' Who the hell signed these two players? '

Agent Willie Mckay sons?

Who the hell signed these two players for Cardiff City?

We were suppose to not know Willie Mckay?

They were both released players one even released from Scottish club Airdrie, yet we gave them both full contracts and were not good enough for DVP team, never mid first team, now both struggling with a non league club and and League 2 club? ?

Apparently we have signed other players from Agent Mckay who have also failed in our DVP team, waiting for the names.

Surely something not right here?


Questions need to be asked here as well?

McKay twins Jack and Paul have joined Chesterfield and Morecambe on loan respectively and played a combined 22 minutes for the National League and League Two clubs since their January moves.

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Something is wrong that is completely obvious.

Something is wrong that is completely obvious.

Tony, I think it runs much deeper than just Emiliano Sala with Mckay and our club? ?

Something is wrong that is completely obvious.

Tony, I think it runs much deeper than just Emiliano Sala with Mckay and our club? ?

Warnock signed them

Something is wrong that is completely obvious.

Tony, I think it runs much deeper than just Emiliano Sala with Mckay and our club? ?

Warnock signed them

Yes Wez,I know that, but nothing get signed off unless Choo, Dalman or Tan are involved with any signings thats a fact.

something stinks here as well

From what I can make out, these two young players were not particularly that "skilled",,,, an embarrassing situation, given what has sadly come to pass recently,,,, & a situation that requires a full explanation.

This matter isn't going to go away anytime soon either, imo.

I remember when we released about 15 players from DVP side we quickly had to fill it again. Maybe these were just cheap options? Signed with no intention of them ever playing first team, purely 'bums on seats'

Something is wrong that is completely obvious.

Tony, I think it runs much deeper than just Emiliano Sala with Mckay and our club? ?

Warnock signed them

Yes Wez,I know that, but nothing get signed off unless Choo, Dalman or Tan are involved with any signings thats a fact.

Our favourite west ham fan says warnock has been doing a Malky and is going to be found out ,I take most things he says with a pinch of salt tho

Life is nothing like football manager on the PC. It seems if you don't appease agents you become severely disadvantaged when coming to signing their players. The FA are the useless ones for allowing this farce.

Agent Willie Mckay sons?

Who the hell signed these two players for Cardiff City?

We were suppose to not know Willie Mckay?

They were both released players one even released from Scottish club Airdrie, yet we gave them both full contracts and were not good enough for DVP team, never mid first team, now both struggling with a non league club and and League 2 club? ?

Apparently we have signed other players from Agent Mckay who have also failed in our DVP team, waiting for the names.

Surely something not right here?


Questions need to be asked here as well?

McKay twins Jack and Paul have joined Chesterfield and Morecambe on loan respectively and played a combined 22 minutes for the National League and League Two clubs since their January moves.

AN excellent point raised by Martin Samuel yesterday, a point which appeared to be largely ignored in the vitriolic response to his article.

I remember when we released about 15 players from DVP side we quickly had to fill it again. Maybe these were just cheap options? Signed with no intention of them ever playing first team, purely 'bums on seats'

Thats just it though; that's local kids' privelidge in days gone by. Now even that we have to source personnel from an agent!

From what I can make out, these two young players were not particularly that "skilled",,,, an embarrassing situation, given what has sadly come to pass recently,,,, & a situation that requires a full explanation.

This matter isn't going to go away anytime soon either, imo.

Thats my feelings on the situation Rick, plus it means we have been dealing with Mckay for quite a while, I have been told we know him very well? ?

I remember when we released about 15 players from DVP side we quickly had to fill it again. Maybe these were just cheap options? Signed with no intention of them ever playing first team, purely 'bums on seats'

Thats just it though; that's local kids' privelidge in days gone by. Now even that we have to source personnel from an agent!

True. But it's also professional football. Doesn't work like it used to.

I remember when we released about 15 players from DVP side we quickly had to fill it again. Maybe these were just cheap options? Signed with no intention of them ever playing first team, purely 'bums on seats'

Why would we just put bums on seats costing us money when we had just cleared out better players than these two and look who's sons they are ? ? ?

Surely the question is, how well do we know Mckay really?

I remember when we released about 15 players from DVP side we quickly had to fill it again. Maybe these were just cheap options? Signed with no intention of them ever playing first team, purely 'bums on seats'

Why would we just put bums on seats costing us money when we had just cleared out better players than these two and look who's sons they are ? ? ?



Surely the question is, how well do we know Mckay really?

I'm not denying that.

