"6 PIVOTAL MONTHS AHEAD"

It is my opinion that the Malaysians are honourable people and they are in it for the long haul, is there a power struggle going on ? I am not too sure about that, for me it's more of a struggle to get certain people out. Ok I can understand why some supporters think that they put £6million in as a gamble for a crack at the Premiership, I dont believe that was their only reason for investing. For me if that was the case why would they have put forward £500k to help fund the wages for last month ? Why would they be meeting and dealing with certain creditors to try and help the club in paying it's debts ? Just those simple thoughts imply that they are in it for real.

There is a lot of money to be paid between now and Christmas, the figure I believe is over £20+million and it would seem a lot of dealing has got to be done to either pay those monies off or get them extended over a longer period.

Look it is my opinion that PMG want out, do the Malaysians want them out ? We dont honestly know.

Is it safe to assume that the Malaysians want PMG and the other directors to help fund the club also ? I would think so.

Lets look at what has to be paid out before Christmas. For the months of July, August and Sept, there is the wage bill that will be approximately £1million a month inclusive of tax, before Sept also there are 3 debts that need settling, they are 2 debts payable to 2 club directors worth £3.5million and the agreement with Sunderland for Chopra equalling £1.25million. There is also the £83.000 per month to Langston. At present it is still my belief that we owe £500k on Hudson and as it stands I have not heard if this has been renegotiated or settled. There are also monthly payments to Paul Guy that are approximately £90k a month. And who can forget the dreaded taxman £1.3million. So in total there is a figure in the region of £10million approx to be paid out by September.

Some of the debts above could be dealt with in that they may be paid in shares and settled that way. The club also have the opportunity to reduce some of it's overall debt by taking up the option of reducing PMG's lending to the club from £8.7million down to £6million by converting £2.7million into shares too.

For October, Nov and Dec there will still be £3million in wages at least to be paid and there is the outstanding debt with Langston which would make sense to be settled or at least renegotiated prior the year end otherwise the £10million figure returns to it's original sum of £24million. With regards to Langston we may find that the full £10million or part of may be settled in return for shares if it is deemed right for the club but that is a decision for the club and langston to make.

So we must face the fact that there is a hell of a lot to be done and patience is a must and I feel we as fans need to pull back on our expectations and assumptions of our megarich new investors, I think when you consider all of what I have said above and I will leave it for others to dismiss it, the likelyhood of new players coming in are very slim, if the club are under a transfer embargo, I find it strangely annoying that they have not issued a statement to dispell the rumour like they have on previous matters. I know the truth of the matter but I will allow you to form your own judgement on the issue.

The club have a planned trip to Portugal departing Friday evening at a cost of £40k, another expenditure when we have no income streams, all of these things add up. This trip is reliant on the Malaysians funding it.

We may not get new signings, unless the club gets the chance to sign the likes of Bellamy for ridiculously low wages that they tried to get him on because he wanted the move so badly, we may not strengthen in January, there may even be player sales but I believe that the Malaysians are playing this so the club will be stronger at the end of it, that the club will have a much reduced debt than when they arrived and it is also my opinion that PMG will not be around when this season ends. The Malaysians are very very rich and they could plough the money in and sending our borrowings through the roof and evetually they leave, what then ? we will be straddled with an unmanagable debt that very few on the planet would touch and we would be well and truly stuffed. So now you know how much work is ahead with very little time to resolve it, lets be thankful we still have a team to support because one thing we can be clear on is this :

WHEN WE NEEDED THE CASH AND WE WERE ONLY 5 DAYS FROM BEING WOUND UP THERE WAS NOT A LONG QUEUE OF INVESTORS LINING UP TO HELP US !

There are good times ahead i am certain but they will be built on solid foundations and not on the strength of one or two backers, get the club financially sound and of positive equity then build the name and the brand and through sponsorship and investment and the right people in the right roles and we will become the club we strive to be. The Malaysians have seen there is a reason to back Cardiff City and it is not because they are fans, it is because there is huge potential here, with their money they could have invested in many clubs but they didnt they chose us. We will have to suffer in the short term a little in reaching our targets but after going through the bullshit of last year and all the lies I am sure we can wait just a little longer.

