“ Pretending to enjoy these defeats “

From Fb

Chris Walters:

Warnock is great championship manager but his coaching tactical and recruitment ideas may be why he has never cut it at this level..best manager we've had.

But we are premier league now and require premier league people in all positions at the club..

if we want to succeed here .we have to stop being grateful for being here ...this is not a bonus season it is an opportunity ..let's compete instead of pretending to enjoy these defeats..because the fans will desert us if we fail..and we need all fans new and old..

A lot of truth in the above post

Back in the Championship with 16,000 crowds and sometimes barely 12,000 turning up.

Your also not guaranteed to go straight back up.

Not a win in 9 matches and worst start for 50 years, fans will get fed up and crowds will disappear fast in the long run.

We needed a top quality striker and the money to get one.

I honestly believe Warnocks budget was way to small, I agree with much what Chris says, but pointless sacking Warnock, with this squad he is the best you will get, what I agree with us, we can’t afford to get relegated.

And we needed far better players from day one, with a bigger budget.


You could say we are not far off other clubs, but putting a string of good results together is very very hard in the Premier League, you have to have the quality to turn the games.


Stand by Warnock, but he needs a big budget come this January

A lot of truth in the above post

I think Warnock will walk rather than get sacked if things don;t improve before Christmas. If that is the case, I would like us to find a role upstairs for him

He needs support , perhaps another fresh set of eyes.
It should be his choice as well.
Somehow I don’t think he will accept this compromise.
He really should have been given more of a budget to give him a fighting chance.
If the defeats keep coming we should not underestimate the fallout to the current players.
Would be so easy to fall straight through as per Sunderland.

Like who then

Sexy names like Henry and Terry is it it . Straight back down even if we change managers and then those 2 avove will walk if relegated. Around in circles we go.

Tony Pulis
Big Sam
Moyes
Bilic

I completely disagree. It's not the defeats i am enjoying. Its the games. If you have been watching every game from the start of this season, you would see we are slowly growing into this league and we are definitely competing (man city aside). I think too many teams have suffered in the past when a manager has been binned too early. Then being replaced by expensive masters of relegation avoidance. We will start getting results as i have seen the team improve steadily on the pitch.
Leicester in their first season in the prem were destined for the drop but they went on a winning run of games at the end of the season that pulled them out of it. Would they have had the same run if the powers that be sacked the manager?
During that summer they did release their manager and brought ranieri in and won the league.

A knee jerk reaction changing the manager now would have one of 2 effects. Either it would seal our fate for the drop or put us on an un entertaining allardyce/pulis style defensive crap football that'll get us just about avoiding the drop every year.
I like what is happening at the moment, the club is building slowly and we have Warnock and Tan to thank for that.

Let the artist finish his painting before passing judgement.

Roll on the championship. Fu.... the prem. Fu.... scraping an existance every week.

Yeah, we're a whole six points behind mid table teams now - definitely time to give up.
No one is enjoying defeats, it's just that actual football and actual life isn't like a computer game where you press a few buttons and achieve instant success.
Given the instant panic on the part of so many " supporters" after 5 or 6 games in arguably the most competitive league in the world, I think the manager and players are doing well to carry on the gradual progress which they're actually making.
We haven't got the money to try and buy instant , ( and meaningless ), success and there's no "coaching method" which can teach Lee Tomlin to play like Ronaldo, so our two options are to harden up and learn to swim or sink.

There is no plan B , and no international manager with stylish South American players waiting in the dressing room if only Neil Warnock would allow them out ,and if and when we find the mark it will be through determination and hard work from the guys we've already got.
I think they're edging closer and closer to it all the time actually, and the best thing we can do is support them in their work rather than constantly belittling them.

At the end of the day he wasn’t given the resources was he , he said at the time he only has a certain budget to play with he obviously wanted more , he had £10 mil left but couldt get what he wanted for whatever reason , so we are stuck with the players we’ve got
Is any other manager going to get more out of them , I doubt it
As been said apart from man city we have competed in the games and with a bit of fortune which has deserted us Could hae gotten more out of the games
We have to stick with warnock
Something that was highlighted on GoS that I would agree with we tend to switch off a lot and our play is slow compared to most teams in this league in deed and in thought , they always seem to find the space to attack us and we are left standing like statues
Anyway we could have spent 98 mil ala Fulham and still be down the bottom

It really is a choice between man manageing and tactical skills. If keeping spirits up and making the players believe in them self (apart from Zahore), then I think Neil is our man. But he has limitations in the tactical department, no doubt about that. I also believe he has his shortcomings in transfers and very limited knowledge outside the UK. I really don’t see us getting in anyone else who can work with this squad, so a new assistant is the way to go for me. Someone with a scouting network and very good at tactical training.

A lot of truth in the above post

Back in the Championship with 16,000 crowds and sometimes barely 12,000 turning up.

Your also not guaranteed to go straight back up.

