One in twenty years...??

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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby Llan_Blue » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:18 pm

RV Casual wrote:
Llan_Blue wrote:
RV Casual wrote:
Llan_Blue wrote:
RV Casual wrote:
Llan_Blue wrote:
RV Casual wrote:
Llan_Blue wrote:I don’t get it we’ve produced more players then a lot of clubs haven’t we?


No.

Absolutely nobody.

Apart from Ramsey we have produced nothing in the last 10 years.

Not one player has come through our system.

Ok then what’s the solution?

What was or is the problem?


Don't put to much pressure on home grown talent to begin
Not to write off players to soon. For example, Zohore is the same age as Declan is now before he had a 'half decent' season'
Develop our players from within

Sounds like a sound base point.

You could see Zohore had something in him.

Declan John hasn’t shown anything he’s also had a lot of managers that have thought the same thing.

It’s nothing to do with having pressure put on young players.

We haven’t had anybody coming through because we were stock piling players in our under U23s who just weren’t good enough. An the one or two that maybe had a slight chance were fucked because we didn’t have a manager with the balls to play them in Russel Slade



What you see in Zohore I saw in Declan, I honestly thought with the right development Declan could have been a top quality left wing back.

Zohore struck lucky Warnock had no choice but to play him but he's got everything to prove to me, 9 goals in 36 games for a promotion winning teams main striker isn't exactly ripping it up is it?

His current goal to game ratio is 1 in every 4.5 and he's never played at this level and almost 25.

You said earlier whats Declan done? I'll ask you whats Zohore done>

Played as the main striker in a promotion winning team.

Had bids of 12 million pounds made for him.

Almost got into the Denmark World Cup squad.

Won the clubs Goal of the Season

Won the clubs young player of the year award


Exactly.

Neither have done f**k all of note, yet one gets written off and the other one gets branded like he's golden balls.

Almost got into the Denmark World Cup Squad at 25 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

It’s a lot more then being farmed about on loan to be honest.

An you don’t think going to a World Cup is an achievement?
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Re: One in twenty years...??

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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby RV Casual » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:20 pm

dogfound wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
RV Casual wrote:I just think we should be doing better, South Wales is a big old area, the talent is surely out there.


This small area of South Wales has produced superstars such as Ryan Giggs (was born here), Craig Bellamy, Aaron Ramsey and Gareth Bale in recent times. It is a rich seam of talent and we should be producing young players through our academy but to do that it has to be funded better.



as a nation we have always produced very talented players in small numbers whether they learnt their trade on dog shite park or a 4g academy pitch...
really dont see the better funded bit tbh..England has been throwing far more money at it than us yet its not making a dent in the foreigners playing in the prem..
and yes Wales has always been a rich seam of talent its why we have always over produced compared to most countries per capita.



Welsh Squad at the Euros.

Wayne Hennessy - Bangor - Man City
Owain Fon William - Caernarfon - Crewe Alexander
Danny Ward - Wrexham - Wrexham

Chris Gunter - Newport - Cardiff
Taylor - St Asaph - Man City
Davies - Swansea - Swansea
Chester- Warrington - Man Ud
Williams - Wolverhampton - West Brom
Jaz Richards - Swansea from age of 15.
James Collins - Newport - Cardiff

Allen - Carmarthen - Swansea
King - Barnstable - Leicster
Ramsey - Caerphily - Cardiff
Edwards - Pontesbury - Shrewsbury
Ledley - Cardiff - Cardiff
Jonny Williams - Kent - Crystal Palace
Vaughn - Abergele - Crewe

Kanu - London - Arsenal
Bale - Cardiff - Southampton
Williams, Milton Keynes - MK Dons
Cotteril - Cardiff - Bristol City
Vokes - Southampton - AFCB
Church - Amersham - Wycombe

6 out of 25 born in SE Wales.

At the Euros only 6 of our squad came from South East Wales and only 4 came through our academy. I would say that is bleak.
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby RV Casual » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:22 pm

Llan_Blue wrote:
RV Casual wrote:
Llan_Blue wrote:
RV Casual wrote:
Llan_Blue wrote:
RV Casual wrote:
Llan_Blue wrote:
RV Casual wrote:
Llan_Blue wrote:I don’t get it we’ve produced more players then a lot of clubs haven’t we?


