DANGEROUS CRIMINALS TAKEN OFF THE STREET

We can all sleep safer now knowing that these dangerous criminals are behind bars, there were people there who had the audacity to gesticulate at rival fans one even threw a rubber traffic cone ten feet into the road.
Thanks to some great police work our streets are now safer for all of us, these criminals should have taken up stealing cars or burglary because you can get away with about ten offences of that before a night in the nick.

I know it may cost us £500 a head for each one of those locked up per week and their families will have to survive on benefits etc until they are freed to look for work again, but surely these family men with previously clean records and in full time employment need to be taught a harsh lesson. I'm sure a ten year ban from football, a heavy fine and a community service order making them put something back into the community would not have taught them a lesson. Hopefully now these dangerous criminals are off the street the police can get on with some more income generation collecting parking fines and catching people speeding and dropping litter.

We can all sleep safer now knowing that these dangerous criminals are behind bars, there were people there who had the audacity to gesticulate at rival fans one even threw a rubber traffic cone ten feet into the road.
Thanks to some great police work our streets are now safer for all of us, these criminals should have taken up stealing cars or burglary because you can get away with about ten offences of that before a night in the nick.

I know it may cost us £500 a head for each one of those locked up per week and their families will have to survive on benefits etc until they are freed to look for work again, but surely these family men with previously clean records and in full time employment need to be taught a harsh lesson. I'm sure a ten year ban from football, a heavy fine and a community service order making them put something back into the community would not have taught them a lesson. Hopefully now these dangerous criminals are off the street the police can get on with some more income generation collecting parking fines and catching people speeding and dropping litter.

Gwyn, 2 wrongs don't make a right, these sentences are evidently very harsh, but what can be done to stop the mindless violence of football hooliganism?

What would be an appropriate punishment that both reflected the nature of the crime but also acted as a worthwhile deterrent?

And what makes these young men want to stand about posturing and wave their arms at each other in the first place?

Surely this needs debated rather than just saying they were honest lads done wrong?

WELL SAID

Gwyn its wasted and gone over davebb head.

You are spot on, now they have broken the back of the master criminals of the UK, they can concentrate on the LESS serious matter of paedos (thats half the judges), rapists, gun and knife crime etc etc etc etc

Better off being a MP and STEALING of tax payers then throwing a cone or the V sign, less serious, less sentence.

The British Justice System is the laughing stock of the WORLD, and thats why paedos and the like re-offend

Be intersting to find out what sentences the Pompey fans get that we all saw actually attacking and assualting 3 Cardiff fans after the game down there ............ prison for throwing a rubber cone into the road then these guys must be shiting themselves after what they did . Punching and kicking a bloke clearly outnumbered should get a sentence , having said that it wasnt caught on " CCTV film " was it ??? See what happens then

the law is a joke.......

i'm also sick of people having a pop at those involved, yeah ok they were fighting, whats new, people fight every day of the week, i wonder what those people having a pop would do if someone attacked them in the street...... roll over and get fucked up the arse no doubt.

good luck to those guys that are in court..... i for one hope you walk free and if that upsets anyone.........TOUGH SHIT

I cant even put into words how pissed off and disgusted I am Gwyn. Me and the old man tried to prepare everyone for the worst but the whole family are so shocked and devastated, they cant get their head round it having seen the videos. They just cant understand how someone can be punished so badly for throwing a cone that didnt even hit anyone.

There is absolute no logic in these sentenses what so ever. I see Peter do more damage in 50/50 challenges on the football pitch week in week out than what he did up there.

We can all sleep safer now knowing that these dangerous criminals are behind bars, there were people there who had the audacity to gesticulate at rival fans one even threw a rubber traffic cone ten feet into the road.
Thanks to some great police work our streets are now safer for all of us, these criminals should have taken up stealing cars or burglary because you can get away with about ten offences of that before a night in the nick.

I know it may cost us £500 a head for each one of those locked up per week and their families will have to survive on benefits etc until they are freed to look for work again, but surely these family men with previously clean records and in full time employment need to be taught a harsh lesson. I'm sure a ten year ban from football, a heavy fine and a community service order making them put something back into the community would not have taught them a lesson. Hopefully now these dangerous criminals are off the street the police can get on with some more income generation collecting parking fines and catching people speeding and dropping litter.

Gwyn, 2 wrongs don't make a right, these sentences are evidently very harsh, but what can be done to stop the mindless violence of football hooliganism?

