The truth behind the number of players Cardiff C & Swansea C

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The truth behind the number of players Cardiff C & Swansea C

Postby Forever Blue » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:59 am

The truth behind the number of players Cardiff City and Swansea City have actually provided for Wales



Wednesday 7th November 2018


By Ian MItchelmore


Ryan Giggs jokingly highlighted the difference in the number of Swansea City and Cardiff City players currently in the Wales set-up when announcing his latest squad this week.

Swansea duo Connor Roberts and Daniel James have both been included in his plans for the double header against Denmark and Albania later this month.

But there were no Bluebirds in his 26-man squad for Wales' final two fixtures of 2018, with Jazz Richards being the only player currently in the first team at Cardiff City Stadium to have won senior caps for his country.



Speaking at his squad announcement at the Vale Resort on Monday, Giggs heaped praise on Swansea boss Graham Potter for the way he has introduced Welsh players into the first team at the Liberty Stadium before delivering a tongue-in-cheek dig at the Bluebirds.




RYAN GIGGS:

"He's doing a great job but what has been missing which helped Swansea when they were doing really well at the start is Welsh players," he said.

"They had Ben Davies, Joe Allen. Now they have got that back.

"Hopefully they are getting their heart and soul back because I think it's important to have local players.

"We just need Cardiff to start doing that now!"

But what do the numbers actually say?





We took a look over the last decade at which players have played for the national side along with Cardiff or Swansea.

Given that Cardiff academy graduate Aaron Ramsey made his international debut in 2008 against Denmark, - who Wales face at Cardiff City Stadium in the Nations League on November 16 - we used the beginning of the 2008/09 season as a starting point for this research, which gives a scope of just over 10 years.

However, as the midfielder had joined Arsenal by this point, he can't actually be included in our results, in the same way that James can't be included for the Swans as he is yet to make a senior appearance for Wales.

The same applies to three-cap goalkeeper Jason Brown who never actually played for the Bluebirds during his emergency loan spell from Blackburn Rovers in 2011, as well as Swansea centre-back Joe Rodon who - along with James - remains uncapped at senior international level.








Cardiff City and Wales players

Wales internationals to have played for Cardiff City since the start of the 2008/09 season

Craig Bellamy

Darcy Blake*

Rob Earnshaw*

Danny Gabbidon

Emyr Huws

Declan John*

Jason Koumas

Tom Lawrence

Joe Ledley*

Adam Matthews*

Paul Parry

Jazz Richards*

* denotes a player from club's academy

Total: 12 players (6 from academy)

A total of 12 Wales internationals have played for the Bluebirds since the start of the 2008/09 season.

And of that figure, exactly half were in Cardiff's academy.

Jazz Richards of course played in the academies of both Cardiff and Swansea while Declan John came through the ranks in the Welsh capital, although he is now at the Liberty.







And when you go west across the M4, the figures are remarkably similar over the same period.





Swansea City and Wales players

Wales internationals to have played for Swansea City since the start of the 2008/09 season

Joe Allen*

David Cotterill

Ben Davies*

Jermaine Easter

Declan John

Owain Tudur Jones

Andy King

Shaun MacDonald*

Jazz Richards*

Connor Roberts*

Neil Taylor

Ashley Williams

* denotes a player from club's academy

Total: 12 players (5 from academy)

From the beginning of the 2008/09 season, Swansea have also had 12 Wales internationals represent their club.

And of that number, Roberts, Richards, Ben Davies, Joe Allen and Shaun MacDonald all came through the youth system in SA1.

The Swans will almost certainly be able to add Rodon and James to that tally in the near future while Gwion Edwards - who never got to taste first team action at the Liberty - could well feature under Giggs.

Emyr Huws - who also came through the youth system at Swansea - has won 12 caps to date, although the Ipswich Town man never played first-team football for the Swans, but he did make four appearances for rivals Cardiff during the 2016/17 season.








Wales football news

And the Bluebirds do of course have young guns including Mark Harris and Cameron Coxe who will hope to feature on the international stage in the future.

So while there's clearly disparity between the Bluebirds and the Swans on the Welsh scene right now, recent history actually shows that there's been very little to choose between Wales' top two club sides when it comes to making the grade on the international scene.
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The truth behind the number of players Cardiff C & Swansea C

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Re: The truth behind the number of players Cardiff C & Swans

Postby Bluebina » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:13 am

If you went back a few more seasons we would have provided more, and much better players especially if you went back as far as Ramsey.
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Re: The truth behind the number of players Cardiff C & Swans

Postby TAP_Sheep » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:16 am

They will completely surpass us in the next couple of years. Our academy has been poor for a while.
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Re: The truth behind the number of players Cardiff C & Swans

Postby Bluebina » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:06 am

TAP_Sheep wrote:They will completely surpass us in the next couple of years. Our academy has been poor for a while.



