Warnock borrowed time

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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Walinoz » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:33 am

psw78 wrote:Talk of Warnock going is absurd - remember where we were two years ago both on and off the field.

Anybody that expected anything other than a relegation fight this season needs to manage their expectations - we’ve had a crazily difficult start playing the current top 6 in our first 8 games, with 5 of those being the ‘traditional big 6’.

Whilst we haven’t got the results, the performances for the most part have been decent - I’ve seen enough to believe that if we can keep the level of performance, become a bit more clinical and get a bit of luck we can start turning those performances into points and wins.

Did we under invest in the summer? Depends what the strategy was. Had Warnock got everything right - absolutely not. However we are where we are with the squad and I can’t think of a single manager (who would come to us) who would do a better job of getting players to perform above their level and on that basis he gives us the best chance of staying up - and if we do go down, he is surely the best person to bring us back up - this time with more quality at his disposal.


Spot on as well
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby psw78 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:37 am

Kingyccfc wrote:
psw78 wrote:Talk of Warnock going is absurd - remember where we were two years ago both on and off the field.

Anybody that expected anything other than a relegation fight this season needs to manage their expectations - we’ve had a crazily difficult start playing the current top 6 in our first 8 games, with 5 of those being the ‘traditional big 6’.

Whilst we haven’t got the results, the performances for the most part have been decent - I’ve seen enough to believe that if we can keep the level of performance, become a bit more clinical and get a bit of luck we can start turning those performances into points and wins.

Did we under invest in the summer? Depends what the strategy was. Had Warnock got everything right - absolutely not. However we are where we are with the squad and I can’t think of a single manager (who would come to us) who would do a better job of getting players to perform above their level and on that basis he gives us the best chance of staying up - and if we do go down, he is surely the best person to bring us back up - this time with more quality at his disposal.


.

I didn't expect anything other than a relegation fight this season. I'm just saying I believe Tan doesn't rate Warnock at this level. He has not given him a chance. I would love it if Warnock achieved safety, but we all know it ain't gonna happen. All this talk of bouncing back like Burnley and what Wba used to do is not really a strong plan. We need to be strong now whilst we are here not next year and not come back for years.


Like I said it depends on the strategy they set when planning so we don’t know Tan hasn’t backed Warnock - he might have fully backed him against the plan that they agreed on. Warnock has openly said they expected to get a player for £6m and he went to Bournemouth for £25m.

My thought is that they looked at what it would cost to ‘guarantee saftey’, realised it would have taken an insane amount of cash (surely in excess of £150m) and then took the long term view to build rather than gamble - with the hope that we might stay up, but the expectation that if we don’t we are setting the club on a much sounder financial footing from which to build...they have often referred to the Burnley model as the yard stick.
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby City Slicker » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:26 am

Mr Shed wrote:Vincent Tan would be a fool to get rid of Warnock. The best manager this club has had in decades. Whatever happens this season, there is a much better atmosphere around the club now. There is no one that fits this club and what it stands for than Neil Warnock.
We'll be lucky to stay up, but im ok with that. We win either way.
Stay up, we strengthen and aim higher next season.
Go down, we are financially better off and have a crackin championship squad.


Absolutely right. Tan is having a boost to his bank balance and Premier League status on the cheap. It's highly unlikely any credible manager other than Warnock would have accepted the constraints but because of Warnock's circumstances and stage in life Tan struck lucky. Warnock is a legend at this club and in the unlikely event he will be with us next season I can think of no better manager conducive to Championship success.
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Sven » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:40 am

Kingyccfc wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Kingyccfc wrote:Tan didn’t trust Warnock with his money. A higher profile manager would of had double the amount, that is in no doubt in my opinion.


And in my opinion your talking bollox.A higher profile manager be fucked that will want alot more money with no guarantees yes I can see them queing up now.Your opinion is based on hearsay bullshite as you don't know what Tan is thinking.[/

Why do you think he didn't give him much to spend? He doesn't rate him or trust his top flight experience. The guy is loaded and he could of easily given more. Tan has already put the wheels in motion for Warnock's departure. It's obvious to see Tan doesn't rate good old Neil. He knows he has made a mistake here and should of said thank you as soon as warnock said he doesn't like the premier League. He knows his limitations as a manager and right now he's proving it.



