“ SLEEPING GIANTS “

Cardiff city capital of wales massive fan base biggest thriving city in Europe all the potential is there in front of us all to see we just need 1 wealthy human to free us from this TAN SHIT SHOW .

It’s a shame, because you’re right. The club is potentially a sleeping giant.

Capital of Wales, massive catchment area of support, new stadium, and training ground etc.

Unfortunately the club is being held back by hierarchy!

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I respectfully disagree.

1. We are a UK capital city with only one club.
2. We have a catchment area of 1.5M people, most with enough disposable income to afford our cheap tickets (Source Future Wales 2040 - WG blueprint).
3. Football is the most popular sport in Wales by a huge margin.
4. We have a significant number of potential fans who have always been into whatever big 6 is current who are only attracted to PL but with no link to City.
5. Our 2 outings in the PL prove we can more than fill a 33k stadium. There is a demographic that only want to see PL football.
6. The Red Wall success proves point 5, many only came back as we were successful.
7. Sustained PL football is the only thing that will realise the above potential.

And there is a realistic plan available to achieve all of this. And it could happen with a penstroke from VT and starting as of tomorrow. He stands a chance of getting a fair chunk of his money back, steps aside, eventually sells and sails off into the sunset with his honour intact.

It really is that simple, absolutely realistic business wise and can be done in a heartbeat.

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I respectfully disagree.

1. We are a UK capital city with only one club.
2. We have a catchment area of 1.5M people, most with enough disposable income to afford our cheap tickets (Source Future Wales 2040 - WG blueprint).
3. Football is the most popular sport in Wales by a huge margin.
4. We have a significant number of potential fans who have always been into whatever big 6 is current who are only attracted to PL but with no link to City.
5. Our 2 outings in the PL prove we can more than fill a 33k stadium. There is a demographic that only want to see PL football.
6. The Red Wall success proves point 5, many only came back as we were successful.
7. Sustained PL football is the only thing that will realise the above potential.

And there is a realistic plan available to achieve all of this. And it could happen with a penstroke from VT and starting as of tomorrow. He stands a chance of getting a fair chunk of his money back, steps aside, eventually sells and sails off into the sunset with his honour intact.

It really is that simple, absolutely realistic business wise and can be done in a heartbeat.

Well, another very we written post from GrangeEndStar, who seems to have a better handle on the club's geographical location than many of us...

A refreshingly positive view on the situation and one I'm not going to disagree with...

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I respectfully disagree.

1. We are a UK capital city with only one club.
2. We have a catchment area of 1.5M people, most with enough disposable income to afford our cheap tickets (Source Future Wales 2040 - WG blueprint).
3. Football is the most popular sport in Wales by a huge margin.
4. We have a significant number of potential fans who have always been into whatever big 6 is current who are only attracted to PL but with no link to City.
5. Our 2 outings in the PL prove we can more than fill a 33k stadium. There is a demographic that only want to see PL football.
6. The Red Wall success proves point 5, many only came back as we were successful.
7. Sustained PL football is the only thing that will realise the above potential.

And there is a realistic plan available to achieve all of this. And it could happen with a penstroke from VT and starting as of tomorrow. He stands a chance of getting a fair chunk of his money back, steps aside, eventually sells and sails off into the sunset with his honour intact.

It really is that simple, absolutely realistic business wise and can be done in a heartbeat.

Wekl, another very we written post from GrangeEndStar, who seems to have a better handle on the club's geographical location than many of us...

A refreshingly positive view on the situation and one I'm not going to disagree with...

Cheers Sven. And also important to note we have a stadium and infrastructure to support all of the above and with the potential to expand it's capacity.

Game has changed.. our players( one of whom I saw today) are driving around in £100,000+ cars.. this player is less than average and gets much flak on here.
Little wonder owners are reticent to invest. The greedy players and their Agents are killing it stone dead.

Tan is shrewd and won’t pay. Can’t say I blame him.

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I respectfully disagree.

1. We are a UK capital city with only one club.
2. We have a catchment area of 1.5M people, most with enough disposable income to afford our cheap tickets (Source Future Wales 2040 - WG blueprint).
3. Football is the most popular sport in Wales by a huge margin.
4. We have a significant number of potential fans who have always been into whatever big 6 is current who are only attracted to PL but with no link to City.
5. Our 2 outings in the PL prove we can more than fill a 33k stadium. There is a demographic that only want to see PL football.
6. The Red Wall success proves point 5, many only came back as we were successful.
7. Sustained PL football is the only thing that will realise the above potential.