All this of course is only my thoughts and opinion.

copyright of http://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk

As usual an Excellent post and yes its TOUGH TIMES AHEAD, But I Believe Like YOU, THE MALAYSIANS ARE HERE FOR THE LONG HAUL and I DO SEE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL,But This is going to be a VERY TOUGH SEASON AHEAD FOR US ALL and WE MUST BACK OUR CLUB/TEAM ALL THE WAY ON THAT PITCH, NO MATTER WHAT

As usual an Excellent post and yes its TOUGH TIMES AHEAD, But I Believe Like YOU, THE MALAYSIANS ARE HERE FOR THE LONG HAUL and I DO SEE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL,But This is going to be a VERY TOUGH SEASON AHEAD FOR US ALL and WE MUST BACK OUR CLUB/TEAM ALL THE WAY ON THAT PITCH, NO MATTER WHAT

Yes Annis if we back the team and leave the malaysians to sort out the mess the club will come through and avoid administration I am sure.

Carl, as ALWAYS (Annis!), thanks for your thoughts.

Onwards and Upwards (slowly).

Carl, as ALWAYS (Annis!), thanks for your thoughts.

Onwards and Upwards (slowly).

Yes I still believe in Onwards and Upwards (but it it is now very slowly)

Cracking post as usual Carl I'm sure we'll have the usual suspects having a dig though...but afterall jealousy is a ugly trait!!

So when the japs came over they said we don't want to go through the play offs again, we want to be top 2 - They were obviously talking cack

We are desperate for players & again nothing likely to arrive because we have this embargo in place

I can't see how the future is bright - I think we have been duped again

We got no cash but we can still pay stupid wages to the twats that let us down so badly at wembley

Carl, I aasume a big part of our long term future is sorting out new contracts for our final year players, or is this beyond us at the moment too?

So when the japs came over they said we don't want to go through the play offs again, we want to be top 2 - They were obviously talking cack

We are desperate for players & again nothing likely to arrive because we have this embargo in place

I can't see how the future is bright - I think we have been duped again

We got no cash but we can still pay stupid wages to the twats that let us down so badly at wembley

The wages were already here before the Malaysians.

The future is bright as the clubs future is in the right hands.

So when the japs came over they said we don't want to go through the play offs again, we want to be top 2 - They were obviously talking cack

We are desperate for players & again nothing likely to arrive because we have this embargo in place

I can't see how the future is bright - I think we have been duped again

We got no cash but we can still pay stupid wages to the twats that let us down so badly at wembley

Hi Moo Cow, I was there when TG said that at the EGM, I think he got carried away and after the Play off Disaster, He was really saying he never wants to go through that experience again, in my opinion.

Carl great info but no strength in depth for next season again

Annis, not much chance of that - we won't be making the play offs with this gutless squad

Maybe adminstration isin't such a bad option

The Malaysians need us in the premier to get a return on their investment. If we stay where we are I feel they could be awaiting along time before they see a return.

For this to happen they need to invest even more than what they have done. Problem is why should they when there are other that dont want to?

I agree with the 6 pivotal months. I can see us going into the season with hardly any new signing but a squad capable of challenging for the top. Officially we are the best team in the league as we have kept most of our players who lost out in the PO final. So yes come January there is no reason why we cant be somewhere near the top. Besides we do have the highest paid manager so we can expect that.

Meanwhile in the background while the team is riding high the Malaysians can go to work and sort it all out. Come January they will have achieved the takeover, at their price, that they want. Once they have come through that then they will invest in the team to get us in the premier. Thats what I think will happen in the next 6 months.

as i have stated before the malaysians would be getting a highly ranked championship club with a state of the art stadium which could be expanded when needed for about 30 million over the next 24 months.
im sure they would see that as a bargain but i still think they will be squeezing existing debtors and shareholders to try and get it for less.

Im not for this view that they took a gamble on us reaching the premiership either because remember they were negotiating with ridsdale as far back as october and renewed their interest with steve borley in january.
if they wanted to make a quick buck they could have put a few million on blackpool to win the playoffs around easter time and imagine the return they would have got for that.

i agree with carl its going to be a painfull next 12 months but havent most of us had that all our lifes supporting the city.
if ive got to watch mid table mediocrity for the next 24 months to ensure that the club is debt free at the end of that period then bring it on.