Are you for real? :o :shock: :?

You state the above like it's irrefutable fact but it simply isn't! You don't know any more than most other people on this forum and/or outside the inner sanctum of the club itself!

Using profanity and (weakly) attempting to 'bully' others into accepting your fractured views (that's all they are) has made you look a bit daft, tbh!

Your contradictory tone is emphasised in your next post (quote) "I'm just saying I believe Tan doesn't rate Warnock at this level" where you clearly state you don't factually know...!

We all have opinions and won't always agree; but peddling your 'opinions' as 'fact' does you no credit! :oops:
"If only closed minds came with closed mouths!"
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:53 am

dogfound wrote:

I have never understood this..
if you turned up tomorrow with an acceptable offer lets say 100 mill you believe the debts would remain.?
I don't because they are not third party debts


It would depend on the Terms and Conditions of the Sale. If the club was sold as a going concern then yes the new owners would become liable for the debts, like Tan was for Langston.

Another scenario is the new owners could insist before buying that the debts were settled or the asking price was reduced by the amount of debt
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Kingyccfc » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:22 am

Sven wrote:
Kingyccfc wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Kingyccfc wrote:Tan didn’t trust Warnock with his money. A higher profile manager would of had double the amount, that is in no doubt in my opinion.


And in my opinion your talking bollox.A higher profile manager be fucked that will want alot more money with no guarantees yes I can see them queing up now.Your opinion is based on hearsay bullshite as you don't know what Tan is thinking.[/

Why do you think he didn't give him much to spend? He doesn't rate him or trust his top flight experience. The guy is loaded and he could of easily given more. Tan has already put the wheels in motion for Warnock's departure. It's obvious to see Tan doesn't rate good old Neil. He knows he has made a mistake here and should of said thank you as soon as warnock said he doesn't like the premier League. He knows his limitations as a manager and right now he's proving it.



Are you for real? :o :shock: :?

You state the above like it's irrefutable fact but it simply isn't! You don't know any more than most other people on this forum and/or outside the inner sanctum of the club itself!

Using profanity and (weakly) attempting to 'bully' others into accepting your fractured views (that's all they are) has made you look a bit daft, tbh!

Your contradictory tone is emphasised in your next post (quote) "I'm just saying I believe Tan doesn't rate Warnock at this level" where you clearly state you don't factually know...!

We all have opinions and won't always agree; but peddling your 'opinions' as 'fact' does you no credit! :oops:


The number one fact is we are rock bottom of the league and no where near strong enough. Why is that?
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Steve Zodiak » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:31 am

Kingyccfc wrote:
Sven wrote:
Kingyccfc wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Kingyccfc wrote:Tan didn’t trust Warnock with his money. A higher profile manager would of had double the amount, that is in no doubt in my opinion.


And in my opinion your talking bollox.A higher profile manager be fucked that will want alot more money with no guarantees yes I can see them queing up now.Your opinion is based on hearsay bullshite as you don't know what Tan is thinking.[/

Why do you think he didn't give him much to spend? He doesn't rate him or trust his top flight experience. The guy is loaded and he could of easily given more. Tan has already put the wheels in motion for Warnock's departure. It's obvious to see Tan doesn't rate good old Neil. He knows he has made a mistake here and should of said thank you as soon as warnock said he doesn't like the premier League. He knows his limitations as a manager and right now he's proving it.



Are you for real? :o :shock: :?

You state the above like it's irrefutable fact but it simply isn't! You don't know any more than most other people on this forum and/or outside the inner sanctum of the club itself!

Using profanity and (weakly) attempting to 'bully' others into accepting your fractured views (that's all they are) has made you look a bit daft, tbh!

Your contradictory tone is emphasised in your next post (quote) "I'm just saying I believe Tan doesn't rate Warnock at this level" where you clearly state you don't factually know...!

We all have opinions and won't always agree; but peddling your 'opinions' as 'fact' does you no credit! :oops:


The number one fact is we are rock bottom of the league and no where near strong enough. Why is that?


Well, you must be far closer to Tan than us ordinary fans, or even Warnock for that matter. I presume Tan has told you personally that he does'nt rate Warnock and that he is planning on removing him. Either that or as already stated previously you are talking a load of bollox.
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Sven » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:01 pm

Kingyccfc wrote:
Sven wrote:
Kingyccfc wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Kingyccfc wrote:Tan didn’t trust Warnock with his money. A higher profile manager would of had double the amount, that is in no doubt in my opinion.


