COULD THE MALAYSIANS

Be playing the waiting game ?

Is it that they are not rushing in with wads of cash and buying any player that DJ fantasizes about so they could 'buy the club' for much cheaper over a longer period. Are they drip feeding the club just to keep it alive and to keep the creditors at arms length and deal with them as and when they want too or have too.

Is there a strategy where our Chairman turns any additional monies into shares sometime in the future and then see off PMG, Whitely, Issacs and Borley and replace them with all over their own people of choice.

Tony blue Williams put this idea also in a post from another thread and I have extracted part of what he has written :

"There is a significant unissued shareholding worth £5.2m set aside for conversion of debt into equity by the likes of PMG, Michael Isaacs, Steve Borley and possibly Sam Hammam. Full use of these shares would reduce the Malaysians shareholding to just above 30%.

There is another 34,468,568 unissued shares which the Directors have the authority to allot in response to future investment opportunities. That amount is 22% of the total shares.

Vincent Tan has a mortgage charge against the clubs assets for monies he has already loaned the club. It is likely that by 2013 VT & TG will be owed around £30m for their debt repayments and refinancing of CCFC.

If they converted that £30m for the remaining shares they would gain 52% of the club. Each share would have cost them 1.1p (as opposed to the current 15.69p a share).

They would then be in a position to buy the other 48% of shares using the drag along option and in theory could offer 1.1p a share which would mean the original £5.2m of debt would have been settled for £35,000 plus they would have gained the rest of the clubs equity."

This post in no way states that this is the plan but truthfully nobody bar TG and Tan know their game plan but this post offers another strategy that may be possible.

I have spoken with Keith Morgan on this subject and it is possible Keith believes for them to buy the club for as 'little' as £22-£25million, and when the latest released set of accounts showed debts of £66million then to get everything for a third of the cost would be good business.

If the plan is what I have briefly explained this would mean that there would be a tough season this year and I would imagine that the objective on the footballing side would be to remain in the Championship.

In a word YES mate.

where did its say debts of 66 million m8? thought the liablities some were 29 million?

Carl, I actually see them having a plan like This and maybe even getting DJ to Move on for nothing and at the same time skin the Egg men.
But We might suffer on the pitch This Season, but thats the price we will pay for clearing the bad apples out of the barrel as they say.

Carl, that is exactly what i think, i even text a city fan earlier and said, "i dont think the malaysians want Sam they are just waiting for the club to go to the brink then they get the rest of the shares for peanuts, just my opinion". That is the exact text, very similar thoughts to your post.

Carl im just sick of all this shit. the malaysins have got the money so either they should take it all on warts and all or put us into admin and let the club regroup, at least we would know where the f**k we are then. all these mind games are pissing fans off

risky game and sounds like a very frustrating couple of seasons ahead for the impatient bluebird fans- i think we will be ok-we are cardiff city-we always survive at the last minute- blooooooooooooooooooooooooooooobirds

The current mess will cost us more points than administration.

Its a joke.

where did its say debts of 66 million m8? thought the liablities some were 29 million?

This is a post from Keith Morgan ( Since62 ) :

As at 31 May 2009 , CCFC Holdings owed a total of just a little under £66m to all of its creditors , about half of which was payable by 31 May this year and the other half payable after that (about £26m of which was only payable in 5 years time or more - principally the Langston debt).

where did its say debts of 66 million m8? thought the liablities some were 29 million?

If you add up every penny in the 2009 accounts which is owed out you would get a figure of around £66m.

However, Keith '62 has already admitted that the figure is out of date as it includes amoungst others £7m which has been repaid to Barclays, season ticket money paid up front (which has been settled by the 2009/10 season), naming rights for £9m and Promotion Bonus for £6m.

There is also potential to reduce Langston debt from £15 to £10, PMG's from £9.7m to £7m and Michael Iassacs from £2m to nothing.

By 2013 the club will either be in division 3 or extinct.
Failure on the pitch will lead to gates dropping.
The season ticket base is artificially high.
First of all it was the chance of a cup final ticket, and then the prospect
Of a premier league season ticket.
What incentive will there be to buy a season ticket next season.
TG & VT have put there foot in the proverbial football pool.
They seem to be out of their depth.
We are 4 or 5 players short of a promotion side.
They need to act now before their investment becomes worthless.

It would never have made sense for them to go splashing the cash, and spending millions with only a 30%ish shareholding.

The club is in a worse state that most realised, I mean who would have guessed we still haven't paid for last seasons players?!