I vaguely remember them cutting back on the squad. Getting rid of players not deemed good enough. It's a slow process developing the next crop. 2 years down the line and we're only just seeing the U18s do ok. In the meantime we've needed players to fulfil fixtures. I'm not denying the links these 2 have and yes, their dad probably played a part in the deal. However we'll never know the details. I'll try and find a news story of when they signed.

Just making the point that not everything is a conspiracy. There would be no questions asked if it want for the tragedy.

Agent Willie Mckay sons?

Who the hell signed these two players for Cardiff City?

We were suppose to not know Willie Mckay?

They were both released players one even released from Scottish club Airdrie, yet we gave them both full contracts and were not good enough for DVP team, never mid first team, now both struggling with a non league club and and League 2 club? ?

Apparently we have signed other players from Agent Mckay who have also failed in our DVP team, waiting for the names.

Surely something not right here?


Questions need to be asked here as well?

McKay twins Jack and Paul have joined Chesterfield and Morecambe on loan respectively and played a combined 22 minutes for the National League and League Two clubs since their January moves.

Do we really want to go there ?
I'm sure people scratch each other's backs at some level in all sorts of businesses and whether we like that or not,we should bear in mind the potential for undermining the future prospects for the club and team.
I accept that there would come a point where you'd have to speak out if there were some serious criminal behaviour but at the same time ," there are some things it's better for a Minister not to know "

There was go. I believe that article makes my point well.

"Others like former Leeds twins Jack and Paul McKay, Ibrahim Meite and Ciaron Brown — brought in from non-league — as well as Tyrone Duffus and Ogo Obi (formerly with other Premier League sides) have arrived to plug gaps, but between them none have made a league start for Cardiff.

Slow going then, but Warnock knew that when he began the clearout. The rewards are to come further down the line."



Cardiff City's youth overhaul analysed, their struggling Under-23s and the teenagers offering real hope for the future


"I don't feel the Under-23s has solved the problem it was brought in for," surmised Neil Warnock less than two months into his Cardiff City reign.

Not content with giving the Bluebirds' first team a much-needed shot in the arm after his October 2016 appointment, the veteran manager had his sights set on a complete overhaul of the youth set-up.

Warnock being Warnock, there were immediate changes.

Four days later, Under-23s manager Kevin Nicholson left the club. First team coaches Kevin Blackwell, Ronnie Jepson and James Rowberry were handed a more prominent role in youth development.

A week or so after that, Craig Bellamy rejoined the club as player development manager and Jarred Harvey took over the Under-23s set-up, joined in July 2017 by former Cardiff defender Andy Legg.

In the time since December 2016, 16 players under the age of 24 have left Cardiff City, either by having their contracts terminated or by mutual consent.

So, two years on, how much has actually changed?

Cardiff City youth guru Craig Bellamy (Image: Huw Evans Picture Agency)
The exodus

Nicholson cited that his departure was due to an "internal restructuring exercise".

The former Derby and Exeter coach wasn't the only one to leave during that turbulent time for the club's youth structure.

Semi Ajayi, Jamie Bird, Luke O'Reilly, Deji Oshilaja, Robbie Patten, Theo Wharton, Declan John, Oliver Byrne, Macauley Southam, Ashley Baker, Tom James, Tommy O'Sullivan, Eli Phipps, David Tutonda, Rollin Menayese and Jordan Blaise — that's the giant list of former Cardiff City Under-23 players to have departed in the past two years.

"I don't think players get anything out of their games," said Warnock, who wanted to reduce the average age of the Under-23s side.

He felt there were too many players aged 21, 22 or 23 taking up spots in the system when they were never going to make his first XI.

“We used to have the reserve leagues and play the pros who weren't in the first team with the young lads and you used to have competitive games. But it's almost like a five-a-side now – and unfortunately for these young lads they've been failed by the system," said Warock.

Neil Warnock at his first press conference with Club Chairman Mehmet Dalman.
“It's not a new thing from my point of view, I've written to the League Manager's Association and voiced my concerns to the PFA regarding it.

“I don't see the logic of it, and all the coaching that's involved, if we're not getting the players through.

“I don't think it's helping us and I don't think it's giving the younger players, the 18-year-olds, the right opportunities either.

“The lads in the 18s have to come up now, they have to have opportunities. Having so many Under-23s that aren't going to get in the first-team, I felt it needed restructuring, for the long-term future.”

The next Ramsey

The reason for the overhaul was simply that Warnock (and Bellamy) shared the frustrations of many Cardiff fans, who haven't seen a homegrown player graduate through the ranks into the first team since the side of Aaron Ramsey, Joe Ledley and Chris Gunter.

