FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS 5 FOUND GUILTY

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FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS 5 FOUND GUILTY

Postby Forever Blue » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:57 am

DAY 7 / FINAL DAY

The five Cardiff City and Aston Villa supporters denied using or threatening unlawful violence but were convicted by a jury after trial, all were granted bail.


Two Cardiff City fans and three Aston Villa supporters have been found guilty of violent disorder at a pub following the Championship clash last summer.


The jury of nine men and three women returned unanimous guilty verdicts. The defendants sighed and shook their heads as the verdicts were delivered.




Friday 6th October 2018

ALL ACCUSED GRANTED BAIL


April 2018 there were Sixteen Cardiff City and Aston Villa fans in court over violent clashes
Sixteen people were charged with using or threatening unlawful violence.


Some have had charges dropped, others charges dropped on first day of Court and a few pleaded guilty.

On the final day of Court there were only five Cardiff City and Aston Villa supporters left and all were found guilty by the jury.




Football fans who 'threw punches and launched bottles' in pub brawl guilty of violent disorder


Friday 6th October 2018

The five Cardiff City and Aston Villa supporters denied using or threatening unlawful violence but were convicted by a jury after trial



The five Cardiff City and Aston Villa supporters denied using or threatening unlawful violence but were convicted by a jury after trial

Two Cardiff City fans and three Aston Villa supporters have been found guilty of violent disorder at a pub following the Championship clash last summer.

Bluebirds supporters Nathan Pleace and Vincent Richards, along with Villa supporters Mark Baker, Gary Tucker and Brett Clarke, denied the charge but were convicted by a jury after a trial.

Opening the case at Cardiff Crown Court last week prosecutor James Wilson said: "The incident involved punches, kicks and bottles being thrown."

The court heard the public disorder occurred at The Cornwall pub on the junction between Cornwall Street and Hereford Street in Grangetown on August 12 last year.


The disorder was caught on CCTV both inside the pub and on the streets outside.




Post-football match brawl saw 'group of 20' in 'shorts, jeans and hoods' target city pub
Pleace, 30, of Andrew’s Road in Llandaff North, Cardiff, was seen to throw items including a bottle at the rival group and kick a man on the floor.

He accepted throwing a bottle but said he did it to keep the other men back. In his evidence he told the jury he thought his actions were "necessary".

Prosecutors said he had been before the courts for 12 previous offences, including affray, and was made the subject of a football banning order in 2011, with which he subsequently failed to comply.


Football fan 'saw big man trying to smash bottle over someone's head' during post-match pub brawl
Richards, 32, of Leckwith Road in Llandough, was caught on camera gesturing towards the Villa supporters.

He admitted he was at the scene but denied using or threatening unlawful violence. He told the jury he felt "angry" describing the pub as his "second home".

The court heard he had three previous convictions for affray and drug-related offending.


Football fan 'was acting in self-defence' from 'maniac' throwing punches during pub brawl
Baker, 47, of Ashburton Road in Birmingham, was seen throwing an object, which prosecutors alleged was a bottle or a glass.

In his evidence he said the item was not intended to hit anyone.


The court heard he had two previous convictions for possessing cocaine with intent to supply and public disorder.

Judge Neil Bidder QC again advised him to get legal representation, warning him: "You are unquestionably facing a prison sentence."


Gary Tucker (Image: Wales News Service)
Tucker, 51, of Holly Lane in Birmingham, was seen to get off the minibus and throw an object down Hereford Street.

He accepted getting off the minibus at the pub and throwing a plastic cup out of "frustration" in the heat of the moment.

Prosecutors said he had been before the courts for 17 previous offences including affray, assault occasioning actual bodily harm and causing criminal damage.

The court heard Tucker was made the subject of a football banning order in 1996. Judge Bidder described his record as "shocking".



Clarke, 40, of Winchester Drive in Solihull, was seen to run off the minibus before punching and kicking a Bluebirds fan.

He denied it was him on the CCTV. Prosecutors said he had no relevant previous convictions or cautions.

The jury of nine men and three women returned unanimous guilty verdicts. The defendants sighed and shook their heads as the verdicts were delivered.

Judge Bidder said: "Thank you very much, members of the jury. May I thank you for the care you have taken with this case."

The defendants were granted bail until they are sentenced.











DAY 6: CARDIFF CROWN COURT CARDIFF / ASTON VILL FANS

Media Wales & Birmingham live news

Wednesday 3rd October 2018


Football fan 'was acting in self-defence' from 'maniac' throwing punches during pub brawl


"One Villa fan was behaving like a "maniac" and was throwing punches "from the moment he came through the door".



A football fan accused of being part of a "huge disorder" in a Cardiff pub following a match told a court he felt "angry" as the venue was his "second home".

Five men are on trial following a post-game brawl at The Cornwall pub in Grangetown following the Championship clash between Cardiff City and Aston Villa on August 12 last year.

Cardiff City supporters Nathan Pleace and Vincent Richards, along with Aston Villa supporters Mark Baker, Gary Tucker and Brett Clarke, all deny violent disorder and are on trial at Cardiff Crown Court .