And there is a realistic plan available to achieve all of this. And it could happen with a penstroke from VT and starting as of tomorrow. He stands a chance of getting a fair chunk of his money back, steps aside, eventually sells and sails off into the sunset with his honour intact.

It really is that simple, absolutely realistic business wise and can be done in a heartbeat.

Wekl, another very we written post from GrangeEndStar, who seems to have a better handle on the club's geographical location than many of us...

A refreshingly positive view on the situation and one I'm not going to disagree with...

Cheers Sven. And also important to note we have a stadium and infrastructure to support all of the above and with the potential to expand it's capacity.

An excellent piece, and people dont realise that it IS actually a proposal simple enough to put in place... immediately.

Game has changed.. our players( one of whom I saw today) are driving around in £100,000+ cars.. this player is less than average and gets much flak on here.
Little wonder owners are reticent to invest. The greedy players and their Agents are killing it stone dead.

Tan is shrewd and won’t pay. Can’t say I blame him.

Again, I would respectfully disagree.

Tan has personally invested north of £200m in 14 years.

The PL revenues and parachute payments have been wasted through top down mismanagement which is ultimately down to him.

If he had spent the equivalent 50% of his personal investment wisely over 5 years, we would be where Brighton, Bournemouth and others are now. Sustained PL success.

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I respectfully disagree.

1. We are a UK capital city with only one club.
2. We have a catchment area of 1.5M people, most with enough disposable income to afford our cheap tickets (Source Future Wales 2040 - WG blueprint).
3. Football is the most popular sport in Wales by a huge margin.
4. We have a significant number of potential fans who have always been into whatever big 6 is current who are only attracted to PL but with no link to City.
5. Our 2 outings in the PL prove we can more than fill a 33k stadium. There is a demographic that only want to see PL football.
6. The Red Wall success proves point 5, many only came back as we were successful.
7. Sustained PL football is the only thing that will realise the above potential.

And there is a realistic plan available to achieve all of this. And it could happen with a penstroke from VT and starting as of tomorrow. He stands a chance of getting a fair chunk of his money back, steps aside, eventually sells and sails off into the sunset with his honour intact.

It really is that simple, absolutely realistic business wise and can be done in a heartbeat.

Wekl, another very we written post from GrangeEndStar, who seems to have a better handle on the club's geographical location than many of us...

A refreshingly positive view on the situation and one I'm not going to disagree with...

Cheers Sven. And also important to note we have a stadium and infrastructure to support all of the above and with the potential to expand it's capacity.

An excellent piece, and people dont realise that it IS actually a proposal simple enough to put in place... immediately.

I would suggest a look to our neighbours at The Principality Stadium is all the evidence we need...

Cardiff is a magnet for big events and we really should be tapping in...

Did I miss the proposed plan for tan? What is said is true though

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I happen to agree with you. Not ever having been a hotbed of football makes it much more difficult to attract top rated players to the area. Regardless of how a wealthy owner would help our cause and notwithstanding Cardiff is a popular and well-regarded city still doesn't alter the fact that there are other clubs who will always trump us when it comes to location.
Think London, Manchester, Liverpool and the North East for instance and you get the gist.

This conversation often seems to come up when we have a bit of a gap between games. My answer is always the same - we're not sleeping giants.

That's because there is no such thing as a sleeping giants these days.

There are big clubs and clubs who aspire to reach the elite.

When I say I elite, I mean breaking into European competition or finishing in the top eight of the PL.

The likes of Brighton, Middlesbrough, Leicester etc have all done that over the last 20 years. But none of those clubs are giants, sleeping or otherwise.

If you mean can we get back to the PL and stay there, of course we can because any club can. Last season we saw Luton get there. Previously the likes of Burnley, Bournemouth, Huddersfield and Blackpool have all stayed there for a bit.

There are plenty of clubs in the Championship who are seen as "bigger' because they have high attendances and good catchment areas. But that means nothing if a club isn't at least competing for promotion to the PL. Just look at how Leeds, Southampton and Sheffield Wednesday all went down to League One.


So there's no such thing as a sleeping giant. Any club of any size can make it to the top tier and compete with most teams there.