Not a win in 9 matches and worst start for 50 years, fans will get fed up and crowds will disappear fast in the long run.

We needed a top quality striker and the money to get one.

I honestly believe Warnocks budget was way to small, I agree with much what Chris says, but pointless sacking Warnock, with this squad he is the best you will get, what I agree with us, we can’t afford to get relegated.

And we needed far better players from day one, with a bigger budget.


You could say we are not far off other clubs, but putting a string of good results together is very very hard in the Premier League, you have to have the quality to turn the games.


Stand by Warnock, but he needs a big budget come this January

Then that risks increasing the debt.

We should have gone for someone like Dwight gale. No point in changing Neil, if he keeps us up great, if we go down, he is surely the best man to get us straight back up again. No brainier. We’d be in league 1 now if he hadn’t come along.

Confidence will come flooding back from everybody once we get a few wins its just waiting but after liverpool we will have played the top 5 neil needs the win as much as us fans to keep his head up everybody can see we are not far off and its pretty obvious that money is going to be spent in january and if for some strange reason funds do not become available the we as fans have a right to demand what is tan thinking but till then we have some easier games fulham at home Leicester brighton Southampton and manure.

A lot of truth in the above post

Back in the Championship with 16,000 crowds and sometimes barely 12,000 turning up.

Your also not guaranteed to go straight back up.

Not a win in 9 matches and worst start for 50 years, fans will get fed up and crowds will disappear fast in the long run.

We needed a top quality striker and the money to get one.

I honestly believe Warnocks budget was way to small, I agree with much what Chris says, but pointless sacking Warnock, with this squad he is the best you will get, what I agree with us, we can’t afford to get relegated.

And we needed far better players from day one, with a bigger budget.


You could say we are not far off other clubs, but putting a string of good results together is very very hard in the Premier League, you have to have the quality to turn the games.


Stand by Warnock, but he needs a big budget come this January

Then that risks increasing the debt.

Being debt free means more to many than the PL, me included. To be stable and not having a big dark cloud hanging over us for once feels good. Look at Fulham, spent 100 million and 3 points above us. In saying that we should be on 5 too, how we lost to a terrible burnely defied belief.

I completely agree with you all ...good posts ......it's just I don't like being smacked every week,the knives are out for me now ,I m afraid to go out lol

Ye roll on the championship a big half empty stadium watching parks football ,with the usual candidates

From Fb

Chris Walters:

Warnock is great championship manager but his coaching tactical and recruitment ideas may be why he has never cut it at this level..best manager we've had.

But we are premier league now and require premier league people in all positions at the club..

if we want to succeed here .we have to stop being grateful for being here ...this is not a bonus season it is an opportunity ..let's compete instead of pretending to enjoy these defeats..because the fans will desert us if we fail..and we need all fans new and old..

I can assure you that I don't enjoy losing at all. Although I found the Huddersfield came the most frustrating.

We really need to start picking up points though but we can at least we some encouragement in the last 2 games. Need to turn them into points now.

Agree 100% with the poster. We need to stop being grateful for being in the PL, and compete. We can’t change the squad for three months now so probably to late. Take the opportunity now being in the PL. it could take 10 or 20 year to get back to the PL. we play week in week out in the Championship to “get into the PL” so now we are here COMPETE

Its about time we had a debt thread.....Then another about how much Tan has wasted.

Malky never caused us to have to indignity of Russell Slade despite the £8 mill on Cornelius, it was sacking him and relacing and backing Ole. I just can't see that happening again.

Ken Choo is an accountant, i bet we have every angle covered this time and we come out quids in whatever happens.

I have said many times, we are in the premier league but we are not a premier league club. Wolves were much better than us or Fulham and it shows.

Since Vinny got his fingers badly burnt in a spiral of debt due to poor decisions its been about financial security and reducing the debt since then
If Fulham caught us last season and we lost in the playoffs, we'd be back to huge cost cutting and hoping for a decent kid to come through every now and then. But they never caught us so we probably have another £150 million more over three season than if we were still tossing around in the championship hoping to beat the Jacks, Wurzels and Leeds.

I am firmly in the sensible spending camp. I think this will be Neils last season in his tracksuit as we will need to be playing a slightly different brand of football next season whatever league we are in. It will take money to do that (by championship standards)
Giving superior teams 75% of the ball will not lead to good results, changing that philosophy will take more than £100mill over the summer. It will take a plan, hopefully Choo has one.

Reply from Fb


Chris Walters:


Don't post on message boards Annis as they can't handle truth..if a pundit predicts a Cardiff loss they say it's anti Welsh.. if you say a certain player ain't doing well they get upset saying you not a fan..but real fans love their team but say when something isn't good enough in the hope it improves.our fan base 20 years ago is so different from today's pretend to enjoy defeat brigade ..they think positive only posts get them approval...so honest opinion is crushed

Reply from FB

Chris Walters:


We agree on most things Annis in fairness only difference of opinion we have is if Warnock fails I think he should be answerable whereas you think he stays whatever..that's a healthy difference of opinion that message boards don't allow..have a good day my old bluebirds friend

Reply from FB

Peter Edwards:

I like the title of this post...not sure if changing Warnock at this stage is the best option though, but your right, Ive supported City since 1966, and this is only the second time in all those years, I have seen top flight football, and I want to stay there, not yo yo up and down the leagues' like it has been for most years.I can,t enjoy the ride at the moment, I hate watching us get beaten by anyone.

