" Good Character " Chelsea/Cardiff

I would like to add my take on the events of that dark day last February when some very unfortunate people have lost their liberty as forces constructed a scenario which led to the inevitable consequences which in turn has changed the shape of some lives forever. On February 4th I sat in a dock in Isleworth crown court and watched good people go to prison for events manufactured for them without possibly knowing the consequences.

All the early guilty pleas were backed with mitigation of the highest order with clean records and the leading of honourable lives. Yet this was not taken into account and people with unblemished records were sent to prison for throwing a single object in the heat of the moment whilst being under threat from an orchestrated attack. Yes these people were guilty, they admitted it themselves, did they deserve to go to prison, absolutely not.

I attended court on five separate occasions and I have watched with a deep level of care the pre-planned approach of the police in the gathering of evidence. It is obvious their intention that day was to gather evidence and not prevent trouble.

What was the police motive ? In my opinion this goes back a few years when I overheard one of the heddlu speaking to the West Midland Police after that fateful day at Wolves when we were attacked outside following the bar shutting incident. History states Cardiff's element mobbed up and repelled the attack. The conversation I overheard was that Cardiff were renowned for having a slightly larger element than most clubs but had by far and away the largest 'mob' who would join in at a moments notice. This is what scares the authorities the most. With Cardiff knocking on the premiership door, I believe they have taken an opportunity to blunt this threat. Therefore I believe the policy was to let the trouble happen, even encourage it and capture as many newbies as possible to thwart the future threat I previously mentioned.

In my problem solving mind, to solve a problem you attack the root cause and not the symptom. What was the root cause of the problem that day, those people sat in jail ?, were they the root cause of course not. The root cause was the bad policing or to be the harshest, illegal policing in encouraging violence in a public place. Of course we wont have a public inquiry because its football hooliganism and there's no sympathy. If that is police intelligence at work and their task is to prevent crime, they have failed. I now do not trust the police because of my first hand witness of their clandestine approach to gathering evidence and not prevent crime.

Now i am banned from watching Cardiff City for three years, I am sure if I pop in the Prince of Wales on match day for a pint I will be arrested. Yet, some of the most notorious hooligans in the land were allowed to drink in a bar not 100 yards from the ground. You tell me, incompetence, negligent, illegal. I am sure the pregnant lady who made the statement regarding the terrifying ordeal on the kings road (please dont think I am belittleing her ordeal) would like to understand why the police allowed people with banning orders in the vicinity.

It's a very cruel and sharp lesson to all who have lost their liberty, they did not deserve it. How those members of the heddlu can look at themselves in the mirror every morning is a mystery to me. They are parasites who live of a dying memory of 1970s football hooliganism, they don't contribute to society, they are players in the same game but with the cards stacked in their favour.

I found it particularly embarrassing in the statements the standard of english let alone the truth from the heddlu. Did these people even go to school.

So my belief is, they wanted to catch people with good character to try and thwart a bigger threat they are incapable of policing.

Good Character

What a great knowledgable post, welcome aboard

Thank You very much.

GC

A well structured post at that.

The best post I've read in a long time. Thank you

It is very clear that the many Police Officers and Police Departments are not fit for purpose, the police just can not be trusted They are given too much power, and are allowed to abuse the power in which have been entrusted to them, they exaggerate facts, to the point that they destroy lives of decent hard working people.
There can be little doubt in my mind that we have become a Police State, in which the Police Force are directly run by the Government.

Well written piece.

I was at both games. at Chelsea we had t walk past that pub to get to the Tube and the police just stood and watched as upwards of 100 Chelsea fans gathered outside looking to pick of City fans, there were more 'obvious' hooligans hanging around just further down the road as well. The police just seemed happy to leave them there. It was an accident waiting to happen.
Why, whene there were fans (individuals) there which have had TV programmes dedicated to them did the police not keep a lid on them ?

At Wolves, the home fans just attacked us as we came out of the ground, running down a small bank which seperated the fans. Thing is they had done this twice already that season, against Wigan and Reading if i remember correclty, which led to some nasty scenes - frightening for fans of these clubs who arent exactly renowned for violence.

So WHY didnt WMP learn from this ? as it was we were left to sort it out ourslves - luckily I was at the back of those coming out of the gorund, so not involved, but it was hardly suprising that the City fans fought back , and as a result the police lost control. They then appealed for names etc.. in the paper, but the sense of justice from the fans (who felt the Wolves fans involved got what they deserved), meant NO-ONE gave the names up.

