Swansea finances 09/10

http://www.swanseacity.net/page/Latest/ ... 37,00.html

Swansea finances for 09/10

Net profit £593,091 -> was a net loss of £457,020

Cheap jibe in article about not including player asset values, as per usual.

Turnover up £770,512. Operating Expenditure up £3.235m.

Player sales, compo for El Spanish waiter... £3m

Directors took £110k out of the club - funny that, given they always bragged their directors loved the club, worked for free yadda yadda.

Their attendances? Ave 15,060 for 09/10. Up by a whopping 167 per game from 08/09.

And of course, "The club's away support has continued to be the envy of many other Championship clubs."


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I'm not an accountant, but doesn't it seem obvious without selling Scotland etc, without El Spanish Waiter abandoning ship, that profit would have turned into a loss of £2.5m?

Since then players have come in... wasn't Sousa fired, meaning a payoff?

So are they necessarily as rosy as they claim?

Have Swansea council received a penny of profits from the Liberty management company?

Keith or anyone else able to go through the figures, just to see the relative state of both clubs?

http://www.swanseacity.net/page/Latest/0,,10354~2305637,00.html

Swansea finances for 09/10

Net profit £593,091 -> was a net loss of £457,020

Cheap jibe in article about not including player asset values, as per usual.

Turnover up £770,512. Operating Expenditure up £3.235m.

Player sales, compo for El Spanish waiter... £3m

Directors took £110k out of the club - funny that, given they always bragged their directors loved the club, worked for free yadda yadda.

Their attendances? Ave 15,060 for 09/10. Up by a whopping 167 per game from 08/09.

And of course, "The club's away support has continued to be the envy of many other Championship clubs."


=========

I'm not an accountant, but doesn't it seem obvious without selling Scotland etc, without El Spanish Waiter abandoning ship, that profit would have turned into a loss of £2.5m?

Since then players have come in... wasn't Sousa fired, meaning a payoff?

So are they necessarily as rosy as they claim?

Have Swansea council received a penny of profits from the Liberty management company?

Keith or anyone else able to go through the figures, just to see the relative state of both clubs?

Without the transfer income this would equate to a £2.5m loss and remember the profit has already been spent on Sinclar and Moore. When you add this to the near £2m loss from previous season time is running out for Huw The Spew.

By the way Swansea Council have still not received a single penny in revenue from the stadium, this at a time when Swansea increase the wage bill for their playing staff. Also the Ospreys have the biggest players budget amongst the regional rugby sides.

Unless they manage to sell the manager or another player at the end of this season the bubble may well be about to burst.

Watch this space.

Interesting but I dont think they sat Sousa, didnt Leicester approach Swansea for him so Swansea would have received comp for him

It concerns me that you are diggning so deep to get an upper hand on swansea or trying to make them look bad!
If they are performing better than us on and off the field then fair play to them!

http://www.swanseacity.net/page/Latest/0,,10354~2305637,00.html

Swansea finances for 09/10

Net profit £593,091 -> was a net loss of £457,020

Cheap jibe in article about not including player asset values, as per usual.

Cheap jibe? How do you work that out then? Sensible bookeeping I'd call it.

Turnover up £770,512. Operating Expenditure up £3.235m.

Player sales, compo for El Spanish waiter... £3m

Directors took £110k out of the club - funny that, given they always bragged their directors loved the club, worked for free yadda yadda.

Their attendances? Ave 15,060 for 09/10. Up by a whopping 167 per game from 08/09.

And of course, "The club's away support has continued to be the envy of many other Championship clubs."


=========

I'm not an accountant, but doesn't it seem obvious without selling Scotland etc, without El Spanish Waiter abandoning ship, that profit would have turned into a loss of £2.5m?

And the money coming in from the sale of Scotland etc would have been taken into account when budgeting what we could afford to spend last year. Therefore it can't be said that it would have resulted in a £2.5m loss as the company may have made different decions regarding expenditure without that income

Since then players have come in... wasn't Sousa fired, meaning a payoff?

No, Leicester approached us and gave us compensation, albeit I understand only a small amount as we were happy to get shot of him

So are they necessarily as rosy as they claim?

Have Swansea council received a penny of profits from the Liberty management company?

Keith or anyone else able to go through the figures, just to see the relative state of both clubs?

http://www.swanseacity.net/page/Latest/0,,10354~2305637,00.html

Swansea finances for 09/10

Net profit £593,091 -> was a net loss of £457,020

Cheap jibe in article about not including player asset values, as per usual.

Cheap jibe? How do you work that out then? Sensible bookeeping I'd call it.

Turnover up £770,512. Operating Expenditure up £3.235m.

