Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:15 pm
Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:33 pm
Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:52 am
paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:08 am
paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:19 am
ElyBlue85 wrote:paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is
As an expat living in the US I beg to differ. His Presidency has caused chaos, division and stoked outright racism. The way he operates and makes changes here are rammed through with no thought to process or consequences. You only need to look no further than the separation of immigrant families with no documentation to keep track of where parents and children are.
So while I agree Brexit has been a clusterfuck, it would be no better under him.
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:39 am
AfricanBluebird wrote:ElyBlue85 wrote:paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is
As an expat living in the US I beg to differ. His Presidency has caused chaos, division and stoked outright racism. The way he operates and makes changes here are rammed through with no thought to process or consequences. You only need to look no further than the separation of immigrant families with no documentation to keep track of where parents and children are.
So while I agree Brexit has been a clusterfuck, it would be no better under him.
I work part time for a child protection organisation based in the US who work in the US.
While I understand why some people like Trumps bravado and outspokenness the administration is absolutely clueless and implicit in damaging and hurting children and children services. Here are just a few things from my child-focussed perspective that the administration is doing so very very wrong:
Separated children - Separating children from their parents is not only wrong but the administration has no case management or social work to ensure children are protected, monitored or receive services that they need - they limited systems to even identify where they are or who their parents are - this is a child protection disaster
Taking money from HIV programmes to fund separation of children - HIV services for American men, women and children is being plundered to fund seperating children putting the health of many at risk. What an abomination. Let's not forget that Mike Pence is a religious extremist who has held a long term view that HIV programmes should be reduced and money redirected to 'sexual reorientation' of gay people (a process with a history of increasing suicides and depression among gay people).
However, Trump is a complete distraction to what is really going on. The Koch brothers have a long term objective of moving the States to a right-wing agenda which benefits the conservative elite.
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:40 am
paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is
Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:18 am
dogfound wrote:AfricanBluebird wrote:ElyBlue85 wrote:paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is
As an expat living in the US I beg to differ. His Presidency has caused chaos, division and stoked outright racism. The way he operates and makes changes here are rammed through with no thought to process or consequences. You only need to look no further than the separation of immigrant families with no documentation to keep track of where parents and children are.
So while I agree Brexit has been a clusterfuck, it would be no better under him.
I work part time for a child protection organisation based in the US who work in the US.
While I understand why some people like Trumps bravado and outspokenness the administration is absolutely clueless and implicit in damaging and hurting children and children services. Here are just a few things from my child-focussed perspective that the administration is doing so very very wrong:
Separated children - Separating children from their parents is not only wrong but the administration has no case management or social work to ensure children are protected, monitored or receive services that they need - they limited systems to even identify where they are or who their parents are - this is a child protection disaster
Taking money from HIV programmes to fund separation of children - HIV services for American men, women and children is being plundered to fund seperating children putting the health of many at risk. What an abomination. Let's not forget that Mike Pence is a religious extremist who has held a long term view that HIV programmes should be reduced and money redirected to 'sexual reorientation' of gay people (a process with a history of increasing suicides and depression among gay people).
However, Trump is a complete distraction to what is really going on. The Koch brothers have a long term objective of moving the States to a right-wing agenda which benefits the conservative elite.
it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....
both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..
Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:48 am
dogfound wrote:
it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....
both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..
Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:51 am
AfricanBluebird wrote:
I look through things with a child protection lense.
I completely disagree that children should be removed from their families if their families cross the border, legally or not. Remember that many of the families came across legally and still got seperated.
There is a wider debate on the border issue.. between 1965 and 1985, when the border was softer, at least 50% of people going across the border would return back to mexico.. Since 1985 when the borders became harsher there is less people going back across the border... a harsh border has made it more difficult to return, It actually keeps people in not out.. If you are interested Malcolm Gladwell did an excellent piece on this in Revisionist history
Yes I am a Trump hater because of many reasons. I make no apologies for that, have my reasons and happy to communicate these.
I concede your point that this was supposed to be about Brexit though, the point is Trump and his administration are incapable and untrustworthy, in my opinion and would make Brexit an even bigger clusterfuck.
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:00 am
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:08 am
AfricanBluebird wrote:dogfound wrote:AfricanBluebird wrote:ElyBlue85 wrote:paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is
As an expat living in the US I beg to differ. His Presidency has caused chaos, division and stoked outright racism. The way he operates and makes changes here are rammed through with no thought to process or consequences. You only need to look no further than the separation of immigrant families with no documentation to keep track of where parents and children are.
So while I agree Brexit has been a clusterfuck, it would be no better under him.
I work part time for a child protection organisation based in the US who work in the US.