Reply from Fb


Chris Walters:


Don't post on message boards Annis as they can't handle truth..if a pundit predicts a Cardiff loss they say it's anti Welsh.. if you say a certain player ain't doing well they get upset saying you not a fan..but real fans love their team but say when something isn't good enough in the hope it improves.our fan base 20 years ago is so different from today's pretend to enjoy defeat brigade ..they think positive only posts get them approval...so honest opinion is crushed

Who does he think he is Tom Cruise

Clearly not been on many message board or don't like people questioning his opinion. People don't always agree, that's life not just football

It doesn't matter what league you're in, a defeat is always painful and leaves you pondering and grasping at the "what-ifs?".

We have to be strong as a fanbase this season. The positivity from us WILL make a difference.

Could we go into "freefall"? NOT if the fanbase stick together. I think you'll find the clubs who do go into freefall have a certain toxic atmosphere coming from the supporters at games.

I'm not on about being a happy-clapper or not noticing where we are lacking but for goodness sake no "booing" or walking out in disgust after losing a match. This club soars when the fans stick together! It was easy doing that in the Championship where another win is always around the corner, but the Premier League is different. Are we as a fanbase mature enough to take it or too full of plastics? I think the former, but we shall see

Might as well hang on to Warnock. Any new manager coming in would just be engaging in a rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic excercise in trying to stop us going down we are simply not good enough. Warnock is probably the best manager to take us back up next season though it will be a very competitive championship and there are no guarentees as favourites Stoke are finding out this season.

Nothing to do with enjoying a defeat....for me the Burnley game was most frustrating as we dominated but couldn’t find the net.....that has to change and I don’t think zohore will do that for us...... but as for being grateful well I feel that being honest nobody expects us to stay up with the squad we have, but also have to consider that I would say Tan is trying to recoup money and is against spending out....look at Fulham..... so i guess be disgruntled and pissed off when we don’t win but maybe just enjoy a good game of football like we did against Arsenal....

At the end of the day we've had a nightmare start with the fixtures - we've played 5 of the top 6 already with Liverpool around the corner. As someone very wisely said on here in another thread essentially we are a season ahead of ourselves and the money we've just spent has only really given us the side we should have had last year if we were to be competitive in the championship.

Yet somehow we are getting better every game and really other than Man City no-one has played us off the park - we've given Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs a run for their money and should have taken points from a sixth-placed Bournemouth.

Fulham who spent something like four times as much as we have, have just been pasted 5-1 by Arsenal at home. Southampton who've spent the last 6 years in the premier league just lost 3-0 to Chelsea. The gulf between the top 6 and the rest this season is huge - and we've seen it up close far more than any other side so far this season.

Next week we beat Fulham by more than two goals and we go above them. Southampton lose to Bournemouth we go level with them on points.

The fact of the matter is that our performances are improving game by game and our fixtures are soon to get a lot easier.

Don't give up yet lads there is a long, long way to go

One other thing...

Reading this thread for some reason reminded me of the home game last time we were in the prem with Sunderland when we were cruising at 2-0 up and their fans didn't stop singing all game. Think it was "things can only get better "if I remember?

The Mackams were awesome fans that day to be fair and they spurred their side to come back and draw 2 all.

Looking back I think that was pretty much the point they started to haul themselves out of the relegation spots as well - just always sticks in my mind as an example of what the belief of fans can do.

Our support has been magnificent this season - if we can keep faith the boys will come good.

The plastics are loving the prem and all tbe trimmings I bet.

At the end of the day we've had a nightmare start with the fixtures - we've played 5 of the top 6 already with Liverpool around the corner. As someone very wisely said on here in another thread essentially we are a season ahead of ourselves and the money we've just spent has only really given us the side we should have had last year if we were to be competitive in the championship.

Yet somehow we are getting better every game and really other than Man City no-one has played us off the park - we've given Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs a run for their money and should have taken points from a sixth-placed Bournemouth.

Fulham who spent something like four times as much as we have, have just been pasted 5-1 by Arsenal at home. Southampton who've spent the last 6 years in the premier league just lost 3-0 to Chelsea. The gulf between the top 6 and the rest this season is huge - and we've seen it up close far more than any other side so far this season.

Next week we beat Fulham by more than two goals and we go above them. Southampton lose to Bournemouth we go level with them on points.

The fact of the matter is that our performances are improving game by game and our fixtures are soon to get a lot easier.

Don't give up yet lads there is a long, long way to go

Excellent, excellent post.