Player sales, compo for El Spanish waiter... £3m

Directors took £110k out of the club - funny that, given they always bragged their directors loved the club, worked for free yadda yadda.

Their attendances? Ave 15,060 for 09/10. Up by a whopping 167 per game from 08/09.

And of course, "The club's away support has continued to be the envy of many other Championship clubs."


=========

I'm not an accountant, but doesn't it seem obvious without selling Scotland etc, without El Spanish Waiter abandoning ship, that profit would have turned into a loss of £2.5m?

And the money coming in from the sale of Scotland etc would have been taken into account when budgeting what we could afford to spend last year. Therefore it can't be said that it would have resulted in a £2.5m loss as the company may have made different decions regarding expenditure without that income

Since then players have come in... wasn't Sousa fired, meaning a payoff?

No, Leicester approached us and gave us compensation, albeit I understand only a small amount as we were happy to get shot of him

So are they necessarily as rosy as they claim?

Have Swansea council received a penny of profits from the Liberty management company?

Keith or anyone else able to go through the figures, just to see the relative state of both clubs?

Notice you missed the question about the Council receiving any income from the Liberty Stadium

Cheap jibe? How do you work that out then? Sensible bookeeping I'd call it.

Oh, please! You can easily picture Huw maniacally thinking "hmm, should I put, unlike them down the road" on there.

And the money coming in from the sale of Scotland etc would have been taken into account when budgeting what we could afford to spend last year. Therefore it can't be said that it would have resulted in a £2.5m loss as the company may have made different decions regarding expenditure without that income

The point being your operating expenditure increased by more than the money you received. Hence, Huw's mantra of working within your budget is utterly destroyed. Now, you may well have not spent the money you did without those windfalls - however - you'd be looking at no Sinclair et al - would you necessarily be where you are now? With no player sales, minimal Sousa compo for account 10/11, operating expenditure won't dramatically reduce - especially with directors now taking money out, something you guys claimed would never happen.

So, humour me. Given for 10/11 accounting period you've not really got rid of many players, op expenditure remains high. Attendances have been poor, even with subsidised tickets via offers - unless you get some from Wigan on any bonuses re Martinez, there's a 3m dropoff in sales/compensation over the 09/10 accounts.

Which thus means, you've the potential of going from 400k loss 08/09 to 500k profit 09/10 to 2m loss 10/11. The swings from 08/09 to 09/10 aren't necessarily a problem. Suddenly going to a large loss, however, could well be - which means, like every club out there, you need to sell assets.

On a serious note, is there much interest in your players? Rumours of Williams, sure, but they've gone on for years without anything happening. Sinclair probably will attract interest, but Sinclair is coming off one good season.
Loaned to Wigan for a season - 18 league games. Only one league start. Birmingham, didn't really impress. Risk Prem clubs may see him as a flat track bully, like Graeme Hick at cricket - good in Champ, average in Prem.

So, assuming you go up, well, 2m loss would be covered by increased revenue. If you don't, however, balancing the books needs to happen - meaning player sales. Which then don't guarantee success, crowds could dwindle. If that's even possible.

I'd say you've a fair number of dead weight players in the squad you could and should remove. But if that op expenditure figure remains high, then you're going to go down the road of needing to promote or it gets tricky - something you guys criticise us for.

No, Leicester approached us and gave us compensation, albeit I understand only a small amount as we were happy to get shot of him

Ah, for some reason thought you'd fired him.

who cares

who cares

Clearly you do, to have opened the thread

who cares

From past experience the unsecured creditors

The main reason I'd like say Keith's thoughts are more as a wider point about footballing finances.

Jenkins continue played the "within our budget" mantra. Look where they are - the little train that could.

If these figures, and in particular the op expenditure, which based on reading the article on the Jacks official website, seems to include player wages, then it's clear spending has gone up dramatically, just in the course of one season.

In which case, is it thus inevitable losses have to happen, unless you're an elite team selling out sizeable stadium, to progress out of this division - in which case, aren't the jacks chasing the pot of Prem money in the same manner we did under Ridsdale, just to a far lesser degree ( and without the alleged dodginess )?

Ospreys and the Jacks have an agreement that they only pay ground rent when the match attendance is above 16,000 ............. so not too many games fall into that category .

Which basically thus means the Liberty development, fit out, maintenace is subsidised by public money.

I'm sure the taxpayers there find value for money in it...

Affter all, not hypocritical given numerous Jacks jibes about us having received gifts.

http://www.swanseacity.net/page/Latest/0,,10354~2305637,00.html

Swansea finances for 09/10

Net profit £593,091 -> was a net loss of £457,020

Cheap jibe in article about not including player asset values, as per usual.

