WALES REFERENDUM 2011

21ST VOTE IN GWYNEDD VOTED YES

well bare in mind i got it from it from the plaid cymru site (bite of a green supporter ) and all politicions lie....but im pretty sure it was a grant and grants are given without given back so are funds...and wales ARE amongst the poorest of countries (it is a country of sorts) even thoguh i got that bit from the BEEB

Ahhhh....Plaid Cymru that explains it. If ever there was a rational arguement for not allowing the "Politicians" in Wales to organising something slightly more complex than slicing a cake, there my friend lies the answer...

Yes they are Grants but usually, not always I know, there has to be some sort of funding from the recipient although as I said before it is a complicated system. As an example, in my field where the EU (or other of the many International Funding Insitutions) allocate money there is normally a Private Company employed to guide the recipient's (these can be governments not just local authority's) through the application process and often the recipient pays for this which is then regarded as their contribution. Possibly a bad example as these are generally long term loans to support infrastructure investment and often run into billions of euro so the "donor's" want to make sure they get their money back....eventually!!

The BEEB unfortunately isn't as reliable as it used to be and they are definately known to report what they think you should hear rather what is actually happening, they don't want Mr Angry of Stevenage firing letters into the Guardian critising the DG... Then again they are basing the reports on statistics which can easily be manipulated either way to suit whatever particular point of view is required.

Anyway the Yes has one so be interesting to see what happens next, not a lot I suspect!

Willy.

I love how people think that Wales without Englands ball and chains would immediately fail.
I'm not asking for independence, I'm just expecting a bit of respect.

Small countries can be successful, you say that you live in Denmark which is successful and is hardly that much bigger, it has a population of about 5 million.
One of the main reasons Wales has become such a poor shithole is due to being ruled by politicians who either take advantage of it (Labour) or don't give a shit about it (Tories).

I'm not saying that Plaid Cymru are great but at least they care and respect my country.

By the way your lucky you live in Copenhagen, it's a quality city

Willy.

I love how people think that Wales without Englands ball and chains would immediately fail.
I'm not asking for independence, I'm just expecting a bit of respect.

Small countries can be successful, you say that you live in Denmark which is successful and is hardly that much bigger, it has a population of about 5 million.
One of the main reasons Wales has become such a poor shithole is due to being ruled by politicians who either take advantage of it (Labour) or don't give a shit about it (Tories).

I'm not saying that Plaid Cymru are great but at least they care and respect my country.

By the way your lucky you live in Copenhagen, it's a quality city

aye ive been there its beautiful...f**k me the ice cream is massive in denmark i asked for one scoop of chocolate ice cream and it was bout the size of a mini football

YES YES YES , Great That shows all these part time, so called Welshmen
YES to Welsh people taken more control over Welsh , Things Now we will see all the english mp asking why welsh mp should have a vote in england , when they forget we had to put up with english that made rules for us to live by , even if welsh people like it or not ! 2 fingers to the english goverment and all the part time welshmen. we got the YES!

THE 22ND AND NUMBER 1 VOTERS IN WALES ( CARDIFF) VOTED YES

WALES IS OFFICIALLY GOING TO BE ABLE TO PASS ITS OWN LAWS
ITS A MASSIVE TURNING POINT AND A WELCOME YES FROM ME COME ON WALES

THE 22ND AND NUMBER 1 VOTERS IN WALES ( CARDIFF) VOTED YES

WALES IS OFFICIALLY GOING TO BE ABLE TO PASS ITS OWN LAWS
ITS A MASSIVE TURNING POINT AND A WELCOME YES FROM ME COME ON WALES

halle-fuckin-lujah

This has been a 100 years in the making im so glad now Wales can decide itself what laws it wants and why it wants them. I just hope we have the best people in charge to lead us forward and take us into prosperity . At last money Wales can spend on Wales this is the first step on a long road i believe Wales can be a strong nation once again

yes obviously things like policing and defence we would not have a full say on . But as for other important issues like housing , benefits, transport we would not have to go through a long drawn out process to pass a new law. Embrace this day as a new oppurtunity for Wales and its people. Change is good and long overdue Wales needed it.

Willy.

I love how people think that Wales without Englands ball and chains would immediately fail.
I'm not asking for independence, I'm just expecting a bit of respect.

Small countries can be successful, you say that you live in Denmark which is successful and is hardly that much bigger, it has a population of about 5 million.
One of the main reasons Wales has become such a poor shithole is due to being ruled by politicians who either take advantage of it (Labour) or don't give a shit about it (Tories).

