OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

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If a second referendum were to occur, would you CHANGE your vote from last time?

YES
35
26%
NO
101
74%
 
Total votes : 136

Re: OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

Postby wez1927 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:17 pm

McNaughtyButNice wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
McNaughtyButNice wrote:
Steve
I think what went on before we became members of the Eu is irrelevant as it is a completely different world both economically, socially, politically and technologically. (Yes I am old enough to remember it too!)
I also agree that when we voted "in" this wsa to the "common market" and not all of the E legislation we have now.
What I would like to see is an agreement where we are still in a "common market" with a level playing field, but not under the legal jurisdictionof the Eu. Happy to tae the result of the referendum vote and do not believe we need another vote, but there has to be a trade deal in place otherwiase everyone will suffer both in the UK and on the remaining Eu member states. I believe that "No deal" is a bad deal for everyone.


1975 is not irrelevant at all. As stated we joined a trading block back then not a political union. We were denied referendums over both the Maastricht Treaty and Lisbon Treaty which changed the face of our membership of the EU forever and the result was nothing like what we signed up to in 1975.

We won't get a decent trade deal because the EU is hell bent on punishing us to stop other nations from leaving the EU. The only way to get anything out of the EU is to call their bluff and go for a no deal.


I totally accept that we joined a trading block back in 1975 and not a political union, as I said when we voted "in" this was to the "common market" and not all of the EU legislation we have now."
I'm saying that the economic situation prior to us joining the Eu cannot be used as any kind of a frame of reference for what a "no deal" situation may look like as those were vastly different times.
If you want to play poker with the economy then you risk losing everythign with your proposed "all in" of a no deal.
No deal is very likely to be a bad scenario for everyone, especially small businesses and the working class who will end up paying higher prices for everything they purchase and increased taxation both direct and indirect.
The pound has lost 18 pence against the Euro since the referendum vote and as we head towards a no deal situation (which is what the EU are preparing for) most economists don't see it improving. You can expect another 10% to be wiped of the exchange rate the day Brexit finally happens, and that can only mean an increase in the cost of living though of course it is beneficial to our exporters. Just a shame that our imports outweigh our exports by a factor of 4:1

The pound hasnt lost 18 percent where have you got that infomation from ?
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Re: OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

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Re: OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

Postby McNaughtyButNice » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:19 am

wez1927 wrote:
McNaughtyButNice wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
McNaughtyButNice wrote:
Steve
I think what went on before we became members of the Eu is irrelevant as it is a completely different world both economically, socially, politically and technologically. (Yes I am old enough to remember it too!)
I also agree that when we voted "in" this wsa to the "common market" and not all of the E legislation we have now.
What I would like to see is an agreement where we are still in a "common market" with a level playing field, but not under the legal jurisdictionof the Eu. Happy to tae the result of the referendum vote and do not believe we need another vote, but there has to be a trade deal in place otherwiase everyone will suffer both in the UK and on the remaining Eu member states. I believe that "No deal" is a bad deal for everyone.


1975 is not irrelevant at all. As stated we joined a trading block back then not a political union. We were denied referendums over both the Maastricht Treaty and Lisbon Treaty which changed the face of our membership of the EU forever and the result was nothing like what we signed up to in 1975.

We won't get a decent trade deal because the EU is hell bent on punishing us to stop other nations from leaving the EU. The only way to get anything out of the EU is to call their bluff and go for a no deal.


I totally accept that we joined a trading block back in 1975 and not a political union, as I said when we voted "in" this was to the "common market" and not all of the EU legislation we have now."
I'm saying that the economic situation prior to us joining the Eu cannot be used as any kind of a frame of reference for what a "no deal" situation may look like as those were vastly different times.
If you want to play poker with the economy then you risk losing everythign with your proposed "all in" of a no deal.
No deal is very likely to be a bad scenario for everyone, especially small businesses and the working class who will end up paying higher prices for everything they purchase and increased taxation both direct and indirect.
The pound has lost 18 pence against the Euro since the referendum vote and as we head towards a no deal situation (which is what the EU are preparing for) most economists don't see it improving. You can expect another 10% to be wiped of the exchange rate the day Brexit finally happens, and that can only mean an increase in the cost of living though of course it is beneficial to our exporters. Just a shame that our imports outweigh our exports by a factor of 4:1

The pound hasnt lost 18 percent where have you got that infomation from ?


I said 18 pence NOT 18 percent.
Pre referendum vote I was trading for 1.29 sterling/euro
Transaction made today I received 1.1175 from my currency broker Currency UK
So ok not exactly 18 pence but 17.25 based on today's figure
I make payments into the Eu on a weekly basis and the rate has been hovering around 1.1 for quite some time now, bearing in mind that the actual rate for a currency transaction is about 2 points lower than the base rate, as the banks all make money of course.
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Re: OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

Postby paulh_85 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:20 am

McNaughtyButNice wrote:
wez1927 wrote:
McNaughtyButNice wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
McNaughtyButNice wrote:
Steve
I think what went on before we became members of the Eu is irrelevant as it is a completely different world both economically, socially, politically and technologically. (Yes I am old enough to remember it too!)
I also agree that when we voted "in" this wsa to the "common market" and not all of the E legislation we have now.
What I would like to see is an agreement where we are still in a "common market" with a level playing field, but not under the legal jurisdictionof the Eu. Happy to tae the result of the referendum vote and do not believe we need another vote, but there has to be a trade deal in place otherwiase everyone will suffer both in the UK and on the remaining Eu member states. I believe that "No deal" is a bad deal for everyone.