Cheap jibe? How do you work that out then? Sensible bookeeping I'd call it.

Turnover up £770,512. Operating Expenditure up £3.235m.

Player sales, compo for El Spanish waiter... £3m

Directors took £110k out of the club - funny that, given they always bragged their directors loved the club, worked for free yadda yadda.

Their attendances? Ave 15,060 for 09/10. Up by a whopping 167 per game from 08/09.

And of course, "The club's away support has continued to be the envy of many other Championship clubs."


=========

I'm not an accountant, but doesn't it seem obvious without selling Scotland etc, without El Spanish Waiter abandoning ship, that profit would have turned into a loss of £2.5m?

And the money coming in from the sale of Scotland etc would have been taken into account when budgeting what we could afford to spend last year. Therefore it can't be said that it would have resulted in a £2.5m loss as the company may have made different decions regarding expenditure without that income

Since then players have come in... wasn't Sousa fired, meaning a payoff?

No, Leicester approached us and gave us compensation, albeit I understand only a small amount as we were happy to get shot of him

So are they necessarily as rosy as they claim?

Have Swansea council received a penny of profits from the Liberty management company?

Keith or anyone else able to go through the figures, just to see the relative state of both clubs?

Notice you missed the question about the Council receiving any income from the Liberty Stadium

As above when are you paying the council back ???

I think every Swansea Council tax payer should be made aware of the Liberty Bodice rent situation..........

As above when are you paying the council back ???

I think every Swansea Council tax payer should be made aware of the Liberty Bodice rent situation..........

Pay the council back for what?

The council are 1/3 owners of the stadium management company and both us and the Ospreys have paid all the money into the management company that we are contractually obliged to. So what is the issue exactly?

I think it's fair to say that Nerd has pointed out that Swansea are doing what we were doing under Ridsdale, selling players (or in their case managers to) to make up shortfalls in revenue so that the club can continue to trade.

It is a stratagy which works provided you have players to sell and by the look of their accounts they need at least one each season to the value of £2.5m.

The shit will hit the fan when they either don't have those players to sell, or they do but no-one is willing to buy because football is generally skint.

As someone has already said, watch this space.....

As above when are you paying the council back ???

I think every Swansea Council tax payer should be made aware of the Liberty Bodice rent situation..........

Pay the council back for what?

The council are 1/3 owners of the stadium management company and both us and the Ospreys have paid all the money into the management company that we are contractually obliged to. So what is the issue exactly?

The Council are actually 100% owners with a borrowing of 12 million pounds mortgaged from the Swansea ratepayers. I have a business and properties in Swansea and contribute 6.000 per year in council tax and business rates.The council hold a chair on the board of Stadco which also has two seats , one each for the soccer - Rugby. These are responsible for the running of the stadium. The Idea was that the profits would be repaid to us the rate payers.

As above when are you paying the council back ???

I think every Swansea Council tax payer should be made aware of the Liberty Bodice rent situation..........

Pay the council back for what?

The council are 1/3 owners of the stadium management company and both us and the Ospreys have paid all the money into the management company that we are contractually obliged to. So what is the issue exactly?

The Council are actually 100% owners with a borrowing of 12 million pounds mortgaged from the Swansea ratepayers. I have a business and properties in Swansea and contribute 6.000 per year in council tax and business rates.The council hold a chair on the board of Stadco which also has two seats , one each for the soccer - Rugby. These are responsible for the running of the stadium. The Idea was that the profits would be repaid to us the rate payers.

The council are 100% owners of the stadium but 1/3 owners of the Swansea stadium management company. There are six seats on the board of SSMC 2 each for the council (including chair) us and the ospreys.

As I said, the clubs are paying everything they are contractually obliged to pay into SSMC.

As above when are you paying the council back ???

I think every Swansea Council tax payer should be made aware of the Liberty Bodice rent situation..........

Pay the council back for what?

The council are 1/3 owners of the stadium management company and both us and the Ospreys have paid all the money into the management company that we are contractually obliged to. So what is the issue exactly?

The Council are actually 100% owners with a borrowing of 12 million pounds mortgaged from the Swansea ratepayers. I have a business and properties in Swansea and contribute 6.000 per year in council tax and business rates.The council hold a chair on the board of Stadco which also has two seats , one each for the soccer - Rugby. These are responsible for the running of the stadium. The Idea was that the profits would be repaid to us the rate payers.

The council are 100% owners of the stadium but 1/3 owners of the Swansea stadium management company. There are six seats on the board of SSMC 2 each for the council (including chair) us and the ospreys.

