" YOUR OPINIONS PLEASE " FOOTBALL BANNING ORDERS

The Banning Orders, For the next say 3 -10 years every time Wales/England play, the person has to report to the police station with his passport a couple of days before, then on the day of the match report again. Also if they want to go abroad they have to prove where they are going and get the all clear,They are also Banned from the City centre of Cardiff on match days, yet all they might have done is been drunk or stuck their fingers up at a match, TO ME THAT DOES NOT FIT THE CRIME.

OPINIONS PLEASE

If they are getting treated like you say for the offences you say then it is a very harsh and i feel unfair. However if they keep doing the same things time and time again after being told they shouldnt then they deserve to be treated accordingly

If they are getting treated like you say for the offences you say then it is a very harsh and i feel unfair. However if they keep doing the same things time and time again after being told they shouldnt then they deserve to be treated accordingly

100% thats what happens, And it could be your first football offence, as little as being drunk.

Maybe the "3 strikes and you're out" system should be used. A first offence is a warning, a second a sterner warning or 1 or 2 game ban amd then a third and the 3/6/10 year ban comes into force. Of course, all these are dependent on seriousness. If you're caught indulging in serious hooliganism, the courts may not look on it quite so leniently but no ban should kick in (excuse the pun) until/if the person is found guilty

i had mine for doing a nazi salute in the street away qpr 2 years ago on the way to the game . it was ok for some tw@ts english to call me welsh @unt .. i was charged racial assult because they were offended. i wasnt offended then was i .when they called me welsh @unt.. boys you got to be so carefull .any excuse and your banned.. if we do get up to the prem , there will be a lot more banned. they want your prawn sandwich brigade following the city away .. not your average city fan ..

:ayatollah: i had mine for doing a nazi salute in the street away qpr 2 years ago on the way to the game . it was ok for some tw@ts english to call me welsh @unt .. i was charged racial assult because they were offended. i wasnt offended then was i .when they called me welsh @unt.. boys you got to be so carefull .any excuse and your banned.. if we do get up to the prem , there will be a lot more banned. they want your prawn sandwich brigade following the city away .. not your average city fan ..

Racism or not, a nazi salute Pretty offensive whatever they called you

another law that the police can use for any minor offence at football ...millwall soon, no bubble trip for away supporters the police will let all the trouble go on, then in a few months come knocking at your door with banning orders, ENTRAPMENT comes to mind so they can ban as many for the wales v england fixture, being a footall fan all your human rights go out the window...and before anyone starts to slate me... footaball fans being banned for the chelsea fa cup game.... 3 year bans prison i expect for some ...but you get a paedophille with indecent pics of children and the judge sends him on a course to help him with his urges.... in the paper this week...

Maybe the "3 strikes and you're out" system should be used. A first offence is a warning, a second a sterner warning or 1 or 2 game ban amd then a third and the 3/6/10 year ban comes into force. Of course, all these are dependent on seriousness. If you're caught indulging in serious hooliganism, the courts may not look on it quite so leniently but no ban should kick in (excuse the pun) until/if the person is found guilty

Totally agree with this, i think there should be a 3 strike rule too.

I hate the law purely because you can't generalise offences and punishments. Each case should be individual. In my opinion, there's no place for violence at football matches. If hooligans fancy a scrap at an agreed time and place away from innocent people then that's fine by me but if someone is guilty of kicking off at a game then they're not welcome.

However, we all get carried away now and again. If someone is just drunk or sick at a game then give them a slap on the wrists. However, if they're drunk and harm someone else unprovoked then that needs to be dealt with.

Treat each incident individually, don't give set punishments for a range of offences.

Yet you fiddle or kill kids and your treated better than a football fan

you get a new identiy, driving lessons, new home, never have to work again, get to claim hundreds of thoasands of pounds when your attacked

who said crime doesn't pay!! police the goverment the system are all cunts

As I replied on an earlier thread, the sentences for football related crime can appear harsh at times and often out of proportion to other, more serious offences. However, sentencing policy is a debate for another day.

As some have noticed, there's clearly an attempt by the government and the judiciary to clamp down heavily on any football related offences. About time too, of course, and anyone with at least one functioning brain cell should realise that it's just not worth it. Sadly,just appealing to people to behave at football matches for their sakes and the vast majority who just want to enjoy the game, hasn't worked - hence the number of arrests, prison sentences and banning orders.

