Surely this has to be Jones's last chance if we miss out

The problem with Jones is not that we didn't get the 3 points yesterday - as we played well against a very good team and were unlucky not to get the win.

HOWEVER - the problem is that we should never have been in this position in the first place, where we were playing nip and tuck with a manager like Paul Lambert, who has had none of the riches at his disposal that we have had. We should at the very least have been in the same position as QPR, and in my view, higher than them.

Nevertheless, we still have a chance at the automatic position and also if we fail there, at the play-offs. Until that is over, then we all need to support the team.

I have been convinced for a long time that under Jones, we will never get up - I remain of that view and the next few weeks will determine if I am right or wrong - if I am worng no one will be happier than me.

My concern is, if I am right, that people will say that he has got us so far and should be given one more chance - and I am then utterly convinced it will be abother 2 seasons until we have a real chance at getting up (as next year will be written off in my view if he's still in charge) - that would be very hard to take.

I sung my heart out yesterday and will do so for the rest of the season in trying to support the team and despite my concerns, am prepared to put them behind me and hope we still have a chanc ethis year, BUT if I'm right, all I'd ask is please, please please, can he be gone at the end of this year.

I know where you are coming from fella,,,who know what is going on behind the scenes at CCFC.

good post

The problem with Jones is not that we didn't get the 3 points yesterday - as we played well against a very good team and were unlucky not to get the win.

HOWEVER - the problem is that we should never have been in this position in the first place, where we were playing nip and tuck with a manager like Paul Lambert, who has had none of the riches at his disposal that we have had. We should at the very least have been in the same position as QPR, and in my view, higher than them.

Nevertheless, we still have a chance at the automatic position and also if we fail there, at the play-offs. Until that is over, then we all need to support the team.

I have been convinced for a long time that under Jones, we will never get up - I remain of that view and the next few weeks will determine if I am right or wrong - if I am worng no one will be happier than me.

My concern is, if I am right, that people will say that he has got us so far and should be given one more chance - and I am then utterly convinced it will be abother 2 seasons until we have a real chance at getting up (as next year will be written off in my view if he's still in charge) - that would be very hard to take.

I sung my heart out yesterday and will do so for the rest of the season in trying to support the team and despite my concerns, am prepared to put them behind me and hope we still have a chanc ethis year, BUT if I'm right, all I'd ask is please, please please, can he be gone at the end of this year.

I understand exactly where you coming from because I like others have thought DJ should have gone after last years playoff final defeat but he didn't and yet again he has got us on the very edge of promotion. Having said that I think that most supporters will look back at this season and will have lots of "What If's".

Like what if we had turned up with a tactical plan against the Jacks at home and what if we had managed to hold onto the lead against Norwich, Barnsley, Burnley, Millwall and QPR. The answer is we would be level with QPR and looking forward to the party at home to Middlesbrough that we have ALL longed for but we didn't hold on in those games so we are left in a dogfight and time will tell if it's our season.

But yesterday we reached 76 points to equal the best total achieved in his near 6 years at the and 1 more point will mean he has continued to improve our League position season on season.

As much as I would like to see the back of the miserable tw*t you have to respect the fact we have improved year on year and I think in those terms it weakens the argument of getting rid of him.

I appreciate your points but cannot agree....

I maintain that this club would NOT have had the last 5 seasons we have IF Dave Jones had NOT been here....

Complacency often rules and the problem is we might only get to know how GOOD he actually is when he's gone....

SOME players don't like him (usually the ones who have let him down or won't conform) but I think you'll find 99.9% respect him, as DJthe private man is NOT the same as you see on TV/Radio....

Personally, I hope he's here next year regardless....!!

I generally accept the year on year improvement point, but how does that help us if we ultimatley fail at the final hurdle?

I have never thought that Jones is useless - he has many positive qualities, but getting over the line when it really matters doesn't appear to be one of his strengths - he achieved it once with Wolves, but one swallow and all that .........

He did very well initially with us, but getting over the line requires someone like Warnock, who has a very different temparament .... as I said initially, I hope I'm wrong this year, but I just fear I'm right.

I think he should be sacked if we didnt get the automatic.....get Holloway in from Blackpool in time for the playoffs. He'll be out of the job by then

There will be outrage if DJ is given another chance if we fail to go up.

If we fail I expect him to walk. He has been given everything and in my opinion it has been made easier for him as the years have gone by. This season is by far the weakest this league has been from many previous seasons. There are no yo yo clubs to compete with and lets be honest DJ is not having to work with a scamster is he?

If we fail I cannot see any valid reason why he should be given another chance.

sacking the manager is not that easy with him , players will go as well and any new manager would have to rebuild and promotion would be off the scale for a couple of years me thinks but then again jones is very predictable

I generally accept the year on year improvement point, but how does that help us if we ultimatley fail at the final hurdle?

I have never thought that Jones is useless - he has many positive qualities, but getting over the line when it really matters doesn't appear to be one of his strengths - he achieved it once with Wolves, but one swallow and all that .........

