Forensics taking their time!

How long ago was it now that the club issued a statement taking about forensic accountants coming in?
Still not heard anything?

In that statement they made a damming infer that Sam was up to no good and inferred that the debt wasn’t somehow real. They did it without actually saying it in a bit of a gutless way to be fair. If anyone has anything to say at least grow a pair and say it.

These accountants were being brought in to uncover all sorts of dirt. Well they’ve had long enough, where is it then?
Seems to me that the club have two choices now. Either they show us some dirt or they make an unreserved apology to Sam. Thing is, love Sam or hate him, you don’t make statements about anyone unless you can back it up with hard evidence. And before anyone says that it takes longer than this, well put it this way, if there was anything to find then they would have found it by now and they’d be crowing from the mountain tops about it. You wouldn’t be able to load the official site with the amount of “statements” on there.

Fact is, there isn’t anything to find. I know this and so do they. The ironic part here is the Financial Director at the club doing the accounts for Sam now works for PMG, he has done for a few years. That’s all they’ve got to do is pop over the road there to the PMG offices and ask him if he did anything dodgy when at Cardiff. Simple as that. I know nothing dodgy went on because that accountant is as straight and as honest as they come. There’s no way would he have risked his own integrity for a start and I’m sure he’d be accountable. Thing is when the club makes statements inferring wrong doing then they also point the finger at the accountants there at the time. That’s not fair and I think they owe those an apology as well.
With regards to these share deals going on. Lots of people are saying how wonderful they are without knowing any of the details about the deals. These same people are lightning fast to jump on the “show me the facts and details” wagon when it suits yet now they are crowing like hell. Fact is no one knows yet what deals were put on the table to each party and how much those deals differed between parties.

Each creditor has a completely different deal as far as their investments go. So surely it’s only fair to assume the share deal to each party would be different. Maybe if the deal offered to Sam was offered to PMG then they’d tell them to do one because they wouldn’t be happy with it.

When Sam was forced out he was the major share owner, but the first thing the club did was to devalue the shares which made Sam a minor share owner and of course no longer owner.

Now I bet you a million dollars that PMG have a deal in place, some document somewhere, that secures their investment from that happening to them. They’d be really f*cking stupid not to. I would and so would everyone else with half a brain.
Now what assurances are being offered to other parties such as Langston? I don’t know, and neither do any of those crowing about these share deals. You can bet your arse though that the deal is massively different to the one offered to PMG. The fact that PMG are doing the share thing means absolutely nothing to anyone else involved. I would assume some deals are nicer than others, surely they would be because PMG are a major power in this and so the deal offered to them would be far sweeter than offered to other investors.

So before anyone crows about the share deals, give us ALL the facts about ALL the deals being offered so that we can ALL see for ourselves. Until you get those facts, I suggest you take the advice that you keep dishing out about getting facts right first and backing them up with real hard evidence.

Berwyn,

Forensic accountancy takes time, if ever transaction being made under Hammam is being traced then that's a hell of a lot of things to cover. it's all very well claiming they'd have found things by now but seriously, get real. They may well have found things, they may not by now. You don't know that any more than I do.

But one thing I do know is that no forensic accountant is dumb enough, acting on client instructions would imply stop looking after finding something. Nothing will be resolved either way, until everything has been looked at. One thing is for sure, these Malaysians are thorough.

As for the account being straight and honest, that's not necessarily in question. An accountant working for the club can only go on the figures provided to him. In the unlikely event he'd been provided with a false set of figures, his final figures would obviously be incorrect, doesn't mean he's dodgy himself, does it?

What I don't buy is that Hammam loved the club so much he'd willingly accept only 10m, writing off 14m. That just seems somewhat incredible to believe. That does tend to ring alarm bells as to the true size of the debt. Time will tell.

For reference, Warrior, I've been owed money by a company which went into liquidation. Forensic accountants have been pouring over the circumstances, it's been over a year due to the complexity.

It'll be completed when it's completed. Based upon the actions of the Malaysians so far, converting their loans to equity, I've every faith in the Malaysians acting in the best interests of the club.

You will not find anything after a few weeks, forensic accounting will take months or even years, depending how big the account and the organisation is. They will have to investigate each report, statemenets, invoices etc carefully, and how they link together. This is no easy task, we'll be waiting a good while for this. Considering the time range they'll be investtigating, this may take some time.

Sooner this is out of the way the better !

