FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS 5 FOUND GUILTY

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Re: Crown Court Day 3: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:26 pm

AV3 wrote:
I’m not judging anyone, nor am I defending anyone. Can you even read?


I can read very well thanks and during all your postings you have both judged and defended people. Frankly it is delusional to claim otherwise :?
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Re: Crown Court Day 3: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

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Re: Crown Court Day 3: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby AV3 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:53 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
AV3 wrote:
I’m not judging anyone, nor am I defending anyone. Can you even read?


I can read very well thanks and during all your postings you have both judged and defended people. Frankly it is delusional to claim otherwise :?


Of course I haven’t judged anyone you clown. I have simply pointed out the ramifications if you take a row to someone and then rely on self defence as a defence.

Furthermore, simply being present at an incident does not mean a person is guilty and it is wrong to “presume” that he was there as part of a premeditated plan.

It is obvious that you cannot read and I despair at the low intelligence levels displayed on this forum. I hope for all of your sakes it isn’t an indication of the poor standards that exist within the Welsh education system.
The Gift That Keeps on Giving said:
The troll who should not be fed said Grealish would not be leaving for less than £40m and it seems now they cannot wait to cash in (for a lot less)
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Re: Crown Court Day 5:Fan 'saw big man trying to smash bottl

Postby stephendavid » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:02 pm

There he is old AV4 abusing an insulting people once again.....don't take no notice of the fool tone he just got the hump as his joke of a club is falling apart.....ASTON VILLA the club of numpties
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Re: Crown Court Day 5:Fan 'saw big man trying to smash bottl

Postby AV3 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:20 pm

Mind the gap Steven. 3 points already and you’re only 7 games in. :laughing6:
The Gift That Keeps on Giving said:
The troll who should not be fed said Grealish would not be leaving for less than £40m and it seems now they cannot wait to cash in (for a lot less)
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Re: Crown Court Day 5:Fan 'saw big man trying to smash bottl

Postby stephendavid » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:45 pm

AV3 wrote:Mind the gap Steven. 3 points already and you’re only 7 games in. :laughing6:

Owes the tax man millions,sacked your manager,your sides championship cannon fodder,50 odd year old fans in court for fighting an you you alone........ASTON VILLA what an outfit from top to bottom loooooool
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Re: Crown Court Day 5:Fan 'saw big man trying to smash bottl

Postby AV3 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:23 pm

Very good, but.....................
















MIND THE GAP :arrow:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
The Gift That Keeps on Giving said:
The troll who should not be fed said Grealish would not be leaving for less than £40m and it seems now they cannot wait to cash in (for a lot less)
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Re: Crown Court Day 5:Fan 'saw big man trying to smash bottl

Postby stephendavid » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:46 pm

AV3 wrote:Very good, but.....................
















MIND THE GAP :arrow:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Calm down lad.....and enjoy millwall away sat fella
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Re: CROWN COURT DAY 6: CARDIFF/VILL FANS/MANIAC THROWING PUN

Postby Forever Blue » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:19 pm

DAY 6: CARDIFF CROWN COURT CARDIFF / ASTON VILL FANS

Media Wales & Birmingham live news

Wednesday 3rd October 2018


Football fan 'was acting in self-defence' from 'maniac' throwing punches during pub brawl


A football fan accused of being part of a "huge disorder" in a Cardiff pub following a match told a court he felt "angry" as the venue was his "second home".

Five men are on trial following a post-game brawl at The Cornwall pub in Grangetown following the Championship clash between Cardiff City and Aston Villa on August 12 last year.

Cardiff City supporters Nathan Pleace and Vincent Richards, along with Aston Villa supporters Mark Baker, Gary Tucker and Brett Clarke, all deny violent disorder and are on trial at Cardiff Crown Court .

On Wednesday Cardiff City fan Richards, 32, told the jury he was offered a free ticket to the game on the day and arrived at the stadium five minutes before kick off.

He said he drank one pint at half-time but consumed no alcohol before the match.

The court heard how Richards and a friend made their way towards The Cornwall after the game finished. He said he knew the assistant manager Gemma Healey very well and described the pub as as his "second home".

The atmosphere in the pub was described as good by Richards as Cardiff had won 3-0.

