CARDIFF CITY "AS WE KNOW IT".....

....IS a question of perception

I personally have watched the City for 30 years. We are the Bluebirds, we play in blue.

THAT is my perception of the Club.

However, my days of watching the Club revolve mainly around crowds of 5 or 6000, of
an empty Ninian Park, of a band of supporters going to away games that became almost
like brothers, fight anyone who wants to fight you, a black eye was a badge of honour
because it meant you'd been in the thick of it.

The FACTS of the modern day Cardiff City is that we have picked up around 15,000
new supporters in the last ten years. I expected the Barnsley Semi-Final to be full of
all the 'old heads' and people who hadnt been for years, and the atmosphere to be
electric. The reality was... we did NOT have that large a fan base, and many of those
in the City end were new supporters. Huge sections of Cardiff 'support' that day were
silent. Sat dumfounded by the more excitable City fans, annoyed by those standing,
embarrassed by the 'colourful language'.

The perception of many of these new supporters is totally different to mine. They do
not identify with 'the old days'. They do not identify with the Bluebird or the Clubs
traditional colours the way I do.

So while I do not accept the rebrand, I HAVE to accept that we were all wrong about
our 'large' historic fan base. It just wasnt there, and I have to accept that there are maybe
10,000-15,000 relatively new Cardiff City supporters who DO accept the rebrand and
who do not understand what all the fuss is about, because they do not have the same
emotional ties to the 'old days'. Without these supporters, City would be playing in front
of around 15,000 a week.

My point is this. The 'new' fans are not sell-outs/scabs/lacking pride... they are exactly
that... NEW. They dont know better (or worse) they just know DIFFERENT.

So when thousands of these people don red scarves next tuesday, they are doing nothing
wrong. They are supporting the Cardiff City THEY know and love.

The ONLY person who is guilty of anything is Vincent Tan who has ridden roughshod over
the feelings of many fans. But his gamble worked. Not enough people have CARED enough
to do anything about it. Next Tuesday I would love to see the CCS awash with Blue scarves.
But it wont happen. Not enough people care enough, and those that say they DO care are
doing nothing.

I think the REAL sell-outs are people like myself who grew up with the blue, love the Bluebird
but did NOTHING, because all we have done is talk-the-talk. Only a handful have walked the
walk. In our own way we have ALL found an excuse not to turn our backs, be it "oh i won't
buy their hot-dogs no more" or "I only applaud the team" or "I'm only here to support Malky"

Slagging off new fans? Naaah, without these new fans we would never ever fill that ground!!

Very good post Taffy

Similar to something I have just posted, but totally agree with you.

And end & a beginning to a new era. (Again!)

Superb post, mate.

You could say that the club is evolving, moving with the times. We might not like it, but we have to agree that it is.

Similar to something I have just posted, but totally agree with you.

And end & a beginning to a new era. (Again!)

Personally, I've supported Tan. I made a point of it over the last two seasons because
no matter what he was doing right, sections would NEVER give him credit. No way
no how. Nobody will come clean as to the reasons why but we pretty much all know

I still support much of what he's doing right now. We would be fucked without him,
anyone saying differently is an idiot.

but my own cut-off point (rightly or wrongly) will be if he eradicates the Bluebird from
the badge. Red? the feller may genuinely feel it is his lucky colour, and may genuinely
feel he's put enough in to get something out of it for himself... But to rid the Club
of the bluebird would really be a needless kick in the teeth im not prepared to accept

Cracking post however if we did not have our pants down when VT came to the club we would have had more of a backbone to stand against the change. Without VTs money I believe we would be fighting a relagation battle this season while fighting of creditors who we owe money too.

I also believe the debt we had would have left us in liqidation not administration hence why I accepted the change.

The only thing I have to cling on to now is the hope that VT turns all debt to equity otherwise I accepted the change for nothing because the amount of debt we have now will certainly put us in to liqidation if VT were to walk away

Good Post,

Taffy great post. I have followed the Bluebirds for over 50 years and we have always been blue and called "bluebirds" but I'm with you I also saw low crowds hundreds not thousands at Welsh Cup games but we have to move on.

VT has put his money where his mouth is and is going for it we sit top of the table and the EPL is there for the taking.

I for one will be cheering the team and joining everyone else shouting BLUEBIRDS BLUEBIRDS when every goal goes in.

best post I've read on the subject Taffy.

Very good post Dave.