And in my opinion your talking bollox.A higher profile manager be fucked that will want alot more money with no guarantees yes I can see them queing up now.Your opinion is based on hearsay bullshite as you don't know what Tan is thinking.[/

Why do you think he didn't give him much to spend? He doesn't rate him or trust his top flight experience. The guy is loaded and he could of easily given more. Tan has already put the wheels in motion for Warnock's departure. It's obvious to see Tan doesn't rate good old Neil. He knows he has made a mistake here and should of said thank you as soon as warnock said he doesn't like the premier League. He knows his limitations as a manager and right now he's proving it.



Are you for real? :o :shock: :?

You state the above like it's irrefutable fact but it simply isn't! You don't know any more than most other people on this forum and/or outside the inner sanctum of the club itself!

Using profanity and (weakly) attempting to 'bully' others into accepting your fractured views (that's all they are) has made you look a bit daft, tbh!

Your contradictory tone is emphasised in your next post (quote) "I'm just saying I believe Tan doesn't rate Warnock at this level" where you clearly state you don't factually know...!

We all have opinions and won't always agree; but peddling your 'opinions' as 'fact' does you no credit! :oops:


The number one fact is we are rock bottom of the league and no where near strong enough. Why is that?


That is a fact...but wasn't my point and you know it! :thumbright:
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Kingyccfc » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:33 pm

Sven wrote:
Kingyccfc wrote:
Sven wrote:
Kingyccfc wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Kingyccfc wrote:Tan didn’t trust Warnock with his money. A higher profile manager would of had double the amount, that is in no doubt in my opinion.


And in my opinion your talking bollox.A higher profile manager be fucked that will want alot more money with no guarantees yes I can see them queing up now.Your opinion is based on hearsay bullshite as you don't know what Tan is thinking.[/

Why do you think he didn't give him much to spend? He doesn't rate him or trust his top flight experience. The guy is loaded and he could of easily given more. Tan has already put the wheels in motion for Warnock's departure. It's obvious to see Tan doesn't rate good old Neil. He knows he has made a mistake here and should of said thank you as soon as warnock said he doesn't like the premier League. He knows his limitations as a manager and right now he's proving it.



Are you for real? :o :shock: :?

You state the above like it's irrefutable fact but it simply isn't! You don't know any more than most other people on this forum and/or outside the inner sanctum of the club itself!

Using profanity and (weakly) attempting to 'bully' others into accepting your fractured views (that's all they are) has made you look a bit daft, tbh!

Your contradictory tone is emphasised in your next post (quote) "I'm just saying I believe Tan doesn't rate Warnock at this level" where you clearly state you don't factually know...!

We all have opinions and won't always agree; but peddling your 'opinions' as 'fact' does you no credit! :oops:


The number one fact is we are rock bottom of the league and no where near strong enough. Why is that?


That is a fact...but wasn't my point and you know it! :thumbright:


Tan could easily back Warnock more. If we manage to win a game this side of December then this board will go crazy in honour of sir Neil.
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby dogfound » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:17 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
dogfound wrote:

I have never understood this..
if you turned up tomorrow with an acceptable offer lets say 100 mill you believe the debts would remain.?
I don't because they are not third party debts


It would depend on the Terms and Conditions of the Sale. If the club was sold as a going concern then yes the new owners would become liable for the debts, like Tan was for Langston.

Another scenario is the new owners could insist before buying that the debts were settled or the asking price was reduced by the amount of debt



that's my point really...a buyer could agree with Tan to buy for a hypothetical figure plus pay the debt back over a period..
or {assuming the club was this mythical debt free } agree a figure to purchase with Tan paid over a length of time which would instantly put the club back in debt...
same thing as far as us fans are concerned..

langston well was it Sam.?..or Sam and others ..?..it was certainly something Tan inherited and had to deal with as opposed to being part of the initial agreement..and was a 3rd party debt unlike the money owed to VT who doesnt seem to have hidden loans in an off shore lender..

honestly dont see anyone buying this football club owing tens of millions from day1 to the previous owner..