No.

Absolutely nobody.

Apart from Ramsey we have produced nothing in the last 10 years.

Not one player has come through our system.

Ok then what’s the solution?

What was or is the problem?


Don't put to much pressure on home grown talent to begin
Not to write off players to soon. For example, Zohore is the same age as Declan is now before he had a 'half decent' season'
Develop our players from within

Sounds like a sound base point.

You could see Zohore had something in him.

Declan John hasn’t shown anything he’s also had a lot of managers that have thought the same thing.

It’s nothing to do with having pressure put on young players.

We haven’t had anybody coming through because we were stock piling players in our under U23s who just weren’t good enough. An the one or two that maybe had a slight chance were fucked because we didn’t have a manager with the balls to play them in Russel Slade



What you see in Zohore I saw in Declan, I honestly thought with the right development Declan could have been a top quality left wing back.

Zohore struck lucky Warnock had no choice but to play him but he's got everything to prove to me, 9 goals in 36 games for a promotion winning teams main striker isn't exactly ripping it up is it?

His current goal to game ratio is 1 in every 4.5 and he's never played at this level and almost 25.

You said earlier whats Declan done? I'll ask you whats Zohore done>

Played as the main striker in a promotion winning team.

Had bids of 12 million pounds made for him.

Almost got into the Denmark World Cup squad.

Won the clubs Goal of the Season

Won the clubs young player of the year award


Exactly.

Neither have done f**k all of note, yet one gets written off and the other one gets branded like he's golden balls.

Almost got into the Denmark World Cup Squad at 25 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

It’s a lot more then being farmed about on loan to be honest.

An you don’t think going to a World Cup is an achievement?


Going to a World Cup is an achievement yeah, almost going to a World Cup, well, No.
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby RV Casual » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:26 pm

RV Casual wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
RV Casual wrote:I just think we should be doing better, South Wales is a big old area, the talent is surely out there.


This small area of South Wales has produced superstars such as Ryan Giggs (was born here), Craig Bellamy, Aaron Ramsey and Gareth Bale in recent times. It is a rich seam of talent and we should be producing young players through our academy but to do that it has to be funded better.



as a nation we have always produced very talented players in small numbers whether they learnt their trade on dog shite park or a 4g academy pitch...
really dont see the better funded bit tbh..England has been throwing far more money at it than us yet its not making a dent in the foreigners playing in the prem..
and yes Wales has always been a rich seam of talent its why we have always over produced compared to most countries per capita.



Welsh Squad at the Euros.

Wayne Hennessy - Bangor - Man City
Owain Fon William - Caernarfon - Crewe Alexander
Danny Ward - Wrexham - Wrexham

Chris Gunter - Newport - Cardiff
Taylor - St Asaph - Man City
Davies - Swansea - Swansea
Chester- Warrington - Man Ud
Williams - Wolverhampton - West Brom
Jaz Richards - Swansea from age of 15.
James Collins - Newport - Cardiff

Allen - Carmarthen - Swansea
King - Barnstable - Leicster
Ramsey - Caerphily - Cardiff
Edwards - Pontesbury - Shrewsbury
Ledley - Cardiff - Cardiff
Jonny Williams - Kent - Crystal Palace
Vaughn - Abergele - Crewe

Kanu - London - Arsenal
Bale - Cardiff - Southampton
Williams, Milton Keynes - MK Dons
Cotteril - Cardiff - Bristol City
Vokes - Southampton - AFCB
Church - Amersham - Wycombe

6 out of 25 born in SE Wales.

At the Euros only 6 of our squad came from South East Wales and only 4 came through our academy. I would say that is bleak.


I meant to add the caveat bearing in mind South East Wales makes up almost 3/4 of the countries population.
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby dogfound » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:30 pm

RV Casual wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
RV Casual wrote:I just think we should be doing better, South Wales is a big old area, the talent is surely out there.


