Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:54 pm
Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:55 pm
Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:56 pm
Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:59 pm
Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:01 pm
Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:02 pm
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:47 pm
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:09 pm
SirJimmySchoular wrote:This is all very confusing.
On the face of it, it seems impossible to run profitably. However ,what's missing is the sum exact they received or will receive as their share of tv fees from the premier league this season.
There should be lots of ancillary revenue schemes but it's often occurred to me that they don't exploit them . Surely we could get a lot of money renaming the stadium - I don't like the idea much but everyone else seems to have renamed their grounds the Weetabix Stadium or something and gotten a lot of money from that.
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:35 pm
ccfcsince1962 wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:This is all very confusing.
On the face of it, it seems impossible to run profitably. However ,what's missing is the sum exact they received or will receive as their share of tv fees from the premier league this season.
There should be lots of ancillary revenue schemes but it's often occurred to me that they don't exploit them . Surely we could get a lot of money renaming the stadium - I don't like the idea much but everyone else seems to have renamed their grounds the Weetabix Stadium or something and gotten a lot of money from that.
It is very difficult to make a profit at Championship level , which is the level we were at for the May 2018 accounts.
This season we will make a profit , despite greatly increased wage levels (don`t believe NW`s claim that our budget is only half that of Huddersfield), due to the benefit (at least £98m) derived from t.v. money and increased gate money, sponsorship, commercial income etc. I have no access to actual figures but would estimate that profit to be around the £20m level.
The various extracts which Annis posts above are different sections of the same report prepared by Paul Abbandonato but attributed to another Walesonline employee and which itself is based on a commentary I did on the accounts some weeks ago and posted via the Trust website. There is nothing new or different in the recent report.
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:41 pm
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:46 am
JJ1927 wrote:ccfcsince1962 wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:This is all very confusing.
On the face of it, it seems impossible to run profitably. However ,what's missing is the sum exact they received or will receive as their share of tv fees from the premier league this season.
There should be lots of ancillary revenue schemes but it's often occurred to me that they don't exploit them . Surely we could get a lot of money renaming the stadium - I don't like the idea much but everyone else seems to have renamed their grounds the Weetabix Stadium or something and gotten a lot of money from that.
It is very difficult to make a profit at Championship level , which is the level we were at for the May 2018 accounts.
This season we will make a profit , despite greatly increased wage levels (don`t believe NW`s claim that our budget is only half that of Huddersfield), due to the benefit (at least £98m) derived from t.v. money and increased gate money, sponsorship, commercial income etc. I have no access to actual figures but would estimate that profit to be around the £20m level.
The various extracts which Annis posts above are different sections of the same report prepared by Paul Abbandonato but attributed to another Walesonline employee and which itself is based on a commentary I did on the accounts some weeks ago and posted via the Trust website. There is nothing new or different in the recent report.
Not exactly sure how they account for certain things and I may be wrong but I would expect the profit to be higher than the 20 million you quote as I understood the £35 million spent on the 4 signings will be written off over the term of the contract which is probably three years. Thus only about 12 million this year. To this you need to add a third of Madine's and Tomlins fee which will be written off this year, so something like 15 million will actually hit the profit in respect of signings. With turnover likely to be in the region of at least £120 million (TV money for finishing 18th at worst will be £100 million, gate, sponsorship etc) that leaves around £105 million to cover everything else. Be surprised if they cant make at least £30 million on that.
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:31 pm
ccfcsince1962 wrote:JJ1927 wrote:ccfcsince1962 wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:This is all very confusing.
On the face of it, it seems impossible to run profitably. However ,what's missing is the sum exact they received or will receive as their share of tv fees from the premier league this season.
There should be lots of ancillary revenue schemes but it's often occurred to me that they don't exploit them . Surely we could get a lot of money renaming the stadium - I don't like the idea much but everyone else seems to have renamed their grounds the Weetabix Stadium or something and gotten a lot of money from that.
It is very difficult to make a profit at Championship level , which is the level we were at for the May 2018 accounts.
This season we will make a profit , despite greatly increased wage levels (don`t believe NW`s claim that our budget is only half that of Huddersfield), due to the benefit (at least £98m) derived from t.v. money and increased gate money, sponsorship, commercial income etc. I have no access to actual figures but would estimate that profit to be around the £20m level.
The various extracts which Annis posts above are different sections of the same report prepared by Paul Abbandonato but attributed to another Walesonline employee and which itself is based on a commentary I did on the accounts some weeks ago and posted via the Trust website. There is nothing new or different in the recent report.
Not exactly sure how they account for certain things and I may be wrong but I would expect the profit to be higher than the 20 million you quote as I understood the £35 million spent on the 4 signings will be written off over the term of the contract which is probably three years. Thus only about 12 million this year. To this you need to add a third of Madine's and Tomlins fee which will be written off this year, so something like 15 million will actually hit the profit in respect of signings. With turnover likely to be in the region of at least £120 million (TV money for finishing 18th at worst will be £100 million, gate, sponsorship etc) that leaves around £105 million to cover everything else. Be surprised if they cant make at least £30 million on that.