and dont see Tan ,now experienced in the volatility of football finance believing he can go down that road selling either..

it will be one amount.and the next owner might be frugal or might behave like a child in a sweetshop overspending from day 1...so debt free today doesnt mean debt free tomorrow or for any length of time..
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Nuclearblue » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:33 pm

Fook me a clueless post. No manager with this squad would turn them into a mid table team. Look if it wasn’t for Warnock brilliance last season any other manager would of got us mid table.
Any new manager would have to break up this squad and start again. If we go down Warnock would improve this squad and he would be the one to get us back up and we would be more prepared then. For this we need Warnock to stay. What we going to do get another OGS ?
Look we are a post turtle what’s that I hear you ask ?
Well you are driving down a country lane and you see a turtle on a post and you would think what’s he doing up there ?
The Turtle ain’t got a clue how he got up there. And now he is up there he hasn’t a clue what to do next, but he does know sooner rather than later he will fall off.
Just enjoy the ride this Season and stop bitching about Warnock. You are clearly in the minority.
In Warnock we trust :D :bluebird:
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Kingyccfc » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:24 am

Nuclearblue wrote:Fook me a clueless post. No manager with this squad would turn them into a mid table team. Look if it wasn’t for Warnock brilliance last season any other manager would of got us mid table.
Any new manager would have to break up this squad and start again. If we go down Warnock would improve this squad and he would be the one to get us back up and we would be more prepared then. For this we need Warnock to stay. What we going to do get another OGS ?
Look we are a post turtle what’s that I hear you ask ?
Well you are driving down a country lane and you see a turtle on a post and you would think what’s he doing up there ?
The Turtle ain’t got a clue how he got up there. And now he is up there he hasn’t a clue what to do next, but he does know sooner rather than later he will fall off.
Just enjoy the ride this Season and stop bitching about Warnock. You are clearly in the minority.
In Warnock we trust :D :bluebird:


You just don’t get it do you? Why do you think he has 8 promotions?
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby T1JMO » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:45 am

I think you're wrong, I don't even think he is at risk at the moment.
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby ReesWestonSuperMare » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:20 am

I dont see any other manager doing any better with the players we have.
The money invested has been spent, we cant spend anymore till January.
From all the performances Ive seen - our spirit, tactics, concentration have all been 100% - and there have been no players switching off.

SO - dont sack the manager - as it wont make any difference - other than to disrupt team spirit. We got promoted as a team, we are here as a team and we all fight for and support the club.

It's plainly obvious we are short up front , and will rely on set piece goals etc.

I know it's corny - but we need to keep the faith, treat every game like a cup final and see where we are in Jan.
Neil is right though - ignore the top6 it's the bottom 12 or clubs that make up the league we are in. When I look around and see very small clubs like Burnley, Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Fulham etc and see how others are struggling like Newcastle - then we have more than a fighting chance. But split the manage / coaches / players and that will make it worse - much worse in my opinion.
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Hopski » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:38 am

I hope Neil and VT do not visit this forum or they would walk away from the club. Neil and Vinnie are the best thing to happen to this club after The Riddler and Sam.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Kingyccfc » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:49 am

Promotion specialists won’t keep us in this division. My comments could look harsh or even rubbish to others,but as soon as Warnock said he didn’t like managing in the top flight then I knew he wasn’t the right person for the job.

No I don’t know what the owner thinks.
No I don’t know what the board thinks
No I don’t know what the players think.

What I do know is we are rock bottom of the league and on course for a really low points total.
Warnock is an honest and decent guy. He has done an excellent job getting us up, but just like players get released when deemed unsuitable for promotion, then what should prevent managers being put under such scrutiny also.

I believe blind loyalty to managers Is a way of creating acceptance for failure.
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby bluemun » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:39 pm

Warnock failed to sign a striker when it was patently obvious we needed one. He persisted with retaining Madine because he had signed him. He's done an absolutely fantastic job keeping us up then taking us up, but sadly the time has come. If we don't change things then the January window will be pointless anyway.
Our style is completely unsuited to the Premier league. To get the best out of our players, especially Camarasa, Murphy and Reid, that has to change.
We're bottom and have the worst start to a season for 50 years. With a worse team, Malky did better.
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby psw78 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:42 pm

bluemun wrote:Warnock failed to sign a striker when it was patently obvious we needed one. He persisted with retaining Madine because he had signed him. He's done an absolutely fantastic job keeping us up then taking us up, but sadly the time has come. If we don't change things then the January window will be pointless anyway.
Our style is completely unsuited to the Premier league. To get the best out of our players, especially Camarasa, Murphy and Reid, that has to change.
We're bottom and have the worst start to a season for 50 years. With a worse team, Malky did better.


