UPDATED: SCOTLAND'S FIRST BAME BOSS FOR 15 YEARS TALKS

Kevin Harper: Albion Rovers manager is Scotland's first black boss in 15 years
By Richard Winton - BBC Sport Scotland

Kevin Harper broke through at Hibs and spent six years at Easter Road before leaving in 1998

Is there still a problem with racism in Scottish football?


Kevin Harper thinks so. Earlier this month, the 42-year-old was appointed manager of Albion Rovers, the club currently bottom of Scotland's League Two. It made him the first black, Asian or minority ethnic boss of a Scottish club since Marcio Maximo left Livingston in October 2003.

"In any other walk of life, if there wasn't a black or ethnic minority in a particular industry or company for 15 years, there would be uproar," Harper says. "Should be football be different?"

In this interview with BBC Sport Scotland, the former Hibernian, Derby and Portsmouth winger talks about being rejected for "30 or 40" jobs, being racially abused as a teenager and the pressure of being a black manager.

'Maybe they think there's no point'

Before Brazilian Maximo's four-month tenure, only Dave Smith at Montrose, John Barnes at Celtic and Claude Anelka - who appointed himself at Raith Rovers - have taken charge of Scottish teams.

The last Scottish government census in 2011 found that 4% of the population are non-white. Yet, at the last count, 6% of the 10,000 registered Scottish FA coaches fell into that category.

Harper, though, remains unconvinced. He estimates that he has applied for between 30 and 40 coaching jobs at all levels of the Scottish game in the past five years but has not once been invited for interview. Only three clubs extended him the courtesy of a rejection letter.

"I imagine a lot of people would get disheartened," says Harper, who has been working as a recruitment consultant for the past five months. "And maybe that's it. Maybe black and ethnic coaches think 'what's the point?'.

"I'm not for a minute saying black or ethnic coaches deserve an interview purely because of their colour. And I wasn't the best candidate in all of those cases.

"But, when you look at CVs, there's a least half of those jobs, in my opinion, that I should have been interviewed for."


'Players are still racially abused'

The most recent accusation of racism in Scottish football was the anti-Irish variety against Hibernian head coach Neil Lennon at the Edinburgh derby last month.

Harper has huge sympathy for the former Celtic boss and insists racial abuse from the stands in Scotland still happens far too often.

"Players still get it. That's a fact," he says. "It's changed a hell of a lot, but we've not come far enough. Are we ever going to have a time when there is nobody in a stand or on the side of a pitch who is going to say something? I don't think so."

Harper speaks from bitter experience. He says he was racially abused by opponents in the professional game but can also vividly recall the bile spat at him from the sidelines in his formative years in the game.

"Any game I went to, I'd be racially abused as a 10, 11, 12, 13 year old," he says. "But I don't believe everyone who says something like that is racist - it's the easy word to come out with. We need to educate people and make them understand that it's unacceptable and I don't think we do that enough."


'This isn't going to open the floodgates'

Harper has done plenty of learning himself over the past 20-odd years.

The explosive, dreadlocked talent who broke through at Hibs, went on to spend nine years in the English second-tier with Derby County, Portsmouth and Stoke City.

He claimed three championship medals in the process and played under managers such as Tony Pulis, Steve McClaren and Harry Redknapp - and alongside the likes of Teddy Sheringham, Robert Prosinecki and Paul Merson.

Those relationships and experiences will inform his managerial style, which Harper describes as "methodical, calm... but I can lose the head at times".

So too will a short stint in the Australian third tier, where he was technical director of a club as well as first-team and under-18s manager - a set up that is likely to mirror the all-encompassing nature of his role with Albion Rovers.

But few of his contemporaries in Scotland's League Two will have the same attention and expectation on them as Harper does. Not that he feels it.

"If Albion Rovers had appointed a white manager, I don't think there would have been the interest. But do I feel more pressure because I'm black? No. The pressure for me is to keep the club in the league," says Harper, who lost his first game in charge against Berwick Rangers on Saturday.

"If I do well, it might help others, but I don't think me being at Albion Rovers or keeping them up is going to open the floodgates for black and ethnic managers to take over, so to speak.

"That said, if one person wants to become a coach or a manager because of me, that's perfect."

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Is it just me, but reading this I couldn't help feeling Kevin Harper is making more of this than there is to it?

In a League where only 4% of the population are BAME, he he's been given a job and I'm sure even he would hope he wasn't appointed because he was the best person for it rather than because of his colour?

