like many of them I remember a time when we were not in the Common Market, and came to a decision. Only time will tell if I made the correct choice, but I don't buy into this nonsense that us leave voters did not know what we were voting for while the remainers know exactly what the future holds when we leave. Most of their predictions have not come to fruition yet, so it would appear that they know no more than us poor uneducated leave voters.




Steve it is a case of we are right your wrong so we must have a vote until we win that will then prove that we were right all along? :laughing6:


No nothing to do with that Allan. If that were the case why did we have a second referendum in 2016 to reverse the first one?




Simple fact is 1st one was to join common market it is now not the common market but a union state in all but name and undemocraticaly elected people running it ? the 2nd vote was to leave this entity and the people didnt want to stay did they? Now you and your like want another vote because you didn't like result of 1st vote? :thumbup:


When there is a critical mass of opinion that wants another vote there will be one. It's how politics work. I didn't want a second vote anyway so it's nothing to do with the result. To be honest, if the second vote was a Remain victory I would still want a third vote to confirm it and seal the thing. In any case it's out of our hands, it will be the younger generation who will kick this into touch :thumbup:





Wtf are you talking about? You haven't answered the point I made you just used politicians speak to mask answer? Again 1st vote was for common market which was instigated by tories! This vote instigated by tories is all about leaving Europe (which by is a totally different concept to what was voted for previously) the people voted out same as they voted in previously thats democracy? Was there calls for 2nd vote then no there wasn't, so why do you want a 2nd vote now?
we don't ask for 2nd vote if your party doesnt win general election so why have one for europe? Don't get you want another vote to confirm things what happens if that one goes against 2nd vote? Best of 5 !! :laughing6:


I voted the first time around when we had the referendum to stay in The Common Market. I voted yes because the Common Market was completely different to what we have now. I certainly did not vote to hand over so much regulation to what was to become the EU. The remainers say those who voted leave do not know the consequences of their action, well those like me who voted in favour of the Common Market had no idea of what the future held by us voting yes. Had I known, my vote would have been one big no.
Steve Zodiak
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:42 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby worcester_ccfc » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:33 pm

Two of the vice chairs of the Conservatives, Maria Caulfield and Ben Bradley, have resigned due to the Chequers agreement.

Even if there isn’t a no confidence vote, which she would probably win at the moment in my view, she has to change her Brexit plan.

If she sticks to it and wins a no confidence vote, then the Brexiteers will just vote down all of her proposals - making her job impossible.
Vote for your Man of the Match on this forum after every Cardiff City match, and your Player of the Month every month during the season :ayatollah:

Season ticket holder in Ninian 116 :bluebird:

@neddthomas on Twitter.

:bluescarf: :bluescarf: :bluescarf:
User avatar
worcester_ccfc
Admin
 
Posts: 11214
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:30 am

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:47 pm

City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
No I think in terms of this issue the opposite is true. More youngsters will be anxious about the effects on jobs, housing , health etc. and decide they are better sticking with the status quo rather than take a leap into the unknown. As more youngsters are not so concerned about race, religion, sovereignty etc.as older generations are that makes a huge difference.


The flaw in that reply is the status quo by the time this younger generation grows older will be outside the EU :roll: So you have completely shot yourself in the foot :oops:


Not really for two reasons:

1. We haven't left yet
2. We can always vote to get back in if we did leave

No gun so no bullets in my foot :thumbup:


Read this slowly so you can understand. We are leaving the EU in March 2019 so by the time the younger generation have grown up we would have been out for some considerable time :roll: :roll:

As for a vote to return is this another of your mythical beliefs which seems to be your backstop each time your arguments flounder?

If I was you I would check both your feet.
User avatar
Tony Blue Williams
 
Posts: 12664
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:25 am

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:55 pm

City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-remain-vote-leave-live-latest-who-will-win-results-populus-a7097261.html


This is why polls are pointless. :laughing6:


Nice one Paul :thumbup: take note City Slicker :lol:


Oh I get you a poll or two were wrong 2 years ago so I'm assuming now that will invalidate all future polls. In any case polls are only useful for indicating trends. As I've said previously the third referendum will happen for the same reason the other two did and that's for political expediency.


The pollsters also got both recent General Elections wrong. Mind you still plenty of Polls claiming different to you see this one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... laims.html
User avatar
Tony Blue Williams
 
Posts: 12664
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:25 am

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:59 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
No I think in terms of this issue the opposite is true. More youngsters will be anxious about the effects on jobs, housing , health etc. and decide they are better sticking with the status quo rather than take a leap into the unknown. As more youngsters are not so concerned about race, religion, sovereignty etc.as older generations are that makes a huge difference.