I like Nottage Blues idea. Perhaps a short ban will make the person realise that behaving in such a manner isn't worth it.

Perhaps those on here who have been banned would like to comment?

I think most of us Cardiff City supporters know the police are sometime over zealous with us with their attertude and a lot of arrests are for being drunk or just shouting football songs.

I agree that there should be a 3 strikes and you are out system as I have never been arrested and never been a law breaker but I have travelled away to certain areas eg the Midlands and the police are bloody dreadful and I have had to bite my tonge in the way they treat us and speak to us. They treat us as all like criminals on a day out instead of football supporters just enjoying ourselves.

Some supporters at times may just say something to a over zealous copper because of their treatment and the next thing the suppoorter is arrested charged & banned where is his rights all rights are out the window as coppers can shout and swear at us but we can not talk back or stand up for ourselves.

Then you read the news of all the serious crimes committed and the british law system being soft what a load of bollocks.

If they are getting treated like you say for the offences you say then it is a very harsh and i feel unfair. However if they keep doing the same things time and time again after being told they shouldnt then they deserve to be treated accordingly

A very good statement here....

The punishment should always fit the crime and the 'authorities' do appear to be overly harsh on SOME City fans. However, some people just won't learn....and for the benefit/safety of others they need to be curtailed.

I don't know what the answer is....but I do know that someone 'looking for a ruck' should be treated differently to someone having a piss in the street after a boozy day/night out.

In my experience no punishment can better the wrath of 'her indoors' if I were to go home stinking of urine (the 'Jack' women are, of course, used to it and treat it like a mating call ) whilst the odd scratch and bruise from 'explaining the error of anothers ways' is almost acceptable!!

:ayatollah: i had mine for doing a nazi salute in the street away qpr 2 years ago on the way to the game . it was ok for some tw@ts english to call me welsh @unt .. i was charged racial assult because they were offended. i wasnt offended then was i .when they called me welsh @unt.. boys you got to be so carefull .any excuse and your banned.. if we do get up to the prem , there will be a lot more banned. they want your prawn sandwich brigade following the city away .. not your average city fan ..

Your average CIty fan does not do Nazi salutes. You deserve everything you get for being so stupid. You do know what the Nazi's did to millions of innocent people don't you? Many of whom where women and children.....

Anyone idiot can take an eye for an eye. It takes a man to walk away from it.

The Banning Orders, For the next say 3 -10 years every time Wales/England play, the person has to report to the police station with his passport a couple of days before, then on the day of the match report again. Also if they want to go abroad they have to prove where they are going and get the all clear,They are also Banned from the City centre of Cardiff on match days, yet all they might have done is been drunk or stuck their fingers up at a match, TO ME THAT DOES NOT FIT THE CRIME.

OPINIONS PLEASE

The problem is the lack of consistency and scatter gun approach to enforcement by the police and law courts.

Personally I am fascinated by what drives people to participate in violence from a purely psychology perspective. Anyone engaging in organised violence deserves everything they get as it is a myth that 'innocents' to not get harmed. Defending yourself is a different matter altogether - even more so if you did not instigate it.

Take Chelsea for example, clearly lads who were looking for it, but as a result of that I saw youngsters absolutely terrorised and 'innocents' getting caught in the crossfire and that is not what we want the future of our club exposed to. Some of those kids parents had stood their ground to defend themselves and their kids and got nicked in the process. That definately does not fit the crime.

Most of us agree that the majority of us go to a game to enjoy and not cause violence. Most of us will also agree that any violence at a game is usually down to alcohol consumption. Personally I feel violence plus alcohol should be received with an immediate football ban. Violence alone then it totally depends on the circumstances i.e was it self defence or with intent.

When you get caught speeding you get fined. Thats usually a deterrant to not do it again. I just feel that same should be done for violence specially football related. I will elaborborate to get my radical message over. Any football related fight be it organised or not that requires hospital treatment then the cost of that medicine should be charged to the perpetrators of the violence. That is any fight amongst football hooligans that requires a visit to the hospital will require all those hooligans to pay for the bill. I'm pretty sure that would make them think twice.

Expanding on that anyone drunk and causing a hospital visit should be charged with the bill. Sounds damn good to me that does.