On Wednesday Cardiff City fan Richards, 32, told the jury he was offered a free ticket to the game on the day and arrived at the stadium five minutes before kick off.

He said he drank one pint at half-time but consumed no alcohol before the match.

The court heard how Richards and a friend made their way towards The Cornwall after the game finished. He said he knew the assistant manager Gemma Healey very well and described the pub as as his "second home".

The atmosphere in the pub was described as good by Richards as Cardiff had won 3-0.

CCTV played in court showed Richards at the side entrance as a group of Aston Villa fans arrived at the scene.

He said he heard a noise outside and proceeded to the side to see what was going on.

He said: "To have someone coming to your home and behave like that, you can't accept that behaviour."

The court heard Richards managed to close the side doors and made his way to the main entrance.

He said: "The scene in the doorway made me feel nervous and more angry as it went on.

"You needed to do something to not let it go further, to another level. We needed to help each other and close that door."

The footage showed Richards, of Leckwith Road in Llandough, throwing a plastic glass at someone outside the pub.

The CCTV also showed him kicking out at a man on the floor, which Richard said was because the man grabbed him "by the b*******".

Despite kicking out Richards said he believed he didn't make any contact with the man and instead hit someone else's shin.

Richards said the man on the floor was behaving like a "maniac" and was throwing punches "from the moment he came through the door".

After an exchange of punches between the man on the ground and Richards and others the man who had been on the floor managed to get out of the pub.

He added: "I was trying to stop the man from being aggressive – I had no option in my head.

"I have mates there and there are women – my priority was not to let him back in and behave the way he was around my friends and my family."

When asked what was going through his head at that moment, he said: "Self-defence and to defend whatever is around me."

Prosecutor James Wilson asked Richards why he didn't help close the door instead or phone the police.

Richards replied: "There's not much time to do that and get your phone out. I couldn't say: 'Excuse me mate can you leave the pub?'.

"It doesn't work like that in that situation."


The defendant said he accepted he made a mistake and understood his role in the act.

He added: "Looking back, in hindsight, I knew I shouldn't have done that. I only realised two weeks after that I went too far and for that I apologise."

The court heard Richards handed himself in to the police but gave a no comment interview.








On Tuesday fellow Cardiff fan Pleace, 30, of Andrew's Road in Llandaff North, also gave evidence.

Aston Villa fans Tucker, 51, of Holly Lane in Birmingham and Baker, 47, of Ashburton Road in Birmingham, also gave their evidence.

Clarke, 40, of Winchester Drive in Solihull, chose not to give evidence.

The trial continues.









































DAY 5:

Tuesday 2nd October / Cardiff Crown Court

Cardiff / Villa

Villa fans arrived at 7pm at Cardiff Pub 2hrs after game had finished.


Football fan 'saw big man trying to smash bottle over someone's head' during post-match pub brawl


Court Reporter

Birmingham live / Media Wales

Tuesday 2nd October 2018


A football fan accused of being part of “huge disorder” in a Cardiff pub following a match told a court he took “necessary” action.

Five men are on trial following a post-game brawl at The Cornwall pub in Grangetown following the Championship clash between Cardiff City and Aston Villa on August 12 last year.

Cardiff City supporters Nathan Pleace and Vincent Richards, along with Aston Villa supporters Mark Baker, Gary Tucker and Brett Clarke all deny violent disorder and are on trial at Cardiff Crown Court.





On Tuesday three of the defendants gave evidence in their own defence.

Bluebirds fan Pleace, 30, of Andrew’s Road, in Llandaff North, told the jury he and a few friends were heading to the city centre through Grangetown after the match and headed towards The Cornwall.

He said had consumed four of five pints of lager.

CCTV played in court showed him standing outside the pub when a bottle smashed nearby.

He said: “I thought it was a commotion between locals but when I heard their accent I knew they weren’t from here.

“The first thing I saw was a big man with a bottle physically trying to smash a bottle over someone’s head. I didn’t want the man coming any closer to us.”

The footage shows Pleace throwing a plastic glass at the men during what he described as “huge disorder”.

The CCTV also showed him kicking out at a man on the floor and appearing to throw a punch, which he described as a shove, to a man on the floor.

He described the men as “agitated” and said they were calling people for a fight.

Asked what was going through his head, he said: “You haven’t got time to think – it was just one of those moments.”

He then picked up a chair from the pub which he said was a natural reaction. Pleace said he thought the group’s intentions were to cause serious harm to people in and out of the pub.

He added: “I thought everything I was doing on that day was necessary.”





Fellow defendant Tucker, 51, of Holly Lane in Birmingham, said he and other Villa fans left the Cardiff City Stadium when Aston Villa were losing at half-time. He said they went on a “pub crawl” and went to several pubs around Cardiff.

The court heard how the men said they were going to stop off at the first off licence they saw.

The bus of around 20 to 30 fans stopped outside Millennium Fish & Chips in Cornwall Street, opposite The Cownwall.

Tucker told the court he was on the bus when he heard someone shout “pub, pub” and they made their way towards the pub. CCTV was shown to the jury of the bus arriving.




