Opinions: So have the police lied again?

A very tragic situation where two young boys died RIP

Update:



South Wales Deputy Chief Constable Rachel Bacon:

“Due to the investigation. We cannot comment or say if there was any pursuit taking place.”


Sky News:

Video

https://news.sky.com/video/cardiff-new- ... y-12888337



Sky News:

Say they now have obtained two more pieces of footage of the police chasing the two boys.




Watch

Are the police guilty? ??

They are both going fast

https://t.co/1RicrWUkHJ



BBC

Police said they were called to reports of a crash in Snowden Road at 6:03pm on Monday and the video from a house in the area appears to show a bike being followed by police at 5.59pm on a road about 900 metres away. South Wales Police says the collision had "already occurred" when officers arrived.

Police and crime commissioner Alun Michael had said before the CCTV footage emerged that no chase had occurred. He said there were "unfounded rumours of a police chase which was not the case and it just shows how, particularly with things going around on social media which may have very little connection with the truth, things can escalate very rapidly".

On Tuesday afternoon, South Wales Police Chief Superintendent Martyn Stone said the new footage would "form part of the investigation". He then left the press conference after making his statement without taking any questions as journalists asked why people were not told the bike had been followed by police and why the police and crime commissioner had "said something completely different" earlier in the day.

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Looking at that video all it shows is a police van behind the kids on a bike at that time . I would assume if the police were chasing they would have the lights flashing ? ( that is just an assumption that they would )
Think a lot has yet to come out about the deaths of these kids as yet I have not seen anything on if they hit motor car , Hit a wall etc
The Police stated that no Police car /van was on the same road of the accident at the time of the accident . Which may well be correct or may be misleading depending on your view
To say they are lying at present based on that video is a big step in my opinion Many times police cars have been behind me and i never felt they were chasing me.
A full Police investigation must happen no doubt about that to get to the reasons why two young kids are dead.

Wait for the full fact's,the van might have been on its way somewhere else and gone past the bike and carried on we don't know , every police vehicle has a tracker on it so they will be able to tell if any police vehicle was involved

Looking at that video all it shows is a police van behind the kids on a bike at that time . I would assume if the police were chasing they would have the lights flashing ? ( that is just an assumption that they would )
Think a lot has yet to come out about the deaths of these kids as yet I have not seen anything on if they hit motor car , Hit a wall etc
The Police stated that no Police car /van was on the same road of the accident at the time of the accident . Which may well be correct or may be misleading depending on your view
To say they are lying at present based on that video is a big step in my opinion Many times police cars have been behind me and i never felt they were chasing me.
A full Police investigation must happen no doubt about that to get to the reasons why two young kids are dead.

That's more like it

As I said, there is a lot more to come out yet and it is worth noting that video was taken about half a mile away...

What is undeniably sad is that two young people died in a tragic incident and no amount of blame/deflection will bring them back to their grieving families...

Looking at that video all it shows is a police van behind the kids on a bike at that time . I would assume if the police were chasing they would have the lights flashing ? ( that is just an assumption that they would )
Think a lot has yet to come out about the deaths of these kids as yet I have not seen anything on if they hit motor car , Hit a wall etc
The Police stated that no Police car /van was on the same road of the accident at the time of the accident . Which may well be correct or may be misleading depending on your view
To say they are lying at present based on that video is a big step in my opinion Many times police cars have been behind me and i never felt they were chasing me.
A full Police investigation must happen no doubt about that to get to the reasons why two young kids are dead.

That's more like it

As I said, there is a lot more to come out yet and it is worth noting that video was taken about half a mile away...

What is undeniably sad is that two young people died in a tragic incident and no amount of blame/deflection will bring them back to their grieving families...