Totally agree with you the sellouts are you and I, guys who have supported the club through the bad days and did nothing. However I don't think we should be too harsh on ourselves as we have fought many battles and the fight might have been taken out of us.

Tan has a vision and as far as I can make out that vision is to have a Malaysian representative club in the Premiership. A club that holds all true to Malaysian culture. Dancing dragons is the latest talk now. I honestly think Tan wants this and a lot more. I can see us getting rid of the Clarkes pie to be replaced by the spring roll. OK that sounds dramatic but is it?

I've always dreamed of us getting to the top and being a representation of all things Welsh. I'm seeing the Welsh thing being pushed to the side and can see it being obliterated making way for the Malaysian fire. That is what is getting to me.

I don't know how much I can tolerate it. I believe in fighting within but only with a chance. At this moment in time I see no chance, too many new faces perhaps as you described above going with the flow. Its my mates that keep me going, without them I can see myself giving up.

Best post on either board,just the way i feel.

We were a Club that had been totally and utterly fucked over by previous
owners. Tan came along. Not only did he give Cardiff City the kiss of life,
he stopped the bleeding, dressed the wounds and put bandages on them!!

What were the fans going to do when he threatened to drive off with the
ambulance again???

We were wide open for ANYBODY to come in and do what they wanted.

The more I think about it, we should be relieved the feller never just came
in, cleared all the debts and built a SUPERCOSWAY on the Halfway line.

Very good post Dave.

Totally agree with you the sellouts are you and I, guys who have supported the club through the bad days and did nothing. However I don't think we should be too harsh on ourselves as we have fought many battles and the fight might have been taken out of us.

Tan has a vision and as far as I can make out that vision is to have a Malaysian representative club in the Premiership. A club that holds all true to Malaysian culture. Dancing dragons is the latest talk now. I honestly think Tan wants this and a lot more. I can see us getting rid of the Clarkes pie to be replaced by the spring roll. OK that sounds dramatic but is it?

I've always dreamed of us getting to the top and being a representation of all things Welsh. I'm seeing the Welsh thing being pushed to the side and can see it being obliterated making way for the Malaysian fire. That is what is getting to me.

I don't know how much I can tolerate it. I believe in fighting within but only with a chance. At this moment in time I see no chance, too many new faces perhaps as you described above going with the flow. Its my mates that keep me going, without them I can see myself giving up.

I know I fall out with you over everything

What he has done is a hell of a lot of good for the Club, then thrown in something shite.
Too many are looking at the good and thinking the bad is 'bearable' it is for me, just!!

But if the badge goes, thats my cut-off point.

All depends on how far you want to go back.

If you go back to the late 50's/early 60's, then City were pulling in massive support.
So support in general comes and goes depending on the success of the side and the amount of coin in peoples pockets.

Personally, although I miss standing on the Bob, I am thankful I no longer have to take a piss in the rain or visit the likes of Barnet that often (no offence intended to the Bees). It does surprise me why there are still those who cling on to the hooligan days and reminisce fondly about how they beat another fan senseless or robbed some poor bugger in the motorway services.

I welcome all those who now support City. Nothing worse than paying good money (that many can't afford) to see the boys play and to have the game ruined by some drunk, pilled up nonce, who's not even watching the bloody game, gobbing his mouth off with no consideration for the younger supporters around him. Not for one minute am I suggesting we should all sit like monks who have taken the vow of silence, but the behaviour of those who take it to the extreme is embarrassing.

Thankfully, many have now moved on or simply grown up.

As for the colour blue or the Bluebird... well we haven't always played in blue and it's only recently that we adopted the famous bluebird to the shirt. Speaking as someone who has a "Bluebird" tattoo, I don't wish the change either. But with Tan, whatever his intention are I'm still not sure, with his financial backing (along perhaps with a few of his friends) has a vision for a brighter future for Cardiff City. Whether he makes a buck or 2 along the way then I don't care. He owns the club. His money pays the wages. He decides what colour we play in. Until the day comes that I win the Lotto, buy him out and change it back to blue, then I'll have to wait.

As long the team remains in Cardiff, then to me, they'll always be Cardiff City AFC. The team I am incredibly proud to support.

Cracking post however if we did not have our pants down when VT came to the club we would have had more of a backbone to stand against the change. Without VTs money I believe we would be fighting a relagation battle this season while fighting of creditors who we owe money too.

I also believe the debt we had would have left us in liqidation not administration hence why I accepted the change.