This small area of South Wales has produced superstars such as Ryan Giggs (was born here), Craig Bellamy, Aaron Ramsey and Gareth Bale in recent times. It is a rich seam of talent and we should be producing young players through our academy but to do that it has to be funded better.



as a nation we have always produced very talented players in small numbers whether they learnt their trade on dog shite park or a 4g academy pitch...
really dont see the better funded bit tbh..England has been throwing far more money at it than us yet its not making a dent in the foreigners playing in the prem..
and yes Wales has always been a rich seam of talent its why we have always over produced compared to most countries per capita.



Welsh Squad at the Euros.

Wayne Hennessy - Bangor - Man City
Owain Fon William - Caernarfon - Crewe Alexander
Danny Ward - Wrexham - Wrexham

Chris Gunter - Newport - Cardiff
Taylor - St Asaph - Man City
Davies - Swansea - Swansea
Chester- Warrington - Man Ud
Williams - Wolverhampton - West Brom
Jaz Richards - Swansea from age of 15.
James Collins - Newport - Cardiff

Allen - Carmarthen - Swansea
King - Barnstable - Leicster
Ramsey - Caerphily - Cardiff
Edwards - Pontesbury - Shrewsbury
Ledley - Cardiff - Cardiff
Jonny Williams - Kent - Crystal Palace
Vaughn - Abergele - Crewe

Kanu - London - Arsenal
Bale - Cardiff - Southampton
Williams, Milton Keynes - MK Dons
Cotteril - Cardiff - Bristol City
Vokes - Southampton - AFCB
Church - Amersham - Wycombe

6 out of 25 born in SE Wales.

At the Euros only 6 of our squad came from South East Wales and only 4 came through our academy. I would say that is bleak.



pretty sure if you look back through welsh squads of yesteryear youll find the same sort of make up..
for 3 million people we produce more than most..where in our country that talent is well thats another thing..
have to add that if you took players that would not have qualified years ago out..the contribution of SE Wales would be higher
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby RV Casual » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:45 pm

dogfound wrote:
RV Casual wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
RV Casual wrote:I just think we should be doing better, South Wales is a big old area, the talent is surely out there.


This small area of South Wales has produced superstars such as Ryan Giggs (was born here), Craig Bellamy, Aaron Ramsey and Gareth Bale in recent times. It is a rich seam of talent and we should be producing young players through our academy but to do that it has to be funded better.



as a nation we have always produced very talented players in small numbers whether they learnt their trade on dog shite park or a 4g academy pitch...
really dont see the better funded bit tbh..England has been throwing far more money at it than us yet its not making a dent in the foreigners playing in the prem..
and yes Wales has always been a rich seam of talent its why we have always over produced compared to most countries per capita.



Welsh Squad at the Euros.

Wayne Hennessy - Bangor - Man City
Owain Fon William - Caernarfon - Crewe Alexander
Danny Ward - Wrexham - Wrexham

Chris Gunter - Newport - Cardiff
Taylor - St Asaph - Man City
Davies - Swansea - Swansea
Chester- Warrington - Man Ud
Williams - Wolverhampton - West Brom
Jaz Richards - Swansea from age of 15.
James Collins - Newport - Cardiff

Allen - Carmarthen - Swansea
King - Barnstable - Leicster
Ramsey - Caerphily - Cardiff
Edwards - Pontesbury - Shrewsbury
Ledley - Cardiff - Cardiff
Jonny Williams - Kent - Crystal Palace
Vaughn - Abergele - Crewe

Kanu - London - Arsenal
Bale - Cardiff - Southampton
Williams, Milton Keynes - MK Dons
Cotteril - Cardiff - Bristol City
Vokes - Southampton - AFCB
Church - Amersham - Wycombe

6 out of 25 born in SE Wales.