Giving evidence Tucker said he didn’t enter the pub but he threw an object – believed to be a plastic pint glass – out of “frustration” and felt it was “necessary”.

He said it was in the heat of the moment but wasn’t sure why he had thrown an object.

When Tucker was arrested he declined legal advice and gave a no comment interview until he had spoken with a solicitor he knew.






Baker, 47, of Ashburton Road in Birmingham, was dressed in a white T-shirt and blue shorts on the footage and said he stood out like a “sore thumb”.

He told the court if he was coming for violence he would have dressed differently.

CCTV showed Baker throwing a can down the street, which he said wasn’t intended to hit anyone.

He also told the jury their behaviour was “childish” and they acted like a “bunch of lads”.

After heading back to the bus the court heard Baker returned to the pub. He said he heard someone was “trapped inside” and went to try and help.

When he was arrested he declined to have free independent legal advice, claiming the solicitors could have been “useless”.

Clarke, 40 of Winchester Drive in Solihull, also involved in the case, chose not to give evidence.

Richards, 32, of Leckwith Road in Llandough, is due to begin his defence on Wednesday.





All of the defendants deny violent disorder.

The trial continues.
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FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS 5 FOUND GUILTY

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Re: Cardiff City and Aston Villa fans 'threw punches and lau

Postby dogfound » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:44 am

Not sure what your supposed to do tbh......your sat having a pint when a minibus full of idiots hell bent on fighting the pub turn up....would there really be any locals in court for defending themselves / their mates / their local boozer if the idiots had driven off and decided instead to attack a random pub in Hereford or Worcester on the way home....I think not



DAY 3 / DAY 4


Post-football match brawl saw 'group of 20' in 'shorts, jeans and hoods' target city pub

By Liz Day (Court Reporter)


27/09/18

Smashed bottles, broken plastic and spilled beer covered the street outside a pub following a fight between football fans after a match, a court heard.



Cardiff City supporters Nathan Pleace and Vincent Richards, along with Aston Villa supporters Mark Baker, Gary Tucker and Brett Clarke all deny violent disorder and are on trial at Cardiff Crown Court.




On Wednesday Jemma Healey, assistant manager of The Cornwall, said she saw a group of men approaching the pub looking "riled up".

The court heard the incident occurred at the pub on the junction between Cornwall Street and Hereford Street in the Grangetown area of Cardiff on the evening of August 12 last year.

Giving evidence, Ms Healey said the pub was "busy" and they started serving drinks in plastic cups, instead of glasses, two hours before kick-off at 3pm.

She said she the pub had CCTV, which she could not see from the bar, but was able to view from the office.

Asked if anything on the footage caught her attention, she replied: “A group of lads walking towards the pub."

Ms Healey described seeing about 20 men she had never seen before approaching the pub from Hereford Street, dressed in shorts and jeans, some with hoods up.

She told the court they were running and waving their arms around.

Asked if she had any concerns when she saw that on the CCTV, she replied: “It didn’t look great, no. I thought there might be an altercation or something.”

She said she went into the foyer and saw a "big guy" with a couple of other men standing by the door. She described seeing more men come around the corner.

The witness added: "I didn’t hear words, just shouts. They seemed a bit riled up."

Ms Healey said she told them: "Get the f*** out of the pub." There was laughter from the dock as she said it.

She said she tried to shut and bolt the door, with help from other customers, then felt the door being punched from outside.

The witness told the court she went back into the bar to check on the customers and saw the "big guy" inside, looking "scary".

Asked how she was feeling at that stage, she replied: "I was worried they were inside now."


She said there was "pushing and shoving" and she again told the men to leave.

Questioned about what she saw, she said: "From the corner of my eye, it looked like punches were being thrown."

Ms Healey said she went outside after the men left the bar and saw them getting on to a minibus, which was parked on the corner.

She watched the minibus drive away.

Describing the aftermath, she said: "There were smashed plastics, smashed bottles of beer, spilled."

She added: "There was an old guy who was injured. He had a cut to the back of his head, a bloodshot eye and a cut to his face.

"There was a younger guy with injuries. He had a cut to his head as well."

She said the police arrived and she closed the pub early, at around 9pm, having been standing in for her boss and on duty with another female staff member.

Asked how she felt, she replied: "Obviously upset and a bit shaken and angry."




Cardiff City supporters Pleace, 30, of Andrew’s Road in Llandaff North, Cardiff, and Richards, 32, of Leckwith Road in Llandough, deny violent disorder.

Villa supporters Baker, 47, of Ashburton Road in Birmingham; Tucker, 51, of Holly Lane in Birmingham, and Clarke, 40, of Winchester Drive in Solihull, also deny the charge.




The trial continues.











DAY 2

One Cardiff lad acquitted and rightly so :thumbright: :thumbright:

Cardiff fans sat in their own local 7pm at night get attacked by Villa fans.

Hopefully common sense prevails and all Cardiff fans get acquitted :thumbright: :thumbright:

Another witch hunt on Cardiff fans, 7pm at night and still get arrested even though they are attacked and in their local pub.