He's clearly stated that for many of the jobs applied for, there have been "better" candidates and that he only "feels" he should have been given "at least" an interview. He also believes that his appointment won't particularly "open the floodgates" for BAME managers at Scottish clubs

Seems an odd interview but I wish him good luck and only time and hard work will tell if he was the right person for Albion Rovers

Absolute crap, the last major racist incidents in Scotland were directed at Mark Walters by Celtic and Hearts fans in the 80s. How anyone can claim Lennon telling Hearts fans to be quiet, when a decision had just went against them, then being hit by a coin was racist is beyond insane. Harper has a chance to prove himself at Albion Rovers, Alex Ferguson started his managerial career at a similar sized club, East Stirlingshire and went onto become the most successful British Manager ever, if Harper’s got the skills then skin pigmentation won’t hold him back. Just another example of grievance culture.

Maybe, just maybe there are other factors to Harper not getting the job other than the level of melatonin in his skin - Like the fact he is underqualified.

At 42 he is a young rookie with little experience on his CV going for a job in an incredibly competitive market - him getting a lot of rejection doesn't necessarily need to be about race. I took a quick look at his CV and he has 6 months of coaching the under 20s at Airdrieonians alongside a brief stint as player-manager at Thorniewood United.

The only other coaching pedigree I can see about him is the time in Australian third division as technical director. If you were the chairman of a professional club would that CV really leap out at you?

I wish him the best I really do but let's fill the world with imaginary racist bogeymen just because someone applied for a bunch of jobs they were underqualified for and didn't happen to get many interviews.

Also just to say that racism is obviously bad and certainly still exists, before anyone tries to call me whatever the buzz term 'ist' of the week is.

Actually bit of a quiet morning so I thought I'd do some maths around this to see if Harper has a point and actually Scotland should have had loads more minority managers but they're all just a bunch of racist scumbags keeping the black man down.

So to overcome my earlier assertion that Harper didn't get the interviews was because he has a weak CV and was indeed all just down to him being black, firstly let's do away with any nonsense of merit-based appointments and imagine everybody in the world is as good as everybody else and we can all just do whatever we choose to - because you gotta live your own experience or some similar such fluffy nonsense.

So in that case...

There are 42 professional clubs across their league system. So there are 42 opportunities for people to be 'boss'.

Let's say every year half of the clubs get new managers. So 24 jobs - it's a fairly high estimate but let's go with that to keep the numbers relatively simple otherwise, I might get a bit lost.

Then in total, there are 10,000 coaches in the SFA system.

For the sake of this argument, they are all as good as each other (only way to ensure everyone gets an even chance is to assume everyone is completely equal) so the chance of any individual coach getting a manager role would be 0.24% per year. (24/10,000 *100)

6% of coaches are from a minority background in the SFA coaching system. So the chances of someone from a minority background getting a top job would be 1.44% per year (0.24% * 6).

So statistically if we remove things like merit, past history, aptitude, and employ people solely on their own immutable characteristics (i.e. race) then we would have a minority manager every 69 years. (100/1.44)

Now, whislt I am certainly no sciencestition and i'm happy for someone more suited to such high level advanced mathematics to jump in here with any corrections, I do think that this may prove irrefutably that for the sake of intersectionality, inclusiveness, diversity and damn it simply for and all things good and just in the world that Albion need to fire Kevin Harper with immediate effect as Scotland isn't due another minorities manager for 44 years.

#SmashTheSFA #SmashThePatriarchy #Smashy&Nicey

(I did say it was a quiet morning)

Actually bit of a quiet morning so I thought I'd do some maths around this to see if Harper has a point and actually Scotland should have had loads more minority managers but they're all just a bunch of racist scumbags keeping the black man down.

So to overcome my earlier assertion that Harper didn't get the interviews was because he has a weak CV and was indeed all just down to him being black, firstly let's do away with any nonsense of merit-based appointments and imagine everybody in the world is as good as everybody else and we can all just do whatever we choose to - because you gotta live your own experience or some similar such fluffy nonsense.

So in that case...

There are 42 professional clubs across their league system. So there are 42 opportunities for people to be 'boss'.

Let's say every year half of the clubs get new managers. So 24 jobs - it's a fairly high estimate but let's go with that to keep the numbers relatively simple otherwise, I might get a bit lost.

Then in total, there are 10,000 coaches in the SFA system.