Sam's plan was obviously to pick the club up for next to nothing when it eventually fell into administration as The mysterious langstone would be the major creditors. Of course this never happened unlike Swansea and Hull to name two clubs who cleared their debt's for nothing, restructured and made it to the premier league

They'll take as long as it takes. How can you expect an answer in just a few weeks? It'll take months!

Sam Hammam deserves f-all in my opinion. He wasted millions and ran the club like a parks team with an inner circle. The club is finally being run correctly and I for one thank VT, TG and GJ for all their hard work especially their professionalism and can't wait for next season!

Pro sam agenda...

How long ago was it now that the club issued a statement taking about forensic accountants coming in?
Still not heard anything?

In that statement they made a damming infer that Sam was up to no good and inferred that the debt wasn’t somehow real. They did it without actually saying it in a bit of a gutless way to be fair. If anyone has anything to say at least grow a pair and say it.

These accountants were being brought in to uncover all sorts of dirt. Well they’ve had long enough, where is it then?
Seems to me that the club have two choices now. Either they show us some dirt or they make an unreserved apology to Sam. Thing is, love Sam or hate him, you don’t make statements about anyone unless you can back it up with hard evidence. And before anyone says that it takes longer than this, well put it this way, if there was anything to find then they would have found it by now and they’d be crowing from the mountain tops about it. You wouldn’t be able to load the official site with the amount of “statements” on there.

Fact is, there isn’t anything to find. I know this and so do they. The ironic part here is the Financial Director at the club doing the accounts for Sam now works for PMG, he has done for a few years. That’s all they’ve got to do is pop over the road there to the PMG offices and ask him if he did anything dodgy when at Cardiff. Simple as that. I know nothing dodgy went on because that accountant is as straight and as honest as they come. There’s no way would he have risked his own integrity for a start and I’m sure he’d be accountable. Thing is when the club makes statements inferring wrong doing then they also point the finger at the accountants there at the time. That’s not fair and I think they owe those an apology as well.
With regards to these share deals going on. Lots of people are saying how wonderful they are without knowing any of the details about the deals. These same people are lightning fast to jump on the “show me the facts and details” wagon when it suits yet now they are crowing like hell. Fact is no one knows yet what deals were put on the table to each party and how much those deals differed between parties.

Each creditor has a completely different deal as far as their investments go. So surely it’s only fair to assume the share deal to each party would be different. Maybe if the deal offered to Sam was offered to PMG then they’d tell them to do one because they wouldn’t be happy with it.

When Sam was forced out he was the major share owner, but the first thing the club did was to devalue the shares which made Sam a minor share owner and of course no longer owner.

Now I bet you a million dollars that PMG have a deal in place, some document somewhere, that secures their investment from that happening to them. They’d be really f*cking stupid not to. I would and so would everyone else with half a brain.
Now what assurances are being offered to other parties such as Langston? I don’t know, and neither do any of those crowing about these share deals. You can bet your arse though that the deal is massively different to the one offered to PMG. The fact that PMG are doing the share thing means absolutely nothing to anyone else involved. I would assume some deals are nicer than others, surely they would be because PMG are a major power in this and so the deal offered to them would be far sweeter than offered to other investors.

So before anyone crows about the share deals, give us ALL the facts about ALL the deals being offered so that we can ALL see for ourselves. Until you get those facts, I suggest you take the advice that you keep dishing out about getting facts right first and backing them up with real hard evidence.

Bizarre.

This share deal is very good for the club. How on earth you can say it isn't I cannot understand. £9m of debt turned to equity. Its FACT - anything going on behind the scenes will be beyond most of us, so dealing with the fact that £9m has come off our debt with the potential for another £20m makes me very happy indeed.

As for Sam, I don't really care 1 way or another -all I care about is our clubs future and it looks to me that the outlook is getting better and better.
As for langston, we'd all like to see it sorted, but its likely to take ages yet.

How long ago was it now that the club issued a statement taking about forensic accountants coming in?
Still not heard anything?

In that statement they made a damming infer that Sam was up to no good and inferred that the debt wasn’t somehow real. They did it without actually saying it in a bit of a gutless way to be fair. If anyone has anything to say at least grow a pair and say it.

