Did Harry Kane influence the Ref?
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:45 pm
The Joe Ralls Cardiff City red card controversy analysed: What the law says, did Harry Kane really influence the ref?
By Paul Abbdanato
Monday 8th October 2018
It took eight matches before Cardiff City and Neil Warnock had their first major controversy of the Premier League season, but talk about going in with two feet when it did happen - if you'll pardon the pun.
Joe Ralls' red card controversy at Tottenham has split the Bluebirds' fan base. Many felt he had to go, others are adamant referee Mike Dean's decision was harsh.
Warnock felt his side were punished because they're 'little old Cardiff' and that Dean was influenced too much by his assistants.
Throw in the involvement of England captain Harry Kane, who Warnock furiously accused of helping get Ralls sent off with his own follow-up actions, and it was a right old Wembley cocktail.
But was the correct decision arrived at as the gallant Bluebirds fell to a 1-0 defeat? This is the lowdown of what happened and why...
THE CHALLENGE
It's the 58th minute when Cardiff lose possession tight by the left touchline in Spurs' half. Lucas Moura collects the ball and knocks it past Ralls, then races inside him.
Ralls has a two yard start, but Moura is lightning quick and it's no contest. He's away. Other Cardiff defenders are back, but left-back Joe Bennett is out of position ahead of play.
Ralls sizes up the situation in an instant, looks up at Moura, sticks out a left leg and scythes him down. The ball is a few yards further forward and Ralls makes no attempt whatsoever to play it.
THE KANE HULLABALOO
Spurs players are furious and Kane rushes over straight away to lead the protests. He puts two hands on Ralls' shoulders and then around his chest - no idea why. Kieran Tripper also races across to say his two pennies' worth to Ralls.
Cardiff captain Sean Morrison arrives at the scene, protects Ralls and ushers Trippier away.
By this stage Eric Dier - a third England World Cup player - is protesting at Dean. The Spurs centre-backs Davison Sanchez and Toby Alderweireld have also arrived on the scene to make their feelings known.
Warnock was infuriated by the actions of the Tottenham players, led by Kane, saying afterwards you're not meant to surround the referee these days.
He called Kane a name, while sarcastically saying 'Well done Harry.' Afterwards Warnock said Kane should not have acted like that, hinting that as England captain he had to be setting a better example.
Warnock loves Kane as a player, but he also goaded him a little, throwing in the line 'Just because he was having a poor game...'
And he was. Kane was desperate to score, given Cardiff are bizarrely the only Premier League side he has never netted against, but Morrison was superb. He and Sol Bamba handled the Kane threat well throughout the 90 minutes.
DID KANE AND HIS SPURS TEAM-MATES INFLUENCE THE REF?
Once the fuss had subsided, Mike Dean brandished a straight red.
Harry Arter leads Cardiff's protests. He told Wales Online afterwards that Dean had initially been reaching for a yellow card.
It could have been, of course, that Dean was simply trying to find the red card and they were stuck together in his pocket.
Neil Warnock talks with Tottenham Hotspur players after Joe Ralls' red card... (Image: Getty Images Europe)
... while Ralls walks down the tunnel (Image: PA)
What Kane and his team-mates did was unsavoury. To be fair to Kane, it's also a little out of character.
But it's far more likely, if he did change his mind, that Dean was influenced by the linesman on that side of the field.
Let's be frank - it was a horrible challenge. Reckless and dangerous.
Warnock is right though, the Spurs players should not have got involved in the manner that they did.
THE LAW
Dean's official report to the FAW will determine exactly what Ralls was sent off for, but there are two areas of Law 12 he could have fallen foul of (again, no pun intended) and which constitute a red card.
The first is: "A tackle or challenge that endangers an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as foul play.
"Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind, with excessive force or endangers an opponent is guilty of foul play."
The other comes under violent conduct and the law reads: "When a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball..."
According to the rulebook, careless and reckless challenges are deemed only yellow card offences, but using excessive force is a red. This is where the confusion arises in Ralls' case - was it simply careless and reckless, or was excessive force used?
THE FANS' VERDICT
You can't say scientifically Cardiff supporters are split down the middle on this issue, but there is no doubt it has divided opinion.
Many argue the decision was harsh, a yellow at most, and had the boot been on the other foot Moura would not have been sent off.
Others counter the referee was totally justified, it was a terrible and needless challenge and Ralls had to go. They argue he'd let down the team and Warnock should be having a go at him, not the referee.
Well, we did say it's split opinion.
THE PUNDITS' VERDICT
As above. Some like Pat Nevin were indicating it was harsh and that the referee had been influenced by the Spurs players. Others, like Ian Wright and Alan Shearer on Match of the Day, say it was a clear and obvious red and shouldn't even be a debating point.
THE MANAGERS' VERDICT
As above again. Warnock was unhappy with the decision and in particular the process with which it was reached, including Kane's involvement.
Mauricio Pochettino countered it was a clear red, although he could understand Warnock's emotion coming out.