You might include Adam Matthews and Declan John in that bracket, but neither made a significant mark on the first team.

And it seems Wales boss Ryan Giggs isn't entirely comfortable with Cardiff's production line either.

"(Graham Potter) is doing a great job... Swansea are getting their heart and soul back because I think it's important to have local players," said the Wales boss last month.

"We just need Cardiff to start doing that now!"

Joe Ralls and Kadeem Harris came through the Cardiff Under-23s, but were signed from Farnborough and Wycombe respectively when they were still developing.

Joe Ralls, Kadeem Harris and Declan John all broke into the first team at one stage
Rhys Healey, another who was not originally produced by Cardiff's academy but developed by them, has been the biggest recent hope but he has just turned 24 and would appear to have found his level in League One or League Two.

The next stage of the Warnock and Bellamy overhaul was to promote Under-18s such as midfielder James Waite, forward Mark Harris and right-back Cameron Coxe into the Under-23s side.

Warnock has picked Waite to travel with the first-team squad in recent weeks and he played in pre-season at Rotherham, but he's not yet been included in the matchday 18.

Coxe is a player many still have high hopes for at Cardiff. Still just 19, he made his first team debut in last season's League Cup defeat to Burton but hasn't featured since and may benefit from a loan move.

Harris broke into the first-team picture at the end of the 2016/17 season when a mid-table Cardiff had little to play for, but his progress stalled.

James Waite in action for Cardiff City Under-23s versus Watford (Image: Carl Robertson (@ciacIMAGES), Cardiff City FC.)
The Welshman joined Newport County on loan in the summer but hasn't started a league game for the Exiles since their 6-0 defeat by Yeovil in mid-September.

Others like former Leeds twins Jack and Paul McKay, Ibrahim Meite and Ciaron Brown — brought in from non-league — as well as Tyrone Duffus and Ogo Obi (formerly with other Premier League sides) have arrived to plug gaps, but between them none have made a league start for Cardiff.

Slow going then, but Warnock knew that when he began the clearout. The rewards are to come further down the line.

The reality

Cardiff City's Under-23s compete in the Professional Development League, which replaced the Under-21 Professional Development League 2 from 2016/17, bringing together 21 Under-23 sides from 'Category Two' academies.

The teams are split into two regional divisions with a national play-off deciding who is named overall champions.

The competition is one academy tier below Premier League Two where the 24 'Category One' academy clubs play — including Swansea City's successful Under-23 side — and there is no promotion or relegation.

Becoming a 'Category One' academy is the only way Cardiff's youngsters could rub shoulders with Manchester United, Man City, Liverpool et al.

Not that their form has been anything to write home about — perhaps an expected byproduct of the club's long-term approach.

The Bluebirds youngsters have been competing in the south division of PDL for the past two and a half seasons, finishing third in 2016/17 and ninth in 2017/18. They currently sit seventh with just six wins since February.

The results in a tricky eight-month period

All Professional Development League fixtures unless stated

February 19 - Bristol City 1-0 Cardiff U23s

February 22 - Cardiff U23s 0-3 Blackburn (Premier League Cup)

March 8 - Cardiff U23s 2-1 Ipswich

March 13 - Crystal Palace 4-0 Cardiff U23s

March 19 - Cardiff U23s 0-3 Bolton

March 23 - Leeds 3-0 Cardiff U23s

March 29 - Colchester 0-3 Cardiff U23s

March 31 - Watford 0-4 Cardiff U23s (Premier League Cup)

April 4 - Ipswich 2-1 Cardiff U23s

April 9 - Cardiff U23s 0-2 Birmingham

April 12 - Cardiff U23s 0-1 Colchester

April 16 - Barnsley 1-1 Cardiff U23s

April 23 - Cardiff U23s 0-5 Nott'm Forest

I would have thought that as the McKay brothers were signed for the Academy then James McCarthy as Academy Manager would have had a say in this. When you consider that both these players were signed for the u23 after a 1 month trial then surely Andy Legg as U23 Manager would have had a say.

After NW took over as Manager I remember him saying that the club were looking to "Bolster" the U23 squad because to many of the players being used were u18 and that it wasn't good for them.

It may well be that NW has had some input but for me I cannot believe that the signing of Academy players, given the level of their wages, is something that VT has to sign off on. The annual budget for the academy yes but not players at u23.

If however an U23 player gets promoted to the first team squad then it will be likely that he will get a new contract, and a wage increase, but these players are nothing more than development players.

And they come and go a lot more often than many of us would think.

Agent Willie Mckay sons?

Who the hell signed these two players for Cardiff City?

We were suppose to not know Willie Mckay?