Why is our style unsuited? Teams like Stoke survived for years playing an even more direct game and arguably we were far less of a footballing side last time we were here - what style should we be playing given the players that we have?

I agree that it is a huge failure that the club didn’t sort the striker positions out - too much faith has been put in Ken, but less than 2 seasons ago, people wouldn’t have sold him for less than £10m. I think most would now say £5m would now be a great price for us to get.

As I said in a previous post, the start we’ve had has been brutal - we’ve played the current top 6 teams and 5 of those are the ‘traditional big 6’. We had 5 points after 8 games last time, but we had only played 3 of the big 6 - Chelsea, Spurs and Man City- and two of the teams that went down with us (might prove to be the case again).

Warnock was the right man at the start of the season and he remains so - except for a couple of games, we’ve been in every one. My hope is that the players keep their heads up and start to see some rewards for the performances in more ‘winnable’ games between now and Christmas - and if there is one person that can have this group believing in themselves it is Warnock.
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby dogfound » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:07 pm

Kingyccfc wrote:Promotion specialists won’t keep us in this division. My comments could look harsh or even rubbish to others,but as soon as Warnock said he didn’t like managing in the top flight then I knew he wasn’t the right person for the job.

No I don’t know what the owner thinks.
No I don’t know what the board thinks
No I don’t know what the players think.

What I do know is we are rock bottom of the league and on course for a really low points total.
Warnock is an honest and decent guy. He has done an excellent job getting us up, but just like players get released when deemed unsuitable for promotion, then what should prevent managers being put under such scrutiny also.

I believe blind loyalty to managers Is a way of creating acceptance for failure.



i have questions too..and do not think loyalty should be blind either..
but im also realistic , had we employed big sam/moyes/pardew at start of summer,spent the same..bookies and pundits would still have predicted Cardiff City 20th..
as for the rather concerning remark at the begining of your post { i also thought it at the time }..3things..
1st....he played promotion down from start to finish last season..maybe to much..but this doesnt like the prem was probably just part of that..
2nd..nobody was in a better position to make sure we just miss out ..
3rd..if he really doesn't like it why not just say job done and move on citing the prem is not for him and wanting a 9th promotion..
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Kingyccfc » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:10 pm

psw78 wrote:
bluemun wrote:Warnock failed to sign a striker when it was patently obvious we needed one. He persisted with retaining Madine because he had signed him. He's done an absolutely fantastic job keeping us up then taking us up, but sadly the time has come. If we don't change things then the January window will be pointless anyway.
Our style is completely unsuited to the Premier league. To get the best out of our players, especially Camarasa, Murphy and Reid, that has to change.
We're bottom and have the worst start to a season for 50 years. With a worse team, Malky did better.


Why is our style unsuited? Teams like Stoke survived for years playing an even more direct game and arguably we were far less of a footballing side last time we were here - what style should we be playing given the players that we have?

I agree that it is a huge failure that the club didn’t sort the striker positions out - too much faith has been put in Ken, but less than 2 seasons ago, people wouldn’t have sold him for less than £10m. I think most would now say £5m would now be a great price for us to get.

As I said in a previous post, the start we’ve had has been brutal - we’ve played the current top 6 teams and 5 of those are the ‘traditional big 6’. We had 5 points after 8 games last time, but we had only played 3 of the big 6 - Chelsea, Spurs and Man City- and two of the teams that went down with us (might prove to be the case again).

Warnock was the right man at the start of the season and he remains so - except for a couple of games, we’ve been in every one. My hope is that the players keep their heads up and start to see some rewards for the performances in more ‘winnable’ games between now and Christmas - and if there is one person that can have this group believing in themselves it is Warnock.