The next season WMP got their revenge for their embarrassment, by cutting the allocation by 60% and drawing the batons on the loyal few that went there. before banning us completely next year.

Not long after Wolves played Notts County in the Cup and were up to their old tricks again, smashing up the busses and attacking families. Notts County FFS, 6 coachloads of families, I'm sre that even in our darkest days our fans would have left them alone.

I don't go to many away games so I'm hardly an expert, but from a distance and having read the OP then surely the only way to ensure everyone's safety (& liberty) is to have bubble trips to all high risk games such as Chelsea vs Cardiff.

I have read every statement the police have written on the Chelsea/Cardiff event and it is more embarrassing than a swansea town hoolie book. The standard of grammar and the obvious dropping in and out of past, present and future tense shows a low level of education and an inability to grasp the basics of the English language. What this also reveals is the statements were made retrospectively and they could not control in their minds what they remembered, what they were looking at on the tapes, what their colleagues told them, what rumours they have heard or read and of course the lies they insert to pad the story.

Most, who have read these accounts laugh out loud, at the childlike grammar and the obvious miss-truths and embellishments. The laughter has an initial underlying relief, because as good people we think this will never stick, they are not being serious. The laughter has subsided and changed to tears. I was in the courtroom as I saw expectant mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, grandparents, wives and girlfriends shrieking with tiers, collapsing to the floor and staring in disbelief how this set-up played its final card. PRISON, mortgages not paid, businesses closing down, education halted, characters ruined.

In the statements by the police they describe people, 'looking for trouble', 'risk supporter', 'terrace legend', 'looking for Chelsea', 'motivated by violance'. How they actually psycho analyse 6500 people when they cant spell "violant" is beyond my comprehension. In my case they even described me as being from a particular area and I hadn't even moved there at the time of the statement.

In my case, I was first charged with two charges of violent disorder, this could have resulted in four years in jail if I had fought the case and lost. The decision to plead guilty was a very difficult one for me as I can honestly say I did nothing other than let my morbid curiosity get the better of me and spectate a bit too close to the action. Over and over I played the events in my mind, once I had read the police 'evidence' I realised they wanted me guilty and therefore I decided to negotiate every charge down via my legal team. This was partially successful, as I am in the minority of people who are not sat in jail. I do however have a prison sentence hanging over me.

My heart and sympathy goes to the families who have gone through this hell. My hatred and miss-trust of the heddlu and what our society is capable of will never leave me.

great post that

Good post mate

Great post mate,all coppers are bastards little hitlers the lot of them and the biggest cowards going

Great post mate,all coppers are bastards little hitlers the lot of them and the biggest cowards going

Fair comment. I know a bloke from football up here, he became a copper and a bigger c**t almost instantly. Tried to stitch me up twice as well the ballbag. See what they want to see.

An excellent thread Chiefs some well written articles. Surely some briefs could rip apart the Police statements or bring a charge against the Police itself. Its an absolute disgrace. They are more like the SS than her majesty's Police force. Shame on them

GC, I have so much sympathy for every single one of the fans (yourself included) for how badly you have been stitched up for this and in essence taking the wrap for something you simply haven't done.
Now, I actually worry about being seen even in passing by any police officers (our football "intelligence" officers inparticular) at a match following reading one of the statements in relation to Chelsea and how trivial some of the things they put forward were, for fear I could be sent to prison for even being there. It's actually horrifying and a damning assessment of the times we live in.

Top post, remember thinking the same at the time, coundn't believe that there were no police in sight when we came out of the ground and that well known faces were allowed to mill around unchallenged. Police definately had a hidden agenda that day, if you compare it to the way we are policed in 99% of the grounds arond the country it just doesn't make any sense. It really could have been any city fan in the same situation as the unlucky few that have been 'brought to justice'.

Top post, remember thinking the same at the time, coundn't believe that there were no police in sight when we came out of the ground and that well known faces were allowed to mill around unchallenged. Police definately had a hidden agenda that day, if you compare it to the way we are policed in 99% of the grounds arond the country it just doesn't make any sense. It really could have been any city fan in the same situation as the unlucky few that have been 'brought to justice'.

