Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:40 pm
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:04 pm
Bananas wrote:rumpo kid wrote:We’re still leaving in March regardless.
Off you go then!!
#welshandeuropean
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:18 pm
rumpo kid wrote:Bananas wrote:rumpo kid wrote:We’re still leaving in March regardless.
Off you go then!!
#welshandeuropean
Spoken like a true Welsh European. In English.
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:46 pm
TopCat CCFC wrote:An even bigger mess after today
Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:25 pm
Sven wrote:TopCat CCFC wrote:An even bigger mess after today
It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"
I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it
Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?
Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?
Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:44 pm
pembroke allan wrote:Sven wrote:TopCat CCFC wrote:An even bigger mess after today
It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"
I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it
Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?
Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?
Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.
Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:00 pm
pembroke allan wrote:Sven wrote:TopCat CCFC wrote:An even bigger mess after today
It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"
I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it
Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?
Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?
Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.
Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:06 pm
Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:45 pm
City Slicker wrote:pembroke allan wrote:Sven wrote:TopCat CCFC wrote:An even bigger mess after today
It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"
I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it
Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?
Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?
Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.
You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.
Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:47 pm
Steve Zodiak wrote:City Slicker wrote:pembroke allan wrote:Sven wrote:TopCat CCFC wrote:An even bigger mess after today
It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"
I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it
Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?
Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?
Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.
You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.
Not sure how many politicians you know, but having had one as a very close friend, and knowing a couple of others through my friend, I would have to disagree that politicians know best about politics. Many of them come from all walks of life, and a lot will know little more than you or I. Have to remember, quite often they are only in Parliament for a few years, and then mess around with local politics for a while before returning to their previous employment. I honestly think we somtimes give our politicians more credit than they actually warrant.
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:38 pm
pembroke allan wrote:Steve Zodiak wrote:City Slicker wrote:pembroke allan wrote:Sven wrote:TopCat CCFC wrote:An even bigger mess after today
It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"
I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it
Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?
Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?
Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.
You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.
Not sure how many politicians you know, but having had one as a very close friend, and knowing a couple of others through my friend, I would have to disagree that politicians know best about politics. Many of them come from all walks of life, and a lot will know little more than you or I. Have to remember, quite often they are only in Parliament for a few years, and then mess around with local politics for a while before returning to their previous employment. I honestly think we somtimes give our politicians more credit than they actually warrant.
The country is a democracy as well and the people voted out! Politicians do what's best for themselves and not always what's good for the people? People must be niave to think that politicians have the peoples interest at heart when talking about brexit, like said mp's want to decide themselves under pretence it's a peoples vote that's not democracy of a country but of individuals with vestive interests
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:07 am
Steve Zodiak wrote:City Slicker wrote:pembroke allan wrote:Sven wrote:TopCat CCFC wrote:An even bigger mess after today
It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"
I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it
Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?
Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?
Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.
You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.
Not sure how many politicians you know, but having had one as a very close friend, and knowing a couple of others through my friend, I would have to disagree that politicians know best about politics. Many of them come from all walks of life, and a lot will know little more than you or I. Have to remember, quite often they are only in Parliament for a few years, and then mess around with local politics for a while before returning to their previous employment. I honestly think we somtimes give our politicians more credit than they actually warrant.
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:23 am
dogfound wrote:pembroke allan wrote:Steve Zodiak wrote:City Slicker wrote:pembroke allan wrote:Sven wrote:TopCat CCFC wrote:An even bigger mess after today
It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"
I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it
Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?
Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?
Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.
You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.
Not sure how many politicians you know, but having had one as a very close friend, and knowing a couple of others through my friend, I would have to disagree that politicians know best about politics. Many of them come from all walks of life, and a lot will know little more than you or I. Have to remember, quite often they are only in Parliament for a few years, and then mess around with local politics for a while before returning to their previous employment. I honestly think we somtimes give our politicians more credit than they actually warrant.
The country is a democracy as well and the people voted out! Politicians do what's best for themselves and not always what's good for the people? People must be niave to think that politicians have the peoples interest at heart when talking about brexit, like said mp's want to decide themselves under pretence it's a peoples vote that's not democracy of a country but of individuals with vestive interests
its not naïve...the vast majority of people ,no matter what their job , do what they think is right and what is best and not always to their personal benefit...the idea that all these ministers have resigned as career moves or that all MPs have vested interests one way or other is just wrong.