As I've said a few times before, Tg/VT will be negotiating with creditors in order to come to more favourable agreements I'm sure. If they started spending massive money on big name players every creditor would be queuing up for their money to be paid back.
As things stand, they can try and come to agreements with creditors to reduce the liabilities and steady the ship.

I'm sure in the longer term they'll be looking to take a majority stake, but at the moment they're trying to get the liabilities sorted before anything else.

Carl, with regards to the 22-25m to buy the club, are you referring to a debt free club?

Is every carlccfc post made a sticky???

Is every carlccfc post made a sticky???

No they are not Stew and many other posters threads are stickys also.

It would never have made sense for them to go splashing the cash, and spending millions with only a 30%ish shareholding.

The club is in a worse state that most realised, I mean who would have guessed we still haven't paid for last seasons players?!

As I've said a few times before, Tg/VT will be negotiating with creditors in order to come to more favourable agreements I'm sure. If they started spending massive money on big name players every creditor would be queuing up for their money to be paid back.
As things stand, they can try and come to agreements with creditors to reduce the liabilities and steady the ship.

I'm sure in the longer term they'll be looking to take a majority stake, but at the moment they're trying to get the liabilities sorted before anything else.

Carl, with regards to the 22-25m to buy the club, are you referring to a debt free club?

It was not my comment Owain but I believe it was meant as debt free yes.

It was not my comment Owain but I believe it was meant as debt free yes.

Yep I know it was what Keith was saying, but I wasn't really sure what was meant.

the malaysians know what there doing, it might not look bright at the moment but they will work it out, i still think there are what we need to sort this mess out

where did its say debts of 66 million m8? thought the liablities some were 29 million?

I asked Annis the other day that i heard someone say we have debts of 66mill . but that is only from someone sending me a text.

They were pretty sure by now they would be in control of a premier league side.
Now I believe they are caught between 2 stools.
1 Wanting the badge of owning a football club
And
2 wanting out as the costs of getting u on an even keel are enormous.

They were pretty sure by now they would be in control of a premier league side.
Now I believe they are caught between 2 stools.
1 Wanting the badge of owning a football club
And
2 wanting out as the costs of getting u on an even keel are enormous.

They put money in before the season end, but the share issue etc wasn't completed until after the playoffs I don't think.
If they only wanted premiership football I'm sure they wouldn't still be putting money in for wages etc.

They put money in before the season end, but the share issue etc wasn't completed until after the playoffs I don't think.
If they only wanted premiership football I'm sure they wouldn't still be putting money in for wages etc.[/quote]



well said!

They put money in before the season end, but the share issue etc wasn't completed until after the playoffs I don't think.
If they only wanted premiership football I'm sure they wouldn't still be putting money in for wages etc.

well said![/quote]
If that’s what you believe fine by me.
But I don't believe in fairies or pink elephants.
Have they put in this month’s wages,payed outstanding transfer fees and tax owed.
I doubt it.

They put money in before the season end, but the share issue etc wasn't completed until after the playoffs I don't think.
If they only wanted premiership football I'm sure they wouldn't still be putting money in for wages etc.

well said!

If that’s what you believe fine by me.
But I don't believe in fairies or pink elephants.
Have they put in this month’s wages,payed outstanding transfer fees and tax owed.
I doubt it.[/quote]

I don't believe in fairies or pink elephants either, but the Malaysians have been putting money in for wages, and will be putting more money in again. Without their money where would we be?

It would be great if they said here's £20m to spend, but it doesn't really work like that. Especially when they only own a third of the club.
I'm pretty sure the other's haven't put much money up.

They put money in before the season end, but the share issue etc wasn't completed until after the playoffs I don't think.
If they only wanted premiership football I'm sure they wouldn't still be putting money in for wages etc.

well said!

If that’s what you believe fine by me.
But I don't believe in fairies or pink elephants.
Have they put in this month’s wages,payed outstanding transfer fees and tax owed.
I doubt it.

I don't believe in fairies or pink elephants either, but the Malaysians have been putting money in for wages, and will be putting more money in again. Without their money where would we be?

It would be great if they said here's £20m to spend, but it doesn't really work like that. Especially when they only own a third of the club.
I'm pretty sure the other's haven't put much money up.[/quote]



welll we will just have to wait and see but i honestly think there here for the long run

Be playing the waiting game ?

Is it that they are not rushing in with wads of cash and buying any player that DJ fantasizes about so they could 'buy the club' for much cheaper over a longer period. Are they drip feeding the club just to keep it alive and to keep the creditors at arms length and deal with them as and when they want too or have too.