He did very well initially with us, but getting over the line requires someone like Warnock, who has a very different temparament .... as I said initially, I hope I'm wrong this year, but I just fear I'm right.

Again I appreciate your point BUT a few short years ago we could only DREAM of being where we are now. After the delays which cost Sam his Chairmanship and the fiasco that followed with Ridsdale, we are LUCKY to have a club at all....

Dave Jones has been a constant and consistent hand at the playing helm with a steady hand and skin like a Rhino to deflect some of the stuff that he has (from within the club, from the stands AND from people who have NEVER set foot inside the stadium preferring instead to criticise from their armchairs and the back of the Echo) and, to be frank, IMO it a lot (but not all) has been well OTT considering what he inherited and what he has brought to the club....

We ALL have failings and DJ is no different to anyone else, but I do believe that on balance he has been VERY good for the club (if not SOME supporters who will NEVER be happy AND a disgruntled local media) and will continue to keep us challenging for the ultimate prize of Premiership football....

We, as a club and supporters, have NO divine reight to Premiership football and we WILL have upsets along the way (none more so than last year) but we are moving forward; missing out narrowly on the play-offs 2 years ago, an ultimately 'lucky' play-off place after a poor end of season run last year and THIS year a safe and secure position in the Top 6 (usually top 2 or 3) ALL SEASON....

If THAT is NOT progress than I am not sure what PROGRESS is??

And gather one more thought....

IF we are fortunate enough to reach the promised land THIS year (and I, for one, am still confident we WILL) then what happens next?? Mediocrity in the Premiership will be seen as success and relegation will be seen as 'obvious'....BUT, if we are still in the Championship and winning more than we are losing and challenging for the top, wouldn't that perhaps be inifnitely better and a lot more entertaining??

It's just a thought....

Thanks for the debate....? I enjoyed it....

I think a lot here depends on the perspective that a club has and the resources/position its finds itself in.

For example, in the first few seasons Dave Jones did arguably (and I would generally accept) a very good job under difficult financial constraints in maintaining us in the mid table of the Championship, and threw in an FA Cup final to boot, which few of us would ever have expected in our wildest dreams a few years ago. This was clearly a massive achievement and Jones has to be congratulated.

However, even during that period, there were ths signs there as well of his frailty.

For example, in 2006, we arguably over achieved up until November (perhaps it could be argued in a similar way to what Norwich have done this season). But having done that, we were then in a position where we had played most of the best teams once, and had a run of about 2-3 months where we were only playing the lesser teams - we then completely crumbled and lost to the likes of Southend in Ninian Park and had horrendous draws wqith the likes of Colchester at home as well. Rather than do what Norwich have done this season, we then fell down the league and finished in about 13th position when we should ate the very least have cemented a play-off place given the amazing start we'd had.

Was that season a success or a failure - I'd argue holisitically it was a success for a team with the financial issues we had at the time - BUT it showed a weakness in Jones's abilities as well, as he failed to capitalise on an amazing position, and we clearly lacked a strong mental side to take advantage on the position we were in.

Similarly, for the Cup Final - an amazing achievment, but given the hand we had been dealt, we should have played a more positive game - started with Ramsey who would have run rings around the older Portsmouth defence on the big Wembley pitch and brought Hasselbaink on in the 2nd half, when his strengths (generally a very skillful player) would have been accentuated and his weaknesses (lack of pace) would have been less of a problem as fatigue would have set in for all the other players. Again, was this a success? I would say yes, as I never thought I'd see my team in an FA Cup final when I was growing up - but it does show a mental frailty in Jones, in my view.

Fast forward then to the last 3 seasons, and we've been in a position in those years where we've been at the upper echelons of the Championship (and I concede the thanks for that goes to Jones) - but in my view, he always seems to fail at the final hurdle - the horrendous collapse 2 years ago seeing us miss out on the play-offs, the debacle at Wembley last year, and this year, if we fail to go up (and I know that's a big if) there will have to have been 2 failures, as we should have got the automatic slot and we would also have failed through the play-offs, and all of this in a season where there are no major players in the Championship - we may not be so lucky again!

None of us want this to happen, but we may have to face the reality of it in late May. All I'm saying is that, despite Jones's attributes, if that happens, then we should get someone like a Warnock or Holloway in who have a better mental ability at doing the hardest things of all, and that is, getting over the finishing line, which is the one area where I fear Jones is at his weakest.

All we can do up until late May (or hopefully early May at Burnley) is vocally support the team and Jones as much as its humanly possible to do so - but if we do fail, then that is the point that I would say we have to get someone else in to do the job. If we hadn't had Bellamy and the backing from the Malaysians etc. then I think Jones would do a great job at maintaining us in the Championship, even against great odds, and I would be taking a different slant on all this. However, we are now in a different position, and I just fear he's not the man for the job of getting us over the line. I just hope he proves me wrong in the next few weeks.