The only thing I have to cling on to now is the hope that VT turns all debt to equity otherwise I accepted the change for nothing because the amount of debt we have now will certainly put us in to liqidation if VT were to walk away

Mate, without Tans money we would be Portsmouth right now

Our owners dont meddle with the team selection or change managers at the drop of a hat like some others have.

Our owners dont meddle with the team selection or change managers at the drop of a hat like some others have.

Yeh but this thread isnt about which owner did this and which one did that mate.

We get enough of those arguments as it is

Our owners dont meddle with the team selection or change managers at the drop of a hat like some others have.

Yeh but this thread isnt about which owner did this and which one did that mate.

We get enough of those arguments as it is

Excellent post and pretty much sums up how I look at it, I won't argue with those in red, I won't wear a red scarf, I'll accept one and give it to somebody who will appreciate it.
To me we are The Bluebirds regardless of colour of kit, I will be gutted if VT takes that off our badge

Excellent post TA

....IS a question of perception

I personally have watched the City for 30 years. We are the Bluebirds, we play in blue.

THAT is my perception of the Club.

However, my days of watching the Club revolve mainly around crowds of 5 or 6000, of
an empty Ninian Park, of a band of supporters going to away games that became almost
like brothers, fight anyone who wants to fight you, a black eye was a badge of honour
because it meant you'd been in the thick of it.

The FACTS of the modern day Cardiff City is that we have picked up around 15,000
new supporters in the last ten years. I expected the Barnsley Semi-Final to be full of
all the 'old heads' and people who hadnt been for years, and the atmosphere to be
electric. The reality was... we did NOT have that large a fan base, and many of those
in the City end were new supporters. Huge sections of Cardiff 'support' that day were
silent. Sat dumfounded by the more excitable City fans, annoyed by those standing,
embarrassed by the 'colourful language'.

The perception of many of these new supporters is totally different to mine. They do
not identify with 'the old days'. They do not identify with the Bluebird or the Clubs
traditional colours the way I do.

So while I do not accept the rebrand, I HAVE to accept that we were all wrong about
our 'large' historic fan base. It just wasnt there, and I have to accept that there are maybe
10,000-15,000 relatively new Cardiff City supporters who DO accept the rebrand and
who do not understand what all the fuss is about, because they do not have the same
emotional ties to the 'old days'. Without these supporters, City would be playing in front
of around 15,000 a week.

My point is this. The 'new' fans are not sell-outs/scabs/lacking pride... they are exactly
that... NEW. They dont know better (or worse) they just know DIFFERENT.

So when thousands of these people don red scarves next tuesday, they are doing nothing
wrong. They are supporting the Cardiff City THEY know and love.

The ONLY person who is guilty of anything is Vincent Tan who has ridden roughshod over
the feelings of many fans. But his gamble worked. Not enough people have CARED enough
to do anything about it. Next Tuesday I would love to see the CCS awash with Blue scarves.
But it wont happen. Not enough people care enough, and those that say they DO care are
doing nothing.

I think the REAL sell-outs are people like myself who grew up with the blue, love the Bluebird
but did NOTHING, because all we have done is talk-the-talk. Only a handful have walked the
walk. In our own way we have ALL found an excuse not to turn our backs, be it "oh i won't
buy their hot-dogs no more" or "I only applaud the team" or "I'm only here to support Malky"

Slagging off new fans? Naaah, without these new fans we would never ever fill that ground!!

Fully understand where you are coming from, however in my case and i guess a fair few of other City fans, I followed the boys towards the end of the 60s and throuhout the 70s. I played football, and this really stopped me following the boys, just picking up the odd few games here and there. I then jacked in playing at the young age of 35 and to be honest I had enough of Football and become a family man to 2 daughters who had no interest in Football,. christ it was hard work just watching any team on Sky. But I glad to say a few of my mates and I started to get back into the bluebirds around 2001 and followed them through the lower divisions to where we are now. I have been a ST holder for the last 5 years and l love every minute of it, sadly i can only make home games, as I work away alot etc. So yes if we are to progress then we need the New fans and yes that means red is in to stay. But we are and always will be the BLUEBIRDS

....IS a question of perception

I personally have watched the City for 30 years. We are the Bluebirds, we play in blue.

THAT is my perception of the Club.

However, my days of watching the Club revolve mainly around crowds of 5 or 6000, of
an empty Ninian Park, of a band of supporters going to away games that became almost
like brothers, fight anyone who wants to fight you, a black eye was a badge of honour
because it meant you'd been in the thick of it.