At the Euros only 6 of our squad came from South East Wales and only 4 came through our academy. I would say that is bleak.



pretty sure if you look back through welsh squads of yesteryear youll find the same sort of make up..
for 3 million people we produce more than most..where in our country that talent is well thats another thing..
have to add that if you took players that would not have qualified years ago out..the contribution of SE Wales would be higher


I think your just arguing with me for arguments sake to be honest fella, the amount of players we produce in South East Waels always has and continues to be shocking which was the original point of my original post

Its time we stopped blaming everyone else and started championing the up and coming footballers of south east wales so they dominate our national squad as they should.
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby dogfound » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:53 pm

RV Casual wrote:
dogfound wrote:
RV Casual wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
RV Casual wrote:I just think we should be doing better, South Wales is a big old area, the talent is surely out there.


This small area of South Wales has produced superstars such as Ryan Giggs (was born here), Craig Bellamy, Aaron Ramsey and Gareth Bale in recent times. It is a rich seam of talent and we should be producing young players through our academy but to do that it has to be funded better.



as a nation we have always produced very talented players in small numbers whether they learnt their trade on dog shite park or a 4g academy pitch...
really dont see the better funded bit tbh..England has been throwing far more money at it than us yet its not making a dent in the foreigners playing in the prem..
and yes Wales has always been a rich seam of talent its why we have always over produced compared to most countries per capita.



Welsh Squad at the Euros.

Wayne Hennessy - Bangor - Man City
Owain Fon William - Caernarfon - Crewe Alexander
Danny Ward - Wrexham - Wrexham

Chris Gunter - Newport - Cardiff
Taylor - St Asaph - Man City
Davies - Swansea - Swansea
Chester- Warrington - Man Ud
Williams - Wolverhampton - West Brom
Jaz Richards - Swansea from age of 15.
James Collins - Newport - Cardiff

Allen - Carmarthen - Swansea
King - Barnstable - Leicster
Ramsey - Caerphily - Cardiff
Edwards - Pontesbury - Shrewsbury
Ledley - Cardiff - Cardiff
Jonny Williams - Kent - Crystal Palace
Vaughn - Abergele - Crewe

Kanu - London - Arsenal
Bale - Cardiff - Southampton
Williams, Milton Keynes - MK Dons
Cotteril - Cardiff - Bristol City
Vokes - Southampton - AFCB
Church - Amersham - Wycombe

6 out of 25 born in SE Wales.

At the Euros only 6 of our squad came from South East Wales and only 4 came through our academy. I would say that is bleak.



pretty sure if you look back through welsh squads of yesteryear youll find the same sort of make up..
for 3 million people we produce more than most..where in our country that talent is well thats another thing..
have to add that if you took players that would not have qualified years ago out..the contribution of SE Wales would be higher


I think your just arguing with me for arguments sake to be honest fella, the amount of players we produce in South East Waels always has and continues to be shocking which was the original point of my original post

Its time we stopped blaming everyone else and started championing the up and coming footballers of south east wales so they dominate our national squad as they should.



i dont argue about anything i dont believe..and boy do i believe all this academy should be this that and other is nonesense..and have backed it up...
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby MOZZER1 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:56 pm

youth football is a mugs game a cattle market rv
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby RV Casual » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:06 pm

MOZZER1 wrote:youth football is a mugs game a cattle market rv


Moz,

At the Euros, 8 of our Squad were born in England, 14 of them started their careers at English Clubs

South East Wales, the highest populated part of our nation was one of the most underrepresented areas.

That is shocking mate, however you look at it.
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby dogfound » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:25 pm

RV Casual wrote:
MOZZER1 wrote:youth football is a mugs game a cattle market rv


Moz,

At the Euros, 8 of our Squad were born in England, 14 of them started their careers at English Clubs

South East Wales, the highest populated part of our nation was one of the most underrepresented areas.

That is shocking mate, however you look at it.



if you take that stat isolated yes..
but the area has never produced in big numbers..even going back to our FA cup win..only 3 Welshmen {as it happens all Cardiff born }.for me its one thing throwing more and more money at the academy but if the talent isnt there, well its not there..and bare in mind these boys now play a hell of a lot more games against other academies that could but dont spot these wonder kids that dont make it with us..
ive read all the posts about how we should be producing and how the academy is failing but cant find much to back it up tbh....we like most clubs seem to have sort of golden eras where a batch will come through ..
im not anti academy as such, but i am dubious about seeing anysort of improvements ..not just at our club..
many moons ago when i was a kid the percentage of kids taken by clubs was a small fraction of what it is now yet the amount becoming pros seems much the same..
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby pembroke allan » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:39 pm

dogfound wrote:
RV Casual wrote:
MOZZER1 wrote:youth football is a mugs game a cattle market rv


Moz,

At the Euros, 8 of our Squad were born in England, 14 of them started their careers at English Clubs

South East Wales, the highest populated part of our nation was one of the most underrepresented areas.