WHAT WE SAY
The Ralls incident happened right in front of the Press box. My immediate reaction was that it was reckless, dangerous and high and he would be sent off. Which, of course, is what happened.
That was pretty much the view Dean would have had pitchside, too.
Subsequent TV replays show it wasn't quite as high as first thought, but it was still high enough.
One thing it most certainly wasn't was just a simple trip. Ralls felt Spurs might race away and score so took one for the team by taking out the man. It was blatant and cynical and at the very least he gave Dean a decision to make. He played the man, not the ball.
WILL CARDIFF APPEAL?
They could, but it seems highly unlikely given the nature of the challenge. If they do, as a Welsh club cases have tended to be heard in the past by an FA of Wales three-man disciplinary commission, rather than the FA.
The likelihood is Ralls gets a three-match ban, which will rule him out of games against Fulham, Liverpool and Leicester.
WHO REPLACES HIM
Arion Gunnarsson. Straight like for like. Fit again, he was on the bench at Wembley and Warnock had intended to give him 30 minutes of game time.
But once Ralls was red-carded that plan went out of the window, Warnock explaining: "I didn't see the point of sending him on to just go and chase shadows."
Some Cardiff fans actually feel a midfield triumvirate of Gunnarsson, Arter and Victor Camarasa is Warnock's best option, although the manager is a staunch backer of Ralls.
The enforced absence, however, will give Warnock the opportunity to try the three others together for the first time.
WILL THE FUSS DISAPPEAR?
No, not in the short term, at least. That's what football does, creates opinions and passions.
If pubs, offices, building sites and factory floors this week, the issue of whether Ralls should have gone will be debated.
Some will agree with Dean, others vehemently disagree.
Perhaps the one thing everyone can agree upon is that Kane and his colleagues should not have reacted in the manner that they did - which is exactly the point Warnock was making.
By Paul Abbdanato
Monday 8th October 2018
It took eight matches before Cardiff City and Neil Warnock had their first major controversy of the Premier League season, but talk about going in with two feet when it did happen - if you'll pardon the pun.
Joe Ralls' red card controversy at Tottenham has split the Bluebirds' fan base. Many felt he had to go, others are adamant referee Mike Dean's decision was harsh.
Warnock felt his side were punished because they're 'little old Cardiff' and that Dean was influenced too much by his assistants.
Throw in the involvement of England captain Harry Kane, who Warnock furiously accused of helping get Ralls sent off with his own follow-up actions, and it was a right old Wembley cocktail.
But was the correct decision arrived at as the gallant Bluebirds fell to a 1-0 defeat? This is the lowdown of what happened and why...
THE CHALLENGE
It's the 58th minute when Cardiff lose possession tight by the left touchline in Spurs' half. Lucas Moura collects the ball and knocks it past Ralls, then races inside him.
Ralls has a two yard start, but Moura is lightning quick and it's no contest. He's away. Other Cardiff defenders are back, but left-back Joe Bennett is out of position ahead of play.
Ralls sizes up the situation in an instant, looks up at Moura, sticks out a left leg and scythes him down. The ball is a few yards further forward and Ralls makes no attempt whatsoever to play it.
THE KANE HULLABALOO
Spurs players are furious and Kane rushes over straight away to lead the protests. He puts two hands on Ralls' shoulders and then around his chest - no idea why. Kieran Tripper also races across to say his two pennies' worth to Ralls.
Cardiff captain Sean Morrison arrives at the scene, protects Ralls and ushers Trippier away.
By this stage Eric Dier - a third England World Cup player - is protesting at Dean. The Spurs centre-backs Davison Sanchez and Toby Alderweireld have also arrived on the scene to make their feelings known.
Warnock was infuriated by the actions of the Tottenham players, led by Kane, saying afterwards you're not meant to surround the referee these days.
He called Kane a name, while sarcastically saying 'Well done Harry.' Afterwards Warnock said Kane should not have acted like that, hinting that as England captain he had to be setting a better example.
Warnock loves Kane as a player, but he also goaded him a little, throwing in the line 'Just because he was having a poor game...'
And he was. Kane was desperate to score, given Cardiff are bizarrely the only Premier League side he has never netted against, but Morrison was superb. He and Sol Bamba handled the Kane threat well throughout the 90 minutes.
DID KANE AND HIS SPURS TEAM-MATES INFLUENCE THE REF?
Once the fuss had subsided, Mike Dean brandished a straight red.
Harry Arter leads Cardiff's protests. He told Wales Online afterwards that Dean had initially been reaching for a yellow card.
It could have been, of course, that Dean was simply trying to find the red card and they were stuck together in his pocket.
Neil Warnock talks with Tottenham Hotspur players after Joe Ralls' red card... (Image: Getty Images Europe)
... while Ralls walks down the tunnel (Image: PA)
What Kane and his team-mates did was unsavoury. To be fair to Kane, it's also a little out of character.
But it's far more likely, if he did change his mind, that Dean was influenced by the linesman on that side of the field.
Let's be frank - it was a horrible challenge. Reckless and dangerous.
