O/T Brexit & Theresa May

An even bigger mess after today

We’re still leaving in March regardless.

Off you go then!!

#welshandeuropean

Spoken like a true Welsh European. In English.

We’re still leaving in March regardless.

Off you go then!!

#welshandeuropean

Spoken like a true Welsh European. In English.

Great change of subject to divert us from the real issue. Go on then, just go now

An even bigger mess after today

It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"

I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it

Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?

Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?

An even bigger mess after today

It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"

I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it

Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?

Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?

Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.

An even bigger mess after today

It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"

I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it

Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?

Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?

Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.

Sadly, I can see that happening. Reverse the vote or blame the people...again!

As an aside, Michael Gove...is he not the most cynically sycophantic politician of modern times?

Changes his position according to where he sees his future ambitions being best served; and even Boris had the balls to stick to his position once he (eventually) chose a position before the original Brexit vote!

An even bigger mess after today

It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"

I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it

Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?

Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?

Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.

You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.

The same MPs that voted to have the referendum.

An even bigger mess after today

It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"

I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it

Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?

Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?

Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.

You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.

Not sure how many politicians you know, but having had one as a very close friend, and knowing a couple of others through my friend, I would have to disagree that politicians know best about politics. Many of them come from all walks of life, and a lot will know little more than you or I. Have to remember, quite often they are only in Parliament for a few years, and then mess around with local politics for a while before returning to their previous employment. I honestly think we somtimes give our politicians more credit than they actually warrant.

An even bigger mess after today

It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"

I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it

Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?

Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?

Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.

You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.

Not sure how many politicians you know, but having had one as a very close friend, and knowing a couple of others through my friend, I would have to disagree that politicians know best about politics. Many of them come from all walks of life, and a lot will know little more than you or I. Have to remember, quite often they are only in Parliament for a few years, and then mess around with local politics for a while before returning to their previous employment. I honestly think we somtimes give our politicians more credit than they actually warrant.

The country is a democracy as well and the people voted out! Politicians do what's best for themselves and not always what's good for the people? People must be niave to think that politicians have the peoples interest at heart when talking about brexit, like said mp's want to decide themselves under pretence it's a peoples vote that's not democracy of a country but of individuals with vestive interests

An even bigger mess after today

It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"

I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it

Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?

Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?

Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.

You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.

Not sure how many politicians you know, but having had one as a very close friend, and knowing a couple of others through my friend, I would have to disagree that politicians know best about politics. Many of them come from all walks of life, and a lot will know little more than you or I. Have to remember, quite often they are only in Parliament for a few years, and then mess around with local politics for a while before returning to their previous employment. I honestly think we somtimes give our politicians more credit than they actually warrant.

The country is a democracy as well and the people voted out! Politicians do what's best for themselves and not always what's good for the people? People must be niave to think that politicians have the peoples interest at heart when talking about brexit, like said mp's want to decide themselves under pretence it's a peoples vote that's not democracy of a country but of individuals with vestive interests

its not naïve...the vast majority of people ,no matter what their job , do what they think is right and what is best and not always to their personal benefit...the idea that all these ministers have resigned as career moves or that all MPs have vested interests one way or other is just wrong.

An even bigger mess after today

It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"

I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it

Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?

Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?

Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.

You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.

Not sure how many politicians you know, but having had one as a very close friend, and knowing a couple of others through my friend, I would have to disagree that politicians know best about politics. Many of them come from all walks of life, and a lot will know little more than you or I. Have to remember, quite often they are only in Parliament for a few years, and then mess around with local politics for a while before returning to their previous employment. I honestly think we somtimes give our politicians more credit than they actually warrant.

Yes one of my good friends is a politician too and he's extremely well clued up on domestic and international affairs and certainly an awful lot more than your average Joe. Yes some are tossers, just look at the likes of Moggy and Johnson but generally I don't think we give the bulk of MPs the credit they deserve.

An even bigger mess after today

It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"

I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it

Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?

Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?

Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.

You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.

Not sure how many politicians you know, but having had one as a very close friend, and knowing a couple of others through my friend, I would have to disagree that politicians know best about politics. Many of them come from all walks of life, and a lot will know little more than you or I. Have to remember, quite often they are only in Parliament for a few years, and then mess around with local politics for a while before returning to their previous employment. I honestly think we somtimes give our politicians more credit than they actually warrant.