CCTV played in court showed Richards at the side entrance as a group of Aston Villa fans arrived at the scene.

He said he heard a noise outside and proceeded to the side to see what was going on.

He said: "To have someone coming to your home and behave like that, you can't accept that behaviour."

The court heard Richards managed to close the side doors and made his way to the main entrance.

He said: "The scene in the doorway made me feel nervous and more angry as it went on.

"You needed to do something to not let it go further, to another level. We needed to help each other and close that door."

The footage showed Richards, of Leckwith Road in Llandough, throwing a plastic glass at someone outside the pub.

The CCTV also showed him kicking out at a man on the floor, which Richard said was because the man grabbed him "by the b*******".

Despite kicking out Richards said he believed he didn't make any contact with the man and instead hit someone else's shin.

Richards said the man on the floor was behaving like a "maniac" and was throwing punches "from the moment he came through the door".

After an exchange of punches between the man on the ground and Richards and others the man who had been on the floor managed to get out of the pub.

He added: "I was trying to stop the man from being aggressive – I had no option in my head.

"I have mates there and there are women – my priority was not to let him back in and behave the way he was around my friends and my family."

When asked what was going through his head at that moment, he said: "Self-defence and to defend whatever is around me."

Prosecutor James Wilson asked Richards why he didn't help close the door instead or phone the police.

Richards replied: "There's not much time to do that and get your phone out. I couldn't say: 'Excuse me mate can you leave the pub?'.

"It doesn't work like that in that situation."


The defendant said he accepted he made a mistake and understood his role in the act.

He added: "Looking back, in hindsight, I knew I shouldn't have done that. I only realised two weeks after that I went too far and for that I apologise."

The court heard Richards handed himself in to the police but gave a no comment interview.





On Tuesday fellow Cardiff fan Pleace, 30, of Andrew's Road in Llandaff North, also gave evidence.

Aston Villa fans Tucker, 51, of Holly Lane in Birmingham and Baker, 47, of Ashburton Road in Birmingham, also gave their evidence.

Clarke, 40, of Winchester Drive in Solihull, chose not to give evidence.

The trial continues.
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Re: Crown Court Day 3: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Dave67 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:56 pm

AV3 wrote:Of course I haven’t judged anyone you clown.


Please tell me you you realise that, in calling him a clown, you are judging him.
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Re: Crown Court Day 3: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby AV3 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:56 am

Dave67 wrote:
AV3 wrote:Of course I haven’t judged anyone you clown.


Please tell me you you realise that, in calling him a clown, you are judging him.


I realise that, in calling him a clown, I am judging him. Happy now?

Now please tell ME that you realise we were referring specifically to the people who have entered NG pleas in the court case.

There are several people who have posted on this thread who have little to no knowledge of the law. Then we have the weapon that is fighting Steven who has little to no knowledge of anything. I have simply pointed out to these people that self defence cannot be claimed if you take a row to the other side. If someone kicks off, it is not carte blanche for you to retaliate. There is a very fine line between defending yourself and joining in. As many have alluded to (myself included), it would take great restraint to hold back in that situation but if you don't, you run the risk of being accused of joining in. Likewise, simply going there does not mean that you are "bang to rights". There must be evidence to show that you have inflicted violence or encouraged/assisted others to do so.
The Gift That Keeps on Giving said:
The troll who should not be fed said Grealish would not be leaving for less than £40m and it seems now they cannot wait to cash in (for a lot less)
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Re: CROWN COURT DAY 6:CARDIFF/VILLA FANS/MANIAC THROWING PUN

Postby goats » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:34 am

Surely it’s obvious that villa fans targeted the pub looking for trouble, not fish and chips, they were the instigators, clearly?
After Stokes got off knocking someone out for self defence reasons, surely these Cardiff fans will get off too defending themselves and others in the pub. Is the law different for international cricket players?
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Re: CROWN COURT DAY 6:CARDIFF/VILLA FANS/MANIAC THROWING PUN

Postby stevee1966 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:49 am

goats wrote: Is the law different for international cricket players?


