COUNTRY GONE MAD....

No you are right, they should all be tried. Let the courts decide. When you commit a war crime you should be tried no matter which side you are on.

Prosecute Blair, prosecute Bush, prosecute Thatcher.

I get prosecuted for any minor offence I do, why not those twats?


And regarding the Falklands, what a waste of life on both sides.
The only British Soldiers I know who went said it was pointless war especially seeing some of their friends die defending a Island that most Brits at the time had never heard of and the war might have been started by Argentina, but only due to the fact that the British Foreign Office had basically told the Argies that they would not do anything if they invaded, Thatcher then changed her mind for political reasons causing bloodshed that could have easily been stopped with negotiations. Utter bint.

Prosecute Blair, prosecute Bush, prosecute Thatcher.

I get prosecuted for any minor offence I do, why not those twats?


And regarding the Falklands, what a waste of life on both sides.
The only British Soldiers I know who went said it was pointless war especially seeing some of their friends die defending a Island that most Brits at the time had never heard of and the war might have been started by Argentina, but only due to the fact that the British Foreign Office had basically told the Argies that they would not do anything if they invaded, Thatcher then changed her mind for political reasons causing bloodshed that could have easily been stopped with negotiations. Utter bint.

Now there are some, well many to be fair, who believe that the war was totally avoidable because they knew full well about the Argie threat a long time before and there were political channels open to her. However prior to the war Thatchers ratings in the polls were the lowest of any PM in history. So rather than take the political channels open she knew that going down there could boost her ratings.

Prosecute Blair, prosecute Bush, prosecute Thatcher.

I get prosecuted for any minor offence I do, why not those twats?


And regarding the Falklands, what a waste of life on both sides.
The only British Soldiers I know who went said it was pointless war especially seeing some of their friends die defending a Island that most Brits at the time had never heard of and the war might have been started by Argentina, but only due to the fact that the British Foreign Office had basically told the Argies that they would not do anything if they invaded, Thatcher then changed her mind for political reasons causing bloodshed that could have easily been stopped with negotiations. Utter bint.

AFAIK ( and I guess someone like maccydee would know better ), Falklands was a vital refuelling area for our forces. So not exactly pointless, when you factor in the scientific research stations too.

Negotiations? Falklanders wanted to remain British. Argies wanted the land, resources. What negotiations were there? Galtieri made the call in invade because he had an election of his own. ..

Prosecute Blair, prosecute Bush, prosecute Thatcher.

I get prosecuted for any minor offence I do, why not those twats?


And regarding the Falklands, what a waste of life on both sides.
The only British Soldiers I know who went said it was pointless war especially seeing some of their friends die defending a Island that most Brits at the time had never heard of and the war might have been started by Argentina, but only due to the fact that the British Foreign Office had basically told the Argies that they would not do anything if they invaded, Thatcher then changed her mind for political reasons causing bloodshed that could have easily been stopped with negotiations. Utter bint.

Now there are some, well many to be fair, who believe that the war was totally avoidable because they knew full well about the Argie threat a long time before and there were political channels open to her. However prior to the war Thatchers ratings in the polls were the lowest of any PM in history. So rather than take the political channels open she knew that going down there could boost her ratings.

And Galtieri knew invading boosted his ratings in Argentina by playing up the machismo. Once Galtieri made that choice, responding with force was the only option. If we hadn't, people would then have slagged Thatcher off for not defending British subjects and interests...

Prosecute Blair, prosecute Bush, prosecute Thatcher.

I get prosecuted for any minor offence I do, why not those twats?


And regarding the Falklands, what a waste of life on both sides.
The only British Soldiers I know who went said it was pointless war especially seeing some of their friends die defending a Island that most Brits at the time had never heard of and the war might have been started by Argentina, but only due to the fact that the British Foreign Office had basically told the Argies that they would not do anything if they invaded, Thatcher then changed her mind for political reasons causing bloodshed that could have easily been stopped with negotiations. Utter bint.