Perhaps they were hoping those aging Chelsea hoolies were going to get a kicking ?

great post mate and i totally agree with everything you say coz ive just been through it all the same as you.
i was on 2 charges. 1 violent disorder and 1 affray. i pleaded not guilty to the affray and got it dropped. i pleaded guilty to violent disorder and as you said found it hard coz i was no more than being a close spectator, when the judge watched the videos he agreed with my barrister and dropped it to an affray.
even though i feel i should never have been put through all this i still feel very lucky that im not in prison.

stefan is 1 of my best mates and ive seen all the video evidence that they had of him and believe me its very little. how they justify giving stef 16 months is beyond belief, everyone that knows him will say the same, hes a very nice lads, quiet, polite, good character, clean record, great supportive family and a good job. unbelievable.

Touched by your posts Good Character

i knew the minute we were pushed out that concreat corridor that something was afoot, i told bakedalaska who was walking with us, if we go this way were gonna walk right out into the chelsea (knowing from being there before, X was a chelsea so went a few times) i even asked a rozzer why we were being directed straight into them he just told me to keep walking,
there was without doubt a hidden agender that day.

fantastic post. defo a hidden agenda

All this evidence why dont the CCFC trust or the supporters federation take the met on and make the complaint official.

Definately a hidden agenda, my brothers a sergeant with South Wales Police and it's done all the time, although it's not as sophisticated as you might think, they are honestly not that bright to plan things that well! At the Chelsea game, when I left the game with 5 minutes to go, me and 2 others went up Fulham Road to find a pub to watch the Rugby. Around 4 groups of 20 Chelsea lads passed us, who had probably been banned or at least didn't attend the game for one reason or another, just on the piss until full time and made their way to the ground, looking for trouble. They were able to walk straight into it, so the Police obviously were'nt bothered about preventing any trouble.

To be honest, it could be any one of us, getting caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, as the Police aren't really acting on actual actions just a media created threat that the authorities are obsessed with. Football fans are the easiest targets in society, as they are 99% white, so no threat of us crying racism or biggotry, and the Police have lots of time to set up servaillance and evidence gathering with out getting their hands dirty. Plus they have to justify the huge amount of budget they get for this particular Policing activity. I hope all the lads, who got done for this, turn their back on football, and do something more constructive with their spare time, as it's obvious that Football and it's culture thinks that normal decent people deserve to be treated like scum and second class citizens, I know I would if I was one of them. Like most people, I'm dis-enchanted with the way Football and the whole experience of attending matches has gone, and it would only take something like being dealt with, in this manner that would make me turn my back on ever attending a game again. It would be Football's loss and not mine.

Its a a Very Good post But

What I am being told is a Fight at a Football match Following Cardiff City Virtually means Jail, even if No body is injured etc.
This has come via the Home Office, they have intervened on the Chelsea Case, Corky told me it just felt not right, like as though the Judge had been Told to Send the Cardiff fans down. MIllions of £'s have been given to South Wales Police from the Home Office, I Believe they have had more than any other Police Force in the UK to Finish of Cardiff once and for All £3 mill approx.

Listen I have Admitted I was No angel and Growing up in My years was what virtually happened at Every game, but this Not 1970's/80's or even the 90's, This 2010/11 and Fighting at Football will get you a Sentence above a Burglar/Drug Dealer etc
With all the CCTV/Full time police spotters its JUST NOT WORTH IT. In My Opinion a Football Fan Seems to have No Rights, you can get a Ban for 3 years for just being a bit drunk.
If they did that at Rugby they would have 10,000 Banned on their First Operation.

Bloody Sickening...
Whilst reading these posts, i was weighing up the options.. As proved now, wrong place wrong time = life ruined.
So do i run the gauntlet with my families welfare at stake every game i attend??

I will say this, im devastated for our fans injustice, i have just left the army after 23 yrs service, often in places fighting for others right for fair justice, freedom of speech ect

So Ref: my first paragraph, i will be dammed, if a few jumped up failed wanna be soldiers now wearing blue, will dictate to me.I will watch the city where and when i choose.

RESPECT GUYS...

Its a a Very Good post But

What I am being told is a Fight at a Football match Following Cardiff City Virtually means Jail, even if No body is injured etc.
This has come via the Home Office, they have intervened on the Chelsea Case, Corky told me it just felt not right, like as though the Judge had been Told to Send the Cardiff fans down. MIllions of £'s have been given to South Wales Police from the Home Office, I Believe they have had more than any other Police Force in the UK to Finish of Cardiff once and for All £3 mill approx.