I'm not saying that Plaid Cymru are great but at least they care and respect my country.

By the way your lucky you live in Copenhagen, it's a quality city

Denmark probably isn't a good example to be honest, yes the lifestyle and the services are much better, particularly the health service but it is at a cost! Although income tax is very low, around 16 - 18%, a lot of services such as health are run by the local authorities meaning the Poll Tax equivalent is 23% in my part of Copenhagen then add other minor taxes such labour tax for the "unemployable" (there is no actual "dole" here as such, that is for the individual to take out privately) and a few other things that I'm not actually of the exact function and your looking at an overall tax rate of around 48%. I forgot to add the compulsory Pension Fund contribution of 9% base salary although that is tax deductable so included in the 48%.

The "unemployable" junkies, gypo's, etc (thats how it was explained to me by the CPH folk so don't take offence) get a free place to live, some very nice as it happens and 5000kr per month pocket money about 560 quid, sorry no pound sign on keyboard), they get other stuff as well but i don't know the whole so won't bother trying to list them. Obviously this causes huge resentment here but the Danes are quite a laid back people so it is only recently apparantly that things are begining to turn.

This system has been in place in Denmark since at least the end of WWII probably well before but there does seem to be some debate on that. Can you imagine someone trying to introduce a similar system into the UK? It is certainly possible but it would take a very, very long time and there isn't the political will within the parties in the UK to see it through.

I no longer live in the UK so should really keep my nose out but having lived in Wales for twenty years and London for 26 years I'm still British and wouldn't like to see the UK split up. This is not to say that I think Wales wouldn't survive as an independant country it would be an uphill struggle with everyone behind it and people who actually know what their doing running the show. Its not impossible but it is highly unlikely to succeed for so many different reasons.

There was actually a very good plan to introduce semi-automous (I think that was the term used) government for Wales and Scotland during Mrs T's time, part of the great Civil Service Review which got her removed as the axe was turning on the real power in the UK. I haven't seen the document for years, not that I was suposed to in the first place mind you, but it involved "devolving" many powers to elected representatives then cutting the number of MP's in Westminister to reflect this. England itself would have seen a reduction as well although I can't remember the exact figures it was around 50% overall. There was a whole raft of other suggestions/proposals (it was a report, strategy type document rather than an official white paper) as well, many of which have subsequently been introduced but without the core so a bit of waste of time and certainly money. I think that approach would still work which in a way I suppose referendum could lead to, senior Tory Party figures will certainly be aware of the document as will labour and probably the Lib Dems.

Copenhagen is a very nice City and I'm yet to see it in the summer, the ladies are outstandingly pretty but it is a tad on the expensive side. Luckily in my job I do get to spend both short and long periods in other countries were the cost of living is dramatically less with the advantage that as it EU money, if I'm away for more than a few weeks I don't get taxed!!!

Anyway I'm rambling, must be the flu.

Agreed but im sure we are drinking TORY TEA at the moment. Mate im all up for scrapping the benefit system for non - British citizens. Im a firm believer that all non brits should work three years first and not recieve a benefit until then . Taxes should be paid into the system and not given back when they decide to go home . Its a tradegy that the Labour government has spent more money than we had and led us into a recession. But i think Gordon Brown was like a teenager with a credit card a fookin loose cannon. Its a no win situation as the last goverment left a mess for the last one and so on and so forth. The only way out of it is going to be a lot of job cuts benefit reductions hospital closures less money spending the private sector its a shitty situation but what else can you do. We are billions in debt and printing more money just to keep afloat yet can lend Ireland millions it defies belief . We will always have clowns running the country

yes obviously things like policing and defence we would not have a full say on . But as for other important issues like housing , benefits, transport we would not have to go through a long drawn out process to pass a new law. Embrace this day as a new oppurtunity for Wales and its people. Change is good and long overdue Wales needed it.

so with Labour constantly being in charge in wales the outgoings for benefits will just become more and more and if you work and have no children at a early age you will have even less of a chance to get any kind of social housing because that is what Labour always have believed in. There will now be more cases of foerigners getting housing in wales in front of locals and people making a small fortune on benefits. If you think thats a good thing well I rest my case.

Due to Wales' attitude to constantly supporting Labour it will more or less be indirectly a one party nation.