The country is a democracy as well and the people voted out! Politicians do what's best for themselves and not always what's good for the people? People must be niave to think that politicians have the peoples interest at heart when talking about brexit, like said mp's want to decide themselves under pretence it's a peoples vote that's not democracy of a country but of individuals with vestive interests

its not naïve...the vast majority of people ,no matter what their job , do what they think is right and what is best and not always to their personal benefit...the idea that all these ministers have resigned as career moves or that all MPs have vested interests one way or other is just wrong.

Yes we all stride to do our best but you cannot tell me there is no agenda by other parties or con MP'S to either oust may or get brexit overturned even if not in the interests of the UK? This deal may be bad for Britain may not be but it was voted for by majority of the people and should stand! Or is it a case of what happened with other countries like Ireland who opted out but politicians didn't like the peoples vote so had numerous votes until they got right result they wanted? Sounds very familiar now with our politicians doesn't it? Mmmmmm

An even bigger mess after today

It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"

I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it

Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?

Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?

Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.

You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.

Not sure how many politicians you know, but having had one as a very close friend, and knowing a couple of others through my friend, I would have to disagree that politicians know best about politics. Many of them come from all walks of life, and a lot will know little more than you or I. Have to remember, quite often they are only in Parliament for a few years, and then mess around with local politics for a while before returning to their previous employment. I honestly think we somtimes give our politicians more credit than they actually warrant.

Yes one of my good friends is a politician too and he's extremely well clued up on domestic and international affairs and certainly an awful lot more than your average Joe. Yes some are tossers, just look at the likes of Moggy and Johnson but generally I don't think we give the bulk of MPs the credit they deserve.

I think to be fair the two you mentioned, whether we like them or not, are probably in that bunch who know a bit about politics. My friend was not part of the mainstream politicians of the day, although would be known to many on here as he was an MP for one of the Cardiff wards. Many of the back benchers who a lot of us won't have heard of will play an important part in the final outcome, and many of these will be as clued up on politics in much the same way as the average Joe in the street. They will vote on their personal preference, and not necessarily the same way as their constituents voted.
I'm sure Osborne, the biggest doom and gloom merchant during the referendum, was more interested in the family business ties and their reliance on exports to EU countries, rather than worrying about how it will affect me.

An even bigger mess after today

It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"

I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it

Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?

Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?

Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.

You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.

Not sure how many politicians you know, but having had one as a very close friend, and knowing a couple of others through my friend, I would have to disagree that politicians know best about politics. Many of them come from all walks of life, and a lot will know little more than you or I. Have to remember, quite often they are only in Parliament for a few years, and then mess around with local politics for a while before returning to their previous employment. I honestly think we somtimes give our politicians more credit than they actually warrant.

The country is a democracy as well and the people voted out! Politicians do what's best for themselves and not always what's good for the people? People must be niave to think that politicians have the peoples interest at heart when talking about brexit, like said mp's want to decide themselves under pretence it's a peoples vote that's not democracy of a country but of individuals with vestive interests

its not naïve...the vast majority of people ,no matter what their job , do what they think is right and what is best and not always to their personal benefit...the idea that all these ministers have resigned as career moves or that all MPs have vested interests one way or other is just wrong.

Yes we all stride to do our best but you cannot tell me there is no agenda by other parties or con MP'S to either oust may or get brexit overturned even if not in the interests of the UK? This deal may be bad for Britain may not be but it was voted for by majority of the people and should stand! Or is it a case of what happened with other countries like Ireland who opted out but politicians didn't like the peoples vote so had numerous votes until they got right result they wanted? Sounds very familiar now with our politicians doesn't it? Mmmmmm

the problem I had with your first post....and this one is you want to tar them all with the same brush..of course there are agendas ,some want a proper Brexit, some want a Brexit that serves as lip service but changes little....they are not conspiring against the people ,well at least not all of them..

An even bigger mess after today

It is...and she has now been accused of "misleading Parliament, either inadvertently or deliberately"

I'm increasingly moving towards the thought that Teresa May is deliberately engineering the situation in the full knowledge that the vote will go against her next week but equally knowing that she can then lay claim to it not being her fault, as she put the negotiated deal to Parliament and it was they (the MP's) that rejected it

Why else would she continue with the plan on offer in the clear knowledge of failure?

Does she have a 'Plan B' up her sleeve and, if so, what might it be?

Yes plan B is to let mp's decide if we leave or stay in EU! and they'll call it the peoples referendum although the people won't have a say? So democracy of the people doesn't matter as politicians know best.