Whilst I agree with Ian on certain bits I also think that football fans are treated disgracefully.

If I was too have a scuffle on a night out, something that happens every weekend up and down the country, I would receive a ticking off or maybe a night in the cell. However if the same occurrence happens at a football match you are treaded like a serial criminal.

Also I have seen many innocent people being assaulted by the police at football matches because they have this power trip which they think enables them to wave their batons about at any person in sight, not for one minute thinking about the consequences of their actions. The most disturbing incident I have seen is an elderly gentleman in his 70’s making his way through the crowd and being struck across the head with a batton, the police man then laughed at the people who confronted him.

Sure it’s wrong to misbehave at football matches, but do they really deserve to be treated worse than convicted criminals, I think not.

Hence why I chose the words drunk and with intent Chris.

Its when you get the scuffle of innocents that irate people when it comes to handing out the punishment. Innocent until proven guily is part of our culture but sadly within football circles this rule is not followed. The reason the authorites get away with this is the history of hooliganism so anyone arrested for such gets very little symphathy from Joe public. Innocent or not your guilty and its wrong but the complaints falls on deaf ears due to historic issues of hooliganism.

Wrong definately but who cares?

While the punishment does seem harsh and if innocent people are getting banned then it's obviously not a great system, but anti social behaviour at football can ruin it for the proper fans who are there to support the team so I'm all for getting them out to improve the match day excperience for those who can behave themselves. Drinking and supporting the team isn't a crime but anti social behavious (and nazi salutes ) are and people deserve there bannings if they do these things, there is a law in place and people know you have to conduct yourselves in a certain way at football matches or you'll be banned, how hard is it to do that?

I've been following Cardiff to around 12 away matches a year for the last ten years and have never once had trouble with any of this because I know not to act like an idiot when there are police around.

I live away from Cardiff and bubble trips that are in place because fans of both clubs couldn't behave themselves make it more or less impossible for me to get to certain games so anyway round bubble trips being in place is fine by me

The Banning Orders, For the next say 3 -10 years every time Wales/England play, the person has to report to the police station with his passport a couple of days before, then on the day of the match report again. Also if they want to go abroad they have to prove where they are going and get the all clear,They are also Banned from the City centre of Cardiff on match days, yet all they might have done is been drunk or stuck their fingers up at a match, TO ME THAT DOES NOT FIT THE CRIME.

OPINIONS PLEASE

If the offence is drunkeness or finger waving then clearly the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

However, no-one is going to get away with doing Nazi salutes and then claim to be the victim. Those of us who lived through the 70's & 80's know where the motivation for harsh over punishment of football fans by the courts has come from.

We are still crawling our way out of that mire but it is fair to say that the Police forces up and down the country are part of the problem and not the solution.

The Banning Orders, For the next say 3 -10 years every time Wales/England play, the person has to report to the police station with his passport a couple of days before, then on the day of the match report again. Also if they want to go abroad they have to prove where they are going and get the all clear,They are also Banned from the City centre of Cardiff on match days, yet all they might have done is been drunk or stuck their fingers up at a match, TO ME THAT DOES NOT FIT THE CRIME.

OPINIONS PLEASE

If the offence is drunkeness or finger waving then clearly the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

However, no-one is going to get away with doing Nazi salutes and then claim to be the victim. Those of us who lived through the 70's & 80's know where the motivation for harsh over punishment of football fans by the courts has come from.

We are still crawling our way out of that mire but it is fair to say that the Police forces up and down the country are part of the problem and not the solution.

Tony, Many many Fans have had 3 year bans for being Drunk and minor charges like that.
Nazi Salutes are Not Welcome anywhere.

The Banning Orders, For the next say 3 -10 years every time Wales/England play, the person has to report to the police station with his passport a couple of days before, then on the day of the match report again. Also if they want to go abroad they have to prove where they are going and get the all clear,They are also Banned from the City centre of Cardiff on match days, yet all they might have done is been drunk or stuck their fingers up at a match, TO ME THAT DOES NOT FIT THE CRIME.

OPINIONS PLEASE

If the offence is drunkeness or finger waving then clearly the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

However, no-one is going to get away with doing Nazi salutes and then claim to be the victim. Those of us who lived through the 70's & 80's know where the motivation for harsh over punishment of football fans by the courts has come from.

We are still crawling our way out of that mire but it is fair to say that the Police forces up and down the country are part of the problem and not the solution.