1975 is not irrelevant at all. As stated we joined a trading block back then not a political union. We were denied referendums over both the Maastricht Treaty and Lisbon Treaty which changed the face of our membership of the EU forever and the result was nothing like what we signed up to in 1975.

We won't get a decent trade deal because the EU is hell bent on punishing us to stop other nations from leaving the EU. The only way to get anything out of the EU is to call their bluff and go for a no deal.


I totally accept that we joined a trading block back in 1975 and not a political union, as I said when we voted "in" this was to the "common market" and not all of the EU legislation we have now."
I'm saying that the economic situation prior to us joining the Eu cannot be used as any kind of a frame of reference for what a "no deal" situation may look like as those were vastly different times.
If you want to play poker with the economy then you risk losing everythign with your proposed "all in" of a no deal.
No deal is very likely to be a bad scenario for everyone, especially small businesses and the working class who will end up paying higher prices for everything they purchase and increased taxation both direct and indirect.
The pound has lost 18 pence against the Euro since the referendum vote and as we head towards a no deal situation (which is what the EU are preparing for) most economists don't see it improving. You can expect another 10% to be wiped of the exchange rate the day Brexit finally happens, and that can only mean an increase in the cost of living though of course it is beneficial to our exporters. Just a shame that our imports outweigh our exports by a factor of 4:1

The pound hasnt lost 18 percent where have you got that infomation from ?


I said 18 pence NOT 18 percent.
Pre referendum vote I was trading for 1.29 sterling/euro
Transaction made today I received 1.1175 from my currency broker Currency UK
So ok not exactly 18 pence but 17.25 based on today's figure
I make payments into the Eu on a weekly basis and the rate has been hovering around 1.1 for quite some time now, bearing in mind that the actual rate for a currency transaction is about 2 points lower than the base rate, as the banks all make money of course.



and who controls this nonsense in the first place - comparing one currency against another means absolutely nothing when it gets manipulated to suit peoples needs.
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Re: OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:40 am

McNaughtyButNice wrote:
I totally accept that we joined a trading block back in 1975 and not a political union, as I said when we voted "in" this was to the "common market" and not all of the EU legislation we have now."
I'm saying that the economic situation prior to us joining the Eu cannot be used as any kind of a frame of reference for what a "no deal" situation may look like as those were vastly different times.
If you want to play poker with the economy then you risk losing everythign with your proposed "all in" of a no deal.
No deal is very likely to be a bad scenario for everyone, especially small businesses and the working class who will end up paying higher prices for everything they purchase and increased taxation both direct and indirect.
The pound has lost 18 pence against the Euro since the referendum vote and as we head towards a no deal situation (which is what the EU are preparing for) most economists don't see it improving. You can expect another 10% to be wiped of the exchange rate the day Brexit finally happens, and that can only mean an increase in the cost of living though of course it is beneficial to our exporters. Just a shame that our imports outweigh our exports by a factor of 4:1


Actually the world trade situation is far better now than in 1975 because Countries who do not have trade deals operate under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules which limit the amount of tariffs which can be levied. Therefore 1975 can be used as a frame of reference for a 'No Deal'

Also most of world trade are governed by WHO rules. We trade with the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, India and Japan on WTO rules.

If there is a no deal we will have to adapt not run away from scare stories. Project Fear failed at the referendum and by now according to remainers an extra million people should be unemployed due to us voting out and that simply never happened.

You mention the fall in the value of the pound. It has actually fallen by 15p against the Euro since the referendum a drop of around 11-12%. However, both the IMF & The Bank of England agreed in early 2016 that the £ was overvalued by about 15%. So whether we voted yes or no in the referendum at some point the value of the £ would have fallen.

You have made several claims during this debate and at every point your arguments start to unravel. This is typical remain behaviour which is to frighten and suck the self confidence out everyone so we accept the folly of staying in the EU.
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Re: OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:44 am

McNaughtyButNice wrote:
I said 18 pence NOT 18 percent.
Pre referendum vote I was trading for 1.29 sterling/euro
Transaction made today I received 1.1175 from my currency broker Currency UK
So ok not exactly 18 pence but 17.25 based on today's figure
I make payments into the Eu on a weekly basis and the rate has been hovering around 1.1 for quite some time now, bearing in mind that the actual rate for a currency transaction is about 2 points lower than the base rate, as the banks all make money of course.