What would be an appropriate punishment that both reflected the nature of the crime but also acted as a worthwhile deterrent?

And what makes these young men want to stand about posturing and wave their arms at each other in the first place?

Surely this needs debated rather than just saying they were honest lads done wrong?

Did you read my tongue in cheek comment that obviously a ten year ban a heavy fine and a community order would not suffice, because I'm sure most people will agree with me that possibly that would have been a far more fitting punishment.

We can all sleep safer now knowing that these dangerous criminals are behind bars, there were people there who had the audacity to gesticulate at rival fans one even threw a rubber traffic cone ten feet into the road.
Thanks to some great police work our streets are now safer for all of us, these criminals should have taken up stealing cars or burglary because you can get away with about ten offences of that before a night in the nick.

I know it may cost us £500 a head for each one of those locked up per week and their families will have to survive on benefits etc until they are freed to look for work again, but surely these family men with previously clean records and in full time employment need to be taught a harsh lesson. I'm sure a ten year ban from football, a heavy fine and a community service order making them put something back into the community would not have taught them a lesson. Hopefully now these dangerous criminals are off the street the police can get on with some more income generation collecting parking fines and catching people speeding and dropping litter.

Gwyn, 2 wrongs don't make a right, these sentences are evidently very harsh, but what can be done to stop the mindless violence of football hooliganism?

What would be an appropriate punishment that both reflected the nature of the crime but also acted as a worthwhile deterrent?

And what makes these young men want to stand about posturing and wave their arms at each other in the first place?

Surely this needs debated rather than just saying they were honest lads done wrong?

A three year ban and community service would have been more than enough of a deterrent. If you have seen the worry and concern of my brother and our family the last few weeks you would understand. The fact it even got to court was enough for him to say he would never even contemplate it again.

What you seem to forget is that some of these boys caught up in this are not hardened criminals that are in and out of prison all the time they are first time offenders. The sheer possibility of losing jobs, houses, families is more than enough for some people to never do it again. Let alone the fact that this is what will happen now they are doing time.

Some of your posts have been ridiculous, its like you live in some ideal fantasy world.

I don't condone hooliganism but I agree with the majority that compared to other more serious crimes these sentences are a bit embarrassing. Saying that, there are definitely two sides of the argument to this...

Firstly, the harsh sentencing of football fans near trouble has been raged about on here for months and months. So those at Chelsea who got involved knew there was the risk of being subjected to similar treatment if they were caught. It's similar to speeding. Some of the penalties can be harsh as f**k but we all know the rules. So if you get caught all you can do is put your hands up, say you knew the risks and take the punishment.

Saying that, I have always been a firm believer that hooliganism has no place at football matches but if these lads fancy meeting up for a scrap then I have no problem with this, provided it is in an organised time and place away from affecting innocent people. My mum almost got caught up and hurt in the trouble at Chelsea so forgive my unsympathetic attitude. Anyway, it is clear that jailing hooligans is having zero impact on hooliganism. It is just riling the hooligan sections up, taking up space in prisons and, to be honest, making a mockery of the justice system when a man can rape a child and be out on a similar sentence.

In Germany, they have allocated hooligan parks where before or after a game hooligans can meet up for a scrap. Hooligans will always find a way. It isn't an attitude, it isn't a habit, it's an ideology. You can't kill that. So why the law hasn't taken steps to control it rather than end it is beyond me.

The people I feel for the most are the families of these lads who have been sentenced. A child won't see their dad for a year, a parent won't see their child for a year. Siblings will be parted for a year. That's the real cost of this. I'm sorry to say that is both the fault of the law and the individuals themselves together.

Did you read my tongue in cheek comment that obviously a ten year ban a heavy fine and a community order would not suffice, because I'm sure most people will agree with me that possibly that would have been a far more fitting punishment.

Course I did Gwyn, but it was just another pop at the justice system, like many other threads on here.

Only one person (so far) has looked at what the punishment should be, whilst remembering it should act as a deterrent, and what can be done to stop the behaviour in the first place.

Whilst the mantra of 'only fighting their own, good honest lads' continues then we'll continue to have bubble trips and severely restricted ticket allocations. And I wonder who'll be moaning about that the most?

Some of your posts have been ridiculous, its like you live in some ideal fantasy world.

Please explain.

WELL SAID, THE POLICE ARE A JOKE AND THE GOVERMENT TOO

hopfully alot will get the sack with all these cut backs, too many coppers sitting around doing nothing

over the top sentencing , big time

over the top sentencing , big time

I'm starting to feel like a stuck record here but...