As I said, the clubs are paying everything they are contractually obliged to pay into SSMC.[/quote]

And it's these very contracts which require public scrutiny as for most people it absolutely beggars belief that SCFC do not pay for policing or stewarding costs at the Liberty Stadium. Why? Must be the contract negotiated with the Stadium Management Company which means that Huw Jenkins negotiates with himself as he is a member of the Stadium Management Board.

Then again although the SMC are supposed to pay the policing costs they have only just paid a bill from 2009 at the door of Swansea County Court;

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/news/ ... ticle.html

I can quite understand why SWP now insist on policing costs being paid on a match by match basis afterall they are unsecured creditors and lets face it with Huw The Spews record definately the right thing.

I do like the comment by One Post Wonder about all this being ratepayer money and full details should be published, and that comment is only about £100k, I wonder how he feels about the Council writing off the £2.37m mortgage for fitting out the hospitality areas of the Liberty.

That mortgage was taken out 5 years ago since when the Council, or rather the ratepayer, have been funding the interest payments. To date the Council has not received a single penny in repayment of that mortgage, correct me if I'm wrong but Swansea City received £900k income from the hospitality areas during the financial year 2008-2009. Wasn't that they same year the police bill wasn't paid.

Tell me normally happens when you do not make repayments on a mortgage, eviction or repossession, why has this not happened here.

Must be these contractual obligations Huw negotiated which say my club gets appox £1m per year whilst the ratepayer must service the mortgage and get nothing in return.

As I say watch this space.

This debate does open up another one, which is was it worth getting into hoch with PMG/Compass so we could build and fit out our own stadium?


Let's be honest when you look at the deal Swansea have with Swansea Council it does make you wonder.

This debate does open up another one, which is was it worth getting into hoch with PMG/Compass so we could build and fit out our own stadium?


Let's be honest when you look at the deal Swansea have with Swansea Council it does make you wonder.

Compass also have the catering contract at the Liberty Stadium although it is very difficult to find out how much they paid for the rights.

One thing for certain is that Swansea City Council have not received a single penny as a result of that deal as the monies have gone to the SMC who are let's face it using the income to reduce the operating costs of SCFC and the Ospreys.

Our agreement with PMG is that the club gets nothing from the Premier Seating / Hospitality areas until the loan is repaid, at the Liberty the clubs / SMC get everything and the Council get nothing. What would the interest payments be on a £2.37m mortgage for 6 years £1m+ I would think so in my opinion this arrangement alone has cost the ratepayer of Swansea over £4m.

It's not right public money and all that or should I say it's not right until the loan is repaid.

This debate does open up another one, which is was it worth getting into hoch with PMG/Compass so we could build and fit out our own stadium?


Let's be honest when you look at the deal Swansea have with Swansea Council it does make you wonder.

Compass also have the catering contract at the Liberty Stadium although it is very difficult to find out how much they paid for the rights.

One thing for certain is that Swansea City Council have not received a single penny as a result of that deal as the monies have gone to the SMC who are let's face it using the income to reduce the operating costs of SCFC and the Ospreys.

Our agreement with PMG is that the club gets nothing from the Premier Seating / Hospitality areas until the loan is repaid, at the Liberty the clubs / SMC get everything and the Council get nothing. What would the interest payments be on a £2.37m mortgage for 6 years £1m+ I would think so in my opinion this arrangement alone has cost the ratepayer of Swansea over £4m.

It's not right public money and all that or should I say it's not right until the loan is repaid.

I have said before Castle I totally agree with you on that score. With regard to Compass the point I was making is we had loan off them to fit out the stadium (I think it was £4m which of course has to be paid back) whilst Swansea's fit out of £2.35m was written off by the council (i.e. paid for by Swansea ratepayers)

When you add that to the £7m from the sale of Ninian Park, £9m (plus interest) to PMG and around £3m cash it cost CCFC to build CCS it begins to make you wonder whether it was all worthwhile?

This debate does open up another one, which is was it worth getting into hoch with PMG/Compass so we could build and fit out our own stadium?


Let's be honest when you look at the deal Swansea have with Swansea Council it does make you wonder.

Compass also have the catering contract at the Liberty Stadium although it is very difficult to find out how much they paid for the rights.

One thing for certain is that Swansea City Council have not received a single penny as a result of that deal as the monies have gone to the SMC who are let's face it using the income to reduce the operating costs of SCFC and the Ospreys.

Our agreement with PMG is that the club gets nothing from the Premier Seating / Hospitality areas until the loan is repaid, at the Liberty the clubs / SMC get everything and the Council get nothing. What would the interest payments be on a £2.37m mortgage for 6 years £1m+ I would think so in my opinion this arrangement alone has cost the ratepayer of Swansea over £4m.