For the sake of this argument, they are all as good as each other (only way to ensure everyone gets an even chance is to assume everyone is completely equal) so the chance of any individual coach getting a manager role would be 0.24% per year. (24/10,000 *100)

6% of coaches are from a minority background in the SFA coaching system. So the chances of someone from a minority background getting a top job would be 1.44% per year (0.24% * 6).

So statistically if we remove things like merit, past history, aptitude, and employ people solely on their own immutable characteristics (i.e. race) then we would have a minority manager every 69 years. (100/1.44)

Now, whislt I am certainly no sciencestition and i'm happy for someone more suited to such high level advanced mathematics to jump in here with any corrections, I do think that this may prove irrefutably that for the sake of intersectionality, inclusiveness, diversity and damn it simply for and all things good and just in the world that Albion need to fire Kevin Harper with immediate effect as Scotland isn't due another minorities manager for 44 years.

#SmashTheSFA #SmashThePatriarchy #Smashy&Nicey

(I did say it was a quiet morning)

surely if 6% of coaches in Scotland are BAME and all things people and ability is equal 6% should also be managers.??????????

i read tony adam's book - legend of the game - he struggled to get opportunities to manage. it's very difficult to get prime managerial jobs for any player, let alone an average one. in this case, it looks like a case of a run of the mill average player struggling just as many others do, and concluding that nothing was coming his way because he was black. we cannot prove or disprove his theory. some people are very switched on to racism - anything bad that happens to them is because of the colour of their skin.

there is no doubt that black players are routinely stereotyped in the english game. they are seen as all brawn and no brain. i have no doubt that this perception makes it more difficult for black players to convince clubs that they have the same level of intelligence and understanding of the game as their white counterparts. look at ole gunnar solskjaer - he gained a reputation as being very intelligent, which helped him get a prime PL job with us. i can't think of too many black players who are considered by fans to be intelligent.

to change this perception, it requires black managers to get big jobs, and be successful. just as the success of ferguson blazed a trail for many average scottish managers to get opportunities they wouldn't have gotten if they were english or welsh, black managers need to show they are as good as anyone else.

their cause is not helped by managerial failures like paul ince complaining that he can't get an A list job because he is black, when the real reason is because he has failed at virtually every club he's been at. john barnes the same.this gives ammo to the bigots who then say that black managers are useless.

Actually bit of a quiet morning so I thought I'd do some maths around this to see if Harper has a point and actually Scotland should have had loads more minority managers but they're all just a bunch of racist scumbags keeping the black man down.

So to overcome my earlier assertion that Harper didn't get the interviews was because he has a weak CV and was indeed all just down to him being black, firstly let's do away with any nonsense of merit-based appointments and imagine everybody in the world is as good as everybody else and we can all just do whatever we choose to - because you gotta live your own experience or some similar such fluffy nonsense.

So in that case...

There are 42 professional clubs across their league system. So there are 42 opportunities for people to be 'boss'.

Let's say every year half of the clubs get new managers. So 24 jobs - it's a fairly high estimate but let's go with that to keep the numbers relatively simple otherwise, I might get a bit lost.

Then in total, there are 10,000 coaches in the SFA system.

For the sake of this argument, they are all as good as each other (only way to ensure everyone gets an even chance is to assume everyone is completely equal) so the chance of any individual coach getting a manager role would be 0.24% per year. (24/10,000 *100)

6% of coaches are from a minority background in the SFA coaching system. So the chances of someone from a minority background getting a top job would be 1.44% per year (0.24% * 6).

So statistically if we remove things like merit, past history, aptitude, and employ people solely on their own immutable characteristics (i.e. race) then we would have a minority manager every 69 years. (100/1.44)

Now, whislt I am certainly no sciencestition and i'm happy for someone more suited to such high level advanced mathematics to jump in here with any corrections, I do think that this may prove irrefutably that for the sake of intersectionality, inclusiveness, diversity and damn it simply for and all things good and just in the world that Albion need to fire Kevin Harper with immediate effect as Scotland isn't due another minorities manager for 44 years.

#SmashTheSFA #SmashThePatriarchy #Smashy&Nicey

(I did say it was a quiet morning)

surely if 6% of coaches in Scotland are BAME and all things people and ability is equal 6% should also be managers.??????????