They were both released players one even released from Scottish club Airdrie, yet we gave them both full contracts and were not good enough for DVP team, never mid first team, now both struggling with a non league club and and League 2 club? ?

Apparently we have signed other players from Agent Mckay who have also failed in our DVP team, waiting for the names.

Surely something not right here?


Questions need to be asked here as well?

McKay twins Jack and Paul have joined Chesterfield and Morecambe on loan respectively and played a combined 22 minutes for the National League and League Two clubs since their January moves.

Do we really want to go there ?
I'm sure people scratch each other's backs at some level in all sorts of businesses and whether we like that or not,we should bear in mind the potential for undermining the future prospects for the club and team.
I accept that there would come a point where you'd have to speak out if there were some serious criminal behaviour but at the same time ," there are some things it's better for a Minister not to know "

Do we really want to go there? I think the answer to that is now irrelevant,,, because other organizations, & agency's certainly will,,,, after all, they are dealing and investigating the deaths of two people. It already looks like law enforcement are getting involved, & I can only see this escalating,,, as time moves on.

Agent Willie Mckay sons?

Who the hell signed these two players for Cardiff City?

We were suppose to not know Willie Mckay?

They were both released players one even released from Scottish club Airdrie, yet we gave them both full contracts and were not good enough for DVP team, never mid first team, now both struggling with a non league club and and League 2 club? ?

Apparently we have signed other players from Agent Mckay who have also failed in our DVP team, waiting for the names.

Surely something not right here?


Questions need to be asked here as well?

McKay twins Jack and Paul have joined Chesterfield and Morecambe on loan respectively and played a combined 22 minutes for the National League and League Two clubs since their January moves.

Do we really want to go there ?
I'm sure people scratch each other's backs at some level in all sorts of businesses and whether we like that or not,we should bear in mind the potential for undermining the future prospects for the club and team.
I accept that there would come a point where you'd have to speak out if there were some serious criminal behaviour but at the same time ," there are some things it's better for a Minister not to know "

Yes we do, we want the whole truth, everything out in the open SURELY? ?

Agent Willie Mckay sons?

Who the hell signed these two players for Cardiff City?

We were suppose to not know Willie Mckay?

They were both released players one even released from Scottish club Airdrie, yet we gave them both full contracts and were not good enough for DVP team, never mid first team, now both struggling with a non league club and and League 2 club? ?

Apparently we have signed other players from Agent Mckay who have also failed in our DVP team, waiting for the names.

Surely something not right here?


Questions need to be asked here as well?

McKay twins Jack and Paul have joined Chesterfield and Morecambe on loan respectively and played a combined 22 minutes for the National League and League Two clubs since their January moves.

Do we really want to go there ?
I'm sure people scratch each other's backs at some level in all sorts of businesses and whether we like that or not,we should bear in mind the potential for undermining the future prospects for the club and team.
I accept that there would come a point where you'd have to speak out if there were some serious criminal behaviour but at the same time ," there are some things it's better for a Minister not to know "

Do we really want to go there? I think the answer to that is now irrelevant,,, because other organizations, & agency's certainly will,,,, after all, they are dealing and investigating the deaths of two people. It already looks like law enforcement are getting involved, & I can only see this escalating,,, as time moves on.

Spot on Rick


We want everything out in the open on all sides, surely thats what everyone should want? ?

You're probably right, but I hope we can move on from it now.
It would be dissapointing if we end up in League One because we tore ourselves apart over off field stuff again.

There was go. I believe that article makes my point well.

"Others like former Leeds twins Jack and Paul McKay, Ibrahim Meite and Ciaron Brown — brought in from non-league — as well as Tyrone Duffus and Ogo Obi (formerly with other Premier League sides) have arrived to plug gaps, but between them none have made a league start for Cardiff.

Slow going then, but Warnock knew that when he began the clearout. The rewards are to come further down the line."



Cardiff City's youth overhaul analysed, their struggling Under-23s and the teenagers offering real hope for the future


"I don't feel the Under-23s has solved the problem it was brought in for," surmised Neil Warnock less than two months into his Cardiff City reign.

Not content with giving the Bluebirds' first team a much-needed shot in the arm after his October 2016 appointment, the veteran manager had his sights set on a complete overhaul of the youth set-up.

Warnock being Warnock, there were immediate changes.

Four days later, Under-23s manager Kevin Nicholson left the club. First team coaches Kevin Blackwell, Ronnie Jepson and James Rowberry were handed a more prominent role in youth development.