DAY 1


Cardiff City and Aston Villa fans 'threw punches and launched bottles' during match day pub brawl


Judge Neil Bidder QC said: "This case involves an incident of serious public disorder."

The court heard the incident occurred at The Cornwall pub on the junction between Cornwall Street and Hereford Street in Grangetown on August 12 last year.


By Liz Day

Court Reporter

Wednesday 26th September 2018



The football fans deny violent disorder and are on trial at Cardiff Crown Court

Cardiff City and Aston Villa fans clashed by throwing punches and launching bottles in a fight at a pub on match day, a court heard.

Bluebirds supporters Nathan Pleace and Vincent Richards, along with Villa supporters Mark Baker, Gary Tucker and Brett Clarke all deny violent disorder and are on trial at Cardiff Crown Court.

Judge Neil Bidder QC said: "This case involves an incident of serious public disorder."

The court heard the incident occurred at The Cornwall pub on the junction between Cornwall Street and Hereford Street in Grangetown on August 12 last year.

James Wilson, prosecuting, said kick-off was at 3pm and the match happened "without incident".

He said later that evening, a group of Aston Villa supporters went to The Cornwall on a minibus and there was "a fight" with Cardiff City supporters.

Mr Wilson said: "The incident lasted for about five minutes and involved punches, kicks and bottles being thrown."


The case continues today.
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Re: Cardiff City and Aston Villa fans 'threw punches and lau

Postby Forever Blue » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:05 am

DAY 2


UPDATED 26/09/18

The court heard the pub was in a residential area and the incident happened on a summer evening with members of the public around.

Prosecutors said the minibus pulled up on Cornwall Street and the Aston Villa group got out and headed towards the pub.

The disorder was caught on CCTV, both inside the pub and on the streets outside.

Mr Wilson said there were two confrontations, with the incident starting at the front of the pub and moving to the side entrance.

Each defendant denies using or threatening unlawful violence. The prosecutor said they may not necessarily have used violence by punching, kicking or throwing a bottle.

He added: "It is the prosecution case that even those who did not inflict violence still encouraged and assisted such violence."

Pleace, 30, of Andrew’s Road in Llandaff North, Cardiff, who is represented by Christopher Rees, denies violent disorder.

He was caught on camera leaving the pub as the Aston Villa fans approached, with a bottle in his right hand.

Prosecutors said he threw the bottle towards the rival group and it smashed in the middle of them.

Pleace was seen to grab other items from the bar and throw them at the Aston Villa fans, as well as kicking a man on the floor.

He was arrested on November 7 last year and gave a "no comment" interview.

The defendant accepts he was outside the pub when the Aston Villa group arrived and he accepts throwing a bottle, but says he did it to keep the other group back.

Richards, 32, of Leckwith Road in Llandough, represented by Hashim Salman, denies violent disorder.

He was seen on CCTV gesturing towards the Aston Villa supporters. He accepts he was at the scene.



Baker, 47, of Ashburton Road in Birmingham, who is representing himself, was seen on CCTV throwing an object, which prosecutors allege was a bottle or a glass.

Mr Wilson said: "He made no effort to intervene or pull back members of the group."

Baker was identified by officers from West Midlands Police and arrested on October 26, 2017. He was interviewed later that day and answered "no comment" to all questions.

The court heard investigators found a message on his phone, referring to CCTV, saying: "Looks like we're all f***ed."

Tucker, 51, of Holly Lane in Birmingham, who is represented by Richard Gibbs, was seen to get off the minibus and throw an object down Hereford Street.

Prosecutors said he saw a fellow Aston Villa fan attack a Bluebirds fan with a bottle, but did not try to intervene, instead "rubbing his hands together".

He was identified by officers from West Midlands Police and arrested on October 26 last year. The court heard he opened the door and said to officers: "I've been waiting for you."

Tucker accepts he got off the minibus at the pub, but denies being involved in any violence.






The defendants are on trial at Cardiff Crown Court

Clarke, 40, of Winchester Drive in Solihull, who is also represented by Mr Gibbs, denies it was him on the CCTV.

Prosecutors allege he was wearing a "distinctive blue coat" and identification will be a matter for the jury.

Mr Wilson said Clarke was seen to run off the minibus before punching and kicking a Bluebirds fan.


He did not answer any questions when he was interviewed by the police and made no admissions as to whether he was present or not.

Rhodri Jones, 28, from Radyr Court Close in Cardiff, who was represented by Matthew Cobbe, denied violent disorder. Prosecutors offered no evidence against him and he was discharged.

The trial, before a jury of nine men and three women, is expected to last for about two weeks. The trial continues.
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Forever Blue » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:42 pm

FB

John Coleman:

What a pity they didn't mention an important fact: IT HAPPENED AT 7PM! In my opinion, no Cardiff should be in court for this. Those Villa scum should've been back in Brum by that time. I left the pub around 6.20, to catch my train home and there were a few City, some locals and a dog sleeping on the floor. Every one of those Villa in that minibus should be done, otherwise don't bother and let it go. Justice, my arse.
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby bluebirdoct1962 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:50 pm

Forever Blue wrote:FB

John Coleman:

What a pity they didn't mention an important fact: IT HAPPENED AT 7PM! In my opinion, no Cardiff should be in court for this. Those Villa scum should've been back in Brum by that time. I left the pub around 6.20, to catch my train home and there were a few City, some locals and a dog sleeping on the floor. Every one of those Villa in that minibus should be done, otherwise don't bother and let it go. Justice, my arse.