That is shocking mate, however you look at it.



if you take that stat isolated yes..
but the area has never produced in big numbers..even going back to our FA cup win..only 3 Welshmen {as it happens all Cardiff born }.for me its one thing throwing more and more money at the academy but if the talent isnt there, well its not there..and bare in mind these boys now play a hell of a lot more games against other academies that could but dont spot these wonder kids that dont make it with us..
ive read all the posts about how we should be producing and how the academy is failing but cant find much to back it up tbh....we like most clubs seem to have sort of golden eras where a batch will come through ..
im not anti academy as such, but i am dubious about seeing anysort of improvements ..not just at our club..
many moons ago when i was a kid the percentage of kids taken by clubs was a small fraction of what it is now yet the amount becoming pros seems much the same..




Maybe someone should take look at another clubs academy and see how many have made it in past ten years with exception of a couple like crewe/Southampton i bet won't find very many youngster that have gone on to bigger things ?
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby MOZZER1 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:48 pm

rv could be here all night talking about youth footie but i,m cream crackered . don't get too hooked up over it the uk academies are surplus to requirements anyway . academies are just a talking shop these days and that' s across the uk not just cardiff
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby dogfound » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:04 am

pembroke allan wrote:
dogfound wrote:
RV Casual wrote:
MOZZER1 wrote:youth football is a mugs game a cattle market rv


Moz,

At the Euros, 8 of our Squad were born in England, 14 of them started their careers at English Clubs

South East Wales, the highest populated part of our nation was one of the most underrepresented areas.

That is shocking mate, however you look at it.



if you take that stat isolated yes..
but the area has never produced in big numbers..even going back to our FA cup win..only 3 Welshmen {as it happens all Cardiff born }.for me its one thing throwing more and more money at the academy but if the talent isnt there, well its not there..and bare in mind these boys now play a hell of a lot more games against other academies that could but dont spot these wonder kids that dont make it with us..
ive read all the posts about how we should be producing and how the academy is failing but cant find much to back it up tbh....we like most clubs seem to have sort of golden eras where a batch will come through ..
im not anti academy as such, but i am dubious about seeing anysort of improvements ..not just at our club..
many moons ago when i was a kid the percentage of kids taken by clubs was a small fraction of what it is now yet the amount becoming pros seems much the same..




Maybe someone should take look at another clubs academy and see how many have made it in past ten years with exception of a couple like crewe/Southampton i bet won't find very many youngster that have gone on to bigger things ?



thats my point Al...they brought mini football in 20 odd years ago following the Ajax model which would produce more talent..?..lots of clubs and the FA have spent an absolute fortune on academy football..the FAW give grants too..yet none of this seems to be denting the amount of foreign players ...and its not like the top tier or our club has been significantly better represented
with locals throughout history..in fact id imagine percentage wise England and Scotlands {by this i mean Scottish players in top tier }home based top tier players has reduced more than ours {Wales } and if so their academies are not working either..?
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby RV Casual » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:09 am

pembroke allan wrote:
dogfound wrote:
RV Casual wrote:
MOZZER1 wrote:youth football is a mugs game a cattle market rv


Moz,

At the Euros, 8 of our Squad were born in England, 14 of them started their careers at English Clubs

South East Wales, the highest populated part of our nation was one of the most underrepresented areas.