A week or so after that, Craig Bellamy rejoined the club as player development manager and Jarred Harvey took over the Under-23s set-up, joined in July 2017 by former Cardiff defender Andy Legg.

In the time since December 2016, 16 players under the age of 24 have left Cardiff City, either by having their contracts terminated or by mutual consent.

So, two years on, how much has actually changed?

Cardiff City youth guru Craig Bellamy (Image: Huw Evans Picture Agency)
The exodus

Nicholson cited that his departure was due to an "internal restructuring exercise".

The former Derby and Exeter coach wasn't the only one to leave during that turbulent time for the club's youth structure.

Semi Ajayi, Jamie Bird, Luke O'Reilly, Deji Oshilaja, Robbie Patten, Theo Wharton, Declan John, Oliver Byrne, Macauley Southam, Ashley Baker, Tom James, Tommy O'Sullivan, Eli Phipps, David Tutonda, Rollin Menayese and Jordan Blaise — that's the giant list of former Cardiff City Under-23 players to have departed in the past two years.

"I don't think players get anything out of their games," said Warnock, who wanted to reduce the average age of the Under-23s side.

He felt there were too many players aged 21, 22 or 23 taking up spots in the system when they were never going to make his first XI.

“We used to have the reserve leagues and play the pros who weren't in the first team with the young lads and you used to have competitive games. But it's almost like a five-a-side now – and unfortunately for these young lads they've been failed by the system," said Warock.

Neil Warnock at his first press conference with Club Chairman Mehmet Dalman.
“It's not a new thing from my point of view, I've written to the League Manager's Association and voiced my concerns to the PFA regarding it.

“I don't see the logic of it, and all the coaching that's involved, if we're not getting the players through.

“I don't think it's helping us and I don't think it's giving the younger players, the 18-year-olds, the right opportunities either.

“The lads in the 18s have to come up now, they have to have opportunities. Having so many Under-23s that aren't going to get in the first-team, I felt it needed restructuring, for the long-term future.”

The next Ramsey

The reason for the overhaul was simply that Warnock (and Bellamy) shared the frustrations of many Cardiff fans, who haven't seen a homegrown player graduate through the ranks into the first team since the side of Aaron Ramsey, Joe Ledley and Chris Gunter.

You might include Adam Matthews and Declan John in that bracket, but neither made a significant mark on the first team.

And it seems Wales boss Ryan Giggs isn't entirely comfortable with Cardiff's production line either.

"(Graham Potter) is doing a great job... Swansea are getting their heart and soul back because I think it's important to have local players," said the Wales boss last month.

"We just need Cardiff to start doing that now!"

Joe Ralls and Kadeem Harris came through the Cardiff Under-23s, but were signed from Farnborough and Wycombe respectively when they were still developing.

Joe Ralls, Kadeem Harris and Declan John all broke into the first team at one stage
Rhys Healey, another who was not originally produced by Cardiff's academy but developed by them, has been the biggest recent hope but he has just turned 24 and would appear to have found his level in League One or League Two.

The next stage of the Warnock and Bellamy overhaul was to promote Under-18s such as midfielder James Waite, forward Mark Harris and right-back Cameron Coxe into the Under-23s side.

Warnock has picked Waite to travel with the first-team squad in recent weeks and he played in pre-season at Rotherham, but he's not yet been included in the matchday 18.

Coxe is a player many still have high hopes for at Cardiff. Still just 19, he made his first team debut in last season's League Cup defeat to Burton but hasn't featured since and may benefit from a loan move.

Harris broke into the first-team picture at the end of the 2016/17 season when a mid-table Cardiff had little to play for, but his progress stalled.

James Waite in action for Cardiff City Under-23s versus Watford (Image: Carl Robertson (@ciacIMAGES), Cardiff City FC.)
The Welshman joined Newport County on loan in the summer but hasn't started a league game for the Exiles since their 6-0 defeat by Yeovil in mid-September.

Others like former Leeds twins Jack and Paul McKay, Ibrahim Meite and Ciaron Brown — brought in from non-league — as well as Tyrone Duffus and Ogo Obi (formerly with other Premier League sides) have arrived to plug gaps, but between them none have made a league start for Cardiff.

Slow going then, but Warnock knew that when he began the clearout. The rewards are to come further down the line.

The reality

Cardiff City's Under-23s compete in the Professional Development League, which replaced the Under-21 Professional Development League 2 from 2016/17, bringing together 21 Under-23 sides from 'Category Two' academies.

The teams are split into two regional divisions with a national play-off deciding who is named overall champions.

The competition is one academy tier below Premier League Two where the 24 'Category One' academy clubs play — including Swansea City's successful Under-23 side — and there is no promotion or relegation.