Why didn’t those ‘tough guys’ try it around 530. Mmmm
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Forever Blue » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:57 pm

Aston Villa fans accused of throwing punches and bottles in pub brawl

Birmingham Live / Aston Villa News

Wednesday 26th September 2018

Aston Villa fans traded punches with rivals from Cardiff City on the day of a vital Championship match, a court has heard.

Villa fans Mark Baker, Gary Tucker and Brett Clarke all deny violent disorder and are on trial at Cardiff Crown Court.

The accusations surround the away clash with Cardiff last year and Bluebirds supporters Nathan Pleace and Vincent Richards also stand accused.





The court heard the incident occurred at The Cornwall pub on August 12 last year.

Each defendant denies using or threatening unlawful violence. James Wilson, prosecuting, said they may not necessarily have used violence by punching, kicking or throwing a bottle but assisted in the incident.

He said kick-off was at 3pm and the match happened "without incident".

He said later that evening, a group of Aston Villa supporters went to The Cornwall on a minibus and there was "a fight" with Cardiff City supporters.

Mr Wilson said: "The incident lasted for about five minutes and involved punches, kicks and bottles being thrown."

The court heard the pub was in a residential area and the incident happened on a summer evening with members of the public around.

Prosecutors said the minibus pulled up on Cornwall Street and the Aston Villa group got out and headed towards the pub.

The disorder was caught on CCTV, both inside the pub and on the streets outside.

Mr Wilson said there were two confrontations, with the incident starting at the front of the pub and moving to the side entrance.

Each defendant denies using or threatening unlawful violence. The prosecutor said they may not necessarily have used violence by punching, kicking or throwing a bottle.


He added: "It is the prosecution case that even those who did not inflict violence still encouraged and assisted such violence."

Judge Neil Bidder QC said: "This case involves an incident of serious public disorder."

Pleace, 30, of Andrew’s Road in Cardiff, who is represented by Christopher Rees, denies violent disorder.

He was caught on camera leaving the pub as the Aston Villa fans approached, with a bottle in his right hand.

Prosecutors said he threw the bottle towards the rival group and it smashed in the middle of them.

Pleace was seen to grab other items from the bar and throw them at the Aston Villa fans, as well as kicking a man on the floor.

He was arrested on November 7 last year and gave a "no comment" interview.

The defendant accepts he was outside the pub when the Aston Villa group arrived and he accepts throwing a bottle, but says he did it to keep the other group back.

Richards, 32, of Leckwith Road in Llandough, represented by Hashim Salman, denies violent disorder.

He was seen on CCTV gesturing towards the Aston Villa supporters. He accepts he was at the scene.

Baker, 47, of Ashburton Road in Birmingham, who is representing himself, was seen on CCTV throwing an object, which prosecutors allege was a bottle or a glass.

Mr Wilson said: "He made no effort to intervene or pull back members of the group."

Baker was identified by officers from West Midlands Police and arrested on October 26, 2017. He was interviewed later that day and answered "no comment" to all questions.

The court heard investigators found a message on his phone, referring to CCTV, saying: "Looks like we're all f***ed."

Tucker, 51, of Holly Lane in Birmingham, who is represented by Richard Gibbs, was seen to get off the minibus and throw an object down Hereford Street.

Prosecutors said he saw a fellow Aston Villa fan attack a Bluebirds fan with a bottle, but did not try to intervene, instead "rubbing his hands together".

He was identified by officers from West Midlands Police and arrested on October 26 last year. The court heard he opened the door and said to officers: "I've been waiting for you."

Tucker accepts he got off the minibus at the pub, but denies being involved in any violence.

Clarke, 40, of Winchester Drive in Solihull, who is also represented by Mr Gibbs, denies it was him on the CCTV.

Prosecutors allege he was wearing a "distinctive blue coat" and identification will be a matter for the jury.

Mr Wilson said Clarke was seen to run off the minibus before punching and kicking a Bluebirds fan.

He did not answer any questions when he was interviewed by the police and made no admissions as to whether he was present or not.

Rhodri Jones, 28, from Radyr Court Close in Cardiff, who was represented by Matthew Cobbe, denied violent disorder. Prosecutors offered no evidence against him and he was discharged.

The trial, before a jury of nine men and three women, is expected to last for about two weeks. The trial continues.
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Forever Blue » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:30 pm

One Cardiff lad acquitted rightly so aswell :thumbright:
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby TheHangedMan » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:41 pm

Forever Blue wrote: One Cardiff lad acquitted rightly so aswell :thumbright:

Good news, they should all be acquitted IMO, except the Villa scum of course.
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Forever Blue » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:44 pm

TheHangedMan wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:One Cardiff lad acquitted rightly so aswell :thumbright:

Good news, they should all be acquitted IMO, except the Villa scum of course.