The benefit of six years in the Premier League, it depends if they struggle and the owners pull the plug then they won't.
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Re: The truth behind the number of players Cardiff C & Swans

Postby bluebird04 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:23 am

the fact we have to go "lets look at the past 10 years"....shows how far behind we are, Swansea are doing it out of necessity however the players seem to be upto the standard,

we wont have any academy players now for another 10 years....why, because we cannot afford to risk playing a youth player while trying to avoid relegation. if we do go down, we cannot afford to risk playing a youth player while chasing promotion. we need to be an established premier league team, in order to be able to bleed academy players through
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Re: The truth behind the number of players Cardiff C & Swans

Postby pembroke allan » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:14 am

bluebird04 wrote:the fact we have to go "lets look at the past 10 years"....shows how far behind we are, Swansea are doing it out of necessity however the players seem to be upto the standard,

we wont have any academy players now for another 10 years....why, because we cannot afford to risk playing a youth player while trying to avoid relegation. if we do go down, we cannot afford to risk playing a youth player while chasing promotion. we need to be an established premier league team, in order to be able to bleed academy players through





What it shows is despite 6 or more years in premiership their academy as not produced anymore players than we have! Yes our academy as been failed by the club but how can people say we are ten yrs behind another club when despite many years in premiership they've had no more academy players playing for wales than we've had in that time.... in fact you could say swansea have failed to capitalise on being in premiership for those years ?
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Re: The truth behind the number of players Cardiff C & Swans

Postby Fusilier52 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:00 pm

pembroke allan wrote:
bluebird04 wrote:the fact we have to go "lets look at the past 10 years"....shows how far behind we are, Swansea are doing it out of necessity however the players seem to be upto the standard,

we wont have any academy players now for another 10 years....why, because we cannot afford to risk playing a youth player while trying to avoid relegation. if we do go down, we cannot afford to risk playing a youth player while chasing promotion. we need to be an established premier league team, in order to be able to bleed academy players through





What it shows is despite 6 or more years in premiership their academy as not produced anymore players than we have! Yes our academy as been failed by the club but how can people say we are ten yrs behind another club when despite many years in premiership they've had no more academy players playing for wales than we've had in that time.... in fact you could say swansea have failed to capitalise on being in premiership for those years ?


I think you're missing the point of an Academy , which is to produce players to furnish the 1st team ,to play for your country is a by product of that Academy , I'd have to say Swansea have and will produce more 1st team players from the Academy than Cardiff due to the respective Clubs positions atm .How many development players are in Cardiff's squad compared to Swansea's now and going back to 2008/9
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Re: The truth behind the number of players Cardiff C & Swans

Postby pembroke allan » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:23 pm

Fusilier52 wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
bluebird04 wrote:the fact we have to go "lets look at the past 10 years"....shows how far behind we are, Swansea are doing it out of necessity however the players seem to be upto the standard,

we wont have any academy players now for another 10 years....why, because we cannot afford to risk playing a youth player while trying to avoid relegation. if we do go down, we cannot afford to risk playing a youth player while chasing promotion. we need to be an established premier league team, in order to be able to bleed academy players through





What it shows is despite 6 or more years in premiership their academy as not produced anymore players than we have! Yes our academy as been failed by the club but how can people say we are ten yrs behind another club when despite many years in premiership they've had no more academy players playing for wales than we've had in that time.... in fact you could say swansea have failed to capitalise on being in premiership for those years ?


I think you're missing the point of an Academy , which is to produce players to furnish the 1st team ,to play for your country is a by product of that Academy , I'd have to say Swansea have and will produce more 1st team players from the Academy than Cardiff due to the respective Clubs positions atm .How many development players are in Cardiff's squad compared to Swansea's now and going back to 2008/9



No idea and don't particularly care tbh.
As was primarily answering the point made in OP which was about academy players from both clubs playing for wales not for the clubs 1st team, undoubtedly swans produced more than city but as said didnt particularly
Benefit swansea long term unless you count the profits made selling them to stop club losing money year on year,
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Re: The truth behind the number of players Cardiff C & Swans

Postby northernbluebird » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:53 pm

the reality is that swansea used to be one of the few clubs in the UK with a long term strategy. this allowed managers to take the risk of putting some young players in.

here, we have a much more short term outlook, with no clear long term planning. we have tended to let a manager have extensive control over the club, only to sack him, rip up what they did, and start again with another '3 year plan' (see mackay, solskjaer).

jn almost 10 years pretty much only declan john has come through and become a decent player. we clearly need to look at what we've done wrong, and attempt to bring more players through in future, instead of being defensive over what is a fair 'dig'.
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Re: The truth behind the number of players Cardiff C & Swans