Carl good post - but we have some income between now and Christmas surely. TV money, at least 2 live games, plus usual match day monies and I assume monies owed from last season. Appreciate the Fiddler screwed over 10,000 season ticket holders but 7,000 more bought tickets after the swindle - there must be cash from that.

Hopefully we can make progress in the League cup as well. Assuming we well 2/3 players before the season starts - Whitts, Ledley , AN Other then we must be looking at another 5 million. Sure that we will make a few bob in shirt sales too. So in essence the shortfall must only be 5 to 10 mill - Euromillions syndicate anyone ?

Carl when do you think this embargo will be lifted ?

Carl good post - but we have some income between now and Christmas surely. TV money, at least 2 live games, plus usual match day monies and I assume monies owed from last season. Appreciate the Fiddler screwed over 10,000 season ticket holders but 7,000 more bought tickets after the swindle - there must be cash from that.

Hopefully we can make progress in the League cup as well. Assuming we well 2/3 players before the season starts - Whitts, Ledley , AN Other then we must be looking at another 5 million. Sure that we will make a few bob in shirt sales too. So in essence the shortfall must only be 5 to 10 mill - Euromillions syndicate anyone ?

The extra 7,000 season ticket holders money will have gone by now, 2 live games would provide £200k tops and if we average 21,000 crowds then the takings from each league game would be around the £60k mark so by Christmas I reckon we will have done well to bring in £800k.

Carl when do you think this embargo will be lifted ?

What Embargo ?

If we are under a transfer emabargo then it will be lifted when the club pay the tax bill, which will be before the season starts.

as i have stated before the malaysians would be getting a highly ranked championship club with a state of the art stadium which could be expanded when needed for about 30 million over the next 24 months.
im sure they would see that as a bargain but i still think they will be squeezing existing debtors and shareholders to try and get it for less.

Im not for this view that they took a gamble on us reaching the premiership either because remember they were negotiating with ridsdale as far back as october and renewed their interest with steve borley in january.
if they wanted to make a quick buck they could have put a few million on blackpool to win the playoffs around easter time and imagine the return they would have got for that.

i agree with carl its going to be a painfull next 12 months but havent most of us had that all our lifes supporting the city.
if ive got to watch mid table mediocrity for the next 24 months to ensure that the club is debt free at the end of that period then bring it on.

In fairness Steve you have remained consistent with your thoughts and you are being proved correct

The Malaysians need us in the premier to get a return on their investment. If we stay where we are I feel they could be awaiting along time before they see a return.

For this to happen they need to invest even more than what they have done. Problem is why should they when there are other that dont want to?

I agree with the 6 pivotal months. I can see us going into the season with hardly any new signing but a squad capable of challenging for the top. Officially we are the best team in the league as we have kept most of our players who lost out in the PO final. So yes come January there is no reason why we cant be somewhere near the top. Besides we do have the highest paid manager so we can expect that.

Meanwhile in the background while the team is riding high the Malaysians can go to work and sort it all out. Come January they will have achieved the takeover, at their price, that they want. Once they have come through that then they will invest in the team to get us in the premier. Thats what I think will happen in the next 6 months.

Thanks for the PM Ian.

Yes the financial mess has to be sorted out to secure the long term future of the club but I cannot share the optimism, all I can see is a player cull to help pay off debtors and possible relegation with the mere squad that we will have left. OK yes we may have a club but it wont be as we know it, if relegation looms next season I can guarantee you see half the attendance that we seen at CCS.

if relegation looms next season I can guarantee you see half the attendance that we seen at CCS.

Another reason why we need to be challenging as I have already discussed. Even more of a reason for Vinnie and Top Guy to sort out the backroom.

Thanks for the PM Ian.

No problem Carl. I'm in a big gang whne it comes to that subject.

Everyone talks continually about money going out of the club, but no one talks about the income! What tv will we recieve this year, parachuate payments etc etc?

if relegation looms next season I can guarantee you see half the attendance that we seen at CCS.

Another reason why we need to be challenging as I have already discussed. Even more of a reason for Vinnie and Top Guy to sort out the backroom.

How can we possibly challenge with what we have and about to loose and with no prospect of anyone decent coming in though, again the security of the club comes first but you know as well as myself how fickle our 20+ crowd are.