The FACTS of the modern day Cardiff City is that we have picked up around 15,000
new supporters in the last ten years. I expected the Barnsley Semi-Final to be full of
all the 'old heads' and people who hadnt been for years, and the atmosphere to be
electric. The reality was... we did NOT have that large a fan base, and many of those
in the City end were new supporters. Huge sections of Cardiff 'support' that day were
silent. Sat dumfounded by the more excitable City fans, annoyed by those standing,
embarrassed by the 'colourful language'.

The perception of many of these new supporters is totally different to mine. They do
not identify with 'the old days'. They do not identify with the Bluebird or the Clubs
traditional colours the way I do.

So while I do not accept the rebrand, I HAVE to accept that we were all wrong about
our 'large' historic fan base. It just wasnt there, and I have to accept that there are maybe
10,000-15,000 relatively new Cardiff City supporters who DO accept the rebrand and
who do not understand what all the fuss is about, because they do not have the same
emotional ties to the 'old days'. Without these supporters, City would be playing in front
of around 15,000 a week.

My point is this. The 'new' fans are not sell-outs/scabs/lacking pride... they are exactly
that... NEW. They dont know better (or worse) they just know DIFFERENT.

So when thousands of these people don red scarves next tuesday, they are doing nothing
wrong. They are supporting the Cardiff City THEY know and love.

The ONLY person who is guilty of anything is Vincent Tan who has ridden roughshod over
the feelings of many fans. But his gamble worked. Not enough people have CARED enough
to do anything about it. Next Tuesday I would love to see the CCS awash with Blue scarves.
But it wont happen. Not enough people care enough, and those that say they DO care are
doing nothing.

I think the REAL sell-outs are people like myself who grew up with the blue, love the Bluebird
but did NOTHING, because all we have done is talk-the-talk. Only a handful have walked the
walk. In our own way we have ALL found an excuse not to turn our backs, be it "oh i won't
buy their hot-dogs no more" or "I only applaud the team" or "I'm only here to support Malky"

Slagging off new fans? Naaah, without these new fans we would never ever fill that ground!!

I applauded Gareth Whitts last night for a genuine post from a loyal AAMB poster, and to be honest Taffy, That post is on the nail, a superb and honest response, that not only shows we need to unite as fans, but the end of the day its all about CCFC.

Top Top Post, good on you Taffy lad.

Good balanced post. Old school fans are in the minority but if we weren't, we'd be playing to a half empty stadium. Blue for me but doesn't make me a better fan.

One hell of a good post by Taffy and at last some real perspective. The brutal truth is the old guard are a very small minority and if every one of them walked away from the club today it would hardly register on the CCFC Richter scale.

I have seen hundreds of posts about 'fighting the fight' and how ‘sell out’ fans have rolled over in the wake of Tan and his rebrand. But let’s be fair what could anyone have done about it? And to be even franker what have any of those mouthing off about fighting back actually done?

F**k all is the honest answer and most of the rhetoric has been nothing but complete and utter bluster because there is nothing they can do because Tan is too powerful.

Personally I think everyone should play the clever card on the rebrand. Let Tan do whatever he likes and roll with all of the decisions. Hopefully he will eventually put us on an even keel, establish us in the Premier League and leave a club making millions from over sea’s ventures.

Then one day he will be gone and the Blue shirt/Bluebird/Welsh identity will all return because they are the fabric of this club.

In the meantime we simply console ourselves by wearing blue and the bluebird and the fact our great club is securing its 21st century legacy whilst many others are falling apart.

One hell of a good post by Taffy and at last some real perspective. The brutal truth is the old guard are a very small minority and if every one of them walked away from the club today it would hardly register on the CCFC Richter scale.

I have seen hundreds of posts about 'fighting the fight' and how ‘sell out’ fans have rolled over in the wake of Tan and his rebrand. But let’s be fair what could anyone have done about it? And to be even franker what have any of those mouthing off about fighting back actually done?

F**k all is the honest answer and most of the rhetoric has been nothing but complete and utter bluster because there is nothing they can do because Tan is too powerful.

Personally I think everyone should play the clever card on the rebrand. Let Tan do whatever he likes and roll with all of the decisions. Hopefully he will eventually put us on an even keel, establish us in the Premier League and leave a club making millions from over sea’s ventures.