Jim, 100% correct Cardiff were in their local pub, Villa came there in the evening looking for trouble attacked it, so your suppose to defend yourself surely.
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby jimmy_rat » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:39 pm

What a waste of taxpayers money. Ffs
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:41 pm

I think that there are certain pubs and places to avoid in all common sense. Perhaps this shouldn't be so, but it is in reality. I can assure you that in other circumstances I would be working for an acquittal , probably successfully , but I would also have been advising the clients to think carefully in future about being cautious of putting a target on their back.

In a perfect world it would be possible for football fans to congregate in a pub with other supporters and have fun celebrating or regretting a game, just as it would for someone to walk down Railton Road in Brixton wearing a Swiss watch or carrying an iPad. However, we know that in the real world certain perfectly lawful and reasonable acts can put us in particular danger.
Of course, we can hardly tell these people that they've done anything wrong by lingering in that pub on a match day, but whether we like it or not, we could anticipate the dangers of doing so.

This is particularly so in a society where defending yourself is generally frowned upon by the liberal elite who now comprise such a part of the establishment and judiciary. Very very many years ago I was in Newcastle on a weekend pass with some other soldiers on a day when they were playing Arsenal. We didn't know that - we'd gone to watch the new Peter Sellars film and randomly picked a pub which turned out to be the Newcastle football punch up venue. We all had very short hair and were of an age group and probably loud demeanour which led the locals to think that we were Arsenal fans come to taunt them. In due course we were attacked by what they'd expected to be an overwhelming number of arseholes wielding bottles , glasses and various other weapons . Well, it didn't go that well for them as it turned out and when the local police turned up with dogs and riot helmets they found it now perfectly calm except for a few of the attackers with fairly nasty injuries and a lot of damage .

Now, the reason I tell this tale is because it's very pertinent to what I'm saying here. Although a few of the attackers had various things broken and one of them had unfortunately somehow cut his face on the broken glass he had, the police knew the individuals and found it all very amusing if anything. No one got arrested and I think the attitude was that they'd asked for everything they got . My point is, though, that this would not happen today, would it ?

As you report it here, these defendants were the ones who were attacked and this seems plausible to me because they had obviously not gone to the place to attack Aston Villa fans since they would not have known that they would be there, but the Aston Villa people clearly targeted a location where they might expect to encounter rival fans. In the world of common sense which we used to live in then, the outcome would have been similar to the one in my account of yesteryear in Geordie Land.

My point therefore is that no one regrets the loss of our traditional sense of proportion, justice and plain common sense than I , but we are now stranded in this slightly insane time and space where discretion and logic are nothing but a distant memory and if we are to survive in this society with its topsy turvey realities and moralities, then we must adapt our behaviour and activities so as not to be punished for acts which would be considered quite natural and reasonable in a Christian Democracy.
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby TERRYB » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:46 pm

Forever Blue wrote:
TheHangedMan wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:1 Cardiff lad acquitted rightly so aswell :thumbright:

Good news, they should all be acquitted IMO, except the Villa scum of course.



Jim, 100% correct Cardiff were in their local pub, Villa came there in the evening looking for trouble attacked it, so your suppose to defend yourself surely.


If you go to a Cardiff Pub at 7pm two hours after the final whistle as rival fans
you have done so as a pre planned attack thinking that most of the Cardiff lads will have already gone home. If they really fancied their chances they should have turned up when the pub was full but they wouldn't do that would they? Scum. Hope all the City lads get off free.
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:48 pm

Sorry - got carried away there. I stopped though before I invited the jury to show us that they're loan warriors for common sense standing up against the theocratic establishment and acquit them. I went on auto pilot, but I think that's where I was going.
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Forever Blue » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:49 pm

TERRYB wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
TheHangedMan wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:1 Cardiff lad acquitted rightly so aswell :thumbright:

Good news, they should all be acquitted IMO, except the Villa scum of course.



Jim, 100% correct Cardiff were in their local pub, Villa came there in the evening looking for trouble attacked it, so your suppose to defend yourself surely.


If you go to a Cardiff Pub at 7pm two hours after the final whistle as rival fans
you have done so as a pre planned attack thinking that most of the Cardiff lads will have already gone home. If they really fancied their chances they should have turned up when the pub was full but they wouldn't do that would they? Scum. Hope all the City lads get off free.


100% Agree with you Terry, a Cowardly act by Villa and they were the ones who came looking for trouble.
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby frazier » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:51 pm

We've been here before, remember the jacks attacking the exchange pub? and that was even later, must have been gone 8.30 in the evening. The few city fans in the pub, just like this incident, were forced to defend themselves but the judge still gave one of our lads, Pughy, twelve months prison. One rule for football fans, another rule for everyone else, justice my arse.
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby stephendavid » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:24 pm

Im very close to a few lads who are up my mate got off yesterday(rightly so)another 'thinks' he will get off ie self defence an 2 look like they will get slammed if found guilty as they left the pubs premises so may not be classed as self defence on their part,villa went looking for trouble so as previous posts have said what are you supposed to do allow yourself to be attacked.......
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby dogfound » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:29 pm

SirJimmySchoular wrote:I think that there are certain pubs and places to avoid in all common sense. Perhaps this shouldn't be so, but it is in reality. I can assure you that in other circumstances I would be working for an acquittal , probably successfully , but I would also have been advising the clients to think carefully in future about being cautious of putting a target on their back.