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I happen to agree with you. Not ever having been a hotbed of football makes it much more difficult to attract top rated players to the area. Regardless of how a wealthy owner would help our cause and notwithstanding Cardiff is a popular and well-regarded city still doesn't alter the fact that there are other clubs who will always trump us when it comes to location.
Think London, Manchester, Liverpool and the North East for instance and you get the gist.

Would you call Bournemouth and Brighton a hotbed of football yet they have achieved sustained PL success?

Our fan potential is far bigger - 1.5M within easy reach and well connected to a city that is an attractive destination. We have world class events 10 minutes away at the Principality Stadium that proves this. And PL football is a world class event that draws people in.

Liverpool and Manchester's populations are a third of our potential catchment area. They are popular and established by continued and established success, as are the usual top 6, many of which have multiple clubs in their area. Many of their supporters are not from their city or region, they have become global brands because of their continued success.

But let's remove even that from the equation.

Even if we only had the 12K capacity of Bournemouth, the sustainable revenue core income is not from STs or merch, it's from pure PL revenue, the former is important of course but is a side income. That is what they and others have achieved. And so can we but even bigger. The statistics, trends and data is all there to support it.

What this is really about is a realistic plan to ultimately achieve the above and more for the long term.

And as I've pointed out, it's entirely realistic and could be done tomorrow in a penstroke.

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I happen to agree with you. Not ever having been a hotbed of football makes it much more difficult to attract top rated players to the area. Regardless of how a wealthy owner would help our cause and notwithstanding Cardiff is a popular and well-regarded city still doesn't alter the fact that there are other clubs who will always trump us when it comes to location.
Think London, Manchester, Liverpool and the North East for instance and you get the gist.

Would you call Bournemouth and Brighton a hotbed of football yet they have achieved sustained PL success?

Our fan potential is far bigger - 1.5M within easy reach and well connected to a city that is an attractive destination. We have world class events 10 minutes away at the Principality Stadium that proves this. And PL football is a world class event that draws people in.

Liverpool and Manchester's populations are a third of our potential catchment area. They are popular and established by continued and established success, as are the usual top 6, many of which have multiple clubs in their area. Many of their supporters are not from their city or region, they have become global brands because of their continued success.

But let's remove even that from the equation.

Even if we only had the 12K capacity of Bournemouth, the sustainable revenue core income is not from STs or merch, it's from pure PL revenue, the former is important of course but is a side income. That is what they and others have achieved. And so can we but even bigger. The statistics, trends and data is all there to support it.

What this is really about is a realistic plan to ultimately achieve the above and more for the long term.

And as I've pointed out, it's entirely realistic and could be done tomorrow in a penstroke.

Paul what is the realistic plan? Being a bit dense I'm afraid

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I happen to agree with you. Not ever having been a hotbed of football makes it much more difficult to attract top rated players to the area. Regardless of how a wealthy owner would help our cause and notwithstanding Cardiff is a popular and well-regarded city still doesn't alter the fact that there are other clubs who will always trump us when it comes to location.
Think London, Manchester, Liverpool and the North East for instance and you get the gist.

Would you call Bournemouth and Brighton a hotbed of football yet they have achieved sustained PL success?

Our fan potential is far bigger - 1.5M within easy reach and well connected to a city that is an attractive destination. We have world class events 10 minutes away at the Principality Stadium that proves this. And PL football is a world class event that draws people in.

Liverpool and Manchester's populations are a third of our potential catchment area. They are popular and established by continued and established success, as are the usual top 6, many of which have multiple clubs in their area. Many of their supporters are not from their city or region, they have become global brands because of their continued success.

But let's remove even that from the equation.

Even if we only had the 12K capacity of Bournemouth, the sustainable revenue core income is not from STs or merch, it's from pure PL revenue, the former is important of course but is a side income. That is what they and others have achieved. And so can we but even bigger. The statistics, trends and data is all there to support it.

What this is really about is a realistic plan to ultimately achieve the above and more for the long term.

And as I've pointed out, it's entirely realistic and could be done tomorrow in a penstroke.

Obviously neither Brighton nor Bournemouth are hotbeds of football but that is not the point. Geographically they are not as isolated as Cardiff is and Brighton in particular is only 50 miles from London. Generally speaking I would imagine English players feel more at home living on the south coast than upping sticks and moving to
South Wales.