Probably.
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Re: CROWN COURT DAY 6:CARDIFF/VILLA FANS/MANIAC THROWING PUN

Postby stephendavid » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:42 pm

This is what your dealing with the buffoon that's AV4.....self defence cannot be claimed if you take the row to the other side(the lemons words not mine)well if the villa lads hung around for 2 hours after the game,the villa lads went to said pub then the villa lads attacked the few cardiff fans who were sat quietly having a pint in their local but defended themselves what would you call it AV4 you absolute moron,fair play as sure as night follows day this complete an utter numbskull gets thicker by the day(if thats at all possible)as ive told you lad dont comment on something you know sweet fa about there's a good brummie
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Re: Crown Court Day 3: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:55 pm

AV3 wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
AV3 wrote:
I’m not judging anyone, nor am I defending anyone. Can you even read?


I can read very well thanks and during all your postings you have both judged and defended people. Frankly it is delusional to claim otherwise :?


Of course I haven’t judged anyone you clown. I have simply pointed out the ramifications if you take a row to someone and then rely on self defence as a defence.

Furthermore, simply being present at an incident does not mean a person is guilty and it is wrong to “presume” that he was there as part of a premeditated plan.

It is obvious that you cannot read and I despair at the low intelligence levels displayed on this forum. I hope for all of your sakes it isn’t an indication of the poor standards that exist within the Welsh education system.


Making delusional comments about other people doesn't mean your intelligent or others aren't :roll:

You claimed you haven't judged anyone yet you made a judgement on Annis :banghead:

You claimed you didn't defend anyone but you did exactly that by stating being present at an incident does not mean a person is guilty. Whether that's right or wrong it is a defence of those who were present. :D

The Welsh educational system is obviously a lot better than the one you went through :thumbright:
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Re: CROWN COURT DAY 6:CARDIFF/VILLA FANS/MANIAC THROWING PUN

Postby AV3 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:23 am

stephendavid wrote:This is what your dealing with the buffoon that's AV4.....self defence cannot be claimed if you take the row to the other side(the lemons words not mine)well if the villa lads hung around for 2 hours after the game,the villa lads went to said pub then the villa lads attacked the few cardiff fans who were sat quietly having a pint in their local but defended themselves what would you call it AV4 you absolute moron,fair play as sure as night follows day this complete an utter numbskull gets thicker by the day(if thats at all possible)as ive told you lad dont comment on something you know sweet fa about there's a good brummie


Oh dear Fighting Steven - You were a tad angry yesterday weren't you? I hope that you've calmed down a bit after a good nights sleep and are now able to re-focus on that gap that is forming.

Given I work in law and am currently half way to qualifying as a lawyer, I think it's fair to say that I do know a thing or two. It is not my fault that you have the brains of a duck billed platypus and the reading age of an 8 year old. Now I don't tell you how to serve your Big Mac's, I suggest you don't preach to me about litigation.
The Gift That Keeps on Giving said:
The troll who should not be fed said Grealish would not be leaving for less than £40m and it seems now they cannot wait to cash in (for a lot less)
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Re: Crown Court Day 3: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby AV3 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:29 am

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
AV3 wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
AV3 wrote:
I’m not judging anyone, nor am I defending anyone. Can you even read?


I can read very well thanks and during all your postings you have both judged and defended people. Frankly it is delusional to claim otherwise :?


Of course I haven’t judged anyone you clown. I have simply pointed out the ramifications if you take a row to someone and then rely on self defence as a defence.

Furthermore, simply being present at an incident does not mean a person is guilty and it is wrong to “presume” that he was there as part of a premeditated plan.

It is obvious that you cannot read and I despair at the low intelligence levels displayed on this forum. I hope for all of your sakes it isn’t an indication of the poor standards that exist within the Welsh education system.


Making delusional comments about other people doesn't mean your intelligent or others aren't :roll:

You claimed you haven't judged anyone yet you made a judgement on Annis :banghead:

You claimed you didn't defend anyone but you did exactly that by stating being present at an incident does not mean a person is guilty. Whether that's right or wrong it is a defence of those who were present. :D

The Welsh educational system is obviously a lot better than the one you went through :thumbright:


None of my comments are delusional.

I did not judge Annis - I simply said that he was not displaying common sense. I judged someone by calling them a clown.

I did not defend anyone - I simply stated that being there was not enough on it's own to secure a conviction, regardless of the ASSUMPTIONS that the Villa fans had planned to go there for trouble.