As you know there are a number of roads between Frank road and site of the accident and Police could easily have pulled off to another road So many options from Frank Rd
Let’s hope Police are not being economical with the truth either Again knowing the area the site of the accident is one long road split into two street names So they technically could have been 20 yards behind them and still be in a different street

The police will have details of exact position of any police car at the time of the accident

Looking at that video all it shows is a police van behind the kids on a bike at that time . I would assume if the police were chasing they would have the lights flashing ? ( that is just an assumption that they would )
Think a lot has yet to come out about the deaths of these kids as yet I have not seen anything on if they hit motor car , Hit a wall etc
The Police stated that no Police car /van was on the same road of the accident at the time of the accident . Which may well be correct or may be misleading depending on your view
To say they are lying at present based on that video is a big step in my opinion Many times police cars have been behind me and i never felt they were chasing me.
A full Police investigation must happen no doubt about that to get to the reasons why two young kids are dead.

That's more like it

As I said, there is a lot more to come out yet and it is worth noting that video was taken about half a mile away...

What is undeniably sad is that two young people died in a tragic incident and no amount of blame/deflection will bring them back to their grieving families...

As you know there are a number of roads between Frank road and site of the accident and Police could easily have pulled off to another road So many options from Frank Rd
Let’s hope Police are not being economical with the truth either Again knowing the area the site of the accident is one long road split into two street names So they technically could have been 20 yards behind them and still be in a different street

The police will have details of exact position of any police car at the time of the accident

Summise all you like; but it will all come out...

Sky News:

Say they now have obtained two more pieces of footage of the police chasing the two boys.

Replies Twitter:

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Replies Twitter:

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SWP confirms through its 'tracking' system that the police van in question was 1/2 mile away in Grand Avenue at the time of the incident and no other vehicles were involved...

Whether it was going the long way around because there are bollards at that end is yet to be confirmed but the jig-saw is being put together and questions will be answered

South Wales Deputy Chief Constable Rachel Bacon:

“Due to the investigation. We cannot comment or say if there was any pursuit taking place.”

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This def looks a chase

https://t.co/1RicrWUkHJ


And the two footages on Sky News:



Imagine if this had not been filmed?

This def looks a chase

https://t.co/1RicrWUkHJ


And the two footages on Sky News:



Imagine if this had not been filmed?

https://news.sky.com/video/cardiff-new- ... y-12888337

This def looks a chase

https://t.co/1RicrWUkHJ


And the two footages on Sky News:



Imagine if this had not been filmed?

https://news.sky.com/video/cardiff-new- ... y-12888337

In my view that’s a chase

Tbh. I think we should not speculate until all the information is available.

This is a tragic situation but we have absolutely no idea as to the circumstances of the case or what led to them riding high speed anyway.

Tbh. I think we should not speculate until all the information is available.

This is a tragic situation but we have absolutely no idea as to the circumstances of the case or what led to them riding high speed anyway.

Very tragic.

We are allowed to discuss as is probably every family in the UK.

The news is as well.

But what the police tried originally try to say was there no chase, my view the videos show different.

But what happened afterwards, Nine of us see you know at this time.

Replies FB:

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Tbh. I think we should not speculate until all the information is available.

This is a tragic situation but we have absolutely no idea as to the circumstances of the case or what led to them riding high speed anyway.

We are allowed to discuss as is probably every family in the UK.

The news is as well.

But what the police tried originally try to say was there no chase, my view the videos show different.

But what happened afterwards, Nine of us see you know at this time.

Absolutely!

The issue is not with the visible CCTV, etc. but whether the van was 'chasing' the bike at point of crashing. According to SWP, the van's tracking says it wasn't...

The investigation is ongoing and as I say elsewhere, there is a lot more to come out, including about the public unrest, too...

Tbh. I think we should not speculate until all the information is available.

This is a tragic situation but we have absolutely no idea as to the circumstances of the case or what led to them riding high speed anyway.

We are allowed to discuss as is probably every family in the UK.

The news is as well.

But what the police tried originally try to say was there no chase, my view the videos show different.

But what happened afterwards, Nine of us see you know at this time.