While I understand why some people like Trumps bravado and outspokenness the administration is absolutely clueless and implicit in damaging and hurting children and children services. Here are just a few things from my child-focussed perspective that the administration is doing so very very wrong:
Separated children - Separating children from their parents is not only wrong but the administration has no case management or social work to ensure children are protected, monitored or receive services that they need - they limited systems to even identify where they are or who their parents are - this is a child protection disaster
Taking money from HIV programmes to fund separation of children - HIV services for American men, women and children is being plundered to fund seperating children putting the health of many at risk. What an abomination. Let's not forget that Mike Pence is a religious extremist who has held a long term view that HIV programmes should be reduced and money redirected to 'sexual reorientation' of gay people (a process with a history of increasing suicides and depression among gay people).
However, Trump is a complete distraction to what is really going on. The Koch brothers have a long term objective of moving the States to a right-wing agenda which benefits the conservative elite.
it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....
both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..
I look through things with a child protection lense.
I completely disagree that children should be removed from their families if their families cross the border, legally or not. Remember that many of the families came across legally and still got seperated.
There is a wider debate on the border issue.. between 1965 and 1985, when the border was softer, at least 50% of people going across the border would return back to mexico.. Since 1985 when the borders became harsher there is less people going back across the border... a harsh border has made it more difficult to return, It actually keeps people in not out.. If you are interested Malcolm Gladwell did an excellent piece on this in Revisionist history
Yes I am a Trump hater because of many reasons. I make no apologies for that, have my reasons and happy to communicate these.
I concede your point that this was supposed to be about Brexit though, the point is Trump and his administration are incapable and untrustworthy, in my opinion and would make Brexit an even bigger clusterfuck.
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:23 am
Sven wrote:Leave Trump to the Americans; he's (thankfully) their problem
We need to sort our own issues out and that starts with Theresa May's Government sorting out this Brexit thing to the satisfaction of the (albeit narrow) majority who voted for the complete break and not an assumed one
Britain can go it alone and with the will of the people, it can prosper; only fear stands in the way!
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:01 am
Tony Blue Williams wrote:AfricanBluebird wrote:
I look through things with a child protection lense.
I completely disagree that children should be removed from their families if their families cross the border, legally or not. Remember that many of the families came across legally and still got seperated.
There is a wider debate on the border issue.. between 1965 and 1985, when the border was softer, at least 50% of people going across the border would return back to mexico.. Since 1985 when the borders became harsher there is less people going back across the border... a harsh border has made it more difficult to return, It actually keeps people in not out.. If you are interested Malcolm Gladwell did an excellent piece on this in Revisionist history
Yes I am a Trump hater because of many reasons. I make no apologies for that, have my reasons and happy to communicate these.
I concede your point that this was supposed to be about Brexit though, the point is Trump and his administration are incapable and untrustworthy, in my opinion and would make Brexit an even bigger clusterfuck.
If you are looking at things through a child protection lens then start looking at the irresponsible parents who by their actions cause the separation.
You can't have a situation where parents can avoid the rule of law by hiding behind their children. That is ten times more disgusting than what your accusing President Trump and the American authorities of.
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:05 am
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:06 am
Tony Blue Williams wrote:dogfound wrote:
it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....
both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..
Spot on
It always amazes me how parents who take their children on dangerous illegal journeys to countries they have no right to enter, completely avoid any kind of criticism or responsibility for the consequences.
The simple fact is if parents don't want to be separated from their children then they should break the law.
But of course it is a lot easier to blame Trump.
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:29 am
AfricanBluebird wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:dogfound wrote:
it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....
both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..
Spot on
It always amazes me how parents who take their children on dangerous illegal journeys to countries they have no right to enter, completely avoid any kind of criticism or responsibility for the consequences.
The simple fact is if parents don't want to be separated from their children then they should break the law.
But of course it is a lot easier to blame Trump.
It depends the situation you left.. some are coming from appalling situations,
Also, it is a new thing of separating children from families so many would be unaware that was going to happen.
I have worked with refugee communities I can tell you that they don't love their kids any less than we love ours.
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:41 am
Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:04 pm
BlueMoon1974 wrote:Farage has hot his hand up his arse doing all these interviews. Its a soft runny brexit from now on . Im well happy with that, all the sheep heads said a hard brexit deal would be easy yet no ideas out on paper and the ring masters have cut and run. Now we have a plan and so it ends!!!!!!!
Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:09 pm
Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:26 pm
paulh_85 wrote:AfricanBluebird wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:dogfound wrote:
it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....
both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..
Spot on
It always amazes me how parents who take their children on dangerous illegal journeys to countries they have no right to enter, completely avoid any kind of criticism or responsibility for the consequences.