AFAIK ( and I guess someone like maccydee would know better ), Falklands was a vital refuelling area for our forces. So not exactly pointless, when you factor in the scientific research stations too.

Negotiations? Falklanders wanted to remain British. Argies wanted the land, resources. What negotiations were there? Galtieri made the call in invade because he had an election of his own. ..

I didn't say the Falklands was pointless, I said the war was pointless.
The Argies asked what would happen if they invaded and were told by the FO that nothing would happen. Thatcher then changed her mind. By negotiations I mean Argentina would not have invaded if they knew that Britain gave a shit but they kept being told that Britain did not give a shit about the Falklands hence why they invaded.

Prosecute Blair, prosecute Bush, prosecute Thatcher.

I get prosecuted for any minor offence I do, why not those twats?


And regarding the Falklands, what a waste of life on both sides.
The only British Soldiers I know who went said it was pointless war especially seeing some of their friends die defending a Island that most Brits at the time had never heard of and the war might have been started by Argentina, but only due to the fact that the British Foreign Office had basically told the Argies that they would not do anything if they invaded, Thatcher then changed her mind for political reasons causing bloodshed that could have easily been stopped with negotiations. Utter bint.

Now there are some, well many to be fair, who believe that the war was totally avoidable because they knew full well about the Argie threat a long time before and there were political channels open to her. However prior to the war Thatchers ratings in the polls were the lowest of any PM in history. So rather than take the political channels open she knew that going down there could boost her ratings.

And Galtieri knew invading boosted his ratings in Argentina by playing up the machismo. Once Galtieri made that choice, responding with force was the only option. If we hadn't, people would then have slagged Thatcher off for not defending British subjects and interests...

But the point is she could have sorted it out a long time before he made that decision. It wasn't a case of waking up one morning and being taken by surprise. She knew what was going to happen, she had every opportunity to sort it out long before it came to war. She ignored all diplomatic options way before hand. She chose not to do any of that, she wanted her war. She wanted her bloodshed.

Prosecute Blair, prosecute Bush, prosecute Thatcher.

I get prosecuted for any minor offence I do, why not those twats?


And regarding the Falklands, what a waste of life on both sides.
The only British Soldiers I know who went said it was pointless war especially seeing some of their friends die defending a Island that most Brits at the time had never heard of and the war might have been started by Argentina, but only due to the fact that the British Foreign Office had basically told the Argies that they would not do anything if they invaded, Thatcher then changed her mind for political reasons causing bloodshed that could have easily been stopped with negotiations. Utter bint.

AFAIK ( and I guess someone like maccydee would know better ), Falklands was a vital refuelling area for our forces. So not exactly pointless, when you factor in the scientific research stations too.

Negotiations? Falklanders wanted to remain British. Argies wanted the land, resources. What negotiations were there? Galtieri made the call in invade because he had an election of his own. ..

I didn't say the Falklands was pointless, I said the war was pointless.
The Argies asked what would happen if they invaded and were told by the FO that nothing would happen. Thatcher then changed her mind. By negotiations I mean Argentina would not have invaded if they knew that Britain gave a shit but they kept being told that Britain did not give a shit about the Falklands hence why they invaded.

Again, Galtieri at the time wasn't particularly popular, election close. What negotiations would take place "We want it." "Tough.". Useful refuelling point, decent scientific research going on, minerals and other resources. No way any British government would give it up, especially given the desire of Flakland Islanders to remain British.

War was inevitable once Galtieri made the call to invade. Negotiations weren't going to happen, UN weren't going to get involved. Any government, even the staunchest socialist ones, would have reacted the same way.

FFS Nerd!

WHAT ABOUT ALLLLLLL THE TIME SHE HAD """"BEFOOOOOORE"""" HE MADE THE DECISION TO INVADE?????

FFS Nerd!

WHAT ABOUT ALLLLLLL THE TIME SHE HAD """"BEFOOOOOORE"""" HE MADE THE DECISION TO INVADE?????

And again, what negotiations were going to be made?

"Yes, take the land, take the research stations, take the people who don't want to be Argentine residents, take the resources, take any refuelling bases".