The flaw in that reply is the status quo by the time this younger generation grows older will be outside the EU :roll: So you have completely shot yourself in the foot :oops:


Not really for two reasons:

1. We haven't left yet
2. We can always vote to get back in if we did leave

No gun so no bullets in my foot :thumbup:


Read this slowly so you can understand. We are leaving the EU in March 2019 so by the time the younger generation have grown up we would have been out for some considerable time :roll: :roll:

As for a vote to return is this another of your mythical beliefs which seems to be your backstop each time your arguments flounder?

If I was you I would check both your feet.


I read that so slowly I nearly fell asleep, it seems to say exactly what you said before, do you have a problem repeating yourself?

1 Check your diary.....it's not March 2019 yet you dummy. We are not certain to leave.

2. Even if we do leave we may well decide to get back in. What's so difficult to understand about that?

I've checked my feet and they're fine
Have you checked your brain?
City Slicker
 
Posts: 5123
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:00 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:01 pm

worcester_ccfc wrote:Two of the vice chairs of the Conservatives, Maria Caulfield and Ben Bradley, have resigned due to the Chequers agreement.

Even if there isn’t a no confidence vote, which she would probably win at the moment in my view, she has to change her Brexit plan.

If she sticks to it and wins a no confidence vote, then the Brexiteers will just vote down all of her proposals - making her job impossible.


The only card she still holds is the fear that bringing her down could force a General Election and a Labour Government.

However, I believe it will be Tory grassroots that will do for her. They will see this Chequers Agreement nonsense as total betrayal of the BREXIT dream and when the EU start demanding more concessions (including payments to access the Single Market) then there will be no hope for her.
User avatar
Tony Blue Williams
 
Posts: 12664
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:25 am

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Steve Zodiak » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:01 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-remain-vote-leave-live-latest-who-will-win-results-populus-a7097261.html


This is why polls are pointless. :laughing6:


Nice one Paul :thumbup: take note City Slicker :lol:


Oh I get you a poll or two were wrong 2 years ago so I'm assuming now that will invalidate all future polls. In any case polls are only useful for indicating trends. As I've said previously the third referendum will happen for the same reason the other two did and that's for political expediency.


The pollsters also got both recent General Elections wrong. Mind you still plenty of Polls claiming different to you see this one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... laims.html


I think another referendum would have the same result Tony. It would lead to the same claims by the remain campaign that we do not know what we have voted for, and every obstacle possible would be put in the way to delay or stop the process. In all probability, they would push for yet another vote as democracy does not seem to form part of their vocabulary.
Steve Zodiak
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:42 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:03 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-remain-vote-leave-live-latest-who-will-win-results-populus-a7097261.html


This is why polls are pointless. :laughing6:


Nice one Paul :thumbup: take note City Slicker :lol:


Oh I get you a poll or two were wrong 2 years ago so I'm assuming now that will invalidate all future polls. In any case polls are only useful for indicating trends. As I've said previously the third referendum will happen for the same reason the other two did and that's for political expediency.


The pollsters also got both recent General Elections wrong. Mind you still plenty of Polls claiming different to you see this one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... laims.html


Polls are sometimes right, sometimes they're wrong, c'est let vie.
City Slicker
 
Posts: 5123
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:00 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby City Slicker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:06 pm

Steve Zodiak wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-remain-vote-leave-live-latest-who-will-win-results-populus-a7097261.html


This is why polls are pointless. :laughing6:


Nice one Paul :thumbup: take note City Slicker :lol:


Oh I get you a poll or two were wrong 2 years ago so I'm assuming now that will invalidate all future polls. In any case polls are only useful for indicating trends. As I've said previously the third referendum will happen for the same reason the other two did and that's for political expediency.


The pollsters also got both recent General Elections wrong. Mind you still plenty of Polls claiming different to you see this one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... laims.html


I think another referendum would have the same result Tony. It would lead to the same claims by the remain campaign that we do not know what we have voted for, and every obstacle possible would be put in the way to delay or stop the process. In all probability, they would push for yet another vote as democracy does not seem to form part of their vocabulary.


And you don't believe the same of leavers. Ask Mr Farage his opinion, he was the first to suggest we should have another referendum
City Slicker
 
Posts: 5123
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:00 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:10 pm

City Slicker wrote:
I read that so slowly I nearly fell asleep, it seems to say exactly what you said before, do you have a problem repeating yourself?