What about the annual write-off of the cost of players already at the club (who had a written down value of £12m at the end of May 2018)? That would be another £4m a season.
Excluding the wages bill of £48m, the costs of running the club in the year to 31 May 2018 was about £25m. If the wage bill for the current season is around the £75m mark (which I expect it to be), then total costs this season would be £12m + £4m +£25m + £75m - a total of £116m.
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:21 pm
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:20 am
JJ1927 wrote:ccfcsince1962 wrote:JJ1927 wrote:ccfcsince1962 wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:This is all very confusing.
On the face of it, it seems impossible to run profitably. However ,what's missing is the sum exact they received or will receive as their share of tv fees from the premier league this season.
There should be lots of ancillary revenue schemes but it's often occurred to me that they don't exploit them . Surely we could get a lot of money renaming the stadium - I don't like the idea much but everyone else seems to have renamed their grounds the Weetabix Stadium or something and gotten a lot of money from that.
It is very difficult to make a profit at Championship level , which is the level we were at for the May 2018 accounts.
This season we will make a profit , despite greatly increased wage levels (don`t believe NW`s claim that our budget is only half that of Huddersfield), due to the benefit (at least £98m) derived from t.v. money and increased gate money, sponsorship, commercial income etc. I have no access to actual figures but would estimate that profit to be around the £20m level.
The various extracts which Annis posts above are different sections of the same report prepared by Paul Abbandonato but attributed to another Walesonline employee and which itself is based on a commentary I did on the accounts some weeks ago and posted via the Trust website. There is nothing new or different in the recent report.
Not exactly sure how they account for certain things and I may be wrong but I would expect the profit to be higher than the 20 million you quote as I understood the £35 million spent on the 4 signings will be written off over the term of the contract which is probably three years. Thus only about 12 million this year. To this you need to add a third of Madine's and Tomlins fee which will be written off this year, so something like 15 million will actually hit the profit in respect of signings. With turnover likely to be in the region of at least £120 million (TV money for finishing 18th at worst will be £100 million, gate, sponsorship etc) that leaves around £105 million to cover everything else. Be surprised if they cant make at least £30 million on that.
What about the annual write-off of the cost of players already at the club (who had a written down value of £12m at the end of May 2018)? That would be another £4m a season.
Excluding the wages bill of £48m, the costs of running the club in the year to 31 May 2018 was about £25m. If the wage bill for the current season is around the £75m mark (which I expect it to be), then total costs this season would be £12m + £4m +£25m + £75m - a total of £116m.
I had already included the big write offs of players in my calculation for Tomlin and Madine. I would be very surprised if the wage bill is anywhere near £75 million. The bulk of the wages are paid to the players who are in the squad of 25. Even at todays ridiculous wages I cant see many of them being on much more than 20K a week - 1 million - and some will be on a fair bit less e.g Healey, Kadeem Harris, Peltier, Murphy etc. An average wage bill of £1 million a squad player seems about right which would mean another £50 million is being spent on other players, coaches and admin staff. Seems much too high to me. But if you are correct and the wage bill is around 75 million is correct, then the club is still a financial basket case. Of course, if we stay up the figures will change as bonuses will be added.
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:40 am
bluecityblue wrote:What does debt to equity actually mean? If Tan owns the club, and it owes him £70m odd, he then converts that debt into equity of something he already owns? Wouldn't that be like buying the club twice? Sorry if it's a stupid question but I've wondered this for ages.
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:51 am
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:46 pm
bluecityblue wrote:What does debt to equity actually mean? If Tan owns the club, and it owes him £70m odd, he then converts that debt into equity of something he already owns? Wouldn't that be like buying the club twice? Sorry if it's a stupid question but I've wondered this for ages.
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:58 pm
SirJimmySchoular wrote:It does seem that unless something is done to improve revenues progress can't happen .
The big six clubs have other world wide revenue streams so they can afford the players and salaries needed to compete properly in the premiership.
If something isn't done then we've probably already done as well as anyone in the circumstances could , which would be dissapointing and certainly unfair.
Off the top of my head I'd be putting 10% on all ticket prices straight away and planning the quickest practical extension to capacity in the break, ( subject to being in the premiership then of course).
I'd be looking for commercial stadium sponsorship and additional forms of sponsorship and advertising plus new kinds of merchandising and events management where corporate clients get a weekend being coached and meet some players .
Those outside the top six need to collectively approach the premier league to either improve their share of revenue or restrict the sound of the rich clubs, and play hard ball when they make that approach.
At present ,it seems that the price of trying to compete with these big clubs is eventual bankruptcy or failure , and this is hardly sport.