Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:25 pm
Llan_Blue wrote:No mate it’s only racist if you ONLY criticise it and if you go out of you way to find ways to criticise it.
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:25 pm
SirJimmySchoular wrote:BiglicksMcGoo wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:
What ? Using the term Moslem you mean ? That's ridiculous.
As far as the rest of that post is concerned, I'm afraid it's utter nonsense.
I don't know whether Tommy Robinson is a racist, just as I don't know whether anyone else is a racist . I do know, however , that complaining about what he considered to be wrongdoings by Moslems cannot be logically or reasonably construed as racism .
Not all Moslems are the same race, and many of their fiercest critics are from ethnic minorities . Nor is it discriminating or persecuting a group to expect them to be subject to the same laws as others in the country where they live, and similarly it is not unreasonable to examine any belief system which seems contrary to democracy , equality and tolerance. If subscribers to any such belief system say that it isn't contrary to these values and they're telling the truth , well then what exactly is the problem ?
I'll keep this short;
Sir Jimmy, boy in the Cardiff Rangers SC actually converted to Islam, pretty much identical ethnicity to myself yet if I told him I though Islam was lunacy I’m a racist? but if someone of the same ethnicity as myself (but different religion) says Protestantism is shite he’s not a racist. Naw it’s just confusing me more
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:29 pm
ealing_ayatollah wrote:Llan_Blue wrote:No mate it’s only racist if you ONLY criticise it and if you go out of you way to find ways to criticise it.
Genuine question...
In your opinion and following your own logic outlined above, would you also state that Walter Robinson and his team at the Boston Globe racist for breaking the Catholic Church paedophile scandal, seeing as they have never covered similar topics in any other religion?
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:34 pm
Jock wrote:BiglicksMcGoo wrote:Jock wrote:Interesting but confusing. I was raised Church of Scotland, so when a Scottish/British Celtic fan calls me an Orange b*stard he’s racially abusing Scottish/British me? When Trey Parker wrote The Book of Mormon he was racially mocking and parodying Mormons and when I say Scientology is a load of batshit crazy old shite I’m racially abusing Tom Cruise?
Cheers mate think I’ve got it now.
I completely understand why you are confused; a Scot's/Brit calling another Caucasian "Orange B*stard", and calling an Asian Taxi driver a "Paki" equates to one and the same thing in your point of view.
It's a bit like comparing apples and oranges, not really the same thing. Granted both are based on a prejudice of the other person.
But, the difference between calling a Caucasian an "Orange b*stard" and calling an Asian a "Paki", or for that matter calling a Black person a "Black B'stard", are these are based on race.
It's easier for me to ask a question rather than answer every disjointed comparison you've made, but does Tommy Robinson only go after Islam/Muslim peado's, or does he not mind peado's per se as long as they don't have a Quran to hand?
First point you have no idea what colour I am.
Second you haven’t answered anything I asked.
Thirdly Protestantism is a creed.
You really haven’t got a clue, I never mentioned pakis or any other racist term, I was highlighting the disparity in the treatment of the Worlds Religions. If criticising, satirising or mocking Islam is racist then same rules should apply to critics of Protestantism, Catholicism, Seventh Day Adventist’s or Scientology.
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:18 pm
Jock wrote:ealing_ayatollah wrote:Llan_Blue wrote:No mate it’s only racist if you ONLY criticise it and if you go out of you way to find ways to criticise it.
Genuine question...
In your opinion and following your own logic outlined above, would you also state that Walter Robinson and his team at the Boston Globe racist for breaking the Catholic Church paedophile scandal, seeing as they have never covered similar topics in any other religion?
Think I’ll get the popcorn out for his answer, perhaps Biglicksmagoo will explain.
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:28 pm
SirJimmySchoular wrote:As Christians we get constantly attacked by the media, the state and anyone who wants to please the secular establishment. There are of course Christians of various colours, so do we get to claim racism next time some untalented fake socialist "comedian " spits on our religion on the State Media ?
As far as the word which was allegedly spoken by TR goes - if an Indian in Southall uses that word ,( which I can assure you they do a lot), is that racist ? If they slate Islaam, ( which again I can assure you they do) does that also become racism , somehow directed at people of the same race as them ?
If someone says that wife beating , polygamy or converting unbelievers " by the sword" is wrong , do they also become racists , or perhaps intolerant in some way ?
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:55 pm
BiglicksMcGoo wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:As Christians we get constantly attacked by the media, the state and anyone who wants to please the secular establishment. There are of course Christians of various colours, so do we get to claim racism next time some untalented fake socialist "comedian " spits on our religion on the State Media ?
As far as the word which was allegedly spoken by TR goes - if an Indian in Southall uses that word ,( which I can assure you they do a lot), is that racist ? If they slate Islaam, ( which again I can assure you they do) does that also become racism , somehow directed at people of the same race as them ?
If someone says that wife beating , polygamy or converting unbelievers " by the sword" is wrong , do they also become racists , or perhaps intolerant in some way ?
Thank you for answering my question honestly earlier Jimmy, you went up in my estimation.