Postby Fusilier52 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:45 pm

pembroke allan wrote:
Fusilier52 wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
bluebird04 wrote:the fact we have to go "lets look at the past 10 years"....shows how far behind we are, Swansea are doing it out of necessity however the players seem to be upto the standard,

we wont have any academy players now for another 10 years....why, because we cannot afford to risk playing a youth player while trying to avoid relegation. if we do go down, we cannot afford to risk playing a youth player while chasing promotion. we need to be an established premier league team, in order to be able to bleed academy players through





What it shows is despite 6 or more years in premiership their academy as not produced anymore players than we have! Yes our academy as been failed by the club but how can people say we are ten yrs behind another club when despite many years in premiership they've had no more academy players playing for wales than we've had in that time.... in fact you could say swansea have failed to capitalise on being in premiership for those years ?


I think you're missing the point of an Academy , which is to produce players to furnish the 1st team ,to play for your country is a by product of that Academy , I'd have to say Swansea have and will produce more 1st team players from the Academy than Cardiff due to the respective Clubs positions atm .How many development players are in Cardiff's squad compared to Swansea's now and going back to 2008/9



No idea and don't particularly care tbh.
As was primarily answering the point made in OP which was about academy players from both clubs playing for wales not for the clubs 1st team, undoubtedly swans produced more than city but as said didnt particularly
Benefit swansea long term unless you count the profits made selling them to stop club losing money year on year,


I appreciate the OP's point about playing international rather than club football , but the two are linked and to say that Swansea haven't benefited long term is incorrect ,J Allan's sale of 15 million ? and Ben Davies for example must have gone some way in paying for the two facilities at fairwood and landore , the current senior Welsh squad has two current Swansea players along with the two mentioned above then the U21 squad has 7 from Swansea compared to 1 from Cardiff , regardless of where they come from it's good to see that local Welsh Clubs are bringing players through the system but have a long way to go to hold onto youngsters who disappear into England, hopefully that will change
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Re: The truth behind the number of players Cardiff C & Swans

Postby TAP_Sheep » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:56 pm

Fusilier52 wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Fusilier52 wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
bluebird04 wrote:the fact we have to go "lets look at the past 10 years"....shows how far behind we are, Swansea are doing it out of necessity however the players seem to be upto the standard,

we wont have any academy players now for another 10 years....why, because we cannot afford to risk playing a youth player while trying to avoid relegation. if we do go down, we cannot afford to risk playing a youth player while chasing promotion. we need to be an established premier league team, in order to be able to bleed academy players through





What it shows is despite 6 or more years in premiership their academy as not produced anymore players than we have! Yes our academy as been failed by the club but how can people say we are ten yrs behind another club when despite many years in premiership they've had no more academy players playing for wales than we've had in that time.... in fact you could say swansea have failed to capitalise on being in premiership for those years ?


I think you're missing the point of an Academy , which is to produce players to furnish the 1st team ,to play for your country is a by product of that Academy , I'd have to say Swansea have and will produce more 1st team players from the Academy than Cardiff due to the respective Clubs positions atm .How many development players are in Cardiff's squad compared to Swansea's now and going back to 2008/9



No idea and don't particularly care tbh.
As was primarily answering the point made in OP which was about academy players from both clubs playing for wales not for the clubs 1st team, undoubtedly swans produced more than city but as said didnt particularly
Benefit swansea long term unless you count the profits made selling them to stop club losing money year on year,


I appreciate the OP's point about playing international rather than club football , but the two are linked and to say that Swansea haven't benefited long term is incorrect ,J Allan's sale of 15 million ? and Ben Davies for example must have gone some way in paying for the two facilities at fairwood and landore , the current senior Welsh squad has two current Swansea players along with the two mentioned above then the U21 squad has 7 from Swansea compared to 1 from Cardiff , regardless of where they come from it's good to see that local Welsh Clubs are bringing players through the system but have a long way to go to hold onto youngsters who disappear into England, hopefully that will change


We're definitely paying for having a poor academy. It's a crime that Tommy O'Sullivan isn't a top quality player. If he was at a Prem/Swansea academy he'd be a Premier League regular. Trust me, we ruined that kid. Let go a few players who've moved on to decent clubs and quite a lot of our kids have jumped academies to United, Everton, Man City, etc. which we'll find out about soon enough :roll:
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Re: The truth behind the number of players Cardiff C & Swans

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:01 am

I don't know what this bloke is on about. We're not in business to supply players to Wales or anyone else, we are a football club and our priority is the success of the club so just as lots of English clubs get the best players they can wherever they come from, so do we.
If you've got a good youth programme you won't be restricted to local youngsters either, so this is nonsense.
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