In a perfect world it would be possible for football fans to congregate in a pub with other supporters and have fun celebrating or regretting a game, just as it would for someone to walk down Railton Road in Brixton wearing a Swiss watch or carrying an iPad. However, we know that in the real world certain perfectly lawful and reasonable acts can put us in particular danger.
Of course, we can hardly tell these people that they've done anything wrong by lingering in that pub on a match day, but whether we like it or not, we could anticipate the dangers of doing so.

This is particularly so in a society where defending yourself is generally frowned upon by the liberal elite who now comprise such a part of the establishment and judiciary. Very very many years ago I was in Newcastle on a weekend pass with some other soldiers on a day when they were playing Arsenal. We didn't know that - we'd gone to watch the new Peter Sellars film and randomly picked a pub which turned out to be the Newcastle football punch up venue. We all had very short hair and were of an age group and probably loud demeanour which led the locals to think that we were Arsenal fans come to taunt them. In due course we were attacked by what they'd expected to be an overwhelming number of arseholes wielding bottles , glasses and various other weapons . Well, it didn't go that well for them as it turned out and when the local police turned up with dogs and riot helmets they found it now perfectly calm except for a few of the attackers with fairly nasty injuries and a lot of damage .

Now, the reason I tell this tale is because it's very pertinent to what I'm saying here. Although a few of the attackers had various things broken and one of them had unfortunately somehow cut his face on the broken glass he had, the police knew the individuals and found it all very amusing if anything. No one got arrested and I think the attitude was that they'd asked for everything they got . My point is, though, that this would not happen today, would it ?

As you report it here, these defendants were the ones who were attacked and this seems plausible to me because they had obviously not gone to the place to attack Aston Villa fans since they would not have known that they would be there, but the Aston Villa people clearly targeted a location where they might expect to encounter rival fans. In the world of common sense which we used to live in then, the outcome would have been similar to the one in my account of yesteryear in Geordie Land.

My point therefore is that no one regrets the loss of our traditional sense of proportion, justice and plain common sense than I , but we are now stranded in this slightly insane time and space where discretion and logic are nothing but a distant memory and if we are to survive in this society with its topsy turvey realities and moralities, then we must adapt our behaviour and activities so as not to be punished for acts which would be considered quite natural and reasonable in a Christian Democracy.



I failed to read it mate.....but im sure your generally in agreement with everyone else :thumbup:
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby pembroke allan » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:42 pm

Lasted 5 mins!! No one hurt yet plod spent thousands of ££££s many man hours for this plus court time 2wks :o Shows where their priorities lie...... if this as a sat night no footy involved doubt if anything would be done other than spot fine for disturbing the peace., and people are correct city fans should not be on trial law still stuck in the 80s :old:
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Forever Blue » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:10 pm

Rhodri Jones, 28, from Cardiff, who was represented by Matthew Cobbe, denied violent disorder. Prosecutors offered no evidence against him and he was discharged :thumbright: :thumbright:
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby TheHangedMan » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:29 pm

Forever Blue wrote:Rhodri Jones, 28, from Cardiff, who was represented by Matthew Cobbe, denied violent disorder. Prosecutors offered no evidence against him and he was discharged :thumbright: :thumbright:

But this is the frustrating thing, why did the CPS bring this case to court in the 1st place? This is our money they are wasting FFS. :banghead: not to mention what the defendant had to fork out for a brief. Ludicrous......
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Forever Blue » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:53 pm

TheHangedMan wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:Rhodri Jones, 28, from Cardiff, who was represented by Matthew Cobbe, denied violent disorder. Prosecutors offered no evidence against him and he was discharged :thumbright: :thumbright:

But this is the frustrating thing, why did the CPS bring this case to court in the 1st place? This is our money they are wasting FFS. :banghead: not to mention what the defendant had to fork out for a brief. Ludicrous......


Jim and the worrying he and his family have had.

The CPS in my opinion only listen to the police.
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Alan_in_China » Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:07 am

pembroke allan wrote:Lasted 5 mins!! No one hurt yet plod spent thousands of ££££s many man hours for this plus court time 2wks :o Shows where their priorities lie...... if this as a sat night no footy involved doubt if anything would be done other than spot fine for disturbing the peace., and people are correct city fans should not be on trial law still stuck in the 80s :old:



I think it has a lot more to do with the pre-planned nature of it (on Villa's part anyway).
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Re: Crown Court Day 2: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Forever Blue » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:04 am

DAY 3


Post-football match brawl saw 'group of 20' in 'shorts, jeans and hoods' target city pub

By Liz Day (Court Reporter)


27/09/18

Smashed bottles, broken plastic and spilled beer covered the street outside a pub following a fight between football fans after a match, a court heard.