As a long haul fan I am prepared for this club to take one step back before we go two steps forward. The last 10 years has seen us end up in this mess due to over enthusiastic financial gambling and bad money management. We now have astute men running the club in my opinion and I have faith that even though this season and maybe even the next will be pretty average, we are on the rebuilding path.

The Malaysians need us in the premier to get a return on their investment.

Spot on.

The Malaysian plan probably involves squeesing PMG/Langston and other creditors and eventually getting hold of our club debt free for around £25m.

Another £5-10m should get us to the Premier League and the £90m pot.

£35m spent £90m in, suddenly their plan begins to make sense.

It is my opinion that the Malaysians are honourable people and they are in it for the long haul, is there a power struggle going on ? I am not too sure about that, for me it's more of a struggle to get certain people out. Ok I can understand why some supporters think that they put £6million in as a gamble for a crack at the Premiership, I dont believe that was their only reason for investing. For me if that was the case why would they have put forward £500k to help fund the wages for last month ? Why would they be meeting and dealing with certain creditors to try and help the club in paying it's debts ? Just those simple thoughts imply that they are in it for real.

There is a lot of money to be paid between now and Christmas, the figure I believe is over £20+million and it would seem a lot of dealing has got to be done to either pay those monies off or get them extended over a longer period.

Look it is my opinion that PMG want out, do the Malaysians want them out ? We dont honestly know.

Is it safe to assume that the Malaysians want PMG and the other directors to help fund the club also ? I would think so.

Lets look at what has to be paid out before Christmas. For the months of July, August and Sept, there is the wage bill that will be approximately £1million a month inclusive of tax, before Sept also there are 3 debts that need settling, they are 2 debts payable to 2 club directors worth £3.5million and the agreement with Sunderland for Chopra equalling £1.25million. There is also the £83.000 per month to Langston. At present it is still my belief that we owe £500k on Hudson and as it stands I have not heard if this has been renegotiated or settled. There are also monthly payments to Paul Guy that are approximately £90k a month. And who can forget the dreaded taxman £1.3million. So in total there is a figure in the region of £10million approx to be paid out by September.

Some of the debts above could be dealt with in that they may be paid in shares and settled that way. The club also have the opportunity to reduce some of it's overall debt by taking up the option of reducing PMG's lending to the club from £8.7million down to £6million by converting £2.7million into shares too.

For October, Nov and Dec there will still be £3million in wages at least to be paid and there is the outstanding debt with Langston which would make sense to be settled or at least renegotiated prior the year end otherwise the £10million figure returns to it's original sum of £24million. With regards to Langston we may find that the full £10million or part of may be settled in return for shares if it is deemed right for the club but that is a decision for the club and langston to make.

So we must face the fact that there is a hell of a lot to be done and patience is a must and I feel we as fans need to pull back on our expectations and assumptions of our megarich new investors, I think when you consider all of what I have said above and I will leave it for others to dismiss it, the likelyhood of new players coming in are very slim, if the club are under a transfer embargo, I find it strangely annoying that they have not issued a statement to dispell the rumour like they have on previous matters. I know the truth of the matter but I will allow you to form your own judgement on the issue.

The club have a planned trip to Portugal departing Friday evening at a cost of £40k, another expenditure when we have no income streams, all of these things add up. This trip is reliant on the Malaysians funding it.

We may not get new signings, unless the club gets the chance to sign the likes of Bellamy for ridiculously low wages that they tried to get him on because he wanted the move so badly, we may not strengthen in January, there may even be player sales but I believe that the Malaysians are playing this so the club will be stronger at the end of it, that the club will have a much reduced debt than when they arrived and it is also my opinion that PMG will not be around when this season ends. The Malaysians are very very rich and they could plough the money in and sending our borrowings through the roof and evetually they leave, what then ? we will be straddled with an unmanagable debt that very few on the planet would touch and we would be well and truly stuffed. So now you know how much work is ahead with very little time to resolve it, lets be thankful we still have a team to support because one thing we can be clear on is this :

WHEN WE NEEDED THE CASH AND WE WERE ONLY 5 DAYS FROM BEING WOUND UP THERE WAS NOT A LONG QUEUE OF INVESTORS LINING UP TO HELP US !