You're right; politicians do know best about politics. That's why we're a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are political minefields.

Not sure how many politicians you know, but having had one as a very close friend, and knowing a couple of others through my friend, I would have to disagree that politicians know best about politics. Many of them come from all walks of life, and a lot will know little more than you or I. Have to remember, quite often they are only in Parliament for a few years, and then mess around with local politics for a while before returning to their previous employment. I honestly think we somtimes give our politicians more credit than they actually warrant.

Yes one of my good friends is a politician too and he's extremely well clued up on domestic and international affairs and certainly an awful lot more than your average Joe. Yes some are tossers, just look at the likes of Moggy and Johnson but generally I don't think we give the bulk of MPs the credit they deserve.

I think to be fair the two you mentioned, whether we like them or not, are probably in that bunch who know a bit about politics. My friend was not part of the mainstream politicians of the day, although would be known to many on here as he was an MP for one of the Cardiff wards. Many of the back benchers who a lot of us won't have heard of will play an important part in the final outcome, and many of these will be as clued up on politics in much the same way as the average Joe in the street. They will vote on their personal preference, and not necessarily the same way as their constituents voted.
I'm sure Osborne, the biggest doom and gloom merchant during the referendum, was more interested in the family business ties and their reliance on exports to EU countries, rather than worrying about how it will affect me.

Sorry Steve, your post lost some credibility when you stated those two know a bit about politics. I'm sure they do, but they are tarred by the same brush of disingenuousness. Neither have the national interest as their prime concern.

I would not sent those 2 are intelligent and know "politics" but they are disingenuous and self serving'. It's utterly incredible some people think Rees Hogg is in touch with the common man. Just look at him, just listen to him! He's only worth about £150 million poor dab.
Meanwhile BJ who couldn't make his mind up until the last minute and then became a vehement and outspoken strong Brexiteer (remember how much money we would be putting into the NHS )the

Others would have us believe that you couldn't meet two more genuine down to earth fellows....you often see them down the Rompney Castle pint in hand on a Friday night.

Steve is right. Those two know they’re stuff. All you’ve stated is that you don’t like them.

Steve is right. Those two know they’re stuff. All you’ve stated is that you don’t like them.

Cheers Rumpo. I was not saying I like them or agree with them, but in my opinion neither of them are stupid people. They are both well educated, and have a good knowledge of politics. There are plenty of so called politicians around who have don't have much more idea of politics than the average man in the street. Just take a look at some of those down the Bay.

I would not sent those 2 are intelligent and know "politics" but they are disingenuous and self serving'. It's utterly incredible some people think Rees Hogg is in touch with the common man. Just look at him, just listen to him! He's only worth about £150 million poor dab.
Meanwhile BJ who couldn't make his mind up until the last minute and then became a vehement and outspoken strong Brexiteer (remember how much money we would be putting into the NHS )the

Others would have us believe that you couldn't meet two more genuine down to earth fellows....you often see them down the Rompney Castle pint in hand on a Friday night.

what exactly does any of this have to do with Brexit.

how he dresses....how he speaks...how much money he has..

and please do tell what algorithm your using to decide these 2 are not intelligent..


you might as well just post that you hate Tories

I would not sent those 2 are intelligent and know "politics" but they are disingenuous and self serving'. It's utterly incredible some people think Rees Hogg is in touch with the common man. Just look at him, just listen to him! He's only worth about £150 million poor dab.
Meanwhile BJ who couldn't make his mind up until the last minute and then became a vehement and outspoken strong Brexiteer (remember how much money we would be putting into the NHS )the

Others would have us believe that you couldn't meet two more genuine down to earth fellows....you often see them down the Rompney Castle pint in hand on a Friday night.

what exactly does any of this have to do with Brexit.

how he dresses....how he speaks...how much money he has..

and please do tell what algorithm your using to decide these 2 are not intelligent..


you might as well just post that you hate Tories

Why choose one post in isolation when there were about 5 relating to the 2 politicians in question.....BJ and RM were not brought up by me!
I was saying they are intelligent and know politics
But I also agreed with a couple of people that they are disingenuous. Most objective observers would say the same the
You also say I might as well post that I hate Tories. I would post that I hate all Tories if I did. But I dont
E.g. i respect that woman Tory minister who resigned over the gambling issue and helped change the mind of the The government who were pulling back on their previous committment. In other words I like politicians who stick to their principles, rather than always in their own interests first.