Aye but there is a difference between the 10000 coaches at all levels i Scotland of which there are 6% BAME and then first team managers of professional clubs of which there are 42 jobs - so very fierce competition for those top jobs that Haroer suggests he's being overlooked for because of his skin colour.

i read tony adam's book - legend of the game - he struggled to get opportunities to manage. it's very difficult to get prime managerial jobs for any player, let alone an average one. in this case, it looks like a case of a run of the mill average player struggling just as many others do, and concluding that nothing was coming his way because he was black. we cannot prove or disprove his theory. some people are very switched on to racism - anything bad that happens to them is because of the colour of their skin.

there is no doubt that black players are routinely stereotyped in the english game. they are seen as all brawn and no brain. i have no doubt that this perception makes it more difficult for black players to convince clubs that they have the same level of intelligence and understanding of the game as their white counterparts. look at ole gunnar solskjaer - he gained a reputation as being very intelligent, which helped him get a prime PL job with us. i can't think of too many black players who are considered by fans to be intelligent.

to change this perception, it requires black managers to get big jobs, and be successful. just as the success of ferguson blazed a trail for many average scottish managers to get opportunities they wouldn't have gotten if they were english or welsh, black managers need to show they are as good as anyone else.

their cause is not helped by managerial failures like paul ince complaining that he can't get an A list job because he is black, when the real reason is because he has failed at virtually every club he's been at. john barnes the same.this gives ammo to the bigots who then say that black managers are useless.

personally I think its a problem { if there is a problem } that will iron itself out as it did with players...clubs want the best no matter what colour or nationality..

Actually bit of a quiet morning so I thought I'd do some maths around this to see if Harper has a point and actually Scotland should have had loads more minority managers but they're all just a bunch of racist scumbags keeping the black man down.

So to overcome my earlier assertion that Harper didn't get the interviews was because he has a weak CV and was indeed all just down to him being black, firstly let's do away with any nonsense of merit-based appointments and imagine everybody in the world is as good as everybody else and we can all just do whatever we choose to - because you gotta live your own experience or some similar such fluffy nonsense.

So in that case...

There are 42 professional clubs across their league system. So there are 42 opportunities for people to be 'boss'.

Let's say every year half of the clubs get new managers. So 24 jobs - it's a fairly high estimate but let's go with that to keep the numbers relatively simple otherwise, I might get a bit lost.

Then in total, there are 10,000 coaches in the SFA system.

For the sake of this argument, they are all as good as each other (only way to ensure everyone gets an even chance is to assume everyone is completely equal) so the chance of any individual coach getting a manager role would be 0.24% per year. (24/10,000 *100)

6% of coaches are from a minority background in the SFA coaching system. So the chances of someone from a minority background getting a top job would be 1.44% per year (0.24% * 6).

So statistically if we remove things like merit, past history, aptitude, and employ people solely on their own immutable characteristics (i.e. race) then we would have a minority manager every 69 years. (100/1.44)

Now, whislt I am certainly no sciencestition and i'm happy for someone more suited to such high level advanced mathematics to jump in here with any corrections, I do think that this may prove irrefutably that for the sake of intersectionality, inclusiveness, diversity and damn it simply for and all things good and just in the world that Albion need to fire Kevin Harper with immediate effect as Scotland isn't due another minorities manager for 44 years.

#SmashTheSFA #SmashThePatriarchy #Smashy&Nicey

(I did say it was a quiet morning)

surely if 6% of coaches in Scotland are BAME and all things people and ability is equal 6% should also be managers.??????????

Aye but there is a difference between the 10000 coaches at all levels i Scotland of which there are 6% BAME and then first team managers of professional clubs of which there are 42 jobs - so very fierce competition for those top jobs that Haroer suggests he's being overlooked for because of his skin colour.

you said if everyone was as good as each other and completely equal..
sorry but that 6% should then carry up the ladder..which means roughly 2 managers ..


.

What's BAME ?
I lived in Scotland for 12 years , admittedly in a remote northern part, but now I think about it I'm sure I never saw a black person there.

i read tony adam's book - legend of the game - he struggled to get opportunities to manage. it's very difficult to get prime managerial jobs for any player, let alone an average one. in this case, it looks like a case of a run of the mill average player struggling just as many others do, and concluding that nothing was coming his way because he was black. we cannot prove or disprove his theory. some people are very switched on to racism - anything bad that happens to them is because of the colour of their skin.

there is no doubt that black players are routinely stereotyped in the english game. they are seen as all brawn and no brain. i have no doubt that this perception makes it more difficult for black players to convince clubs that they have the same level of intelligence and understanding of the game as their white counterparts. look at ole gunnar solskjaer - he gained a reputation as being very intelligent, which helped him get a prime PL job with us. i can't think of too many black players who are considered by fans to be intelligent.