Even if we achieved a modicum of success in the PL, our geographical location would always be a hindrance in my view.

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I happen to agree with you. Not ever having been a hotbed of football makes it much more difficult to attract top rated players to the area. Regardless of how a wealthy owner would help our cause and notwithstanding Cardiff is a popular and well-regarded city still doesn't alter the fact that there are other clubs who will always trump us when it comes to location.
Think London, Manchester, Liverpool and the North East for instance and you get the gist.

Would you call Bournemouth and Brighton a hotbed of football yet they have achieved sustained PL success?

Our fan potential is far bigger - 1.5M within easy reach and well connected to a city that is an attractive destination. We have world class events 10 minutes away at the Principality Stadium that proves this. And PL football is a world class event that draws people in.

Liverpool and Manchester's populations are a third of our potential catchment area. They are popular and established by continued and established success, as are the usual top 6, many of which have multiple clubs in their area. Many of their supporters are not from their city or region, they have become global brands because of their continued success.

But let's remove even that from the equation.

Even if we only had the 12K capacity of Bournemouth, the sustainable revenue core income is not from STs or merch, it's from pure PL revenue, the former is important of course but is a side income. That is what they and others have achieved. And so can we but even bigger. The statistics, trends and data is all there to support it.

What this is really about is a realistic plan to ultimately achieve the above and more for the long term.

And as I've pointed out, it's entirely realistic and could be done tomorrow in a penstroke.

Paul what is the realistic plan? Being a bit dense I'm afraid

No doubt it involves a certain former owner who still deeply loves the club he took to the brink of extinction who now can't wait to spend millions of pounds of his own personal monies riding in on a white horse to save the club he holds deep in his heart having learned his lessons from his previous mistakes.

Cardiff are a sleeping giant, but because we have never had since the 1950’s top level football consistently we’ve never been able to keep the floating fans.

Remember Tans Circus have set us back again when he could of been a hero.

The Despicable Rebrand / Court Cases beyond / Badly run / manager after manger / two promotions, but immediately both followed by disastrous relegations / dents increased / dire football again and the last few years of struggling.

False promises, Let the fans down time and time again, So fans are leaving once again and are fed up.

We have never had owners for nearly 60 years who have taken us to top flight football and kept us their and been consistent.


Give us an owner and give us half of Leicester City’s Success and you will see 40,000-50,000 home fans.

Bluebirds

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I happen to agree with you. Not ever having been a hotbed of football makes it much more difficult to attract top rated players to the area. Regardless of how a wealthy owner would help our cause and notwithstanding Cardiff is a popular and well-regarded city still doesn't alter the fact that there are other clubs who will always trump us when it comes to location.
Think London, Manchester, Liverpool and the North East for instance and you get the gist.

Would you call Bournemouth and Brighton a hotbed of football yet they have achieved sustained PL success?

Our fan potential is far bigger - 1.5M within easy reach and well connected to a city that is an attractive destination. We have world class events 10 minutes away at the Principality Stadium that proves this. And PL football is a world class event that draws people in.

Liverpool and Manchester's populations are a third of our potential catchment area. They are popular and established by continued and established success, as are the usual top 6, many of which have multiple clubs in their area. Many of their supporters are not from their city or region, they have become global brands because of their continued success.

But let's remove even that from the equation.

Even if we only had the 12K capacity of Bournemouth, the sustainable revenue core income is not from STs or merch, it's from pure PL revenue, the former is important of course but is a side income. That is what they and others have achieved. And so can we but even bigger. The statistics, trends and data is all there to support it.

What this is really about is a realistic plan to ultimately achieve the above and more for the long term.

And as I've pointed out, it's entirely realistic and could be done tomorrow in a penstroke.

Paul what is the realistic plan? Being a bit dense I'm afraid

No doubt it involves a certain former owner who still deeply loves the club he took to the brink of extinction who now can't wait to spend millions of pounds of his own personal monies riding in on a white horse to save the club he holds deep in his heart having learned his lessons from his previous mistakes.

Wow here we go lol

Our Club back in the late 90’s -2000 was virtually every year on the verge of extinction if you were there like me week in week out David then you know I am telling the truth.
Crowds went as low as 1,400 at home and one away game we took 11 away fans.
9 yrs in the 4th Division, struggling near the bottom.