Not realistically going to happen, eh?

"Talks" went on from the 1960s onwards, under various different governments. No invasion there.

What were factors in the whole damn thing was that Galtieri noticed the forces deployed there had previously been reduced; Argentina was in an economic crisis, election upcoming. Once Galtieri decided to invade, there was only one course of action to persue.

It was an opportunistic act by an Argie to retain power at the time. ANY PM would have responded the same way; maybe not Neville Chamberlain. He'd have waved a piece of paper...

Hate is a strong word and emotion i don't even hate the Jerks although i do have a healthy dislike for them However there is one person i do actually hate and that is Margaret Thatcher anyone who experienced the Miners stike will now what a cold hearted evil bitch that woman was and i too would piss on her grave

Maggie Thatcher directly ordered the sinking of the Argentine battleship the General Belgrano with the death of 323 Argentine sailors, despite the fact the ship was outside the exclusion zone and travelling away from the Falkland Islands.

Before people claim that bitch is not evil, they should consider the calous way she ordered the death of these people.

Personally I hate her with a passion and sorry I'm with Berwyn on this, f**k her I hope she suffers in agony as she dam well deserves it.

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That was War and lets not forget the Argies invaded the Falklands. What about all our Boys that died ? You are only are concerned with the Argies that died. Remember we were not the aggressors here the Argos were.If the Belgrano wasn't sunk it could of led to a lot of British deaths. But it sounds you ae not concerned about that but that is your opinion

Even in war soldiers and their leaders are responsible if they commit war crimes, you can't kill the enemy willy nilly. In Northern Ireland we had clear rules of engagment and if we steered off them we would be open to criminal charges ranging from assualt to murder.

So I'm not ONLY concerned about the Argies that died, what I was clearly pointing out was how calous Maggie Thatcher was for ordering the murder of Argentine sailors who were bascially retreating from the battlefield. Also as their ship was aheading away from the battle area it is pretty obvious that they could-not have posed a danger to British servicemen

As an ex-serviceman myself I hate the thought that those 323 sailors were killed for political reasons which had nothing to do with the war itself.

FFS Nerd!

WHAT ABOUT ALLLLLLL THE TIME SHE HAD """"BEFOOOOOORE"""" HE MADE THE DECISION TO INVADE?????

And again, what negotiations were going to be made?

"Yes, take the land, take the research stations, take the people who don't want to be Argentine residents, take the resources, take any refuelling bases".

Not realistically going to happen, eh?

"Talks" went on from the 1960s onwards, under various different governments. No invasion there.

What were factors in the whole damn thing was that Galtieri noticed the forces deployed there had previously been reduced; Argentina was in an economic crisis, election upcoming. Once Galtieri decided to invade, there was only one course of action to persue.

It was an opportunistic act by an Argie to retain power at the time. ANY PM would have responded the same way; maybe not Neville Chamberlain. He'd have waved a piece of paper...

Your missing the point I've already made, posted below as you seem to have ignored it.

The Argies asked what would happen if they invaded and were told by the FO that nothing would happen. Thatcher then changed her mind. By negotiations I mean Argentina would not have invaded if they knew that Britain gave a shit but they kept being told that Britain did not give a shit about the Falklands hence why they invaded.

YES your British government have done well out of wars, and the British guys that went to fight now with no army's or legs don't even get fk all from them. There are always things in the paper about a guy with no legs cant get benefits cos they have plastic limbs.

They will go 1000s of miles away to,save British people who want to stay British , But the English try so hard to stop Welsh , when people of Wales wanted only to speak there own language in there own country in there own school.
Also sent British troops in to Wales against Welsh people in Merthyr and hung one guy that was proved later to be not guilty of the killing of a policeman.

British Government again took Welshmen's Farmland who had been in there family's for years and Flood a whole Valley
So Liverpool could have drinking water ! Only to fined out years later it was for industry and then pumped our own water back to us and charged us for it.
Also when you talk about our Health service lets remember it was a Welshman that brought that in.
And you should all be glad he did, Go to Philippines just for one country, and if you don't have money you WILL DIE!
I have seen people outside hospitals there on the side walk left to die.cos they don't have money .