What's the alternative sludge? How do we make the punishment fit the crime but still have a punishment that acts as a deterrent?

What can football fans or the society at large do to discourage this type of behaviour in the first place?

Banging on about the severity of the sentences is just trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted.

over the top sentencing , big time

Actually I think the sentences for Violent Disorder are not over the top and I would agree with them fully, what was over the top was charging these lads with Violent Disorder in the first place.

Their intention was not to cause Violent Disorder, but because of CCTV and the small print in the Public Order Act 1986 the CPS could techically get away with charging them with VO.

IMO their intended crime (if there was one) was more along the lines of breach of the peace or at the absolute most threatening behaviour, both of which would-not have attracted a prison sentence.

over the top sentencing , big time

I'm starting to feel like a stuck record here but...

What's the alternative sludge? How do we make the punishment fit the crime but still have a punishment that acts as a deterrent?

What can football fans or the society at large do to discourage this type of behaviour in the first place?

Banging on about the severity of the sentences is just trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted.

davebb you are right in saying that the punishment should fit the crime. However, when the crime is a 'techical' rather than actual or intended then an injustice occurs.

A banning order and community service was the correct sentence in this case.

over the top sentencing , big time

Actually I think the sentences for Violent Disorder are not over the top and I would agree with them fully, what was over the top was charging these lads with Violent Disorder in the first place.

Their intention was not to cause Violent Disorder, but because of CCTV and the small print in the Public Order Act 1986 the CPS could techically get away with charging them with VO.

IMO their intended crime (if there was one) was more along the lines of breach of the peace or at the absolute most threatening behaviour, both of which would-not have attracted a prison sentence.

While I agree that the 16 month sentence is way over the top, and I genuinely feel for the guy missing out on seeing his young one, and indeed his family. You can't say that throwing a traffic cone is not violent or aggressive behaviour surely?

These boys have been unlucky without a doubt in terms of the sentences handed out. But they will serve as a deferrant, do you not think?

Now, the courts should think about doing the same for more serious crimes.

We can all sleep safer now knowing that these dangerous criminals are behind bars, there were people there who had the audacity to gesticulate at rival fans one even threw a rubber traffic cone ten feet into the road.
Thanks to some great police work our streets are now safer for all of us, these criminals should have taken up stealing cars or burglary because you can get away with about ten offences of that before a night in the nick.

I know it may cost us £500 a head for each one of those locked up per week and their families will have to survive on benefits etc until they are freed to look for work again, but surely these family men with previously clean records and in full time employment need to be taught a harsh lesson. I'm sure a ten year ban from football, a heavy fine and a community service order making them put something back into the community would not have taught them a lesson. Hopefully now these dangerous criminals are off the street the police can get on with some more income generation collecting parking fines and catching people speeding and dropping litter.

Gwyn, 2 wrongs don't make a right, these sentences are evidently very harsh, but what can be done to stop the mindless violence of football hooliganism?

What would be an appropriate punishment that both reflected the nature of the crime but also acted as a worthwhile deterrent?

And what makes these young men want to stand about posturing and wave their arms at each other in the first place?

Surely this needs debated rather than just saying they were honest lads done wrong?

Oh no, the "mindless violence" tabloid cliche that gets trotted out time after time.
Banning orders and/or a fine would have been sufficient. Because if you're banned you can't go fighting at football.the problem would therefor be solved solved in these cases at Chelsea. What can be done to eradicate football hooliganism altogether? Nothing has or will stop it. It really is that simple. Capital punishment never stopped murder.

LONGDOG... you make some good points

Dave

There's no point mate. There arnt many people that will agree with you. Despite not normally having any sympathy with people who get caught doing all this, I do feel the sentences are very harsh. Perhaps the Met should look at their poor policing for the game. I was at the game and if I'm honest, I was scared when leaving the stadium. I think the police were partly to blame for this. Better preperation could have reduced the trouble.

One of my arguments would be questioning the consistency. If I walk into town tonight and some boys are scrapping, will they get arrested and sentenced to 16months? Doubt it very much. I know someone who was attacked and put in a coma. The man who commited the crime walked scott free. Not even charged.

The law needs looking at. And that judge who handed out such harsh punishments needs to take a long hard look in the mirror.