Ninian Park totally run down , No one wanted us.

Where were the fans then?

Where were the buyers?

Where were we going?


Your Tans would not of touched us in League 4 and a ground like Ninian Park which I loved.

Annis, I would back over the road in a heartbeat.
Progress they call it lol.
Back on topic, saying we had full stadiums whilst in PL proves the point that the game and fans are fickle, look at the meltdown on here lately.

We should be the Celtic of Wales with Premiership money!

Game has changed.. our players( one of whom I saw today) are driving around in £100,000+ cars.. this player is less than average and gets much flak on here.
Little wonder owners are reticent to invest. The greedy players and their Agents are killing it stone dead.

Tan is shrewd and won’t pay. Can’t say I blame him.

I totally agree with that .They have all been payed way way to much for years and years football needs to change its ridiculous stupid and pathetic how much footballers get payed for kicking a bloody ball around .its killing clubs in all leagues including the prem

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I happen to agree with you. Not ever having been a hotbed of football makes it much more difficult to attract top rated players to the area. Regardless of how a wealthy owner would help our cause and notwithstanding Cardiff is a popular and well-regarded city still doesn't alter the fact that there are other clubs who will always trump us when it comes to location.
Think London, Manchester, Liverpool and the North East for instance and you get the gist.

Would you call Bournemouth and Brighton a hotbed of football yet they have achieved sustained PL success?

Our fan potential is far bigger - 1.5M within easy reach and well connected to a city that is an attractive destination. We have world class events 10 minutes away at the Principality Stadium that proves this. And PL football is a world class event that draws people in.

Liverpool and Manchester's populations are a third of our potential catchment area. They are popular and established by continued and established success, as are the usual top 6, many of which have multiple clubs in their area. Many of their supporters are not from their city or region, they have become global brands because of their continued success.

But let's remove even that from the equation.

Even if we only had the 12K capacity of Bournemouth, the sustainable revenue core income is not from STs or merch, it's from pure PL revenue, the former is important of course but is a side income. That is what they and others have achieved. And so can we but even bigger. The statistics, trends and data is all there to support it.

What this is really about is a realistic plan to ultimately achieve the above and more for the long term.

And as I've pointed out, it's entirely realistic and could be done tomorrow in a penstroke.

Obviously neither Brighton nor Bournemouth are hotbeds of football but that is not the point. Geographically they are not as isolated as Cardiff is and Brighton in particular is only 50 miles from London. Generally speaking I would imagine English players feel more at home living on the south coast than upping sticks and moving to
South Wales.

Even if we achieved a modicum of success in the PL, our geographical location would always be a hindrance in my view.

That's a point certainly to be considered and of course open to personal opinion and I respect yours. So let's take a look at it. I'm from this area but lived in London for 20 years in my 20s and 30s, the quality of life there is incomparable, especially if you're that age and with money, so that lifestyle is indeed important and an attraction to London based clubs. I wouldn't say quite the same for the other cities you mentioned though and I know them and others quite well but that's just a matter of opinion.

English players would indeed feel more at home living nearer their roots and families but most squads in the PL and CShip level are made up of English, non English and foreign players. And if they felt that Cardiff was the correct club at the appropriate point in their careers, location is somewhat irrelevant.

For example, Swansea's seven years in the PL proves this. They attracted quality players who chose the club simply as it was the right fit. And in terms of quality of life, which is certainly a consideration, Cardiff and its surrounding areas is better by far. And London is only a short hop away in the Lambo for a bling fix of course! Brizzle and Brum are near too for a schlep on days off. And of course, when we were actually competing and achieved PL, many of our squad were from all over, which further proves the point.

So I think attracting players based on our location would not be an issue for at least some of the reasons above and not a barrier to the target of sustained PL success.

To echo Forever Blue's and Worcester's points above and in the spirit of what I am fundamentally saying, I believe that we can become a PL club with long term sustainable success with a financially and operationally realistic plan of which I've detailed the fundamentals earlier in this thread. That is the most important thing overall as it drives everything else and is also the key to growing and sustaining our fan base for the long term.