Absolutely!

The issue is not with the visible CCTV, etc. but whether the van was 'chasing' the bike at point of crashing. According to SWP, the van's tracking says it wasn't...

The investigation is ongoing and as I say elsewhere, there is a lot more to come out, including about the public unrest, too...

I agree Chris,

That’s what will decide everything.

But until the BBC found the private / house CCTV , they had tried to make out they were not even following the boys.

The police vans CCTV will also reveal the truth.

For the first time:

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It’s clear from the cctv that they were pursuing the lads on the bike with how fast and close they were travelling behind them. The fact that the Inspector and the PCC have both stated publicly that no pursuit was ongoing at the time shows that they’re trying to cover their arses.

IOPC will investigate as usual and very much doubt we’ll hear the outcome. We may hear the outcome from the coroners court. If they are found to have been in pursuit, with or without blues and 2’s then the PCC needs to resign.

As previously said a lot to come out yet. A reporter stated the police should explain why they were chasing the boys and why they took so long to get to the scene of the accident. The two don’t add up???

It’s clear from the cctv that they were pursuing the lads on the bike with how fast and close they were travelling behind them. The fact that the Inspector and the PCC have both stated publicly that no pursuit was ongoing at the time shows that they’re trying to cover their arses.

IOPC will investigate as usual and very much doubt we’ll hear the outcome. We may hear the outcome from the coroners court. If they are found to have been in pursuit, with or without blues and 2’s then the PCC needs to resign.

Agree

Couple more videos on this article show how close the van was to the bike

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/new-cctv-footage-emerges-police-26985631

Imho it isn’t clear they were pursuing. On account they can’t pursue in vans. They have specialist drivers and vehicles for pursuits. Plus they didn’t have their lights on.

They may have been following them. But following and in pursuit aren’t the same. Also the van was half a mile away when the collision happened.

It will all be investigated. It’s tragic that 2 young men have lost their lives. But it doesn’t automatically hold that the police caused it.

2 guys driving an illegal motorcycle is bound to attract attention. They would have been criticised if they HADNT investigated.

Imho it isn’t clear they were pursuing. On account they can’t pursue in vans. They have specialist drivers and vehicles for pursuits. Plus they didn’t have their lights on.

They may have been following them. But following and in pursuit aren’t the same. Also the van was half a mile away when the collision happened.

It will all be investigated. It’s tragic that 2 young men have lost their lives. But it doesn’t automatically hold that the police caused it.

2 guys driving an illegal motorcycle is bound to attract attention. They would have been criticised if they HADNT investigated.

1) they don’t need lights or sirens to be in a pursuit (Roads Traffic Police as per Traffic Cops 2023)

2) it was an battery powered electric pedal cycle not a motorcycle

3) CCTV videos show the van less than 3 seconds behind them 900m from the crash site NOT 1/2 mile away as the police stated

4) they were 15 and 16 year old KIDS….

A reminder that PCC Alun Michael initially claimed there was no chase at all.

A BBC reporter at the press conference told DCC Bacon: "It seems as though the only reason [the police van] couldn't get on to the road where the crash happened is the bollards at the end."

Two young kids on an Ebike , with a police van close behind , I would panic if I was 15 !
What if the police van driver (this is pure conjecture ) decided to wind the kids up , by following very fast and closely behind them .
Maybe the kids were frightened and purely innocently tried to get away , and lost concentration ?
We have all been teenagers and a percentage of us , have experienced police over stepping for fun !!!

Two young kids on an Ebike , with a police van close behind , I would panic if I was 15 !
What if the police van driver (this is pure conjecture ) decided to wind the kids up , by following very fast and closely behind them .
Maybe the kids were frightened and purely innocently tried to get away , and lost concentration ?
We have all been teenagers and a percentage of us , have experienced police over stepping for fun !!!

Thinking of when I was a kid, my automatic reaction would have been to run. Wether I'd done anything wrong or not.