1 Check your diary.....it's not March 2019 yet you dummy. We are not certain to leave.

2. Even if we do leave we may well decide to get back in. What's so difficult to understand about that?

I've checked my feet and they're fine
Have you checked your brain?


Today is the 10th July 2017. So young people will still be young tomorrow and the same in 10 months time. However, when they grow older by say a generation (25 years) we would have exited the EU along time ago and thus the status quo would be outside the EU. You made a fundamental mistake end of.

Also the referendum was for a generation normally measured at 25 years, although it was 41 years between the first two. What I find hard to understand is how you know there is going to another vote, you speak as if it is a certainty in the short term?

Or are we back to these dodgy Polls you rely on :lol: Seriously mate you are very poor debater

Waffle on all you want the above won't change.
User avatar
Tony Blue Williams
 
Posts: 12664
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:25 am

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Jock » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:12 pm

ealing_ayatollah wrote:There's a certain irony in the fact that our trying to leave a wholly undemocratic unelected authoritarian state is being hampered by a wholly undemocratic move by an unelected leader showing authoritarian tendencies.

She's now relying on Labour to help her deliver this lame ass 'in name only Brexit' how long will that last you think?

She needs to go and fast - Mogg the kingmaker to let Boris finish what he was destined to do before Gove stabbed him in the back is our only chance to make this work now. Pull all deals off the table and offer up two options - a similar deal to Canada/Singapore or we walk and go WTO.

The EU is crumbling and we hold all the aces - christ I'd love to get into a game of poker with Theresa the Appeaser I'd walk away with the keys to Number 10!

I try to live my life under the assumption most mistakes in life are down to stupidity rather than malice but I'm really struggling to figure anyone could screw something up this much without really trying.
:banghead:

Your usual pragmatic take on things. It really is as simple as you posted, the EU is a busted flush.
Jock
 
Posts: 1565
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:13 pm

Steve Zodiak wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-remain-vote-leave-live-latest-who-will-win-results-populus-a7097261.html


This is why polls are pointless. :laughing6:


Nice one Paul :thumbup: take note City Slicker :lol:


Oh I get you a poll or two were wrong 2 years ago so I'm assuming now that will invalidate all future polls. In any case polls are only useful for indicating trends. As I've said previously the third referendum will happen for the same reason the other two did and that's for political expediency.


The pollsters also got both recent General Elections wrong. Mind you still plenty of Polls claiming different to you see this one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... laims.html


I think another referendum would have the same result Tony. It would lead to the same claims by the remain campaign that we do not know what we have voted for, and every obstacle possible would be put in the way to delay or stop the process. In all probability, they would push for yet another vote as democracy does not seem to form part of their vocabulary.


Totally agree Steve :thumbup:
User avatar
Tony Blue Williams
 
Posts: 12664
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:25 am

Re: O/T Brexit Secretary & Foreign Secertary Resign!

Postby Jock » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:21 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
I read that so slowly I nearly fell asleep, it seems to say exactly what you said before, do you have a problem repeating yourself?

1 Check your diary.....it's not March 2019 yet you dummy. We are not certain to leave.

2. Even if we do leave we may well decide to get back in. What's so difficult to understand about that?

I've checked my feet and they're fine
Have you checked your brain?


Today is the 10th July 2017. So young people will still be young tomorrow and the same in 10 months time. However, when they grow older by say a generation (25 years) we would have exited the EU along time ago and thus the status quo would be outside the EU. You made a fundamental mistake end of.

Also the referendum was for a generation normally measured at 25 years, although it was 41 years between the first two. What I find hard to understand is how you know there is going to another vote, you speak as if it is a certainty in the short term?

Or are we back to these dodgy Polls you rely on :lol: Seriously mate you are very poor debater

Waffle on all you want the above won't change.

Anybody who thinks they voted for the status quo is deluded, the EU is evolving into a Federal State, they want to expand Shengan andthe Eurozone, theyve already appointed a Euro Chancellor, with powers to dictate fiscal policy to individual member states.
Jock
 
Posts: 1565
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:37 pm

PreviousNext


Return to General Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: boyo1927, dogfound, Dowlaistopblue, Google [Bot], Sven and 88 guests

Disclaimer :
The views and comments entered in these forums are personal and are not necessarily those of the management of this board.
The management of this board is not responsible for the content of any external internet sites.