My mentioning the Rompney Castle etc was just a bit of fun. No need to get uptight.
Anyway I stick by the comments I made in the OT. that the Conservative government have made a complete mess of things - pre and post Brexit. Not one of the posts since then have given me cause to change that view.
Finally, I will leave you with a Christmas wish......goodwill to all men.

I would not sent those 2 are intelligent and know "politics" but they are disingenuous and self serving'. It's utterly incredible some people think Rees Hogg is in touch with the common man. Just look at him, just listen to him! He's only worth about £150 million poor dab.
Meanwhile BJ who couldn't make his mind up until the last minute and then became a vehement and outspoken strong Brexiteer (remember how much money we would be putting into the NHS )the

Others would have us believe that you couldn't meet two more genuine down to earth fellows....you often see them down the Rompney Castle pint in hand on a Friday night.

what exactly does any of this have to do with Brexit.

how he dresses....how he speaks...how much money he has..

and please do tell what algorithm your using to decide these 2 are not intelligent..


you might as well just post that you hate Tories

Why choose one post in isolation when there were about 5 relating to the 2 politicians in question.....BJ and RM were not brought up by me!
I was saying they are intelligent and know politics
But I also agreed with a couple of people that they are disingenuous. Most objective observers would say the same the
You also say I might as well post that I hate Tories. I would post that I hate all Tories if I did. But I dont
E.g. i respect that woman Tory minister who resigned over the gambling issue and helped change the mind of the The government who were pulling back on their previous committment. In other words I like politicians who stick to their principles, rather than always in their own interests first.

My mentioning the Rompney Castle etc was just a bit of fun. No need to get uptight.
Anyway I stick by the comments I made in the OT. that the Conservative government have made a complete mess of things - pre and post Brexit. Not one of the posts since then have given me cause to change that view.
Finally, I will leave you with a Christmas wish......goodwill to all men.

so the intelligent remark was based on having a 150 mill and not looking or sounding as he should in your mind...no algorithm or further explanation to their qualifications meaning less than that of joe from down the road.

not in touch with the common man...you only have to read this thread to figure out there is no such thing...your average joe might have voted either way on this topic..
and as for politicians sticking to their principals... is that really what people want, or do people want representatives that can on times see they were wrong and be reasoned with and might even resign if they feel they can not stand behind a certain policy....

you my friend want it all, so long as you can hate tories..you have not said your views on brexit, where they are going wrong, or who has the answers..you just seem to think the tories as a party are playing for the other team..

Project Fear now pushing the possible long delays for up to 6 months at Dover after a full Brexit...

They want to go to Pwll Y Pant Roundabout in Caerphilly or the approach to Bryn Glas Tunnels, if the want to see real ongoing delays!

Project Fear now pushing the possible long delays for up to 6 months at Dover after a full Brexit...

They want to go to Pwll Y Pant Roundabout in Caerphilly or the approach to Bryn Glad Tunnels, if the want to see real ongoing delays!

Pwll y pant sorted now Or have they made it worse?

Good question for people? What if cons lose vote and decide to hold another referendum which again votes out! What would the MPS do then vote against it again?
Or will it be the Denmark solution keep having referendums until people say yes!!

Project Fear now pushing the possible long delays for up to 6 months at Dover after a full Brexit...

They want to go to Pwll Y Pant Roundabout in Caerphilly or the approach to Bryn Glad Tunnels, if the want to see real ongoing delays!

And we’re going to run out of drinking water and Dutch sperm.

oh well here we go again. It reminds me of the old David Essex song.
Oh what a circus, oh what a show

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bXYP3SeZiMQ

Brexit is back in town
In the hands of a ditherer called Theresa May!
.........
,...........
You let down your people Theresa
You were supposed to have been a leader
That's all they wanted
Not much to ask for
But in the end you could not deliver

oh well here we go again. It reminds me of the old David Essex song.
Oh what a circus, oh what a show

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bXYP3SeZiMQ

Brexit is back in town
In the hands of a ditherer called Theresa May!
.........
,...........
You let down your people Theresa
You were supposed to have been a leader
That's all they wanted
Not much to ask for
But in the end you could not deliver

pretty sure no matter what track she took you would not be happy...
you dont even say what would make you happy for fear of not being able to criticise should it turn out to be what you wanted....