The correct valuation of the £ to the Euro is about what it is now. I can remember going to Europe in 2013 and getting an exchange rate slightly less than it is now.
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Re: OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

Postby rumpo kid » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:13 pm

If Britain gets a bad deal, cue 100's of thousands of job losses in the EU. Never gonna happen, so the EU will pull their usual stunt of threatening disaster, then some last ditch miracle deal will amazingly appear, and Barnier's a hero.
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Re: OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

Postby McNaughtyButNice » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:18 pm

Time will tell who is right and who is wrong. At this point it is mostly speculation based on what the best qualified economists are forecasting. I realise that I am in the minority on this board for wanting a trade deal with Europe, but then I am probably in the minority as a person that runs a business importing products from Europe on a weekly basis, a business that is hugely dependent on good trading relationships with Europe. If your livelihood and that of your family was being put in jeopardy, maybe you would have a different opinion?
If the £ devalues by a further 10% when Brexit finally happens and we have no trade deal, then I would expect my product retail prices to rise by at least 10% and maybe more depending on tariffs. Every other business importing from the Eu is in the same position, so those goods will rise in cost.

AS stated earlier, I'm ok with leaving the Eu but not the common market. I realise that many of you have a different opinion and you are entitled to that, just as I am entitled to my opinion. It will be very interesting to see where we are in 18 months time when this has had a chance to play out either with or without a deal.
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Re: OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

Postby McNaughtyButNice » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:21 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
McNaughtyButNice wrote:
I totally accept that we joined a trading block back in 1975 and not a political union, as I said when we voted "in" this was to the "common market" and not all of the EU legislation we have now."
I'm saying that the economic situation prior to us joining the Eu cannot be used as any kind of a frame of reference for what a "no deal" situation may look like as those were vastly different times.
If you want to play poker with the economy then you risk losing everythign with your proposed "all in" of a no deal.
No deal is very likely to be a bad scenario for everyone, especially small businesses and the working class who will end up paying higher prices for everything they purchase and increased taxation both direct and indirect.
The pound has lost 18 pence against the Euro since the referendum vote and as we head towards a no deal situation (which is what the EU are preparing for) most economists don't see it improving. You can expect another 10% to be wiped of the exchange rate the day Brexit finally happens, and that can only mean an increase in the cost of living though of course it is beneficial to our exporters. Just a shame that our imports outweigh our exports by a factor of 4:1


Actually the world trade situation is far better now than in 1975 because Countries who do not have trade deals operate under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules which limit the amount of tariffs which can be levied. Therefore 1975 can be used as a frame of reference for a 'No Deal'

Also most of world trade are governed by WHO rules. We trade with the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, India and Japan on WTO rules.

If there is a no deal we will have to adapt not run away from scare stories. Project Fear failed at the referendum and by now according to remainers an extra million people should be unemployed due to us voting out and that simply never happened.

You mention the fall in the value of the pound. It has actually fallen by 15p against the Euro since the referendum a drop of around 11-12%. However, both the IMF & The Bank of England agreed in early 2016 that the £ was overvalued by about 15%. So whether we voted yes or no in the referendum at some point the value of the £ would have fallen.

You have made several claims during this debate and at every point your arguments start to unravel. This is typical remain behaviour which is to frighten and suck the self confidence out everyone so we accept the folly of staying in the EU.


My figures are based on the last trasnaction i made pre referendum vote and the most recent one made last week. The difference in rates I paid was 17 pence against the euro. Nothing unravelling there I'm afraid.
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Re: OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

Postby rustyblue » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:28 pm

I voted remain, happy to accept the outcome, but we should really be out by now, i have a feeling Mayhem is trying to fook the deal up so it gets scrapped altogether without 2nd ref.
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Re: OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

Postby wez1927 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:23 pm

rustyblue wrote:I voted remain, happy to accept the outcome, but we should really be out by now, i have a feeling Mayhem is trying to fook the deal up so it gets scrapped altogether without 2nd ref.

We should be out, there will be no 2nd referendum, i think its no deal but at the last minute the eu will shit it and cave in
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Re: OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

Postby pembroke allan » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:10 pm

rustyblue wrote:I voted remain, happy to accept the outcome, but we should really be out by now, i have a feeling Mayhem is trying to fook the deal up so it gets scrapped altogether without 2nd ref.




The date is March next year for leaving cannot be out before then! And cannot remain without 2nd referendum so unless may completely caves in and asks for 2nd referendum we will be gone deal or no deal :thumbup:
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Re: OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

Postby BlueMoon1974 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:11 pm

https://twitter.com/davidschneider/stat ... 33568?s=19

Its not going to happen. You were sold a whopper from the far right. Leave voters wanted out for migration issues and not economy issues.
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Re: OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

Postby paulh_85 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:20 pm

BlueMoon1974 wrote:https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1020719844637933568?s=19

Its not going to happen. You were sold a whopper from the far right. Leave voters wanted out for migration issues and not economy issues.



:lol: :lol:
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Re: OFF TOPIC POLL: SECOND REFERENDUM?

Postby splottbluebird48 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:07 am

I voted leave in the referendum, however I still feel it was way to simplistic we were never given the true facts from both sides, mainly because the politicians didn't know themselvesWhat has now emerged is I believe knowing most of the facts, my vote may have been different at least with a general election you have a manifesto to read and then you decide
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