I get what you saying regarding other ethnic minorities also being prejudice to other ethnic minorities, but without trying to be condescending here, just because someone else does something, doesn't make it right.
Everyone says the Quran says kill the infadels and beat your wives; well I have not read the Quran, but there's certainly plenty of fire and brimstone and burning of non believers in the Old Testament.
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:01 pm
BiglicksMcGoo wrote:Can't say I'm familiar with Walter Robinson, but I'd be willing to make an assumption he's done more with his life than exposing a few Catholic perverts.
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:18 pm
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:23 pm
Jock wrote:And how many people in this country, or indeed in any civilised Western Nation, follow that shite literally? Hundreds of millions of Muslims subscribe to the lunacy in the Koran. Saudi are pumping billions into spreading poisonous Wahhabi doctrine but you think the problem is people who criticise Islam.
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:30 pm
BiglicksMcGoo wrote:Everyone says the Quran says kill the infadels and beat your wives; well I have not read the Quran, but there's certainly plenty of fire and brimstone and burning of non believers in the Old Testament.
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:52 pm
ealing_ayatollah wrote:
OK, but you admittedly don't know that for sure yet you're prepared to appear instantly give him the benefit of the doubt.
Whilst, similarly you are prepared to go straight into TR is racist because he only targets Muslims grooming gangs.
Why?
I'd love to know, explicitly, what is it that you see as justification for taking a light hand of assumption of innocence on one hand and a heavy hand of assumption of guilt on the other?
Hypothetically, if Walter Robinson lets just say for the argument turned out to be an anti-Catholic zealot who had made it his life's work to hunt out bad Catholic's would that make him as bad as TR in your eyes and would you condone him with equal vitriol.
Also, would that anti-catholic bigotry outweigh the good he had done in exposing many, many paedophiles and saving other victims from being abused?
Similarly, if TR was hypothetically to turn around and announce that now he had brought the muslim grooming gangs to light he was going to focus on another area of abuse within another community, would you rethink your position on him as a racist/islamaphobe?
I genuinely want to understand the logic behind the arguments from those who are set up so vehemently against TR - rather than bat them all away as strawmen.
So far, I'm yet to be convinced that there is nothing but empty rhetoric against a man who dared to challenge the 'protected others'. The very premise of which, smacks of the bigotry of low expectations, and is quite frankly, at its most fundamental core belief, inherently racist in and of itself.
Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:50 am
BiglicksMcGoo wrote:Jock wrote:And how many people in this country, or indeed in any civilised Western Nation, follow that shite literally? Hundreds of millions of Muslims subscribe to the lunacy in the Koran. Saudi are pumping billions into spreading poisonous Wahhabi doctrine but you think the problem is people who criticise Islam.
Look over the Irish Sea in the recent past and you'll find plenty of Christian's prepared to kill other Christian's. Maybe not literally but definitely in the name of Religion and a cause.
If you can provide specific examples of Saudi\Wahhabi sponsorship, and how this comes back to Tommy Robinson's hidden agenda of exposing Muslim peado's, I'd do you the courtesy of considering it.
To my mind the Saudi's are more than occupied with containing Iran and the general Shia\Shite rivalry in the ME. Which is another subject.
It's not the criticism of Islam or Muslims, it's the fact a lot of normal people are taken in by a hardcore of extremely bigoted people who have no religion or any kind of moral fiber.
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:51 am
Jock wrote:BiglicksMcGoo wrote:Jock wrote:And how many people in this country, or indeed in any civilised Western Nation, follow that shite literally? Hundreds of millions of Muslims subscribe to the lunacy in the Koran. Saudi are pumping billions into spreading poisonous Wahhabi doctrine but you think the problem is people who criticise Islam.
Look over the Irish Sea in the recent past and you'll find plenty of Christian's prepared to kill other Christian's. Maybe not literally but definitely in the name of Religion and a cause.
If you can provide specific examples of Saudi\Wahhabi sponsorship, and how this comes back to Tommy Robinson's hidden agenda of exposing Muslim peado's, I'd do you the courtesy of considering it.
To my mind the Saudi's are more than occupied with containing Iran and the general Shia\Shite rivalry in the ME. Which is another subject.
It's not the criticism of Islam or Muslims, it's the fact a lot of normal people are taken in by a hardcore of extremely bigoted people who have no religion or any kind of moral fiber.
You haven’t got a handle on Ireland or sectarianism in general, the troubles were about land and culture not religion. How many IRA or UVF murderers attended church, were the IRA fighting to establish a Worldwide Catholic Caliphate?
You dispute Saudi are spending billions establishing Wahhabi Mosques around the World and funding extremist Imans to spread their poison? There’s really no point discussing this with you anymore, you duck every question posed.
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:59 pm
Flyingpostman wrote:Jock wrote:BiglicksMcGoo wrote:Jock wrote:And how many people in this country, or indeed in any civilised Western Nation, follow that shite literally? Hundreds of millions of Muslims subscribe to the lunacy in the Koran. Saudi are pumping billions into spreading poisonous Wahhabi doctrine but you think the problem is people who criticise Islam.