I also believe the facts I've given to back up an expansion in our fan base to be realistic and true. We have perhaps the largest unique catchment area in the UK, 1.5M people for a one club capital city and it is entirely reasonable that we could capture at least 40,000 in total from that number, so only another 23,000 given we presently have circa 17,000 ST holders. We already know we can achieve 33,000 from PL football, so in reality it's actually creating only 7,000 brand new fans from an available pool of 1.5M people in the SE Wales area and of course it would also attract some people from outside of that area too.

Annis, I would back over the road in a heartbeat.
Progress they call it lol.
Back on topic, saying we had full stadiums whilst in PL proves the point that the game and fans are fickle, look at the meltdown on here lately.

Jules and I would , I would even come back way more if we were still at Ninian Park.

CCS is Soulless.

Yes our fans deserted way way to quick.

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I respectfully disagree.

1. We are a UK capital city with only one club.
2. We have a catchment area of 1.5M people, most with enough disposable income to afford our cheap tickets (Source Future Wales 2040 - WG blueprint).
3. Football is the most popular sport in Wales by a huge margin.
4. We have a significant number of potential fans who have always been into whatever big 6 is current who are only attracted to PL but with no link to City.
5. Our 2 outings in the PL prove we can more than fill a 33k stadium. There is a demographic that only want to see PL football.
6. The Red Wall success proves point 5, many only came back as we were successful.
7. Sustained PL football is the only thing that will realise the above potential.

And there is a realistic plan available to achieve all of this. And it could happen with a penstroke from VT and starting as of tomorrow. He stands a chance of getting a fair chunk of his money back, steps aside, eventually sells and sails off into the sunset with his honour intact.

It really is that simple, absolutely realistic business wise and can be done in a heartbeat.

Class post that however I disagree with a few things.

We are a capital city but of a small country and I don’t think the potential base is as big as we think.

Football isn’t the most popular by a large margin. Cases can be made for both and yes I realise it is internationals that make rugby popular but there’s a lot of rugby being played.

Not sure about 5. We filled out for the big teams who had their fans in the ground in our end.

Sadly FFP rules would curtail us getting to the level required I think unless our youth development improves significantly.

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I happen to agree with you. Not ever having been a hotbed of football makes it much more difficult to attract top rated players to the area. Regardless of how a wealthy owner would help our cause and notwithstanding Cardiff is a popular and well-regarded city still doesn't alter the fact that there are other clubs who will always trump us when it comes to location.
Think London, Manchester, Liverpool and the North East for instance and you get the gist.

Would you call Bournemouth and Brighton a hotbed of football yet they have achieved sustained PL success?

Our fan potential is far bigger - 1.5M within easy reach and well connected to a city that is an attractive destination. We have world class events 10 minutes away at the Principality Stadium that proves this. And PL football is a world class event that draws people in.

Liverpool and Manchester's populations are a third of our potential catchment area. They are popular and established by continued and established success, as are the usual top 6, many of which have multiple clubs in their area. Many of their supporters are not from their city or region, they have become global brands because of their continued success.

But let's remove even that from the equation.

Even if we only had the 12K capacity of Bournemouth, the sustainable revenue core income is not from STs or merch, it's from pure PL revenue, the former is important of course but is a side income. That is what they and others have achieved. And so can we but even bigger. The statistics, trends and data is all there to support it.

What this is really about is a realistic plan to ultimately achieve the above and more for the long term.

And as I've pointed out, it's entirely realistic and could be done tomorrow in a penstroke.

Paul what is the realistic plan? Being a bit dense I'm afraid

No doubt it involves a certain former owner who still deeply loves the club he took to the brink of extinction who now can't wait to spend millions of pounds of his own personal monies riding in on a white horse to save the club he holds deep in his heart having learned his lessons from his previous mistakes.

Oh OK I won't go there!!

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I respectfully disagree.

1. We are a UK capital city with only one club.
2. We have a catchment area of 1.5M people, most with enough disposable income to afford our cheap tickets (Source Future Wales 2040 - WG blueprint).
3. Football is the most popular sport in Wales by a huge margin.
4. We have a significant number of potential fans who have always been into whatever big 6 is current who are only attracted to PL but with no link to City.
5. Our 2 outings in the PL prove we can more than fill a 33k stadium. There is a demographic that only want to see PL football.
6. The Red Wall success proves point 5, many only came back as we were successful.
7. Sustained PL football is the only thing that will realise the above potential.