There are good times ahead i am certain but they will be built on solid foundations and not on the strength of one or two backers, get the club financially sound and of positive equity then build the name and the brand and through sponsorship and investment and the right people in the right roles and we will become the club we strive to be. The Malaysians have seen there is a reason to back Cardiff City and it is not because they are fans, it is because there is huge potential here, with their money they could have invested in many clubs but they didnt they chose us. We will have to suffer in the short term a little in reaching our targets but after going through the bullshit of last year and all the lies I am sure we can wait just a little longer.

All this of course is only my thoughts and opinion.

copyright of http://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk

Some interesting points there Carl.

Although there are a couple of things which need clarifying.

1. Is the Sam deal. I hope it is sorted, but it is far from certain that it would revert to £24m. The previous agreement would be in place (£15m0 and Sam would have to go back to court to try to have it set aside, which would be a nightmare from all sides. Also, there is as you say the chance to renegotiate this.

2. The 'directors' loans - unless the notes at the EGM were lies (remember who wrote them ), Isaacs is now only owed £500, which can be converted to shares if the club require and the balance of Borley's debt is to be paid over the next 12 months in installments.

As for PMG's money - has that not been reduced by the 'land deal ' - I'm asking because the figure widely quoted was £9m ish owing to them and the £1.9m for the land was supposed to reduce this, although it may have increased due to them chipping in for wages around/after Christmas ? £6.8m would be a lot better than £8.7m especially if another £2.7m could be shaved off. There is an agreement in place to pay off the balance by 2013.
Also is the £90k a month coming DIRECT from the Premier Club - as PMG get all the income from that to cover their loan+interest.

I'm also concerned that the club haven't come out to say they are not under a transfer embargo, and having argued that it would take time for the league to put this in place, I'd have to concede that either we are or will be very soon, unless money is paid quickly and given the silence from the club on the subject its not looking good.

One thing that hasn't been considered is that there WILL be money to come in from TV and the league which WILL help - clearly not enough. I wonder if the club are considering borrowing this money early again ? It doesn't appear to be TG and VT's style though.

Its going to be another nervy few months.

["carlccfc"][="steve davies"]as i have stated before the malaysians would be getting a highly ranked championship club with a state of the art stadium which could be expanded when needed for about 30 million over the next 24 months.
im sure they would see that as a bargain but i still think they will be squeezing existing debtors and shareholders to try and get it for less.

Im not for this view that they took a gamble on us reaching the premiership either because remember they were negotiating with ridsdale as far back as october and renewed their interest with steve borley in january.
if they wanted to make a quick buck they could have put a few million on blackpool to win the playoffs around easter time and imagine the return they would have got for that.

i agree with carl its going to be a painfull next 12 months but havent most of us had that all our lifes supporting the city.
if ive got to watch mid table mediocrity for the next 24 months to ensure that the club is debt free at the end of that period then bring it on.[/quote]

In fairness Steve you have remained consistent with your thoughts and you are being proved correct [/quote]


the other thing people forget carl is that the malaysians witnessed the anger of the fans when they realised they had been duped by the riddlers season ticket scam and that despite all the money brought in by those sales we never signed anyone and worst of all never paid the tax bill.
They were always aware of this and always aware that a lot of the next seasons income had been spent.
So in my opinion they went into the agreement to buy the shares with their eyes wide open and this why i maintain they are here for the long haul

The malayasians hold the playing cards, because even if the club is skint - they still have HUGE amounts of money, you can understand why they are drip feeding the club (for a number of reasons) and the leaches within the club will slowly be forced out some way or another!

The success of TG and VT and especially the Berjaya Group, only highlights the fact that they are astute business men, with an eye for a deal!! They came here to make money, and thats what they will do, but i think they will do it with the support and backing of the fans.

We still have to remember that VT's first ever spectacle of football was our play off final at Wembley, and it is both their first shot at a football business. Their Due dilligence took an awfully loong time, in which i assume was dealt with, with the utmost detail, and certainly putting a plan in place, to achieve their goals and targets over the coming year.

TG & VT will do the right thing, but I believe they will either have to go it alone or find other means of investment also. Because the current regime is obviously not working.

signed Merlin. (private joke!)