It's not right public money and all that or should I say it's not right until the loan is repaid.

I have said before Castle I totally agree with you on that score. With regard to Compass the point I was making is we had loan off them to fit out the stadium (I think it was £4m which of course has to be paid back) whilst Swansea's fit out of £2.35m was written off by the council (i.e. paid for by Swansea ratepayers)

When you add that to the £7m from the sale of Ninian Park, £9m (plus interest) to PMG and around £3m cash it cost CCFC to build CCS it begins to make you wonder whether it was all worthwhile?

Tony it will be worthwhile eventually but as you have said there isa great deal of debt that has to be repaid before the club alone gets to see the full benefit.

Lets hope it will be long before someone says we need a new stadium again.

A bit rich commenting on our finances when your in such a mess financially yourselves.People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones,comes to mind. A few comments on a messageboard will not derail the Swansea express as it heads for the PL

Seriously though,i know it hurts that we're above you in the League after spending peanuts but show some integrity mun and take it on the chin

A bit rich commenting on our finances when your in such a mess financially yourselves.People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones,comes to mind. A few comments on a messageboard will not derail the Swansea express as it heads for the PL

Seriously though,i know it hurts that we're above you in the League after spending peanuts but show some integrity mun and take it on the chin

Your missing the point totally Blackswan.

After years of you Jacks gloating about how bad our club was run against your perfect business acumen it is now coming to light that you are a scam. Our club have detered against organisations like Langstones while you have failed the local council tax payer.

A bit rich commenting on our finances when your in such a mess financially yourselves.People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones,comes to mind. A few comments on a messageboard will not derail the Swansea express as it heads for the PL

Seriously though,i know it hurts that we're above you in the League after spending peanuts but show some integrity mun and take it on the chin

As a Cardiff fan I would not normally comment on Swansea's Financial position good or bad. To have done what you have done in the league is commendable and most City fans would agree and not part of the issue.Unlike Cardiff your clubs ground is owned by us the rate payers and the Council, I say us because I contribute a tidy £6000.+

A bit rich commenting on our finances when your in such a mess financially yourselves.People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones,comes to mind. A few comments on a messageboard will not derail the Swansea express as it heads for the PL

Seriously though,i know it hurts that we're above you in the League after spending peanuts but show some integrity mun and take it on the chin

As a Cardiff fan I would not normally comment on Swansea's Financial position good or bad. To have done what you have done in the league is commendable and most City fans would agree and not part of the issue.Unlike Cardiff your clubs ground is owned by us the rate payers and the Council, I say us because I contribute a tidy £6000.+

rates each year and rising.
I had no choice on the matter and as far as I understand we as rate payers are not only out of pocket but also doing the subsidy bit. Swansea and the Rugby are on a meal ticket that sooner or later will have to be made public. So lets see what awaits you may need PL more than us because Martin wont foot the bill and HJ has nothing like enough wealth.

I love nerd, he knows how to get a good debate going

A bit rich commenting on our finances when your in such a mess financially yourselves.People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones,comes to mind. A few comments on a messageboard will not derail the Swansea express as it heads for the PL

Seriously though,i know it hurts that we're above you in the League after spending peanuts but show some integrity mun and take it on the chin

Your missing the point totally Blackswan.

After years of you Jacks gloating about how bad our club was run against your perfect business acumen it is now coming to light that you are a scam. Our club have detered against organisations like Langstones while you have failed the local council tax payer.

Sorry, but what a complete pile of crap.

A bit rich commenting on our finances when your in such a mess financially yourselves.People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones,comes to mind. A few comments on a messageboard will not derail the Swansea express as it heads for the PL

Seriously though,i know it hurts that we're above you in the League after spending peanuts but show some integrity mun and take it on the chin

Just got our latest accounts.

Net debt now only £4m.

Difference between the clubs books is.

Swanseas show very little debt, but no major assets ..
Cardiffs show lots of debt, but a £50m asset. the stadium.

Both clubs need to sell to break even. Cardiff can afford to run a higher wage bill due to the substanial extra income we get from gate receipts, but nowhere near as high as we do. Im sure from next season we are going to have to cut back if we dont go up. Not so certain you will as your operating loss isnt so big and you IMHO actually have more saleable assets than us.. Allen, Williams, Sinclair all worth 7-figure fees (forgetting Rangel and Pratley who are out of contract). We are running out of players to sell, only Chopra and maybe Whittingham would get fees of over £1m in the current climate. McNaughton is quality, but too injury prone for anyone to spend big on... the rest are either loanees, out of contract or not worth a million.