These accountants were being brought in to uncover all sorts of dirt. Well they’ve had long enough, where is it then?
Seems to me that the club have two choices now. Either they show us some dirt or they make an unreserved apology to Sam. Thing is, love Sam or hate him, you don’t make statements about anyone unless you can back it up with hard evidence. And before anyone says that it takes longer than this, well put it this way, if there was anything to find then they would have found it by now and they’d be crowing from the mountain tops about it. You wouldn’t be able to load the official site with the amount of “statements” on there.

Fact is, there isn’t anything to find. I know this and so do they. The ironic part here is the Financial Director at the club doing the accounts for Sam now works for PMG, he has done for a few years. That’s all they’ve got to do is pop over the road there to the PMG offices and ask him if he did anything dodgy when at Cardiff. Simple as that. I know nothing dodgy went on because that accountant is as straight and as honest as they come. There’s no way would he have risked his own integrity for a start and I’m sure he’d be accountable. Thing is when the club makes statements inferring wrong doing then they also point the finger at the accountants there at the time. That’s not fair and I think they owe those an apology as well.
With regards to these share deals going on. Lots of people are saying how wonderful they are without knowing any of the details about the deals. These same people are lightning fast to jump on the “show me the facts and details” wagon when it suits yet now they are crowing like hell. Fact is no one knows yet what deals were put on the table to each party and how much those deals differed between parties.

Each creditor has a completely different deal as far as their investments go. So surely it’s only fair to assume the share deal to each party would be different. Maybe if the deal offered to Sam was offered to PMG then they’d tell them to do one because they wouldn’t be happy with it.

When Sam was forced out he was the major share owner, but the first thing the club did was to devalue the shares which made Sam a minor share owner and of course no longer owner.

Now I bet you a million dollars that PMG have a deal in place, some document somewhere, that secures their investment from that happening to them. They’d be really f*cking stupid not to. I would and so would everyone else with half a brain.
Now what assurances are being offered to other parties such as Langston? I don’t know, and neither do any of those crowing about these share deals. You can bet your arse though that the deal is massively different to the one offered to PMG. The fact that PMG are doing the share thing means absolutely nothing to anyone else involved. I would assume some deals are nicer than others, surely they would be because PMG are a major power in this and so the deal offered to them would be far sweeter than offered to other investors.

So before anyone crows about the share deals, give us ALL the facts about ALL the deals being offered so that we can ALL see for ourselves. Until you get those facts, I suggest you take the advice that you keep dishing out about getting facts right first and backing them up with real hard evidence.

Sorry I did not read all of your post as it comes across as someone very close to Sam H or even Sam himself seriously, these things take time and to call our Malaysian friends gutless is pretty poor. (I stopped reading at this point!) These people are keeping our club ticking along very nicely sorting debts out one by one with todays share news another fantastic piece of news and work! The Langstone debt will be sorted only when the accountants have checked it at and who can blame them as you never know what might be found! I for one will be satisfied to hear no more from Langstone/Sam as the club continues to build!

Bizarre.

This share deal is very good for the club. How on earth you can say it isn't I cannot understand. £9m of debt turned to equity. Its FACT - anything going on behind the scenes will be beyond most of us, so dealing with the fact that £9m has come off our debt with the potential for another £20m makes me very happy indeed.

As for Sam, I don't really care 1 way or another -all I care about is our clubs future and it looks to me that the outlook is getting better and better.
As for langston, we'd all like to see it sorted, but its likely to take ages yet.

Bizarre? I tell you is bizarre is how you can read my post and pluck things that I never said. Show me where exactly it says that the share deal isn't good for the club? I did not say that. What I have said is a deal which might be good for PMG might not be good for other investors, especially if the deal is very different. So it's not fair to judge anyone without knowing the full facts.

Regards time, I know full well as do everyone else that this is just a delay tactic and nothing more. What I will say though is if it takes that much of an accountants time then I'd be quite worried about the bill. The amount that those robbing sods charge, the club might end up owing them more than Langston. Wasted money in my eyes when we all know there's nothing to find. Plus it just drags it out longer and longer when I think everyone justs wants an end to it all.

So when should I pop back for an update? Next month, next year, or 5 years maybe?

Bizarre.

This share deal is very good for the club. How on earth you can say it isn't I cannot understand. £9m of debt turned to equity. Its FACT - anything going on behind the scenes will be beyond most of us, so dealing with the fact that £9m has come off our debt with the potential for another £20m makes me very happy indeed.