Then one day he will be gone and the Blue shirt/Bluebird/Welsh identity will all return because they are the fabric of this club.

In the meantime we simply console ourselves by wearing blue and the bluebird and the fact our great club is securing its 21st century legacy whilst many others are falling apart.

Great honest post.

It's funny how we see ourselves.

In the early 70's my Nan & Gramp lived on Ninian Park road and from my "weekend" bedroom could see NP. My gramp would take me to the odd game. His last ever game was against Man U, (Annis has posted the photos of this game) I waited for him in the bay window and he came back saying it was carnage out there and never took me again, but he never went himself again.

I went with my old man for a few years, but started going down on my own 81 (aged 14) and continued with my mates for another 10 years. I wouldn't consider myself a hooligan but you always ended up being somehow involved in those days. I stopped because I wanted to play again.

So its funny that my gramps generation blamed the hooligan generation for dwindling attendance, but the hooligan generation somehow feel they have lost the most !

I consider myself part of the hooligan generation (so not having a go TA), we have lost the passion (aggression) but the trade off is worth it. My 9 year old daughter had free tickets from her school and got me back into it.

I miss we don't sing "Ill be there" with meaning and Ceeee Aaaaa rrrrrrr dddddd iiiiiii fffffff fffffff and what have you got !!!! I find Ali cringe-worthy and I hate we sing the same generic songs as everyone els, I hate the red shirt (only one shirt and its the 76 home) and don't mention the drum, but I am loving this season and being a born again bluebird

I love Cardiff City FC. I belong to them, they belong to me,,that's my birth right.

That's the way it is, & that's the way it's always been.

Respects to all City fans, the old & the new.

Every one has a choice, & every one gets what they want in life!!!

Great post Taff, put into words what a lot of us are thinking

One hell of a good post by Taffy and at last some real perspective. The brutal truth is the old guard are a very small minority and if every one of them walked away from the club today it would hardly register on the CCFC Richter scale.

I have seen hundreds of posts about 'fighting the fight' and how ‘sell out’ fans have rolled over in the wake of Tan and his rebrand. But let’s be fair what could anyone have done about it? And to be even franker what have any of those mouthing off about fighting back actually done?

F**k all is the honest answer and most of the rhetoric has been nothing but complete and utter bluster because there is nothing they can do because Tan is too powerful.

Personally I think everyone should play the clever card on the rebrand. Let Tan do whatever he likes and roll with all of the decisions. Hopefully he will eventually put us on an even keel, establish us in the Premier League and leave a club making millions from over sea’s ventures.

Then one day he will be gone and the Blue shirt/Bluebird/Welsh identity will all return because they are the fabric of this club.

In the meantime we simply console ourselves by wearing blue and the bluebird and the fact our great club is securing its 21st century legacy whilst many others are falling apart.

Tony, the way the feller is actually RUNNING the Club, for me the perfect scenario would be
that he STAYS. Realises his mistake, realises he has hurt many supporters and decides to
change the shirt again. Perhaps one of the designs that appeared on here a few months back
with the red AND the blue...AND the Bluebird flying proudly. Tan gets to keep his favourite
colour (lets be fair, he's pumped in a lot of money and he's probably entitled to the odd perk!)..
But we get to keep our traditions at the same time. I dont know what his long term plans are,
none of us do, but rebrand apart, Ive never felt so positive about the way my Club is being run!!
I get the feeling that this feller wont f**k about in the Premiership, Malky wont piss money
against the wall on shite players and we can prove to be a pretty decent Premiership side

The problem is these 'New' Fans will also be the first to leave if things go tits up ala Portsmouth and if you alienate much of the hardcore support of old where does that leave us in the future.

I have hered it said on here many times that Tan is in to deep to just leave but that is absolute nonsense.

Vincent Tan does NOT see Cardiff City as a business, its purely a toy, a play thing, Red is his colour, there is no other reason for it. This man is so far detatched from reality that he is talking of 'Malaysian Derby's'.

How much has Tan put in and how much would he stand to lose if he walked away? well it doesnt realy matter as it would be
water off a ducks back and a drop in the ocean to him.

People will come on here and give you all the propoganda in the world about how Vincent Tan is an honorable man etc etc and Malaysians dont like to fail and it would be seen as failure if he walked away, absolute tripe.

We should have taken the hit. Admin and come back from whatever may have come but as it goes Cardiff City as we new died
the day Vincent Tan got involved.