The simple fact is if parents don't want to be separated from their children then they should break the law.
But of course it is a lot easier to blame Trump.
It depends the situation you left.. some are coming from appalling situations,
Also, it is a new thing of separating children from families so many would be unaware that was going to happen.
I have worked with refugee communities I can tell you that they don't love their kids any less than we love ours.
out of interest, if this is a new policy what would have happened previously?
there has to be seperate provisions for asylum seekers and economic migrants. leaving your country because its poor and you want a better life for your children is admirable, but its not the same as fleeing a war zone.
i suspect the vast majority of them are economic migrants but id be interested to here if thats not the case,
Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:36 pm
dogfound wrote:A } illegally enter our country as a family , you will not be detained and released into the comunity and maybe get caught up with later...
B} enter our country illegally and youll be sperated from family members and WILL BE detained..
its not rocket science to figure which the deterent is out of those 2..
Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:36 pm
AfricanBluebird wrote:paulh_85 wrote:AfricanBluebird wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:dogfound wrote:
it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....
both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..
Spot on
It always amazes me how parents who take their children on dangerous illegal journeys to countries they have no right to enter, completely avoid any kind of criticism or responsibility for the consequences.
The simple fact is if parents don't want to be separated from their children then they should break the law.
But of course it is a lot easier to blame Trump.
It depends the situation you left.. some are coming from appalling situations,
Also, it is a new thing of separating children from families so many would be unaware that was going to happen.
I have worked with refugee communities I can tell you that they don't love their kids any less than we love ours.
out of interest, if this is a new policy what would have happened previously?
there has to be seperate provisions for asylum seekers and economic migrants. leaving your country because its poor and you want a better life for your children is admirable, but its not the same as fleeing a war zone.
i suspect the vast majority of them are economic migrants but id be interested to here if thats not the case,
Previously asylum seekers were kept with their children and their cases processed. Some made it through, some didn't. But at least families were kept together.
It was also much cheaper.
Now the Trump admin are paying Bethany Christian Services $700 per day per child to keep the child in foster care, Bethany Christian Services are an adoption agency with ties to nancy devos family and republican lobbyists - the swamp is alive with self interests.
Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:46 pm
paulh_85 wrote:AfricanBluebird wrote:paulh_85 wrote:AfricanBluebird wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:dogfound wrote:
it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....
both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..
Spot on
It always amazes me how parents who take their children on dangerous illegal journeys to countries they have no right to enter, completely avoid any kind of criticism or responsibility for the consequences.
The simple fact is if parents don't want to be separated from their children then they should break the law.
But of course it is a lot easier to blame Trump.
It depends the situation you left.. some are coming from appalling situations,
Also, it is a new thing of separating children from families so many would be unaware that was going to happen.
I have worked with refugee communities I can tell you that they don't love their kids any less than we love ours.
out of interest, if this is a new policy what would have happened previously?
there has to be seperate provisions for asylum seekers and economic migrants. leaving your country because its poor and you want a better life for your children is admirable, but its not the same as fleeing a war zone.
i suspect the vast majority of them are economic migrants but id be interested to here if thats not the case,
Previously asylum seekers were kept with their children and their cases processed. Some made it through, some didn't. But at least families were kept together.
It was also much cheaper.
Now the Trump admin are paying Bethany Christian Services $700 per day per child to keep the child in foster care, Bethany Christian Services are an adoption agency with ties to nancy devos family and republican lobbyists - the swamp is alive with self interests.
a little off topic really i dont care too much about that.
so asylum seekers were kept together as a family where? what about people who aren't fleeing persecution and war, what happened to them?
Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:16 pm
dogfound wrote:AfricanBluebird wrote:ElyBlue85 wrote:paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is
As an expat living in the US I beg to differ. His Presidency has caused chaos, division and stoked outright racism. The way he operates and makes changes here are rammed through with no thought to process or consequences. You only need to look no further than the separation of immigrant families with no documentation to keep track of where parents and children are.
So while I agree Brexit has been a clusterfuck, it would be no better under him.
I work part time for a child protection organisation based in the US who work in the US.
While I understand why some people like Trumps bravado and outspokenness the administration is absolutely clueless and implicit in damaging and hurting children and children services. Here are just a few things from my child-focussed perspective that the administration is doing so very very wrong:
Separated children - Separating children from their parents is not only wrong but the administration has no case management or social work to ensure children are protected, monitored or receive services that they need - they limited systems to even identify where they are or who their parents are - this is a child protection disaster
Taking money from HIV programmes to fund separation of children - HIV services for American men, women and children is being plundered to fund seperating children putting the health of many at risk. What an abomination. Let's not forget that Mike Pence is a religious extremist who has held a long term view that HIV programmes should be reduced and money redirected to 'sexual reorientation' of gay people (a process with a history of increasing suicides and depression among gay people).