Warnock is right though, the Spurs players should not have got involved in the manner that they did.
THE LAW
Dean's official report to the FAW will determine exactly what Ralls was sent off for, but there are two areas of Law 12 he could have fallen foul of (again, no pun intended) and which constitute a red card.
The first is: "A tackle or challenge that endangers an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as foul play.
"Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind, with excessive force or endangers an opponent is guilty of foul play."
The other comes under violent conduct and the law reads: "When a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball..."
According to the rulebook, careless and reckless challenges are deemed only yellow card offences, but using excessive force is a red. This is where the confusion arises in Ralls' case - was it simply careless and reckless, or was excessive force used?
THE FANS' VERDICT
You can't say scientifically Cardiff supporters are split down the middle on this issue, but there is no doubt it has divided opinion.
Many argue the decision was harsh, a yellow at most, and had the boot been on the other foot Moura would not have been sent off.
Others counter the referee was totally justified, it was a terrible and needless challenge and Ralls had to go. They argue he'd let down the team and Warnock should be having a go at him, not the referee.
Well, we did say it's split opinion.
THE PUNDITS' VERDICT
As above. Some like Pat Nevin were indicating it was harsh and that the referee had been influenced by the Spurs players. Others, like Ian Wright and Alan Shearer on Match of the Day, say it was a clear and obvious red and shouldn't even be a debating point.
THE MANAGERS' VERDICT
As above again. Warnock was unhappy with the decision and in particular the process with which it was reached, including Kane's involvement.
Mauricio Pochettino countered it was a clear red, although he could understand Warnock's emotion coming out.
WHAT WE SAY
The Ralls incident happened right in front of the Press box. My immediate reaction was that it was reckless, dangerous and high and he would be sent off. Which, of course, is what happened.
That was pretty much the view Dean would have had pitchside, too.
Subsequent TV replays show it wasn't quite as high as first thought, but it was still high enough.
One thing it most certainly wasn't was just a simple trip. Ralls felt Spurs might race away and score so took one for the team by taking out the man. It was blatant and cynical and at the very least he gave Dean a decision to make. He played the man, not the ball.
WILL CARDIFF APPEAL?
They could, but it seems highly unlikely given the nature of the challenge. If they do, as a Welsh club cases have tended to be heard in the past by an FA of Wales three-man disciplinary commission, rather than the FA.
The likelihood is Ralls gets a three-match ban, which will rule him out of games against Fulham, Liverpool and Leicester.
WHO REPLACES HIM
Arion Gunnarsson. Straight like for like. Fit again, he was on the bench at Wembley and Warnock had intended to give him 30 minutes of game time.
But once Ralls was red-carded that plan went out of the window, Warnock explaining: "I didn't see the point of sending him on to just go and chase shadows."
Some Cardiff fans actually feel a midfield triumvirate of Gunnarsson, Arter and Victor Camarasa is Warnock's best option, although the manager is a staunch backer of Ralls.
The enforced absence, however, will give Warnock the opportunity to try the three others together for the first time.
WILL THE FUSS DISAPPEAR?
No, not in the short term, at least. That's what football does, creates opinions and passions.
If pubs, offices, building sites and factory floors this week, the issue of whether Ralls should have gone will be debated.
Some will agree with Dean, others vehemently disagree.
Perhaps the one thing everyone can agree upon is that Kane and his colleagues should not have reacted in the manner that they did - which is exactly the point Warnock was making.
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Re: Did Harry Kane influence the Ref?
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:06 pm
Kane had to do something physical because if he had ran up to the ref and tried to say something to him like blurb blurb blurb dean would have showed him a red for his terrible english pronunciation.
Re: Did Harry Kane influence the Ref?
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:09 pm
montyblue wrote:Kane had to do something physical because if he had ran up to the ref and tried to say something to him like blurb blurb blurb dean would have showed him a red for his terrible english pronunciation.
the bloke is pond life..go pi55 in his pond Monty..
Re: Did Harry Kane influence the Ref?
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:10 pm
And for spitting in dean' s face bit like roy hatersly when talking.
Re: Did Harry Kane influence the Ref?
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:17 pm
DOGFOUND
nice one, how kane got through that 1 game in russia in the world cup with all those insects flying around was a miracle.
nice one, how kane got through that 1 game in russia in the world cup with all those insects flying around was a miracle.
Re: Did Harry Kane influence the Ref?
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:19 pm
montyblue wrote:DOGFOUND
nice one, how kane got through that 1 game in russia in the world cup with all those insects flying around was a miracle.
Re: Did Harry Kane influence the Ref?
Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:09 pm
dogfound wrote:montyblue wrote:DOGFOUND
nice one, how kane got through that 1 game in russia in the world cup with all those insects flying around was a miracle.
Get a song going at home for him
considering his record of NOT scored against us,for the oldies who may remember, it's a mystery by toya wilcox 
it's a mythtery, oh it's a mythtery,a shot in the dark,a big qwestion mark.well along them lines,I'm no lyricist 