Warnock was not the right man at the start. He knows his level and it’s the one below. He has admitted this. The board has made a mistake in retaining his services. Poor signings,poor style of play and poor results. They are just as culpable as him. Naive and no ambition. Shambles
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Kingyccfc » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:58 pm

dogfound wrote:
Kingyccfc wrote:Promotion specialists won’t keep us in this division. My comments could look harsh or even rubbish to others,but as soon as Warnock said he didn’t like managing in the top flight then I knew he wasn’t the right person for the job.

No I don’t know what the owner thinks.
No I don’t know what the board thinks
No I don’t know what the players think.

What I do know is we are rock bottom of the league and on course for a really low points total.
Warnock is an honest and decent guy. He has done an excellent job getting us up, but just like players get released when deemed unsuitable for promotion, then what should prevent managers being put under such scrutiny also.

I believe blind loyalty to managers Is a way of creating acceptance for failure.



i have questions too..and do not think loyalty should be blind either..
but im also realistic , had we employed big sam/moyes/pardew at start of summer,spent the same..bookies and pundits would still have predicted Cardiff City 20th..
as for the rather concerning remark at the begining of your post { i also thought it at the time }..3things..
1st....he played promotion down from start to finish last season..maybe to much..but this doesnt like the prem was probably just part of that..
2nd..nobody was in a better position to make sure we just miss out ..
3rd..if he really doesn't like it why not just say job done and move on citing the prem is not for him and wanting a 9th promotion..


Good post that mate. I believe if we had taken one of the above managers the board would of sanctioned more funds.
Regarding the playing it down thing that’s an experienced managers way of deflecting pressure.
I think he messed up big time with the premier league quote. It sends the wrong signals out for me. Who wants to see that whilst we were on the verge of promotion.
As for him coming up with us that’s the tough one. Does the club back him or sack him, £28 million is not good backing.
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby montyblue » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:23 pm

NUCLEARBLUE
you don' t see many turtles down country lanes here, maybe a lost tortoise,there both the same i suppose both slow, bit like our 2 strikers Kenneth and gary but i' ll keep an eye out all the same
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby bluesince62 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:20 pm

psw78 wrote:
Kingyccfc wrote:
psw78 wrote:Talk of Warnock going is absurd - remember where we were two years ago both on and off the field.

Anybody that expected anything other than a relegation fight this season needs to manage their expectations - we’ve had a crazily difficult start playing the current top 6 in our first 8 games, with 5 of those being the ‘traditional big 6’.

Whilst we haven’t got the results, the performances for the most part have been decent - I’ve seen enough to believe that if we can keep the level of performance, become a bit more clinical and get a bit of luck we can start turning those performances into points and wins.

Did we under invest in the summer? Depends what the strategy was. Had Warnock got everything right - absolutely not. However we are where we are with the squad and I can’t think of a single manager (who would come to us) who would do a better job of getting players to perform above their level and on that basis he gives us the best chance of staying up - and if we do go down, he is surely the best person to bring us back up - this time with more quality at his disposal.


.

I didn't expect anything other than a relegation fight this season. I'm just saying I believe Tan doesn't rate Warnock at this level. He has not given him a chance. I would love it if Warnock achieved safety, but we all know it ain't gonna happen. All this talk of bouncing back like Burnley and what Wba used to do is not really a strong plan. We need to be strong now whilst we are here not next year and not come back for years.


Like I said it depends on the strategy they set when planning so we don’t know Tan hasn’t backed Warnock - he might have fully backed him against the plan that they agreed on. Warnock has openly said they expected to get a player for £6m and he went to Bournemouth for £25m.

My thought is that they looked at what it would cost to ‘guarantee saftey’, realised it would have taken an insane amount of cash (surely in excess of £150m) and then took the long term view to build rather than gamble - with the hope that we might stay up, but the expectation that if we don’t we are setting the club on a much sounder financial footing from which to build...they have often referred to the Burnley model as the yard stick.

Trouble is there are no guarantees in spending huge amounts and that will lead to guaranteed survival?? Would much rather go the way that looks like putting us on a much better footing (financially ) but do fear getting back up,IF we get relagated, it's a tougher division in my opinion,than the Prem! Look at villa for instance,if they fail to get promoted this year,they will find it will cost them big time :sad7: but good post mate.
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby NyeBluebird » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:13 pm

We do not have an abundance of income, and there's only so much Tan can provide to the club under FFP regulations.