Tony, Many many Fans have had 3 year bans for being Drunk and minor charges like that.
Nazi Salutes are Not Welcome anywhere.

Agreed.

For any person with even half a brain to carry out a Nazi salute exposes their own ignorance and insults the millions of people (on all sides) who gave their lives to give them (the ignorant) the freedom to talk the bigoted shit that they do....

punishments should fit crimes IMHO.

Too many people are nicked and are banned. They go to court and are acquitted. Drink drivers/dangerous drivers etc are allowed to drive until they go to court.

Fight at the football and you are looking at a violent disorder charge=prison
Get pissed and scrap on a sat night and you get a fixed penalty 80quid fine.

I'm not a hooligan and have never been involved but i feel that football lads get overly punished compared to smackheads and perverts. After the ccfc v west ham game 6 years ago or so some fans got 4 years. Sex offenders get less. Venables and thompson (James Bulger killers) were out in 8 years. Totally wrong.

punishments should fit crimes IMHO.

Too many people are nicked and are banned. They go to court and are acquitted. Drink drivers/dangerous drivers etc are allowed to drive until they go to court.

Fight at the football and you are looking at a violent disorder charge=prison
Get pissed and scrap on a sat night and you get a fixed penalty 80quid fine.

I'm not a hooligan and have never been involved but i feel that football lads get overly punished compared to smackheads and perverts. After the ccfc v west ham game 6 years ago or so some fans got 4 years. Sex offenders get less. Venables and thompson (James Bulger killers) were out in 8 years. Totally wrong.

Gareth, Your right they should Not be banned till they are Found Guilty, they are Banned as soon as they are arrested, it also never comes off their sentence.

A copper with a funny shaped head pulled a banned lad on Saturday. The bitter sod was gutted that his radius ban
doesnt stop him drinking in the City Centre. It also seems he was gutted that he was having
a good time drinking with his friends and made comments about us lot being 'risk' supporters.
The only 'risk' in Cardiff City Centre on saturday was the stunning young blonde girl who walked
past the GW. She nearly caused me a heart attack.So sooner than just walking away and acting like a man he had to threaten my
mate with:

"If I see you in town when Millwall are here I will personally see that you lose when you appeal
to get your ban shortened."

Power crazy our coppers are. The same copper (by all accounts) smashed some poor buggers
jaw with a punch from behind in a rugby match a while back. Figures eh?

Had 6 year ban for barnsley home in 2002, i had to surrender passport a week before the World cup and Euro's even tho Wales never qualified, all Wales away matches the same and also check into local Police station on the day whenever Wales played!! all a bit harsh me thinks

I have two opinions towards Hooligans and banning orders.

If two groups of people want to have a fight, I have no problem in them doing so. They both want to beat f**k out of each other? Go for it.

There are exceptions to this. Firstly, when innocent people are dragged into it and beaten - WRONG. I've seen this happen on a number of occasions now, and it isn't fair. Secondly, far too often pubs and shops and houses are smashed and wrecked due to the fighting, also very wrong. They are vandalising things that have no need to be vandalised. This is where football hooliganism has it's flaws. *I'm not defending football hooligans here, but neither am I condeming them.*

As for football banning orders - if people want a scrap, a piece of paper that stops them from going near the football ground isn't going to stop them. They will still find ways to fight should they want to that badly.

I've seen "evidence" given forward for certain people being given banning orders. The evidence is BADLY compiled, with a lot of FALSE findings. I've seen people being named as "top boys" who aren't, and vice-versa.

GREAT DEBATE

:ayatollah: i had mine for doing a nazi salute in the street away qpr 2 years ago on the way to the game . it was ok for some tw@ts english to call me welsh @unt .. i was charged racial assult because they were offended. i wasnt offended then was i .when they called me welsh @unt.. boys you got to be so carefull .any excuse and your banned.. if we do get up to the prem , there will be a lot more banned. they want your prawn sandwich brigade following the city away .. not your average city fan ..

Your average CIty fan does not do Nazi salutes. You deserve everything you get for being so stupid. You do know what the Nazi's did to millions of innocent people don't you? Many of whom where women and children.....

Anyone idiot can take an eye for an eye. It takes a man to walk away from it.

is that right Robbie, says the person who claims hes gonna key my motor .