Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:35 pm
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:14 pm
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:36 pm
Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:58 am
grange_end1927 wrote:Great away day yesterday but why do we still get Cardiff on Cardiff fighting in the ground I really don't understand it we are ccfc together as one, personal problems fine sort it out away from the ground not bring it to the game seen a few happen yesterday please we are all one ccfc family.
It makes my blood boil, three different fights our own fans
Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:09 am
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:48 am
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:53 am
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:38 am
TERRYB wrote:grange_end1927 wrote:Great away day yesterday but why do we still get Cardiff on Cardiff fighting in the ground I really don't understand it we are ccfc together as one, personal problems fine sort it out away from the ground not bring it to the game seen a few happen yesterday please we are all one ccfc family.
It makes my blood boil, three different fights our own fans
Sad to say but at our away games you are more likely to see fights with Cardiff v Cardiff and it's happening regularly.
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:46 am
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:38 am
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:27 pm
wakey77 wrote:Surely they should be identified and banned
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:38 pm
SirJimmySchoular wrote:It's a problem you can't solve. A lot of it is to do with our strange society where young men have no legitimate outlet for their natural aggression or competitive nature.
They face constant vilification and marginalisation from the establishment and the media and have little chance of personal achievement in a country which has ceased all productive activity, abandoned family structures, and rejected morality and religion .
Now, even in a sane and decent society we couldn't have them jumping about like angry chimps in public places, and of course we therefore need to come down hard on such behaviour , but let's not forget that these are the same sort of young men who have fought and died over a thousand years for this country and its former values before we allowed greedy lunatics to take control. As such they represent any lingering hope of a more wholesome and civilised future, and they deserve as their birthright to be included in society instead of being constantly scapegoated by the media and establishment.
In short, whilst we must in the short term try to prevent this sort of ridiculous and actually criminal behaviour, we can't be surprised if these people feel deeply angry and resentful , or that these frustrations come bursting out on the rare occasions ,such as football matches, when they are allowed to behave naturally and speak freely in the company of other young men.
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:55 pm
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:22 pm
Bluesman wrote:These are the fans who never normally go to away games. They get their tickets from friends who are eligible to go but do not go. Tighten up on ticket sales and the passing on of tickets.
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:27 pm
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:13 pm
Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:24 pm
jon1959 wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:It's a problem you can't solve. A lot of it is to do with our strange society where young men have no legitimate outlet for their natural aggression or competitive nature.
They face constant vilification and marginalisation from the establishment and the media and have little chance of personal achievement in a country which has ceased all productive activity, abandoned family structures, and rejected morality and religion .
Now, even in a sane and decent society we couldn't have them jumping about like angry chimps in public places, and of course we therefore need to come down hard on such behaviour , but let's not forget that these are the same sort of young men who have fought and died over a thousand years for this country and its former values before we allowed greedy lunatics to take control. As such they represent any lingering hope of a more wholesome and civilised future, and they deserve as their birthright to be included in society instead of being constantly scapegoated by the media and establishment.
In short, whilst we must in the short term try to prevent this sort of ridiculous and actually criminal behaviour, we can't be surprised if these people feel deeply angry and resentful , or that these frustrations come bursting out on the rare occasions ,such as football matches, when they are allowed to behave naturally and speak freely in the company of other young men.
Total tripe.
There are plenty of 'legitimate outlets' for young men (and young women) to test their 'competitive nature', but the way you talk about 'natural aggression' (and the space to speak and act aggressively) makes them sound like wild animals. That is crass and insulting. I agree that many people feel excluded by the loss of industrial jobs, weaker family ties and a breakdown in the support that communities gave to earlier generations, and you could argue that governments and shadowy elites have allowed that to happen, but I hope the answer is something different (for most people) to the army or religion.
You seem to be condemning and excusing at the same time drunken or drugged up violence by a minority of our away fans!
Out of interest, when do you think greedy lunatics did not control this country? I don't mean governments or Prime Ministers (plenty of scope to argue about most of them - and they are important), but the people with real power who own the money, own the land, the media, the major employers.... From the robber barons of the middle ages to the zero hours employers today there was never a golden age of benevolent, enlightened people calling the shots.
Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:28 pm
Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:48 pm
jon1959 wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:It's a problem you can't solve. A lot of it is to do with our strange society where young men have no legitimate outlet for their natural aggression or competitive nature.