Dave

There's no point mate. There arnt many people that will agree with you. Despite not normally having any sympathy with people who get caught doing all this, I do feel the sentences are very harsh. Perhaps the Met should look at their poor policing for the game. I was at the game and if I'm honest, I was scared when leaving the stadium. I think the police were partly to blame for this. Better preperation could have reduced the trouble.

One of my arguments would be questioning the consistency. If I walk into town tonight and some boys are scrapping, will they get arrested and sentenced to 16months? Doubt it very much. I know someone who was attacked and put in a coma. The man who commited the crime walked scott free. Not even charged.

The law needs looking at. And that judge who handed out such harsh punishments needs to take a long hard look in the mirror.

As a matter of interest, is there a way we can see what this judge's track record of sentencing is? I would like to see what sentences he handed out for other crimes. That's not me criticising the law or anything, I would genuinely be interested to see what punishments he feels fits what crimes.

over the top sentencing , big time

I'm starting to feel like a stuck record here but...

What's the alternative sludge? How do we make the punishment fit the crime but still have a punishment that acts as a deterrent?

What can football fans or the society at large do to discourage this type of behaviour in the first place?

Banging on about the severity of the sentences is just trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted.

Here's an example for you davebb.
I asked my mate earlier if he was going out tonight as he usually does on a Friday. He told me he's not bothering tonight due to the rugby. He normally goes to the Beach Grove in Penpedirheol. He said it will be full of strangers with red shirts on and come 10:30 it will be a war zone. You are not talking about the odd fight but more like a full blown riot. After the last rugby match they turned the pool table over and threw the bandits from one end of the room to the other.
If you want to see some real violence then go there tonight, it should kick off around 10:30ish. Don't worry about police or anything like that, even if they did go there they wouldn't make any arrests. They would just arrange ambulances for the injured. Lets suppose they do actually nick one of these thugs, he or she will just have a cell bed for the night and let go in the morning. At most it will be section 5 for which they'll get nothing for should it go to court.

At the end of the day justice has to be fair with the same for all. History shows you that when people are not treated fairly then there's resentment that turns to hatred which in turn turns in to higher levels of violent disorder. All societies must have a fair system for all and when they don't, well just look at Egypt at the moment. You must have perspective with deterents and fairness. The punnishment must match the crime.

At the end of the day what these lads did wasn't as bad as what will happen later on tonight in another sporting occasion. Yet the Beach Grove yobs will get nothing at all, which is a million miles away from jail time. Now that is not fair.
I've seen people who have killed someone escape jail or have less time. Now that is not fair.

over the top sentencing , big time

I'm starting to feel like a stuck record here but...

What's the alternative sludge? How do we make the punishment fit the crime but still have a punishment that acts as a deterrent?

What can football fans or the society at large do to discourage this type of behaviour in the first place?

Banging on about the severity of the sentences is just trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted.

Here's an example for you davebb.
I asked my mate earlier if he was going out tonight as he usually does on a Friday. He told me he's not bothering tonight due to the rugby. He normally goes to the Beach Grove in Penpedirheol. He said it will be full of strangers with red shirts on and come 10:30 it will be a war zone. You are not talking about the odd fight but more like a full blown riot. After the last rugby match they turned the pool table over and threw the bandits from one end of the room to the other.
If you want to see some real violence then go there tonight, it should kick off around 10:30ish. Don't worry about police or anything like that, even if they did go there they wouldn't make any arrests. They would just arrange ambulances for the injured. Lets suppose they do actually nick one of these thugs, he or she will just have a cell bed for the night and let go in the morning. At most it will be section 5 for which they'll get nothing for should it go to court.

At the end of the day justice has to be fair with the same for all. History shows you that when people are not treated fairly then there's resentment that turns to hatred which in turn turns in to higher levels of violent disorder. All societies must have a fair system for all and when they don't, well just look at Egypt at the moment. You must have perspective with deterents and fairness. The punnishment must match the crime.

At the end of the day what these lads did wasn't as bad as what will happen later on tonight in another sporting occasion. Yet the Beach Grove yobs will get nothing at all, which is a million miles away from jail time. Now that is not fair.
I've seen people who have killed someone escape jail or have less time. Now that is not fair.

This /\

I spoke to a woman today who was from Bridgend and was watching the rugby here, I mentioned about the last train home and she told me how disgusting it was fighting,puking,sexist comments - now didn't some of ours boys get done for this coming back from soton a few years back?

If that's the sentence then that's fine - but it shouold be the same law for everyone