However, Trump is a complete distraction to what is really going on. The Koch brothers have a long term objective of moving the States to a right-wing agenda which benefits the conservative elite.
it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....
both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..
Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:38 pm
ElyBlue85 wrote:dogfound wrote:AfricanBluebird wrote:ElyBlue85 wrote:paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is
As an expat living in the US I beg to differ. His Presidency has caused chaos, division and stoked outright racism. The way he operates and makes changes here are rammed through with no thought to process or consequences. You only need to look no further than the separation of immigrant families with no documentation to keep track of where parents and children are.
So while I agree Brexit has been a clusterfuck, it would be no better under him.
I work part time for a child protection organisation based in the US who work in the US.
While I understand why some people like Trumps bravado and outspokenness the administration is absolutely clueless and implicit in damaging and hurting children and children services. Here are just a few things from my child-focussed perspective that the administration is doing so very very wrong:
Separated children - Separating children from their parents is not only wrong but the administration has no case management or social work to ensure children are protected, monitored or receive services that they need - they limited systems to even identify where they are or who their parents are - this is a child protection disaster
Taking money from HIV programmes to fund separation of children - HIV services for American men, women and children is being plundered to fund seperating children putting the health of many at risk. What an abomination. Let's not forget that Mike Pence is a religious extremist who has held a long term view that HIV programmes should be reduced and money redirected to 'sexual reorientation' of gay people (a process with a history of increasing suicides and depression among gay people).
However, Trump is a complete distraction to what is really going on. The Koch brothers have a long term objective of moving the States to a right-wing agenda which benefits the conservative elite.
it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....
both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..
With the greatest respect, you don't know me and I don't know you. You have no idea who I would and wouldn't vote for, just as I would not know the same about you. The statement was that Trump would make it better and I gave my opinion backed up with why I thought he wouldn't. My opinion is based on living here and my interactions with Americans, not just the BBC. You are entitled to your view just as much as I am.
Are the parents wrong? Maybe. Do we have a duty to protect the children? Absolutely.
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:18 pm
dogfound wrote:ElyBlue85 wrote:dogfound wrote:AfricanBluebird wrote:ElyBlue85 wrote:paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is
As an expat living in the US I beg to differ. His Presidency has caused chaos, division and stoked outright racism. The way he operates and makes changes here are rammed through with no thought to process or consequences. You only need to look no further than the separation of immigrant families with no documentation to keep track of where parents and children are.
So while I agree Brexit has been a clusterfuck, it would be no better under him.
I work part time for a child protection organisation based in the US who work in the US.
While I understand why some people like Trumps bravado and outspokenness the administration is absolutely clueless and implicit in damaging and hurting children and children services. Here are just a few things from my child-focussed perspective that the administration is doing so very very wrong:
Separated children - Separating children from their parents is not only wrong but the administration has no case management or social work to ensure children are protected, monitored or receive services that they need - they limited systems to even identify where they are or who their parents are - this is a child protection disaster
Taking money from HIV programmes to fund separation of children - HIV services for American men, women and children is being plundered to fund seperating children putting the health of many at risk. What an abomination. Let's not forget that Mike Pence is a religious extremist who has held a long term view that HIV programmes should be reduced and money redirected to 'sexual reorientation' of gay people (a process with a history of increasing suicides and depression among gay people).
However, Trump is a complete distraction to what is really going on. The Koch brothers have a long term objective of moving the States to a right-wing agenda which benefits the conservative elite.
it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....
both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..
With the greatest respect, you don't know me and I don't know you. You have no idea who I would and wouldn't vote for, just as I would not know the same about you. The statement was that Trump would make it better and I gave my opinion backed up with why I thought he wouldn't. My opinion is based on living here and my interactions with Americans, not just the BBC. You are entitled to your view just as much as I am.
Are the parents wrong? Maybe. Do we have a duty to protect the children? Absolutely.
suggest you re read what you wrote..chaos,division and racism.....here is a wild guess who you didnt vote for..trump.?
would you take your family on a journey that ended in being illegal immigrants.?
and would you expect prior to embarking on this journey some sort of promise as to what happens if caught.?
its a million miles from ideal but 100% caused by those who passed the current laws..
and i dont think taking your children illegally into foreign lands is a MAYBE wrong either..its flat out wrong
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:20 pm
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:57 pm
Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:27 am
paulh_85 wrote:i thought aslyum seekers had to claim said asylum in the nearest safe country? its not a case of choosing where you go is it?
African bluebird surely knows more on the subject so please correct me if im wrong