Becoming a 'Category One' academy is the only way Cardiff's youngsters could rub shoulders with Manchester United, Man City, Liverpool et al.

Not that their form has been anything to write home about — perhaps an expected byproduct of the club's long-term approach.

The Bluebirds youngsters have been competing in the south division of PDL for the past two and a half seasons, finishing third in 2016/17 and ninth in 2017/18. They currently sit seventh with just six wins since February.

The results in a tricky eight-month period

All Professional Development League fixtures unless stated

February 19 - Bristol City 1-0 Cardiff U23s

February 22 - Cardiff U23s 0-3 Blackburn (Premier League Cup)

March 8 - Cardiff U23s 2-1 Ipswich

March 13 - Crystal Palace 4-0 Cardiff U23s

March 19 - Cardiff U23s 0-3 Bolton

March 23 - Leeds 3-0 Cardiff U23s

March 29 - Colchester 0-3 Cardiff U23s

March 31 - Watford 0-4 Cardiff U23s (Premier League Cup)

April 4 - Ipswich 2-1 Cardiff U23s

April 9 - Cardiff U23s 0-2 Birmingham

April 12 - Cardiff U23s 0-1 Colchester

April 16 - Barnsley 1-1 Cardiff U23s

April 23 - Cardiff U23s 0-5 Nott'm Forest

My point is look who's sons they are? ? ?


Why would we just put bums on seats costing us money when we had just cleared out better players than these two and look who's sons they are ? ? ?



Surely the question is, how well do we know Mckay really?

f*cking hell, there are some here who want to sweep some stuff under the carpet, tut tut

Something is wrong that is completely obvious.

Tony, I think it runs much deeper than just Emiliano Sala with Mckay and our club? ?

Warnock signed them

Yes Wez,I know that, but nothing get signed off unless Choo, Dalman or Tan are involved with any signings thats a fact.

Our favourite west ham fan says warnock has been doing a Malky and is going to be found out ,I take most things he says with a pinch of salt tho

Wez,

I am a massive massive Neil Warnock fan and was with Malky as well, but for me Warnock is up there with the best

Not having another manager blamed again, others from our club over see the managers transfers,paper work and sign it all off a fact.

Warnock will not become the scapegoat goat in my eyes.


I blame Mckay but also he has been dealing with our club for quite a while a long time before Emiliano Sala came on the scene.

Agent Willie Mckay sons?

Who the hell signed these two players for Cardiff City?

We were suppose to not know Willie Mckay?

They were both released players one even released from Scottish club Airdrie, yet we gave them both full contracts and were not good enough for DVP team, never mid first team, now both struggling with a non league club and and League 2 club? ?

Apparently we have signed other players from Agent Mckay who have also failed in our DVP team, waiting for the names.

Surely something not right here?


Questions need to be asked here as well?

McKay twins Jack and Paul have joined Chesterfield and Morecambe on loan respectively and played a combined 22 minutes for the National League and League Two clubs since their January moves.

Do we really want to go there ?
I'm sure people scratch each other's backs at some level in all sorts of businesses and whether we like that or not,we should bear in mind the potential for undermining the future prospects for the club and team.
I accept that there would come a point where you'd have to speak out if there were some serious criminal behaviour but at the same time ," there are some things it's better for a Minister not to know "

Do we really want to go there? I think the answer to that is now irrelevant,,, because other organizations, & agency's certainly will,,,, after all, they are dealing and investigating the deaths of two people. It already looks like law enforcement are getting involved, & I can only see this escalating,,, as time moves on.

Spot on Rick


We want everything out in the open on all sides, surely thats what everyone should want? ?

Annis , it will take a long time for the full true story to come out into the open - certainly not before all the ongoing legal matters are sorted.

Out of interest , what would your opinion of Neil Warnock be if he had insisted on dealing with Willie McKay and his sons despite being told not to , adopting a "back me or sack me" attitude?

You're probably right, but I hope we can move on from it now.
It would be dissapointing if we end up in League One because we tore ourselves apart over off field stuff again.

I fear the worst and I can see Mckay thankfully booted out of football(but will come back under a new company ) BUT I sadly see City dragged by the media through the mud and us getting penalised along the way

There was go. I believe that article makes my point well.

"Others like former Leeds twins Jack and Paul McKay, Ibrahim Meite and Ciaron Brown — brought in from non-league — as well as Tyrone Duffus and Ogo Obi (formerly with other Premier League sides) have arrived to plug gaps, but between them none have made a league start for Cardiff.

Slow going then, but Warnock knew that when he began the clearout. The rewards are to come further down the line."