From where I'm sitting, this board does the Welsh educational system no favours whatsoever. Oh and it's "You're intelligent", not "your intelligent".
The Gift That Keeps on Giving said:
The troll who should not be fed said Grealish would not be leaving for less than £40m and it seems now they cannot wait to cash in (for a lot less)
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Re: Crown Court Day 3: Cardiff and Villa fans threw punches

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:25 pm

AV3 wrote:
None of my comments are delusional.

I did not judge Annis - I simply said that he was not displaying common sense. I judged someone by calling them a clown.

I did not defend anyone - I simply stated that being there was not enough on it's own to secure a conviction, regardless of the ASSUMPTIONS that the Villa fans had planned to go there for trouble.

From where I'm sitting, this board does the Welsh educational system no favours whatsoever. Oh and it's "You're intelligent", not "your intelligent".


So stating that Annis was not displaying common sense isn't a judgement? :laughing5:

And you defended the Villa fans when stating being there was not on it's own (enough you missed that out) to secure a conviction. :roll:

You're ability to understand the what constitutes a Judgement and a defence is frankly woeful.

Thank God for the Welsh educational system. :thumbup:
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Re: CROWN COURT DAY 6:CARDIFF/VILLA FANS/MANIAC THROWING PUN

Postby Forever Blue » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:01 pm

DAY 7

Friday 6th October 2018

THE JURY HAVE NOW RETIRED & ALL ACCUSED GRANTED BAIL

Football fans who 'threw punches and launched bottles' in pub brawl guilty of violent disorder


Friday 6th October 2018

The five Cardiff City and Aston Villa supporters denied using or threatening unlawful violence but were convicted by a jury after trial



The five Cardiff City and Aston Villa supporters denied using or threatening unlawful violence but were convicted by a jury after trial

Two Cardiff City fans and three Aston Villa supporters have been found guilty of violent disorder at a pub following the Championship clash last summer.

Bluebirds supporters Nathan Pleace and Vincent Richards, along with Villa supporters Mark Baker, Gary Tucker and Brett Clarke, denied the charge but were convicted by a jury after a trial.

Opening the case at Cardiff Crown Court last week prosecutor James Wilson said: "The incident involved punches, kicks and bottles being thrown."

The court heard the public disorder occurred at The Cornwall pub on the junction between Cornwall Street and Hereford Street in Grangetown on August 12 last year.
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Re: FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS

Postby Forever Blue » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:15 pm

SHARE
ByLiz DayCourts Reporter


5 OCT 2018





Two Cardiff City fans and three Aston Villa supporters have been found guilty of violent disorder at a pub following the Championship clash last summer.

Bluebirds supporters Nathan Pleace and Vincent Richards, along with Villa supporters Mark Baker, Gary Tucker and Brett Clarke, denied the charge but were convicted by a jury after a trial.


Opening the case at Cardiff Crown Court last week prosecutor James Wilson said: "The incident involved punches, kicks and bottles being thrown."

The court heard the public disorder occurred at The Cornwall pub on the junction between Cornwall Street and Hereford Street in Grangetown on August 12 last year.


The Cornwall pub in Grangetown (Image: Google Street View)

Cardiff City and Aston Villa fans 'threw punches and launched bottles' during matchday pub brawl
Prosecutors said a minibus pulled up on Cornwall Street and the Aston Villa group got out and headed towards the pub.

Jemma Healey, assistant manager of The Cornwall, said she heard shouting and saw a group of men approaching looking "riled up".

The disorder was caught on CCTV both inside the pub and on the streets outside.




Post-football match brawl saw 'group of 20' in 'shorts, jeans and hoods' target city pub
Pleace, 30, of Andrew’s Road in Llandaff North, Cardiff, was seen to throw items including a bottle at the rival group and kick a man on the floor.

He accepted throwing a bottle but said he did it to keep the other men back. In his evidence he told the jury he thought his actions were "necessary".

Prosecutors said he had been before the courts for 12 previous offences, including affray, and was made the subject of a football banning order in 2011, with which he subsequently failed to comply.


Football fan 'saw big man trying to smash bottle over someone's head' during post-match pub brawl
Richards, 32, of Leckwith Road in Llandough, was caught on camera gesturing towards the Villa supporters.