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:24 am
City Slicker wrote:Steve Zodiak wrote:City Slicker wrote:pembroke allan wrote:Sven wrote:TopCat CCFC wrote:An even bigger mess after today
It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"
I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it
Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?
Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?
Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.
You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.
Not sure how many politicians you know, but having had one as a very close friend, and knowing a couple of others through my friend, I would have to disagree that politicians know best about politics. Many of them come from all walks of life, and a lot will know little more than you or I. Have to remember, quite often they are only in Parliament for a few years, and then mess around with local politics for a while before returning to their previous employment. I honestly think we somtimes give our politicians more credit than they actually warrant.
Yes one of my good friends is a politician too and he's extremely well clued up on domestic and international affairs and certainly an awful lot more than your average Joe. Yes some are tossers, just look at the likes of Moggy and Johnson but generally I don't think we give the bulk of MPs the credit they deserve.
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:25 pm
pembroke allan wrote:dogfound wrote:pembroke allan wrote:Steve Zodiak wrote:City Slicker wrote:pembroke allan wrote:Sven wrote:TopCat CCFC wrote:An even bigger mess after today
It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"
I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it
Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?
Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?
Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.
You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.
Not sure how many politicians you know, but having had one as a very close friend, and knowing a couple of others through my friend, I would have to disagree that politicians know best about politics. Many of them come from all walks of life, and a lot will know little more than you or I. Have to remember, quite often they are only in Parliament for a few years, and then mess around with local politics for a while before returning to their previous employment. I honestly think we somtimes give our politicians more credit than they actually warrant.
The country is a democracy as well and the people voted out! Politicians do what's best for themselves and not always what's good for the people? People must be niave to think that politicians have the peoples interest at heart when talking about brexit, like said mp's want to decide themselves under pretence it's a peoples vote that's not democracy of a country but of individuals with vestive interests
its not naïve...the vast majority of people ,no matter what their job , do what they think is right and what is best and not always to their personal benefit...the idea that all these ministers have resigned as career moves or that all MPs have vested interests one way or other is just wrong.
Yes we all stride to do our best but you cannot tell me there is no agenda by other parties or con MP'S to either oust may or get brexit overturned even if not in the interests of the UK? This deal may be bad for Britain may not be but it was voted for by majority of the people and should stand! Or is it a case of what happened with other countries like Ireland who opted out but politicians didn't like the peoples vote so had numerous votes until they got right result they wanted? Sounds very familiar now with our politicians doesn't it? Mmmmmm
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:53 pm
Steve Zodiak wrote:City Slicker wrote:Steve Zodiak wrote:City Slicker wrote:pembroke allan wrote:Sven wrote:TopCat CCFC wrote:An even bigger mess after today
It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"
I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it
Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?
Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?
Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.
You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.
Not sure how many politicians you know, but having had one as a very close friend, and knowing a couple of others through my friend, I would have to disagree that politicians know best about politics. Many of them come from all walks of life, and a lot will know little more than you or I. Have to remember, quite often they are only in Parliament for a few years, and then mess around with local politics for a while before returning to their previous employment. I honestly think we somtimes give our politicians more credit than they actually warrant.
Yes one of my good friends is a politician too and he's extremely well clued up on domestic and international affairs and certainly an awful lot more than your average Joe. Yes some are tossers, just look at the likes of Moggy and Johnson but generally I don't think we give the bulk of MPs the credit they deserve.
I think to be fair the two you mentioned, whether we like them or not, are probably in that bunch who know a bit about politics. My friend was not part of the mainstream politicians of the day, although would be known to many on here as he was an MP for one of the Cardiff wards. Many of the back benchers who a lot of us won't have heard of will play an important part in the final outcome, and many of these will be as clued up on politics in much the same way as the average Joe in the street. They will vote on their personal preference, and not necessarily the same way as their constituents voted.
I'm sure Osborne, the biggest doom and gloom merchant during the referendum, was more interested in the family business ties and their reliance on exports to EU countries, rather than worrying about how it will affect me.
Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:16 pm
Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:07 pm
Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:22 pm
rumpo kid wrote:Steve is right. Those two know they’re stuff. All you’ve stated is that you don’t like them.
Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:58 pm
Lengee wrote:I would not sent those 2 are intelligent and know "politics" but they are disingenuous and self serving'. It's utterly incredible some people think Rees Hogg is in touch with the common man. Just look at him, just listen to him! He's only worth about £150 million poor dab.
Meanwhile BJ who couldn't make his mind up until the last minute and then became a vehement and outspoken strong Brexiteer (remember how much money we would be putting into the NHS )the
Others would have us believe that you couldn't meet two more genuine down to earth fellows....you often see them down the Rompney Castle pint in hand on a Friday night.
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:47 pm
dogfound wrote:Lengee wrote:I would not sent those 2 are intelligent and know "politics" but they are disingenuous and self serving'. It's utterly incredible some people think Rees Hogg is in touch with the common man. Just look at him, just listen to him! He's only worth about £150 million poor dab.
Meanwhile BJ who couldn't make his mind up until the last minute and then became a vehement and outspoken strong Brexiteer (remember how much money we would be putting into the NHS )the
Others would have us believe that you couldn't meet two more genuine down to earth fellows....you often see them down the Rompney Castle pint in hand on a Friday night.
what exactly does any of this have to do with Brexit.
how he dresses....how he speaks...how much money he has..
and please do tell what algorithm your using to decide these 2 are not intelligent..
you might as well just post that you hate Tories
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:49 am
Lengee wrote:dogfound wrote:Lengee wrote:I would not sent those 2 are intelligent and know "politics" but they are disingenuous and self serving'. It's utterly incredible some people think Rees Hogg is in touch with the common man. Just look at him, just listen to him! He's only worth about £150 million poor dab.
Meanwhile BJ who couldn't make his mind up until the last minute and then became a vehement and outspoken strong Brexiteer (remember how much money we would be putting into the NHS )the
Others would have us believe that you couldn't meet two more genuine down to earth fellows....you often see them down the Rompney Castle pint in hand on a Friday night.
what exactly does any of this have to do with Brexit.
how he dresses....how he speaks...how much money he has..
and please do tell what algorithm your using to decide these 2 are not intelligent..
you might as well just post that you hate Tories
Why choose one post in isolation when there were about 5 relating to the 2 politicians in question.....BJ and RM were not brought up by me!
I was saying they are intelligent and know politics
But I also agreed with a couple of people that they are disingenuous. Most objective observers would say the same the
You also say I might as well post that I hate Tories. I would post that I hate all Tories if I did. But I dont
E.g. i respect that woman Tory minister who resigned over the gambling issue and helped change the mind of the The government who were pulling back on their previous committment. In other words I like politicians who stick to their principles, rather than always in their own interests first.
My mentioning the Rompney Castle etc was just a bit of fun. No need to get uptight.
Anyway I stick by the comments I made in the OT. that the Conservative government have made a complete mess of things - pre and post Brexit. Not one of the posts since then have given me cause to change that view.
Finally, I will leave you with a Christmas wish......goodwill to all men.
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:38 pm
Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:39 pm
Sven wrote:Project Fear now pushing the possible long delays for up to 6 months at Dover after a full Brexit...
They want to go to Pwll Y Pant Roundabout in Caerphilly or the approach to Bryn Glad Tunnels, if the want to see real ongoing delays!
Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:53 pm
Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:41 pm
Sven wrote:Project Fear now pushing the possible long delays for up to 6 months at Dover after a full Brexit...
They want to go to Pwll Y Pant Roundabout in Caerphilly or the approach to Bryn Glad Tunnels, if the want to see real ongoing delays!
Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:28 pm
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:06 am
Lengee wrote:oh well here we go again. It reminds me of the old David Essex song.
Oh what a circus, oh what a show
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bXYP3SeZiMQ
Brexit is back in town
In the hands of a ditherer called Theresa May!
.........
,...........
You let down your people Theresa
You were supposed to have been a leader
That's all they wanted
Not much to ask for
But in the end you could not deliver