That is shocking mate, however you look at it.



if you take that stat isolated yes..
but the area has never produced in big numbers..even going back to our FA cup win..only 3 Welshmen {as it happens all Cardiff born }.for me its one thing throwing more and more money at the academy but if the talent isnt there, well its not there..and bare in mind these boys now play a hell of a lot more games against other academies that could but dont spot these wonder kids that dont make it with us..
ive read all the posts about how we should be producing and how the academy is failing but cant find much to back it up tbh....we like most clubs seem to have sort of golden eras where a batch will come through ..
im not anti academy as such, but i am dubious about seeing anysort of improvements ..not just at our club..
many moons ago when i was a kid the percentage of kids taken by clubs was a small fraction of what it is now yet the amount becoming pros seems much the same..




Maybe someone should take look at another clubs academy and see how many have made it in past ten years with exception of a couple like crewe/Southampton i bet won't find very many youngster that have gone on to bigger things ?


someone being me is it mate?

What about Hull who picked up Robertson for £3 Million and sold him for £8 Million

What about Swansea who produced Allen and Davies, picked up Williams and Taylor early on, developed all four and sold all four on for a big profit.

What about Man Utd who have given us Rashford, Lingard, Welbeck amongst others

We haven't produced a single player in the last 10 years that has gone on to play at the top level, in fact we havnt produced a half decent player in 20 years , surely to god you can see that is a problem, if not we truly are fucked.
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby dogfound » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:11 am

MOZZER1 wrote:rv could be here all night talking about youth footie but i,m cream crackered . don't get too hooked up over it the uk academies are surplus to requirements anyway . academies are just a talking shop these days and that' s across the uk not just cardiff



far to many kids involved.academies/ developement centers / satelite centres..kids get their hopes up..parents get carried away and spend an absolute fortune one way or another when everyone knows full well how many of that squad have ANY sort of chance ,which is a small single figure percentage..the rest allthough decent are there merely as a vehicle for the few..
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby RV Casual » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:18 am

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=198909&p=2038531#p2038531

I can't link you to it but I promise you there is a picture of Camarasa shaking hands witb Morrison with Patterson in the background and he look like he hasn't got an ounce of fat on him the bloke is so thin he looks ill.
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby dogfound » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:21 am

RV Casual wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
dogfound wrote:
RV Casual wrote:
MOZZER1 wrote:youth football is a mugs game a cattle market rv


Moz,

At the Euros, 8 of our Squad were born in England, 14 of them started their careers at English Clubs

South East Wales, the highest populated part of our nation was one of the most underrepresented areas.

That is shocking mate, however you look at it.



if you take that stat isolated yes..
but the area has never produced in big numbers..even going back to our FA cup win..only 3 Welshmen {as it happens all Cardiff born }.for me its one thing throwing more and more money at the academy but if the talent isnt there, well its not there..and bare in mind these boys now play a hell of a lot more games against other academies that could but dont spot these wonder kids that dont make it with us..
ive read all the posts about how we should be producing and how the academy is failing but cant find much to back it up tbh....we like most clubs seem to have sort of golden eras where a batch will come through ..
im not anti academy as such, but i am dubious about seeing anysort of improvements ..not just at our club..
many moons ago when i was a kid the percentage of kids taken by clubs was a small fraction of what it is now yet the amount becoming pros seems much the same..




Maybe someone should take look at another clubs academy and see how many have made it in past ten years with exception of a couple like crewe/Southampton i bet won't find very many youngster that have gone on to bigger things ?


someone being me is it mate?

What about Hull who picked up Robertson for £3 Million and sold him for £8 Million

What about Swansea who produced Allen and Davies, picked up Williams and Taylor early on, developed all four and sold all four on for a big profit.

What about Man Utd who have given us Rashford, Lingard, Welbeck amongst others

We haven't produced a single player in the last 10 years that has gone on to play at the top level, in fact we havnt produced a half decent player in 20 years , surely to god you can see that is a problem, if not we truly are fucked.



your moving away from academies and local talent with this...
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Re: One in twenty years...??

Postby dogfound » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:23 am

RV Casual wrote:http://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=198909&p=2038531#p2038531

I can't link you to it but I promise you there is a picture of Camarasa shaking hands witb Morrison with Patterson in the background and he look like he hasn't got an ounce of fat on him the bloke is so thin he looks ill.



i havent mentioned Patterson...only to say i hadnt seen the thread.
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