to change this perception, it requires black managers to get big jobs, and be successful. just as the success of ferguson blazed a trail for many average scottish managers to get opportunities they wouldn't have gotten if they were english or welsh, black managers need to show they are as good as anyone else.

their cause is not helped by managerial failures like paul ince complaining that he can't get an A list job because he is black, when the real reason is because he has failed at virtually every club he's been at. john barnes the same.this gives ammo to the bigots who then say that black managers are useless.

personally I think its a problem { if there is a problem } that will iron itself out as it did with players...clubs want the best no matter what colour or nationality..

Exactly this, let’s see how Harper does as a manager.

What's BAME ?
I lived in Scotland for 12 years , admittedly in a remote northern part, but now I think about it I'm sure I never saw a black person there.

BAME...i used it because the OP did.....keeps changing every five minutes with people trying to out PC each other.personally i gave up when it became wrong to say black. only for black music awards to start up a few years later.

Seems to me a sign of the times. There are always other factors involved when things do not go the way certain people want them to. Applicants apply for a role and if they fail to get the job, it can never be because there was a more suitable candidate, has to be more linked to the colour of their skin. If someone commits a crime, look into their background and see how hard life has been for them, and then we can all understand that it was'nt really their fault that they had to break into someone's house and pinch things to fund their drug habit.

Too many people unable or unwilling to take responsibility for themselves and their actions in the modern age. We always have to blame nearly everything on something or someone else. Have to say I had never heard of BAME until I read this thread. I suppose someone somewhere gets paid to decide what is acceptable today but not tomorrow. Are we allowed to call someone a black or a white person any more? I'm honestly confused as to what is socially acceptable these days as the rules seem to change every couple of months.

BAME: Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (used in the UK to refer to people who are not white)

BAME: Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (used in the UK to refer to people who are not white)

yes you said...don't think anyone is having a go at you mate , I certainly wasn't..
its just that it keeps changing what name or abbreviations are in...or out..

BAME apparently has replaced BME which was the abbreviation minus A for Asian..

BAME: Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (used in the UK to refer to people who are not white)

yes you said...don't think anyone is having a go at you mate , I certainly wasn't..
its just that it keeps changing what name or abbreviations are in...or out..

BAME apparently has replaced BME which was the abbreviation minus A for Asian..

Thanks and I didn't take it that way. I just assumed some people didn't realise it had changed (again)

BAME: Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (used in the UK to refer to people who are not white)

yes you said...don't think anyone is having a go at you mate , I certainly wasn't..
its just that it keeps changing what name or abbreviations are in...or out..

BAME apparently has replaced BME which was the abbreviation minus A for Asian..

Thanks and I didn't take it that way. I just assumed some people didn't realise it had changed (again)

Ahh but the real test is how far you can get down the LGBTQI+ acronym there's an awful lot of extra letters tucked away in that plus...

Sol Campbell: Macclesfield Town in talks with ex-Arsenal defender over manager's position
From the sectionMacclesfield


Breaking news

Macclesfield Town are in talks with former Tottenham and Arsenal defender Sol Campbell about their vacant managerial position, reports BBC Radio Manchester.

Campbell made 646 first-team appearances between 1992 and 2011, in addition to winning 73 England caps.

The 44-year-old has not previously managed but recently worked alongside England U21 manager Aidy Boothroyd.

Macclesfield are bottom of League Two having won once in 18 league games.

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surely if 6% of coaches in Scotland are BAME and all things people and ability is equal 6% should also be managers.??????????[/quote]

They are. There is one, and the stats bear this out.

Assuming every Manager is equal, then so would every decision made. Thus every game would be drawn.

surely if 6% of coaches in Scotland are BAME and all things people and ability is equal 6% should also be managers.??????????

They are. There is one, and the stats bear this out.

Assuming every Manager is equal, then so would every decision made. Thus every game would be drawn.[/quote]


shame its not about results and decisions eh..

but 6% of 42 =- 1...close

24 mate..read it again.

Where did you get the -1 from, not that it makes any difference..

24 mate..read it again.

Where did you get the -1 from, not that it makes any difference..

be a good idea to read the post that's being quoted and therefore what a post relates to not just take a little bit of an answer totally out of context...

the minus in front of the 1 was an error...its not 24 either btw.

Not the only error mate..here’s a penny that ain’t gonna drop.