As for Sam, I don't really care 1 way or another -all I care about is our clubs future and it looks to me that the outlook is getting better and better.
As for langston, we'd all like to see it sorted, but its likely to take ages yet.

Bizarre? I tell you is bizarre is how you can read my post and pluck things that I never said. Show me where exactly it says that the share deal isn't good for the club? I did not say that. What I have said is a deal which might be good for PMG might not be good for other investors, especially if the deal is very different. So it's not fair to judge anyone without knowing the full facts.

Regards time, I know full well as do everyone else that this is just a delay tactic and nothing more. What I will say though is if it takes that much of an accountants time then I'd be quite worried about the bill. The amount that those robbing sods charge, the club might end up owing them more than Langston. Wasted money in my eyes when we all know there's nothing to find. Plus it just drags it out longer and longer when I think everyone justs wants an end to it all.

So when should I pop back for an update? Next month, next year, or 5 years maybe?

We all know there's nothing to find?

I assume you're thus a qualified accountant specialising in the forensic side of things and have have the time and opportunity to assess the evidence of each and every transaction from Sam's era?

Of course you're not and haven't.

What you mean is you hope nothing is found. Me, I'm ambivalent. If something is found, then that reflects pretty badly on Hammam and some people may need to reassess their view of him. If nothing is found, great, pay Langston what is owed.

The forensic accountants brought in have been brought in on an independent basis to provide a report which would be accepted as evidence in any court case. That would tend to indicate that they are covering all bases should any court action occur. If they've found things, then they want them independently documented in preparation of any case. If the Malaysians haven't found anything themselves, then they would would want that noted so all parties are left knowing precisely where things stand.

As I've said before, it does strike me as extremely odd Hammam, oops, Langston would accept 10m down from 24m. That may well have rung bells in the Malaysians heads as to why such a reduction would be acceptable to Langston. And canny businessmen which the Malaysians appear to be would ask themselves if that's the minimum Langston would accept and why.

As I've said before, it does strike me as extremely odd Hammam, oops, Langston would accept 10m down from 24m. That may well have rung bells in the Malaysians heads as to why such a reduction would be acceptable to Langston. And canny businessmen which the Malaysians appear to be would ask themselves if that's the minimum Langston would accept and why.

So then we can assume that you are either Malaysian or Langston? How else would you know so much about that deal? There could have been all sorts as part of that deal for all we know. The fact that it wasn't agreed gives nothing that anyone can assume as to why.

How long ago was it now that the club issued a statement taking about forensic accountants coming in?
Still not heard anything?

In that statement they made a damming infer that Sam was up to no good and inferred that the debt wasn’t somehow real. They did it without actually saying it in a bit of a gutless way to be fair. If anyone has anything to say at least grow a pair and say it.

These accountants were being brought in to uncover all sorts of dirt. Well they’ve had long enough, where is it then?
Seems to me that the club have two choices now. Either they show us some dirt or they make an unreserved apology to Sam. Thing is, love Sam or hate him, you don’t make statements about anyone unless you can back it up with hard evidence. And before anyone says that it takes longer than this, well put it this way, if there was anything to find then they would have found it by now and they’d be crowing from the mountain tops about it. You wouldn’t be able to load the official site with the amount of “statements” on there.Fact is, there isn’t anything to find. I know this and so do they. The ironic part here is the Financial Director at the club doing the accounts for Sam now works for PMG, he has done for a few years. That’s all they’ve got to do is pop over the road there to the PMG offices and ask him if he did anything dodgy when at Cardiff. Simple as that. I know nothing dodgy went on because that accountant is as straight and as honest as they come. There’s no way would he have risked his own integrity for a start and I’m sure he’d be accountable. Thing is when the club makes statements inferring wrong doing then they also point the finger at the accountants there at the time. That’s not fair and I think they owe those an apology as well.
With regards to these share deals going on. Lots of people are saying how wonderful they are without knowing any of the details about the deals. These same people are lightning fast to jump on the “show me the facts and details” wagon when it suits yet now they are crowing like hell. Fact is no one knows yet what deals were put on the table to each party and how much those deals differed between parties.

Each creditor has a completely different deal as far as their investments go. So surely it’s only fair to assume the share deal to each party would be different. Maybe if the deal offered to Sam was offered to PMG then they’d tell them to do one because they wouldn’t be happy with it.

When Sam was forced out he was the major share owner, but the first thing the club did was to devalue the shares which made Sam a minor share owner and of course no longer owner.