And this government has spent not Millions but Billions of pounds on Nimrod and it never even got into the sky,
Now they will scrap it at another cos of Millions.
And some of you say ,you wouldn't trust Welsh people to run Welsh affairs, You make me laugh.

FFS Nerd!

WHAT ABOUT ALLLLLLL THE TIME SHE HAD """"BEFOOOOOORE"""" HE MADE THE DECISION TO INVADE?????

And again, what negotiations were going to be made?

"Yes, take the land, take the research stations, take the people who don't want to be Argentine residents, take the resources, take any refuelling bases".

Not realistically going to happen, eh?

"Talks" went on from the 1960s onwards, under various different governments. No invasion there.

What were factors in the whole damn thing was that Galtieri noticed the forces deployed there had previously been reduced; Argentina was in an economic crisis, election upcoming. Once Galtieri decided to invade, there was only one course of action to persue.

It was an opportunistic act by an Argie to retain power at the time. ANY PM would have responded the same way; maybe not Neville Chamberlain. He'd have waved a piece of paper...

Your missing the point I've already made, posted below as you seem to have ignored it.

The Argies asked what would happen if they invaded and were told by the FO that nothing would happen. Thatcher then changed her mind. By negotiations I mean Argentina would not have invaded if they knew that Britain gave a shit but they kept being told that Britain did not give a shit about the Falklands hence why they invaded.

Never heard that before - got any references for that?

I'd be absolutely amazed if the Foreign Office had said that - abandon British citizens? If true, that just showed an absolutely gutless, spineless FO.

When is Blairs? When will the US leaders be prosecuted for war crimes throughout the 20th century, if you want to take that approach.

EDIT: Indeed, you and others want to claim Maggie got involved in the war for political reasons. Would you have criticised her for not defending Brits by taking no action? Also, why don't you criticise Galtieri for invading the Falklands purely for political reasons? The Argies had an election, Galtieri invaded. Why is one leader immune from such criticism? Indeed, Galtieri was far, far worse - a woeful Argie naval / army force, full of youngsters with little experience and slightly less combat gear than the forces under Blair/Brown...

I quite agree on Tony Blair he should be tried as a war criminal although the rest of your point is a bit stretched as we were highlighting one decision (the sinking of the Belgrano) rather than the Falklands War itself.

That said it is well documented that the Argentineans in 1981 were emboldened by news that the only British naval presence in the South Atlantic - the Endurance - was scheduled for withdrawal due to defence cuts.

That decision directly led to Galtieri's Junta deciding to invade. It has been a matter of debate for years over whether the Thatcher Government knew that and basically invited the Argies into the Falklands so that she could fight a war in a desperate attempt to boost her poll ratings.

Look Nerd, just accept it. Thatcher was a war mongering evil bitch.

It was even reported at the time that the Americans told her what was going to happen and asked her to sort it out before it came to war because it could be embarrasing for them to have Britain going to war again a south American country. For the American's to think of her as a war mongering bitch is saying something.

I can see you're approaching it with an open mind

Politics and football should never mix...

I can see you're approaching it with an open mind

What, like you are?

Never heard that before - got any references for that?

I'd be absolutely amazed if the Foreign Office had said that - abandon British citizens? If true, that just showed an absolutely gutless, spineless FO.[/

Not without looking, I'm in work now and don't have access to search engines.

First time I saw it mentioned was in a documentary on I think BBC4 called something like ' Great Offices of State', in the one about the Foreign Office, they were talking about how some Prime Ministers would undermine the FO. Main example was the above with the head of the FO talking and also one of the Foreign Ministers.
Anyway as you said politics and football don't mix, similarly Thatcher and Wales don't f*cking mix.

Never heard that before - got any references for that?

I'd be absolutely amazed if the Foreign Office had said that - abandon British citizens? If true, that just showed an absolutely gutless, spineless FO.[/

similarly Thatcher and Wales don't f*cking mix.