Think people need to realise we're not a big club. When we're in our 'rightful' place of the Championship we get crowds similar to that of Ipswich, who've been in the second tier for 19 of the previous 21 seasons.

Just enjoy watching the elite players come to Cardiff without our club's future being gambled with, or we could end up being the next Portsmouth.
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Kingyccfc » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:27 pm

NyeBluebird wrote:We do not have an abundance of income, and there's only so much Tan can provide to the club under FFP regulations.

Think people need to realise we're not a big club. When we're in our 'rightful' place of the Championship we get crowds similar to that of Ipswich, who've been in the second tier for 19 of the previous 21 seasons.

Just enjoy watching the elite players come to Cardiff without our club's future being gambled with, or we could end up being the next Portsmouth.


I don’t believe ffp would prevent us being more ambitious this season. The revenue received in the Pl dwarves the Efl. As for enjoying the elite players come down here no offence mate but f**k em. They want to hurt my team so I say send em packing with their elitist attitudes.
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Hoppo67 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:01 pm

Neil Warnock done a great job last season, but seeing our signings in the summer, I was really worried about the season ahead in the premiership.. Only after and holiest have premiership experience,we signed some Spanish bloke and the rest were championship players. We got a squad of players that are suited for the championshin,not the premiership. In my view warnock has taken us as far as he can, city should go for Sam alladyce ,give him a contract until the end of the season. I believe he would at least give us a chance of staying up.
Chee
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby dogfound » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:37 pm

psw78 wrote:
Kingyccfc wrote:
psw78 wrote:Talk of Warnock going is absurd - remember where we were two years ago both on and off the field.

Anybody that expected anything other than a relegation fight this season needs to manage their expectations - we’ve had a crazily difficult start playing the current top 6 in our first 8 games, with 5 of those being the ‘traditional big 6’.

Whilst we haven’t got the results, the performances for the most part have been decent - I’ve seen enough to believe that if we can keep the level of performance, become a bit more clinical and get a bit of luck we can start turning those performances into points and wins.

Did we under invest in the summer? Depends what the strategy was. Had Warnock got everything right - absolutely not. However we are where we are with the squad and I can’t think of a single manager (who would come to us) who would do a better job of getting players to perform above their level and on that basis he gives us the best chance of staying up - and if we do go down, he is surely the best person to bring us back up - this time with more quality at his disposal.


.

I didn't expect anything other than a relegation fight this season. I'm just saying I believe Tan doesn't rate Warnock at this level. He has not given him a chance. I would love it if Warnock achieved safety, but we all know it ain't gonna happen. All this talk of bouncing back like Burnley and what Wba used to do is not really a strong plan. We need to be strong now whilst we are here not next year and not come back for years.


Like I said it depends on the strategy they set when planning so we don’t know Tan hasn’t backed Warnock - he might have fully backed him against the plan that they agreed on. Warnock has openly said they expected to get a player for £6m and he went to Bournemouth for £25m.

My thought is that they looked at what it would cost to ‘guarantee saftey’, realised it would have taken an insane amount of cash (surely in excess of £150m) and then took the long term view to build rather than gamble - with the hope that we might stay up, but the expectation that if we don’t we are setting the club on a much sounder financial footing from which to build...they have often referred to the Burnley model as the yard stick.



reality is there is no figure that guarantees safety but your in excess of 150 mill is much more reasonable than anything else ive read on here
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby Kingyccfc » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:07 pm

dogfound wrote:
psw78 wrote:
Kingyccfc wrote:
psw78 wrote:Talk of Warnock going is absurd - remember where we were two years ago both on and off the field.

Anybody that expected anything other than a relegation fight this season needs to manage their expectations - we’ve had a crazily difficult start playing the current top 6 in our first 8 games, with 5 of those being the ‘traditional big 6’.

Whilst we haven’t got the results, the performances for the most part have been decent - I’ve seen enough to believe that if we can keep the level of performance, become a bit more clinical and get a bit of luck we can start turning those performances into points and wins.

Did we under invest in the summer? Depends what the strategy was. Had Warnock got everything right - absolutely not. However we are where we are with the squad and I can’t think of a single manager (who would come to us) who would do a better job of getting players to perform above their level and on that basis he gives us the best chance of staying up - and if we do go down, he is surely the best person to bring us back up - this time with more quality at his disposal.