Now I bet you a million dollars that PMG have a deal in place, some document somewhere, that secures their investment from that happening to them. They’d be really f*cking stupid not to. I would and so would everyone else with half a brain.
Now what assurances are being offered to other parties such as Langston? I don’t know, and neither do any of those crowing about these share deals. You can bet your arse though that the deal is massively different to the one offered to PMG. The fact that PMG are doing the share thing means absolutely nothing to anyone else involved. I would assume some deals are nicer than others, surely they would be because PMG are a major power in this and so the deal offered to them would be far sweeter than offered to other investors.

So before anyone crows about the share deals, give us ALL the facts about ALL the deals being offered so that we can ALL see for ourselves. Until you get those facts, I suggest you take the advice that you keep dishing out about getting facts right first and backing them up with real hard evidence.

if anything is found im sure they will wait to bring it up in any court case or similiar the malaysians wont just start shouting about it..

Bizarre.

This share deal is very good for the club. How on earth you can say it isn't I cannot understand. £9m of debt turned to equity. Its FACT - anything going on behind the scenes will be beyond most of us, so dealing with the fact that £9m has come off our debt with the potential for another £20m makes me very happy indeed.

As for Sam, I don't really care 1 way or another -all I care about is our clubs future and it looks to me that the outlook is getting better and better.
As for langston, we'd all like to see it sorted, but its likely to take ages yet.

Bizarre? I tell you is bizarre is how you can read my post and pluck things that I never said. Show me where exactly it says that the share deal isn't good for the club? I did not say that. What I have said is a deal which might be good for PMG might not be good for other investors, especially if the deal is very different. So it's not fair to judge anyone without knowing the full facts.

Regards time, I know full well as do everyone else that this is just a delay tactic and nothing more. What I will say though is if it takes that much of an accountants time then I'd be quite worried about the bill. The amount that those robbing sods charge, the club might end up owing them more than Langston. Wasted money in my eyes when we all know there's nothing to find. Plus it just drags it out longer and longer when I think everyone justs wants an end to it all.

So when should I pop back for an update? Next month, next year, or 5 years maybe?

You whinged about the share issue, on a long drawn out message full of assumptions, that suggests to me you aren't happy about it. Especially as it clearly isn't a problem for anyone else.

As for PMG, they are buying the shares at the same price as everyone else is -what else do you need to know.

Finally you are the one carrying out guesswork saying the forensic accountants are just a 'delaying tactic'. I'm amazed that you know everything thats gone through the books, the club could have saved a fortune and just asked you as you clearly know just how the debt was ammassed so quickly and who got paid what in consultancy fees for the stadium application and who was on the wage bill of the club !!

As I've said before, it does strike me as extremely odd Hammam, oops, Langston would accept 10m down from 24m. That may well have rung bells in the Malaysians heads as to why such a reduction would be acceptable to Langston. And canny businessmen which the Malaysians appear to be would ask themselves if that's the minimum Langston would accept and why.

So then we can assume that you are either Malaysian or Langston? How else would you know so much about that deal? There could have been all sorts as part of that deal for all we know. The fact that it wasn't agreed gives nothing that anyone can assume as to why.

I based that view upon the deal which seems to be the most agreed upon / accepted version of the million or so out there.

So, if you're accepting on that score a position of "who knows", why are you so utterly, totally, 100% guaran-damn-teed confident there's nothing that would show up under forensic scrutiny?

As I've said before, it does strike me as extremely odd Hammam, oops, Langston would accept 10m down from 24m. That may well have rung bells in the Malaysians heads as to why such a reduction would be acceptable to Langston. And canny businessmen which the Malaysians appear to be would ask themselves if that's the minimum Langston would accept and why.

So then we can assume that you are either Malaysian or Langston? How else would you know so much about that deal? There could have been all sorts as part of that deal for all we know. The fact that it wasn't agreed gives nothing that anyone can assume as to why.

I based that view upon the deal which seems to be the most agreed upon / accepted version of the million or so out there.

So, if you're accepting on that score a position of "who knows", why are you so utterly, totally, 100% guaran-damn-teed confident there's nothing that would show up under forensic scrutiny?

Because, like I said in the opening post, the FD there at the time is the most anal bloke I've ever met. He would have resigned first before doing anything dodgy. He's as straight and as honest as they come, simple really. As a Financial Director I take it he's accountable for what he does?