Cardiff City's youth overhaul analysed, their struggling Under-23s and the teenagers offering real hope for the future


"I don't feel the Under-23s has solved the problem it was brought in for," surmised Neil Warnock less than two months into his Cardiff City reign.

Not content with giving the Bluebirds' first team a much-needed shot in the arm after his October 2016 appointment, the veteran manager had his sights set on a complete overhaul of the youth set-up.

Warnock being Warnock, there were immediate changes.

Four days later, Under-23s manager Kevin Nicholson left the club. First team coaches Kevin Blackwell, Ronnie Jepson and James Rowberry were handed a more prominent role in youth development.

A week or so after that, Craig Bellamy rejoined the club as player development manager and Jarred Harvey took over the Under-23s set-up, joined in July 2017 by former Cardiff defender Andy Legg.

In the time since December 2016, 16 players under the age of 24 have left Cardiff City, either by having their contracts terminated or by mutual consent.

So, two years on, how much has actually changed?

Cardiff City youth guru Craig Bellamy (Image: Huw Evans Picture Agency)
The exodus

Nicholson cited that his departure was due to an "internal restructuring exercise".

The former Derby and Exeter coach wasn't the only one to leave during that turbulent time for the club's youth structure.

Semi Ajayi, Jamie Bird, Luke O'Reilly, Deji Oshilaja, Robbie Patten, Theo Wharton, Declan John, Oliver Byrne, Macauley Southam, Ashley Baker, Tom James, Tommy O'Sullivan, Eli Phipps, David Tutonda, Rollin Menayese and Jordan Blaise — that's the giant list of former Cardiff City Under-23 players to have departed in the past two years.

"I don't think players get anything out of their games," said Warnock, who wanted to reduce the average age of the Under-23s side.

He felt there were too many players aged 21, 22 or 23 taking up spots in the system when they were never going to make his first XI.

“We used to have the reserve leagues and play the pros who weren't in the first team with the young lads and you used to have competitive games. But it's almost like a five-a-side now – and unfortunately for these young lads they've been failed by the system," said Warock.

Neil Warnock at his first press conference with Club Chairman Mehmet Dalman.
“It's not a new thing from my point of view, I've written to the League Manager's Association and voiced my concerns to the PFA regarding it.

“I don't see the logic of it, and all the coaching that's involved, if we're not getting the players through.

“I don't think it's helping us and I don't think it's giving the younger players, the 18-year-olds, the right opportunities either.

“The lads in the 18s have to come up now, they have to have opportunities. Having so many Under-23s that aren't going to get in the first-team, I felt it needed restructuring, for the long-term future.”

The next Ramsey

The reason for the overhaul was simply that Warnock (and Bellamy) shared the frustrations of many Cardiff fans, who haven't seen a homegrown player graduate through the ranks into the first team since the side of Aaron Ramsey, Joe Ledley and Chris Gunter.

You might include Adam Matthews and Declan John in that bracket, but neither made a significant mark on the first team.

And it seems Wales boss Ryan Giggs isn't entirely comfortable with Cardiff's production line either.

"(Graham Potter) is doing a great job... Swansea are getting their heart and soul back because I think it's important to have local players," said the Wales boss last month.

"We just need Cardiff to start doing that now!"

Joe Ralls and Kadeem Harris came through the Cardiff Under-23s, but were signed from Farnborough and Wycombe respectively when they were still developing.

Joe Ralls, Kadeem Harris and Declan John all broke into the first team at one stage
Rhys Healey, another who was not originally produced by Cardiff's academy but developed by them, has been the biggest recent hope but he has just turned 24 and would appear to have found his level in League One or League Two.

The next stage of the Warnock and Bellamy overhaul was to promote Under-18s such as midfielder James Waite, forward Mark Harris and right-back Cameron Coxe into the Under-23s side.

Warnock has picked Waite to travel with the first-team squad in recent weeks and he played in pre-season at Rotherham, but he's not yet been included in the matchday 18.

Coxe is a player many still have high hopes for at Cardiff. Still just 19, he made his first team debut in last season's League Cup defeat to Burton but hasn't featured since and may benefit from a loan move.

Harris broke into the first-team picture at the end of the 2016/17 season when a mid-table Cardiff had little to play for, but his progress stalled.

James Waite in action for Cardiff City Under-23s versus Watford (Image: Carl Robertson (@ciacIMAGES), Cardiff City FC.)
The Welshman joined Newport County on loan in the summer but hasn't started a league game for the Exiles since their 6-0 defeat by Yeovil in mid-September.