Cardiff City supporters Nathan Pleace and Vincent Richards, along with Aston Villa supporters Mark Baker, Gary Tucker and Brett Clarke all deny violent disorder and are on trial at Cardiff Crown Court.

On Wednesday Jemma Healey, assistant manager of The Cornwall, said she saw a group of men approaching the pub looking "riled up".

The court heard the incident occurred at the pub on the junction between Cornwall Street and Hereford Street in the Grangetown area of Cardiff on the evening of August 12 last year.

Giving evidence, Ms Healey said the pub was "busy" and they started serving drinks in plastic cups, instead of glasses, two hours before kick-off at 3pm.

She said she the pub had CCTV, which she could not see from the bar, but was able to view from the office.

Asked if anything on the footage caught her attention, she replied: “A group of lads walking towards the pub."

Ms Healey described seeing about 20 men she had never seen before approaching the pub from Hereford Street, dressed in shorts and jeans, some with hoods up.

She told the court they were running and waving their arms around.

Asked if she had any concerns when she saw that on the CCTV, she replied: “It didn’t look great, no. I thought there might be an altercation or something.”

She said she went into the foyer and saw a "big guy" with a couple of other men standing by the door. She described seeing more men come around the corner.

The witness added: "I didn’t hear words, just shouts. They seemed a bit riled up."

Ms Healey said she told them: "Get the f*** out of the pub." There was laughter from the dock as she said it.

She said she tried to shut and bolt the door, with help from other customers, then felt the door being punched from outside.

The witness told the court she went back into the bar to check on the customers and saw the "big guy" inside, looking "scary".

Asked how she was feeling at that stage, she replied: "I was worried they were inside now."


She said there was "pushing and shoving" and she again told the men to leave.

Questioned about what she saw, she said: "From the corner of my eye, it looked like punches were being thrown."

Ms Healey said she went outside after the men left the bar and saw them getting on to a minibus, which was parked on the corner.

She watched the minibus drive away.

Describing the aftermath, she said: "There were smashed plastics, smashed bottles of beer, spilled."

She added: "There was an old guy who was injured. He had a cut to the back of his head, a bloodshot eye and a cut to his face.

"There was a younger guy with injuries. He had a cut to his head as well."

She said the police arrived and she closed the pub early, at around 9pm, having been standing in for her boss and on duty with another female staff member.

Asked how she felt, she replied: "Obviously upset and a bit shaken and angry."

Cardiff City supporters Pleace, 30, of Andrew’s Road in Llandaff North, Cardiff, and Richards, 32, of Leckwith Road in Llandough, deny violent disorder.

Villa supporters Baker, 47, of Ashburton Road in Birmingham; Tucker, 51, of Holly Lane in Birmingham, and Clarke, 40, of Winchester Drive in Solihull, also deny the charge.




The trial continues.
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Re: Crown Court Day 3: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby stan106 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:33 am

I wish they'd mention the time - it's crucial as it shows that the Villa fans were hanging around looking to attack the pub rather than just going home
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Re: Crown Court Day 3: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Bananas » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:47 am

Their families of the Brummy scum must be so very very proud of their achievements that day.......
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Re: Crown Court Day 3: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Forever Blue » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:10 am

stan106 wrote:I wish they'd mention the time - it's crucial as it shows that the Villa fans were hanging around looking to attack the pub rather than just going home


Very very crucial the time :thumbright:
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Re: Crown Court Day 3: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby AV3 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:13 am

Forever Blue wrote:
stan106 wrote:I wish they'd mention the time - it's crucial as it shows that the Villa fans were hanging around looking to attack the pub rather than just going home


Very very crucial the time :thumbright:


Why is it?

If the incident had happened at any other time would it have made any difference?
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Re: Crown Court Day 3: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Forever Blue » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:22 am

AV3 wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
stan106 wrote:I wish they'd mention the time - it's crucial as it shows that the Villa fans were hanging around looking to attack the pub rather than just going home


Very very crucial the time :thumbright:


Why is it?

If the incident had happened at any other time would it have made any difference?



7pm, means that 99% of Cardiff fans would have already gone home and for me its outside football time.
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Re: Crown Court Day 3: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby AV3 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:32 am

Forever Blue wrote:
AV3 wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
stan106 wrote:I wish they'd mention the time - it's crucial as it shows that the Villa fans were hanging around looking to attack the pub rather than just going home


Very very crucial the time :thumbright:


Why is it?

If the incident had happened at any other time would it have made any difference?



7pm, means that 99% of Cardiff fans would have already gone home and for me its outside football time.


It’s not crucial though. There could be 101 reasons why they were there at that time. In a criminal court case, you need to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt. You can’t infer things.
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Re: Crown Court Day 3: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Bananas » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:02 am

Villa fans really are scum in general mind. Horrible stadium full of awful smelly scum 'fans'. The stadium always smells of urine .......

Much prefer Birmingham City and their stadium :ayatollah: :old:
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