Spot on!

Similarly Thatcher and Ireland don't mix, Thatcher and Scotland don't mix, Thatcher and most of the north of England don't mix.

Never heard that before - got any references for that?

I'd be absolutely amazed if the Foreign Office had said that - abandon British citizens? If true, that just showed an absolutely gutless, spineless FO.[/

similarly Thatcher and Wales don't f*cking mix.

Spot on!

Similarly Thatcher and Ireland don't mix, Thatcher and Scotland don't mix, Thatcher and most of the north of England don't mix.

Thatcher and the working class, Thatcher and common sense!

Yes. What Thatcher was very good at was giving a few scraps to a few here and there and making him feel special for it. You'd be amazed how many fell for it. They were just as skint as everyone else but were too dull to see it.

I can see you're approaching it with an open mind

What, like you are?

I'm happy enough to be wrong if people provide evidence. Just seems people use their view on Thatcher to sometimes shape arguments, as with the Falklands.

Seems we'll always differ, so no use risking any debate descending into name calling; we've every right to hold the opinions we do, right or wrong...

I can see you're approaching it with an open mind

What, like you are?

Just seems people use their view on Thatcher to sometimes shape arguments, as with the Falklands.

Yes you are right. You have done exactly that.

And before you go asking for evidence, I'm not TLG. If you want to go searching for evidence to back up a discussion on a footie forum then go knock yourself out. I won't be doing that. Nor will I be sad enough to ask you or anyone else to "provide evidence". Life is far too short.

And before you go asking for evidence, I'm not TLG. If you want to go searching for evidence to back up a discussion on a footie forum then go knock yourself out. I won't be doing that. Nor will I be sad enough to ask you or anyone else to "provide evidence". Life is far too short.

Hey, berwyn, just want to say my views here have never been intended to knock you or anyone else personally... just in case you're getting the wrong impression.

I know you're not TLG. There's only room in the universe for one TLG...

And before you go asking for evidence, I'm not TLG. If you want to go searching for evidence to back up a discussion on a footie forum then go knock yourself out. I won't be doing that. Nor will I be sad enough to ask you or anyone else to "provide evidence". Life is far too short.

Hey, berwyn, just want to say my views here have never been intended to knock you or anyone else personally... just in case you're getting the wrong impression.

I know you're not TLG. There's only room in the universe for one TLG...

No not at all. I do take all discuusions as just that. Afterall this is a footie forum where talking bollux is the main thing and a bit of life perspective is always needed.

Cant believe what has been said on here regarding the Falklands The Belgrano could and did have the capabilities to sink one of our Aircraft carriers and if that had happened we would of lost the war.Our generals advised the Belgrano to be sunk and M.T agreed to that. As i said we was close to losing the war and Several times that could of been that scenario. Why have any of you not mentioned the Sir Gallahad ? When our boys died and many were horrifically burned.Your hatred of one Woman seems to cloud your judgement on many issues. I also know mates that were there and they do not share your views and myself i am proud of our boys and in winning that war but that is just me.

As for Maggie i never liked her but as time went on i did respect her more for what she had done. Her treatment of the Miners i hated her for that. Because they were duped by a callous and evil man Scargill.
Lets not forget Scargill wanted to bring down a government that was elected by the British people, and i dont care if you disagree with the Tories politics you dont bring down an elected government, you do that at the ballot box.

Now what i want to ask you lot who hated Thatcher so much do you believe Scargill had the Miners interests at heart ? and was his objective to give the Miners a better standard of life ?. Me what do i think ? Scargill was a Marxist a tyrant who wanted to bring down an elected government. Whilst the Miners were starving he led a life of luxury whilst using these men for his own gain. Since then he has lived a life of luxury whilst the Miners led a life of unemployment

This nonsense about the foreign office telling a foreign power to just go ahead and invade a British territory is about the most preposterous thing i've ever seen on this board.

I suppose they also told the French to help themselves to Cornwall?

The Falklands was about two things: politics ( on both sides) and oil.