Others like former Leeds twins Jack and Paul McKay, Ibrahim Meite and Ciaron Brown — brought in from non-league — as well as Tyrone Duffus and Ogo Obi (formerly with other Premier League sides) have arrived to plug gaps, but between them none have made a league start for Cardiff.

Slow going then, but Warnock knew that when he began the clearout. The rewards are to come further down the line.

The reality

Cardiff City's Under-23s compete in the Professional Development League, which replaced the Under-21 Professional Development League 2 from 2016/17, bringing together 21 Under-23 sides from 'Category Two' academies.

The teams are split into two regional divisions with a national play-off deciding who is named overall champions.

The competition is one academy tier below Premier League Two where the 24 'Category One' academy clubs play — including Swansea City's successful Under-23 side — and there is no promotion or relegation.

Becoming a 'Category One' academy is the only way Cardiff's youngsters could rub shoulders with Manchester United, Man City, Liverpool et al.

Not that their form has been anything to write home about — perhaps an expected byproduct of the club's long-term approach.

The Bluebirds youngsters have been competing in the south division of PDL for the past two and a half seasons, finishing third in 2016/17 and ninth in 2017/18. They currently sit seventh with just six wins since February.

The results in a tricky eight-month period

All Professional Development League fixtures unless stated

February 19 - Bristol City 1-0 Cardiff U23s

February 22 - Cardiff U23s 0-3 Blackburn (Premier League Cup)

March 8 - Cardiff U23s 2-1 Ipswich

March 13 - Crystal Palace 4-0 Cardiff U23s

March 19 - Cardiff U23s 0-3 Bolton

March 23 - Leeds 3-0 Cardiff U23s

March 29 - Colchester 0-3 Cardiff U23s

March 31 - Watford 0-4 Cardiff U23s (Premier League Cup)

April 4 - Ipswich 2-1 Cardiff U23s

April 9 - Cardiff U23s 0-2 Birmingham

April 12 - Cardiff U23s 0-1 Colchester

April 16 - Barnsley 1-1 Cardiff U23s

April 23 - Cardiff U23s 0-5 Nott'm Forest

My point is look who's sons they are? ? ?


Why would we just put bums on seats costing us money when we had just cleared out better players than these two and look who's sons they are ? ? ?



Surely the question is, how well do we know Mckay really?

But in the opinion of the Academy staff they were not better. We do not know the wages involved either. I can't imagine they are a lot more, if any. We needed bums on seats, as the article above states. That's why we had to sign somebody. It also says they were signed to plug a gap. This I can fully believe. And it even makes sense - as much as I'd have loved local young players. They just weren't there. That is what Warnock (including Bellamy) were trying to change... are trying to change!

Their father is of course the reason they are professional footballers and have a job. If my dad was a football agent there would be a greater chance I would too.

Agent Willie Mckay sons?

Who the hell signed these two players for Cardiff City?

We were suppose to not know Willie Mckay?

They were both released players one even released from Scottish club Airdrie, yet we gave them both full contracts and were not good enough for DVP team, never mid first team, now both struggling with a non league club and and League 2 club? ?

Apparently we have signed other players from Agent Mckay who have also failed in our DVP team, waiting for the names.

Surely something not right here?


Questions need to be asked here as well?

McKay twins Jack and Paul have joined Chesterfield and Morecambe on loan respectively and played a combined 22 minutes for the National League and League Two clubs since their January moves.

Do we really want to go there ?
I'm sure people scratch each other's backs at some level in all sorts of businesses and whether we like that or not,we should bear in mind the potential for undermining the future prospects for the club and team.
I accept that there would come a point where you'd have to speak out if there were some serious criminal behaviour but at the same time ," there are some things it's better for a Minister not to know "

Do we really want to go there? I think the answer to that is now irrelevant,,, because other organizations, & agency's certainly will,,,, after all, they are dealing and investigating the deaths of two people. It already looks like law enforcement are getting involved, & I can only see this escalating,,, as time moves on.

Spot on Rick


We want everything out in the open on all sides, surely thats what everyone should want? ?

Annis , it will take a long time for the full true story to come out into the open - certainly not before all the ongoing legal matters are sorted.

Out of interest , what would your opinion of Neil Warnock be if he had insisted on dealing with Willie McKay and his sons despite being told not to , adopting a "back me or sack me" attitude?

Keith, I can see it being along drawn out legal battle, costing our club a fortune once again in legal bills, like it did with Malky and three other agents Tan took to court, but lost all cases.

If Warnock did this then I will be gutted and sadly he must suffer the consequences as well and will have ruined his great name at the age of 70 years.