Is there a strategy where our Chairman turns any additional monies into shares sometime in the future and then see off PMG, Whitely, Issacs and Borley and replace them with all over their own people of choice.

Tony blue Williams put this idea also in a post from another thread and I have extracted part of what he has written :

"There is a significant unissued shareholding worth £5.2m set aside for conversion of debt into equity by the likes of PMG, Michael Isaacs, Steve Borley and possibly Sam Hammam. Full use of these shares would reduce the Malaysians shareholding to just above 30%.

There is another 34,468,568 unissued shares which the Directors have the authority to allot in response to future investment opportunities. That amount is 22% of the total shares.

Vincent Tan has a mortgage charge against the clubs assets for monies he has already loaned the club. It is likely that by 2013 VT & TG will be owed around £30m for their debt repayments and refinancing of CCFC.

If they converted that £30m for the remaining shares they would gain 52% of the club. Each share would have cost them 1.1p (as opposed to the current 15.69p a share).

They would then be in a position to buy the other 48% of shares using the drag along option and in theory could offer 1.1p a share which would mean the original £5.2m of debt would have been settled for £35,000 plus they would have gained the rest of the clubs equity."

This post in no way states that this is the plan but truthfully nobody bar TG and Tan know their game plan but this post offers another strategy that may be possible.

I have spoken with Keith Morgan on this subject and it is possible Keith believes for them to buy the club for as 'little' as £22-£25million, and when the latest released set of accounts showed debts of £66million then to get everything for a third of the cost would be good business.

If the plan is what I have briefly explained this would mean that there would be a tough season this year and I would imagine that the objective on the footballing side would be to remain in the Championship.

BINGO!!!........you have hit the nail on the head.....These people are businesmen,and they are waiting to see any CLOSET lurking creditors creep out of their undergrowth and revealing themselves.Malaysian businessmen are not naive,that is why they thrive.
All we can do is watch and wait!!!

Is every carlccfc post made a sticky???

Is that our biggest worry just now?

They put money in before the season end, but the share issue etc wasn't completed until after the playoffs I don't think.
If they only wanted premiership football I'm sure they wouldn't still be putting money in for wages etc.

well said!

If that’s what you believe fine by me.
But I don't believe in fairies or pink elephants.
Have they put in this month’s wages,payed outstanding transfer fees and tax owed.
I doubt it.

I don't believe in fairies or pink elephants either, but the Malaysians have been putting money in for wages, and will be putting more money in again. Without their money where would we be?

It would be great if they said here's £20m to spend, but it doesn't really work like that. Especially when they only own a third of the club.
I'm pretty sure the other's haven't put much money up.[/quote]

spot on.
Its painful for us, but from a business perspective it makes sense for them to put in bit by bit until they are clear as to where they are.

if they put in, say £10m now it would create a whole new problem... creditors would queuing up to take their cut and it would all be gone. The committments made to stadium creditors, PMG, Langston £83k/mth),HMRC etc.. will all need paying over the next few months, and then either a deal with Sam or another £9m to him by Christmas. At least from August we will be getting some gate money in, and the October the TV money which will help get us through to Christmas.

At that point Christmas, we can sell new season tickets and the pressure will be off for a few months, before the TV money comes in for the rest of the season in March. Then there will be a choice come the summer as to put more in or sell a player.

They probably need to put £5m in this season, and sort a deal out with Sam. By next summer the debts could be reduced further if the costs are controlled in the meantime - and we could be looking at another share issue to improve this further (perhaps turning the £5m the Malaysians will have to put in into shares and thus giving them control).

I'm not convinced they see that they have to pay Sam off immediately (and this will be their position in their meetings with him), and PMG have already agreed to a staged payment over the next 3 1/2 years so no need at all to take any action with them.

Its not going to be pretty, but longer term I think we will have a stronger club.

Or maybe they wanted a Premiership club and now that ain't happening they are cutting their losses at 6 million and running. They have no love for the club.

Or maybe they wanted a Premiership club and now that ain't happening they are cutting their losses at 6 million and running. They have no love for the club.

Sadly this maybe the case

Or maybe they wanted a Premiership club and now that ain't happening they are cutting their losses at 6 million and running. They have no love for the club.

Sadly this maybe the case

They did not rubberstamp their £6million investment ( well £5million anyway ) until AFTER we had failed to reach the Premier League. So they could have ' cut their costs at a mere £1million '.