Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:01 pm
rumpo kid wrote:you’ll also know that tariffs work both ways...being in the Civil Service.
Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:42 pm
Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:04 pm
Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:37 pm
northernbluebird wrote:as long as we have full control over our borders, and leave the EU, then that's a good thing. northern ireland is a sideshow distracting us from the important stuff - i couldn't care less.
may has been pushed around by the EU, as david cameron was, but read the news from the EU side and they say she's a very tough negotiator. the last thing this country needs is more chaos with may being pushed out.
thankfully i've had a couple of days off from the news - been great for my blood pressure
Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:46 pm
Jock wrote:northernbluebird wrote:as long as we have full control over our borders, and leave the EU, then that's a good thing. northern ireland is a sideshow distracting us from the important stuff - i couldn't care less.
may has been pushed around by the EU, as david cameron was, but read the news from the EU side and they say she's a very tough negotiator. the last thing this country needs is more chaos with may being pushed out.
thankfully i've had a couple of days off from the news - been great for my blood pressure
With the leverage we have she shave secured a much better deal. The deal on the table is not Brexit.
Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:48 pm
captbirdseye wrote:rumpo kid wrote:you’ll also know that tariffs work both ways...being in the Civil Service.
So let's just tariff everyone else then. Its worked well in the US.
Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:00 pm
Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:28 pm
northernbluebird wrote:Jock wrote:northernbluebird wrote:as long as we have full control over our borders, and leave the EU, then that's a good thing. northern ireland is a sideshow distracting us from the important stuff - i couldn't care less.
may has been pushed around by the EU, as david cameron was, but read the news from the EU side and they say she's a very tough negotiator. the last thing this country needs is more chaos with may being pushed out.
thankfully i've had a couple of days off from the news - been great for my blood pressure
With the leverage we have she shave secured a much better deal. The deal on the table is not Brexit.
on paper we have leverage, but in practice we don't.
the reason is the EU will always prioritise keeping together and expanding the union (and it's ridiculous 4 freedoms) over pragmatic economics. hence the euro, eastern european expansion etc.
and hence why david cameron was humiliated when he failed to get any concessions. yes it led to brexit, but this was an acceptable price given that offering a special deal could have caused others to leave.
logically, the only solution was no deal, properly leave the EU and make this clear that this would happen from the start of these ridiculously embarrassing and drawn out 'negotiations'. the EU do not negotiate, we learnt that from david cameron's concessions fiasco.
Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:43 pm
Jock wrote:northernbluebird wrote:Jock wrote:northernbluebird wrote:as long as we have full control over our borders, and leave the EU, then that's a good thing. northern ireland is a sideshow distracting us from the important stuff - i couldn't care less.
may has been pushed around by the EU, as david cameron was, but read the news from the EU side and they say she's a very tough negotiator. the last thing this country needs is more chaos with may being pushed out.
thankfully i've had a couple of days off from the news - been great for my blood pressure
With the leverage we have she shave secured a much better deal. The deal on the table is not Brexit.
on paper we have leverage, but in practice we don't.
the reason is the EU will always prioritise keeping together and expanding the union (and it's ridiculous 4 freedoms) over pragmatic economics. hence the euro, eastern european expansion etc.
and hence why david cameron was humiliated when he failed to get any concessions. yes it led to brexit, but this was an acceptable price given that offering a special deal could have caused others to leave.
logically, the only solution was no deal, properly leave the EU and make this clear that this would happen from the start of these ridiculously embarrassing and drawn out 'negotiations'. the EU do not negotiate, we learnt that from david cameron's concessions fiasco.
It’s a good point but I think pressure from business would have been colossal and concentrated politicians minds. I said right from the start we should just walk away.
Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:22 pm
Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:55 pm
Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:30 am
Dave67 wrote:That's the problem with populism.
UKIP/Tabloids pedaled easy answers to complex questions and people were all too happy to believe them.
Muddy the water with "Brussels Bureaucrats" "Gravy Train" "EU legislation on Bananas" "Migrants are killing our citizens, raping our children and taking our Jobs" "EU super state" "EU Army"and then blame the opposition for "Project Fear"
People conclude that all politicians lie and pick the one that promises the most.
Not very complicated but effective - take a look at Trump.
Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:32 am
Dave67 wrote:That's the problem with populism.
UKIP/Tabloids pedaled easy answers to complex questions and people were all too happy to believe them.
Muddy the water with "Brussels Bureaucrats" "Gravy Train" "EU legislation on Bananas" "Migrants are killing our citizens, raping our children and taking our Jobs" "EU super state" "EU Army"and then blame the opposition for "Project Fear"
People conclude that all politicians lie and pick the one that promises the most.
Not very complicated but effective - take a look at Trump.
Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:27 am
AfricanBluebird wrote:Surely most people now see that the referendum was premature and that a 5 year delay while we opened discussions with the EU and did extensive research would have been better. Then at least we could have gone to the polls with a better understanding of what Brexit would look like with short, medium and long term pros and cons laid out as well as they could have been.
Cameron was naive and stupid, the leave campaign was corrupt and misled the people with lies and mistruths and the remain campaign was absolutely useless! The Tories were already damaging this country through austerity measures that will cost us all more money in the long run as we pick up the pieces of cutting investment into preventative health and social care and have shown no leadership, while the Labour party leadership is an absolute disgrace and cannot be trusted.
All in all a complete shambles.
As a nation we will recover but in all honesty we need to prepare for quite a long time of uncertainty.
Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:32 am
Dave67 wrote:That's the problem with populism.
UKIP/Tabloids pedaled easy answers to complex questions and people were all too happy to believe them.