I'm pretty sure Benefits are not devolved so that's a non issue.
These days anyone is lucky to get social housing due to Maggies policy of destroying social housing stock, and Labour's policy of building feck all new ones, but you and me have already gone down that road, and feck debating that on a sunny Friday afternoon.
Only 40 minutes left of work, CYMRU do the

The world would be a better place if we weere all WELSH

Oh CF14-SE14,

Now your boys have won, can you ask them nicely to stop screwing around with the clocks twice a year please? Never mind all the imigrants stealing your jobs, no houses, a crap transport infrastructure, etc sort out the really important things first. Get those clocks sorted now! The game will be live here tomorrow so it could seriously impinge on my Saturday night out as it will start at 6.20pm which is too early to go out as some bars don't close until 6/7 am or if I go out when it finishes, be around 9.00pm by the time I get into town meaning I'll have to pay entry tax into anywhere half rough

monmouthshire clearly feel they should be on the English side of the border. Very disappointing!

Next away trip towards the midlands or the north we should get off the bus in Monmouth and drive them out with pitchforks as a massive angry mob

Every Labour government in the UK has almost bankrupt the UK so why would a Labour WAG government be different..?

Well at the moment because they don't have a majority.
I'm not a fan of Labour in anyway but I trust Welsh Labour more than English New Labour and English Tories.

I'm not a fan of party politics in any shape of form, I'd rather a constant coalision of people with passion for their country a bit like the coalition in ww2.

Oh CF14-SE14,

Now your boys have won, can you ask them nicely to stop screwing around with the clocks twice a year please? Never mind all the imigrants stealing your jobs, no houses, a crap transport infrastructure, etc sort out the really important things first. Get those clocks sorted now! The game will be live here tomorrow so it could seriously impinge on my Saturday night out as it will start at 6.20pm which is too early to go out as some bars don't close until 6/7 am or if I go out when it finishes, be around 9.00pm by the time I get into town meaning I'll have to pay entry tax into anywhere half rough

My boys?
I support no party and no establishment.
But on clock changing I'm pretty sure that isn't one of the twenty devolved areas of law!
And yeah Denmark, like the rest of Scandinavia have huge benefits comparable to here and they still seem to be surviving / doing well mainly thanks to the lack of government decimating industry and supporting financial services and arms manufacturing instead, and lack of support for economic immigrants probably helps.
Anyway enough politics for me it's Friday afternoon.
Things I liked about Copenhagen - the girls, the beer, the weed sold openly in Kristiana, the cycling, the public transport, the parties and the beautiful buildings, and it's a great place to spend the summer so you'll enjoy that if your still there and it's much cheaper than the rest of Scandinavia.

Oh CF14-SE14,

Now your boys have won, can you ask them nicely to stop screwing around with the clocks twice a year please? Never mind all the imigrants stealing your jobs, no houses, a crap transport infrastructure, etc sort out the really important things first. Get those clocks sorted now! The game will be live here tomorrow so it could seriously impinge on my Saturday night out as it will start at 6.20pm which is too early to go out as some bars don't close until 6/7 am or if I go out when it finishes, be around 9.00pm by the time I get into town meaning I'll have to pay entry tax into anywhere half rough

My boys?
I support no party and no establishment.
But on clock changing I'm pretty sure that isn't one of the twenty devolved areas of law!
And yeah Denmark, like the rest of Scandinavia have huge benefits comparable to here and they still seem to be surviving / doing well mainly thanks to the lack of government decimating industry and supporting financial services and arms manufacturing instead, and lack of support for economic immigrants probably helps.
Anyway enough politics for me it's Friday afternoon.
Things I liked about Copenhagen - the girls, the beer, the weed sold openly in Kristiana, the cycling, the public transport, the parties and the beautiful buildings, and it's a great place to spend the summer so you'll enjoy that if your still there and it's much cheaper than the rest of Scandinavia.

The Swedish are better they have Koppaberg

LOL CF14,

Only joking on the "your boys" bit, as I said as I no longer live in Wales or the UK for that matter, its none of my business so whatever is best is best as they say.

Krisitiana is currently under attack by the Politicians, all very civilised at present as their discussing the imposition of Danish law in its entirety in Krisitiana. At present they have a lot of concessions, hence the availability of errrmmm herbal ciggarettes. One of the main issues is the planning regulations whereby the residents have run their own affairs for some considerable time, quite successfully I'm told, the government or local kommune want to knock some buildings down apparantly. From what I know, which isn't much I admit, this is not going to go down well especially if the bulldozers do move in as I'm told that most Copenhagen dwellers, even the rich, very much support the residents. Could get intersesting.

Who knows, in two years time, you bunch of hairy arsed buggers could be invading to watch Cardiff v FC Copenhagenski in the Europa League!!!!