He admitted he was at the scene but denied using or threatening unlawful violence. He told the jury he felt "angry" describing the pub as his "second home".

The court heard he had three previous convictions for affray and drug-related offending.


Football fan 'was acting in self-defence' from 'maniac' throwing punches during pub brawl
Baker, 47, of Ashburton Road in Birmingham, was seen throwing an object, which prosecutors alleged was a bottle or a glass.

In his evidence he said the item was not intended to hit anyone.


The court heard he had two previous convictions for possessing cocaine with intent to supply and public disorder.

Judge Neil Bidder QC again advised him to get legal representation, warning him: "You are unquestionably facing a prison sentence."


Gary Tucker (Image: Wales News Service)
Tucker, 51, of Holly Lane in Birmingham, was seen to get off the minibus and throw an object down Hereford Street.

He accepted getting off the minibus at the pub and throwing a plastic cup out of "frustration" in the heat of the moment.

Prosecutors said he had been before the courts for 17 previous offences including affray, assault occasioning actual bodily harm and causing criminal damage.

The court heard Tucker was made the subject of a football banning order in 1996. Judge Bidder described his record as "shocking".



Clarke, 40, of Winchester Drive in Solihull, was seen to run off the minibus before punching and kicking a Bluebirds fan.

He denied it was him on the CCTV. Prosecutors said he had no relevant previous convictions or cautions.

The jury of nine men and three women returned unanimous guilty verdicts. The defendants sighed and shook their heads as the verdicts were delivered.

Judge Bidder said: "Thank you very much, members of the jury. May I thank you for the care you have taken with this case."

The defendants were granted bail until they are sentenced.
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Re: FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS

Postby Jock » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:35 pm

Villa caused all of this, it will be interesting if that’s reflected in the sentencing.
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Re: FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS

Postby scotslad » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:26 pm

It should but I wouldn't hold my breath. The law"s a joke at times.
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Re: FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS

Postby rumpo kid » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:24 pm

It is not my fault that you have the brains of a duck billed platypus and the reading age of an 8 year old.

I understand your an erudite fellow AV3, but with your special powers, surely even you cannot quantify the reading skills of an 8yr old duck-billed platypus.
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Re: FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS

Postby goats » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:22 am

Av3 is training to be a lawyer you know :lol:
Roughly translates to office boy in a law firm.
What ever happened to Aston Villa eh? Closer to league one than the PL these days :roll:
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Re: FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS

Postby stephendavid » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:42 am

AV4 the lemon that just keeps on giving........
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Re: FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS

Postby Forever Blue » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:56 pm

April 2018 there were Sixteen Cardiff City and Aston Villa fans in court over violent clashes
Sixteen people were charged with using or threatening unlawful violence.


Some have had charges dropped, others charges dropped on first day of Court and a few pleaded guilty.

On the final day of Court there were only five Cardiff City and Aston Villa supporters left and all were found guilty by the jury.
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Re: FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS 5 FOUND GUI

Postby stephendavid » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:00 pm

Theres another trial starting for the other lads next week or the week after
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Re: FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS 5 FOUND GUI

Postby Forever Blue » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:35 pm

stephendavid wrote:Theres another trial starting for the other lads next week or the week after


I did get texted that, but I wasn't sure it was true, Cheers, but dam.
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Re: FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS

Postby AV3 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:21 pm

stephendavid wrote:AV4 the lemon that just keeps on giving........


Mind the gap Steven

Kind regards

The lemon that just keeps on giving
The Gift That Keeps on Giving said:
The troll who should not be fed said Grealish would not be leaving for less than £40m and it seems now they cannot wait to cash in (for a lot less)
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Re: FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS 5 FOUND GUI

Postby goats » Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:18 pm

What’s this gap guff? Give me our place rather than looking at league 1 anyway.
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Re: FINAL DAY: CROWN COURT CARDIFF / VILLA FANS 5 FOUND GUI

Postby AV3 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:23 pm

Ask Steven.

He’s been banging on about gaps for the past 6 months like a parrot.

I think he has an obsession with them.
The Gift That Keeps on Giving said:
The troll who should not be fed said Grealish would not be leaving for less than £40m and it seems now they cannot wait to cash in (for a lot less)
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