Listen I have Admitted I was No angel and Growing up in My years was what virtually happened at Every game, but this Not 1970's/80's or even the 90's, This 2010/11 and Fighting at Football will get you a Sentence above a Burglar/Drug Dealer etc
With all the CCTV/Full time police spotters its JUST NOT WORTH IT. In My Opinion a Football Fan Seems to have No Rights, you can get a Ban for 3 years for just being a bit drunk.
If they did that at Rugby they would have 10,000 Banned on their First Operation.

Not knowing all the facts involved here, I am not going to disagree with what you have heard and the assumptions you have made. However, I find it hard to believe that Cardiff as a club or group of fans have been victimised over a host of other clubs, it doesn't make any sense. We certainly aren't the worst behaved or anywhere near as organised as a hooligan element as a host of other teams I could name, so we are no more threatening than a lot of other clubs. I just think it's the way that football and it's Policing has gone in general. Why did the Police allow West Ham v Millwall to go ahead on a Weds night? go figure? It's my belief that the Police authorities are letting one or two high risk games go ahead, just enough to keep it topical and allow budgets to remain in place. I agree with the Rugby analogy, one rule for them one for us, it stinks, but that's the culture that exists, crazy really considering that a large proportion who would go to International Rugby games also go to football, they are not mutually exclusive, but getting drunk and leary at either event would have a very different reaction from the Police.

Good Character,

Excellent piece of writing mate, we appreciate it amd reading it made a lot of sense to me, having also attended the courts during this case.

It is not a one club matter it is fast becoming a national matter and the FSF will be aware of this, I know they are because I am on the National council, together with Vince Alm.
The big issue that affects fans from all clubs is this new way the police have come up with to deal with football fans...its a massive sledge hammer to crack a nut...instead of section 5 public order offences or at a stretch section 4...all of a sudden up and down the country we are seeing section 2(violent disorder) and section 3 (affray) now these are extremely worrying if you are a football fan because both sections means almost certain custodial sentences albeit suspended in some cases...and the only real criteria I can see for these serious charges are the two facts
a) You are in a group of 4 or more
B) Passers by could feel frightened or intimidated as the walk by any incident that is occurring
So in other words, what sort of defence do the fans have?????????????????????????
Definitely hanging around in the area will get you jailed, so you have to move away, even standing there arms folded got some jailed simply because they lingered for ten minutes or so around the incident when the judge reckons they could have moved away.

Sunderland fans are also facing section 2 and 3 for the central station incident where they were well and truly stitched up

http://www.fsf.org.uk/sunderlandfans/

We have fans facing section 2 and 3 for daring to stop their coach to help 3 other City fans from being kicked to death by a gang of bullying Pompey louts, what they should have done, turned the other way? No of course not, now they are banned until trial.

There are other incidents up and down the country where section 2 and 3 are being used on football fans, when in all honesty section 5 or 4 are more than strong enough charges. Please don’t think we are special cases, we are not others are getting the same treatment, is it because of the student demos or general demonstrations that have happened around the country over the last few years that these sections are being used? I don’t know...what I do know is that section 2 and section 3 are way over the top for football fans in the vast majority of cases.
We will look into this and these bail conditions banning orders before trial, it will time and a lot of effort and we will need cross club support but we will do our best to fight back.

One last thing out of the 95 arrested it is very much doutful that any of them would have been charged with anything as an individual...if you took each person and case individually none would have got more than a probable fine.
Also out of the 95 arrested, if you forget those for a minute and identify a different 95 people from that day, then the sentences would have still been the same...apart from one or two known hooligans who may expect longer terms in jail.

It is a worry for those who have pleaded not guilty but on the other hand what have they got to lose? At least they can try to put forward a defence and show up the police errors of that day...The jury will be vital and the jury will need to think realistically about the evidence and all the facts that led up to these incidents,,I HOPE TO GOD THAT THEY GET A FAIR TRIAL and a fair assortment of men and women on the jury.
Good luck to all of them.

a very good read that. and a very knowledgeable one.

WOW this is most probably one of the best threads this board has had. It makes my blood boil with the injustices, the cover ups, and an operation by a Police force that would leave the SS in awe all paid for by us the British tax payer.
Isn't there anything that can be done to challenge this pathetic government on this. A god damn Peado will not get a sentence this harsh. My feelings go out to the Lads involved and there Families

I agree with everything that being written here.
The camaraderie between football fans is infamous and has been since the sport began.
If you see a fellow supporter about to get a slapping you go and help them, just like you would for a mate on a saturday night., but because you have mates behind you to protect you, all of a sudden thats a crowd.
IMO if one lad goes down,in spirit were all going down with them.