Look over the Irish Sea in the recent past and you'll find plenty of Christian's prepared to kill other Christian's. Maybe not literally but definitely in the name of Religion and a cause.
If you can provide specific examples of Saudi\Wahhabi sponsorship, and how this comes back to Tommy Robinson's hidden agenda of exposing Muslim peado's, I'd do you the courtesy of considering it.
To my mind the Saudi's are more than occupied with containing Iran and the general Shia\Shite rivalry in the ME. Which is another subject.
It's not the criticism of Islam or Muslims, it's the fact a lot of normal people are taken in by a hardcore of extremely bigoted people who have no religion or any kind of moral fiber.
You haven’t got a handle on Ireland or sectarianism in general, the troubles were about land and culture not religion. How many IRA or UVF murderers attended church, were the IRA fighting to establish a Worldwide Catholic Caliphate?
You dispute Saudi are spending billions establishing Wahhabi Mosques around the World and funding extremist Imans to spread their poison? There’s really no point discussing this with you anymore, you duck every question posed.
Don't agree with a lot you say on this forum mate but your spot on about the Saudi's .
They and their Wahhabi sect are a huge driver in violence against non Muslims and promoting extremist ideology , would recommend anyone watches these two documentaries https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02gyz6b or https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04b183c
Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:02 pm
BiglicksMcGoo wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:As Christians we get constantly attacked by the media, the state and anyone who wants to please the secular establishment. There are of course Christians of various colours, so do we get to claim racism next time some untalented fake socialist "comedian " spits on our religion on the State Media ?
As far as the word which was allegedly spoken by TR goes - if an Indian in Southall uses that word ,( which I can assure you they do a lot), is that racist ? If they slate Islaam, ( which again I can assure you they do) does that also become racism , somehow directed at people of the same race as them ?
If someone says that wife beating , polygamy or converting unbelievers " by the sword" is wrong , do they also become racists , or perhaps intolerant in some way ?
Thank you for answering my question honestly earlier Jimmy, you went up in my estimation.
I get what you saying regarding other ethnic minorities also being prejudice to other ethnic minorities, but without trying to be condescending here, just because someone else does something, doesn't make it right.
Everyone says the Quran says kill the infadels and beat your wives; well I have not read the Quran, but there's certainly plenty of fire and brimstone and burning of non believers in the Old Testament.
Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:07 pm
Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:08 pm
Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:39 pm
Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:47 pm
rumpo kid wrote:Whose this Magoo bloke? Comes across as one of those patronising lefty nitwits. Probably wears elbow patches.
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:26 am
Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:18 pm
rumpo kid wrote:No. Someone else invented elbow patches.
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:20 pm
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:52 pm
BiglicksMcGoo wrote:there's no real logic in basing your entirely hypothetical argument on Walter and the Boston Globle being anti-Catholic and Tommy Robinson being some kind of modern day Saint?
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:38 am
SirJimmySchoular wrote:Suggesting not " suggestion" but it won't let me edit that
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:45 am
BiglicksMcGoo wrote:ealing_ayatollah wrote:
OK, but you admittedly don't know that for sure yet you're prepared to appear instantly give him the benefit of the doubt.
Whilst, similarly you are prepared to go straight into TR is racist because he only targets Muslims grooming gangs.
Why?
I'd love to know, explicitly, what is it that you see as justification for taking a light hand of assumption of innocence on one hand and a heavy hand of assumption of guilt on the other?
Hypothetically, if Walter Robinson lets just say for the argument turned out to be an anti-Catholic zealot who had made it his life's work to hunt out bad Catholic's would that make him as bad as TR in your eyes and would you condone him with equal vitriol.
Also, would that anti-catholic bigotry outweigh the good he had done in exposing many, many paedophiles and saving other victims from being abused?
Similarly, if TR was hypothetically to turn around and announce that now he had brought the muslim grooming gangs to light he was going to focus on another area of abuse within another community, would you rethink your position on him as a racist/islamaphobe?
I genuinely want to understand the logic behind the arguments from those who are set up so vehemently against TR - rather than bat them all away as strawmen.
So far, I'm yet to be convinced that there is nothing but empty rhetoric against a man who dared to challenge the 'protected others'. The very premise of which, smacks of the bigotry of low expectations, and is quite frankly, at its most fundamental core belief, inherently racist in and of itself.
Unless there's some big scandal with the Boston Globe and the quality of it's journalism, versus Tommy Robinson and his proven reputation for being a famous racist\fraudster\contempt of court jailbird\founder of the Saesneg Defence League.
Yes I'm more prepared to give Walter the benefit of the doubt.
When has Tommy Robinson done anything that does not directly benefit Tommy Robinson or furthered his agenda?
You say you want to understand people's logic for doubting Tommy Robinson, but there's no real logic in basing your entirely hypothetical argument on Walter and the Boston Globle being anti-Catholic and Tommy Robinson being some kind of modern day Saint?
How many peado's has he uncovered (one's not already on trial)? How many have led to prosecutions?, How many jail sentences and deportation orders? Strawman agreements indeed without any tangible proof.
Why do you possibly think the authorities would not want to stir up racial tensions before locking up a large peadofile ring who happen to be Muslim?
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:36 am