They face constant vilification and marginalisation from the establishment and the media and have little chance of personal achievement in a country which has ceased all productive activity, abandoned family structures, and rejected morality and religion .
Now, even in a sane and decent society we couldn't have them jumping about like angry chimps in public places, and of course we therefore need to come down hard on such behaviour , but let's not forget that these are the same sort of young men who have fought and died over a thousand years for this country and its former values before we allowed greedy lunatics to take control. As such they represent any lingering hope of a more wholesome and civilised future, and they deserve as their birthright to be included in society instead of being constantly scapegoated by the media and establishment.
In short, whilst we must in the short term try to prevent this sort of ridiculous and actually criminal behaviour, we can't be surprised if these people feel deeply angry and resentful , or that these frustrations come bursting out on the rare occasions ,such as football matches, when they are allowed to behave naturally and speak freely in the company of other young men.
Total tripe.
There are plenty of 'legitimate outlets' for young men (and young women) to test their 'competitive nature', but the way you talk about 'natural aggression' (and the space to speak and act aggressively) makes them sound like wild animals. That is crass and insulting. I agree that many people feel excluded by the loss of industrial jobs, weaker family ties and a breakdown in the support that communities gave to earlier generations, and you could argue that governments and shadowy elites have allowed that to happen, but I hope the answer is something different (for most people) to the army or religion.
You seem to be condemning and excusing at the same time drunken or drugged up violence by a minority of our away fans!
Out of interest, when do you think greedy lunatics did not control this country? I don't mean governments or Prime Ministers (plenty of scope to argue about most of them - and they are important), but the people with real power who own the money, own the land, the media, the major employers.... From the robber barons of the middle ages to the zero hours employers today there was never a golden age of benevolent, enlightened people calling the shots.
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:16 pm
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:01 pm
Sven wrote:Seemed to be a lot of drunk (or maybe high) supporters at the game and a bit of a pack mentality amongst the younger element; particularly near the bars but didn't see too much in the way of trouble other than one guy 'challenging' another from about 100 yards knowing he wouldn't get anywhere near him!
Was more disturbed that at least two complete dunderheads thought it was 'fair game' to throw cigarette lighters at the Chelsea payers after they scored their goal!
Whilst I agree that the Chelsea players goaded our very vocal support (we'd never dream of such a thing, would we?) by celebrating in front of us after the goal, there are some things you just don't do and which could have cost this club a fine or worse!
Thankfully, the Chelsea players didn't make too much of it and I'm not sure it went into the referees report!
Grow up, people before you cause a major problem!
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:11 am
jon1959 wrote:We are not going to agree, but before I go back to my 'ilk' to join the yoghurt knitting circle, I'll leave you with this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(feudalism)
Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:52 pm
Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:41 pm
nubbsy wrote:Yeah some jumped up fat wanker giving it the big one.
Worst part of it was what looked like his son (maybe 18 years old) following him around looking petrified trying to keep him out of trouble!
Probably his first away game in 5 years.
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:50 pm
SirJimmySchoular wrote:jon1959 wrote:We are not going to agree, but before I go back to my 'ilk' to join the yoghurt knitting circle, I'll leave you with this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(feudalism)
Well that link just says there's no entry for Robber Baron ( feudalism) which isn't surprising because it's got nothing to do with feudalism or ,as you originally suggested, the Middle Ages. It's a term used for 19th and early 20th century American tycoons who became immensely rich and attempted with varying degrees of success to exert influence on home and foreign policies.
Interestingly enough , since you touch upon the subject of such unseen influences upon public policy and government, one of these men was J.P Morgan and he was a pretty significant figure in this sort of thing, as is the company and organisation he left behind. However, the Barons , and aristocracy generally of feudal times with whom you seem to be confusing these characters were very much the victims of similar machinations.
During the 100 years war and for periods before and after it, these aristocrats were the legitimate governing group, but were subverted and undermined by the Lombards and other bankers / money lenders who provided the funds for their wars and weapons , often conspiring behind the scenes to create the wars and conflicts which creates their markets for this. We can see the same ideas being used today with the development of what ghastly been called the military industrial complex.
Look, don't be offended - it's a great thing that we can have such discussions and there's no requirement that everyone has to agree on every little bit of the conversation . Maybe a football forum isn't the place to do it exactly, but it's nonetheless interesting and makes a change from the offside rule .