.

I didn't expect anything other than a relegation fight this season. I'm just saying I believe Tan doesn't rate Warnock at this level. He has not given him a chance. I would love it if Warnock achieved safety, but we all know it ain't gonna happen. All this talk of bouncing back like Burnley and what Wba used to do is not really a strong plan. We need to be strong now whilst we are here not next year and not come back for years.


Like I said it depends on the strategy they set when planning so we don’t know Tan hasn’t backed Warnock - he might have fully backed him against the plan that they agreed on. Warnock has openly said they expected to get a player for £6m and he went to Bournemouth for £25m.

My thought is that they looked at what it would cost to ‘guarantee saftey’, realised it would have taken an insane amount of cash (surely in excess of £150m) and then took the long term view to build rather than gamble - with the hope that we might stay up, but the expectation that if we don’t we are setting the club on a much sounder financial footing from which to build...they have often referred to the Burnley model as the yard stick.



reality is there is no figure that guarantees safety but your in excess of 150 mill is much more reasonable than anything else ive read on here


So do we agree that £28 million is nowhere near enough for strengthening?
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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby DandoCCFC » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:14 pm

I come to the conclusion we should stick with Warnock until the end of this season.. but not to do with what he has done in the previous 2 years I don't know why and I don't think it should play a factor with him staying here that was then and this is now, we can't live in the past. It's more with the fact he has made this club stable and exceeded expectations here and I think we should give him until the end of the season and if we do get relegated then maybe get rid of him so that way a new manager can come in and have time to settle in with a pre season.

The players give 100% for Warnock, the fans, the club so Warnock still has the dressing room in focus and in his favour which is good but you can't argue with the OP too much because Warnock does warrant criticism and we can't play on this 'Oh look where we was 2 years ago' card to get him out of jail, he's entitled to criticism as much as anyone else.
I will.
And before anyone els gets in there no im not an ideot abroad

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Re: Warnock borrowed time

Postby City Slicker » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:29 pm

Kingyccfc wrote:
dogfound wrote:
psw78 wrote:
Kingyccfc wrote:
psw78 wrote:Talk of Warnock going is absurd - remember where we were two years ago both on and off the field.

Anybody that expected anything other than a relegation fight this season needs to manage their expectations - we’ve had a crazily difficult start playing the current top 6 in our first 8 games, with 5 of those being the ‘traditional big 6’.

Whilst we haven’t got the results, the performances for the most part have been decent - I’ve seen enough to believe that if we can keep the level of performance, become a bit more clinical and get a bit of luck we can start turning those performances into points and wins.

Did we under invest in the summer? Depends what the strategy was. Had Warnock got everything right - absolutely not. However we are where we are with the squad and I can’t think of a single manager (who would come to us) who would do a better job of getting players to perform above their level and on that basis he gives us the best chance of staying up - and if we do go down, he is surely the best person to bring us back up - this time with more quality at his disposal.


.

I didn't expect anything other than a relegation fight this season. I'm just saying I believe Tan doesn't rate Warnock at this level. He has not given him a chance. I would love it if Warnock achieved safety, but we all know it ain't gonna happen. All this talk of bouncing back like Burnley and what Wba used to do is not really a strong plan. We need to be strong now whilst we are here not next year and not come back for years.


Like I said it depends on the strategy they set when planning so we don’t know Tan hasn’t backed Warnock - he might have fully backed him against the plan that they agreed on. Warnock has openly said they expected to get a player for £6m and he went to Bournemouth for £25m.

My thought is that they looked at what it would cost to ‘guarantee saftey’, realised it would have taken an insane amount of cash (surely in excess of £150m) and then took the long term view to build rather than gamble - with the hope that we might stay up, but the expectation that if we don’t we are setting the club on a much sounder financial footing from which to build...they have often referred to the Burnley model as the yard stick.



reality is there is no figure that guarantees safety but your in excess of 150 mill is much more reasonable than anything else ive read on here


So do we agree that £28 million is nowhere near enough for strengthening?


Not even close when we started from a low base and anyway what happened to the £150-200m reward money for gaining promotion? I don't blame poor old Warnock one jot. His credit in these parts is unequalled.
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