Muddy the water with "Brussels Bureaucrats" "Gravy Train" "EU legislation on Bananas" "Migrants are killing our citizens, raping our children and taking our Jobs" "EU super state" "EU Army"and then blame the opposition for "Project Fear"
People conclude that all politicians lie and pick the one that promises the most.
Not very complicated but effective - take a look at Trump.
Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Tony Blue Williams wrote:AfricanBluebird wrote:Surely most people now see that the referendum was premature and that a 5 year delay while we opened discussions with the EU and did extensive research would have been better. Then at least we could have gone to the polls with a better understanding of what Brexit would look like with short, medium and long term pros and cons laid out as well as they could have been.
Cameron was naive and stupid, the leave campaign was corrupt and misled the people with lies and mistruths and the remain campaign was absolutely useless! The Tories were already damaging this country through austerity measures that will cost us all more money in the long run as we pick up the pieces of cutting investment into preventative health and social care and have shown no leadership, while the Labour party leadership is an absolute disgrace and cannot be trusted.
All in all a complete shambles.
As a nation we will recover but in all honesty we need to prepare for quite a long time of uncertainty.
This narrative that those who voted leave didn't understand the issues does my head in. I knew exactly what I was voting for and the ramifications. What I didn't know was the sheer incompetence of the political class to carry out the referendum result.
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:48 pm
Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:33 pm
dogfound wrote:btw your obsession with bringing Trump up in threads he has no business being in gives you away.
Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:39 pm
Tony Blue Williams wrote:A bit like those who peddle the Trump card as an easy answer There are terrible problems with the EU the biggest one being the EU Commission (the power base) is appointed and not elected so is not accountable to the electorate. Even Trump has to seek re-election
Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:59 pm
dogfound wrote:people were all too happy......people conclude.....what are you if not a person?
dogfound wrote:some people might buy the B/S pedalled by both sides but I think most are capable of sifting through and making up their own minds
dogfound wrote:and doubt very much your average joe/mary having concluded ALL promises are lies would then choose the biggest lie..really well thought out ...
Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:16 pm
dogfound wrote:some people might buy the B/S pedalled by both sides
Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:05 pm
Dave67 wrote:That's the problem with populism.
UKIP/Tabloids pedaled easy answers to complex questions and people were all too happy to believe them.
Muddy the water with "Brussels Bureaucrats" "Gravy Train" "EU legislation on Bananas" "Migrants are killing our citizens, raping our children and taking our Jobs" "EU super state" "EU Army"and then blame the opposition for "Project Fear"
People conclude that all politicians lie and pick the one that promises the most.
Not very complicated but effective - take a look at Trump.
Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:59 pm
Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:14 pm
northernbluebird wrote:interesting how you bring up 'project fear'.
shortly before the vote, george osborne said that the following would happen immediately if britain voted to leave the EU.
house prices down by between 10-18%
unemployment up by between 520,000 and 820,000
gdp down by between 3.6% and 6%
average real wages down by between 2.8% and 4%
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics- ... m-36355564
if that isn't project fear, i don't know what is.
Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:19 pm
Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:25 pm
northernbluebird from October 2017 on Neil Etheridge wrote:it's certainly a strange situation as he doesnt inspire confidence and always looks to have an error in him, but you check his record and its the best in the league!
he is not helped by playing alongside players like bamba who play him into trouble, and who is even more error prone by the way, IMO.
Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:33 pm
Dave67 wrote:I have just dug up your forecast of Neil Etheridge from October 2017.....northernbluebird from October 2017 on Neil Etheridge wrote:it's certainly a strange situation as he doesnt inspire confidence and always looks to have an error in him, but you check his record and its the best in the league!
he is not helped by playing alongside players like bamba who play him into trouble, and who is even more error prone by the way, IMO.
Seems forecasts are not as easy as you would have us believe.
Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:49 am
AfricanBluebird wrote:A no deal brexit...
▪️We turn all the EU external tariffs against ourselves
▪️Multiplying the beuraucracy and costs at our island's main food port
▪️Removing the rights of 1.4 million emigrant Brits to live in their homes
▪️Ending the Good Friday Agreement
▪️Massively increasing the average export distances for UK businesses.
▪️Leaving EURATOM, which allows us to quickly get the radioactive materials necessary for treating CANCER.
▪️Ending trade deals which make up over 60% of our international trade.
The PMs deal resolves many of these but keeps us partially in and subject to the EU without a vote... plus we have to pay.
All in all “clusterfuck” seems like the appropriate word
Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:51 am
northernbluebird wrote:Dave67 wrote:I have just dug up your forecast of Neil Etheridge from October 2017.....northernbluebird from October 2017 on Neil Etheridge wrote:it's certainly a strange situation as he doesnt inspire confidence and always looks to have an error in him, but you check his record and its the best in the league!
he is not helped by playing alongside players like bamba who play him into trouble, and who is even more error prone by the way, IMO.
Seems forecasts are not as easy as you would have us believe.
trawling through page after page of my posts and that's the worst you can find? i'm flattered. i also think you need to get some hobbies / a job.
Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:09 am
AfricanBluebird wrote:A no deal brexit...
▪️We turn all the EU external tariffs against ourselves
▪️Multiplying the beuraucracy and costs at our island's main food port
▪️Removing the rights of 1.4 million emigrant Brits to live in their homes
▪️Ending the Good Friday Agreement
▪️Massively increasing the average export distances for UK businesses.
▪️Leaving EURATOM, which allows us to quickly get the radioactive materials necessary for treating CANCER.
▪️Ending trade deals which make up over 60% of our international trade.
The PMs deal resolves many of these but keeps us partially in and subject to the EU without a vote... plus we have to pay.
All in all “clusterfuck” seems like the appropriate word