And there is a realistic plan available to achieve all of this. And it could happen with a penstroke from VT and starting as of tomorrow. He stands a chance of getting a fair chunk of his money back, steps aside, eventually sells and sails off into the sunset with his honour intact.

It really is that simple, absolutely realistic business wise and can be done in a heartbeat.

Cheers and thanks for your view. Here's what I think below in colour which just makes it a bit easier to address point by point.

Class post that however I disagree with a few things.

We are a capital city but of a small country and I don’t think the potential base is as big as we think.

(see my detailed reply and data breakdown in a post above).


Football isn’t the most popular by a large margin. Cases can be made for both and yes I realise it is internationals that make rugby popular but there’s a lot of rugby being played.

(If you check the current or previous historical data for registered players for the FAW and WRU, the FAW is significantly higher, proving football is a bigger sport than rugby as more people are playing it even down to the grass roots level, I don't have these figures to hand but they have historically been thia way for some time. The poor attendances since rugby changed to the regions is also revealing. The Mil Stad for internationals will always be full as it is now an event, many of those who go don't attend club rugby, they are there solely for the event).


Not sure about 5. We filled out for the big teams who had their fans in the ground in our end.

(We sold our capacity of 33,000 STs for both PL seasons and had a waiting list).


Sadly FFP rules would curtail us getting to the level required I think unless our youth development improves significantly.

FFP would of course be needed to be managed effectively, it is very important and entirely realistic, as demonstrated by clubs like Brighton and Bournemouth who have been efficiently operated.
Our academy output is very important in the long term but it is not a key component to achieve PL status in the first phase it is important however to sustain our long term position there. We would also become a "selling club" too which would also add to our sustainable revenue stream).

Bristol is a bigger city than cardiff and have never done a great deal apart from existing
granted they have 2 teams but it does seem the west country and south wales clubs have struggled its a shame we never went all out to stay in the prem when we where there again trying like we are now on a budget in the transfer window to stay in top flight.

We should be the Celtic of Wales with Premiership money!

What a club that’s facilitated child abuse on an industrial scale for half a century ? What a bizarre thing to aspire to.

No it's held back by it's geographical location Wales and the west country is traditionally footballs waste land the combined history of all the clubs in the area is poor.yes the jbs are just off the back of the best era in their history but they still have only ever spent 9 seasons in the top flight.im not saying it always has to be this way but 120 years into professional football in the area this is how it's been the best chance of growing a football club is the south east of England where most of the country's wealth is.

I respectfully disagree.

1. We are a UK capital city with only one club.
2. We have a catchment area of 1.5M people, most with enough disposable income to afford our cheap tickets (Source Future Wales 2040 - WG blueprint).
3. Football is the most popular sport in Wales by a huge margin.
4. We have a significant number of potential fans who have always been into whatever big 6 is current who are only attracted to PL but with no link to City.
5. Our 2 outings in the PL prove we can more than fill a 33k stadium. There is a demographic that only want to see PL football.
6. The Red Wall success proves point 5, many only came back as we were successful.
7. Sustained PL football is the only thing that will realise the above potential.

And there is a realistic plan available to achieve all of this. And it could happen with a penstroke from VT and starting as of tomorrow. He stands a chance of getting a fair chunk of his money back, steps aside, eventually sells and sails off into the sunset with his honour intact.

It really is that simple, absolutely realistic business wise and can be done in a heartbeat.

Cheers and thanks for your view. Here's what I think below in colour which just makes it a bit easier to address point by point.

Class post that however I disagree with a few things.

We are a capital city but of a small country and I don’t think the potential base is as big as we think.

(see my detailed reply and data breakdown in a post above).


Football isn’t the most popular by a large margin. Cases can be made for both and yes I realise it is internationals that make rugby popular but there’s a lot of rugby being played.

(If you check the current or previous historical data for registered players for the FAW and WRU, the FAW is significantly higher, proving football is a bigger sport than rugby as more people are playing it even down to the grass roots level, I don't have these figures to hand but they have historically been thia way for some time. The poor attendances since rugby changed to the regions is also revealing. The Mil Stad for internationals will always be full as it is now an event, many of those who go don't attend club rugby, they are there solely for the event).


Not sure about 5. We filled out for the big teams who had their fans in the ground in our end.

(We sold our capacity of 33,000 STs for both PL seasons and had a waiting list).


Sadly FFP rules would curtail us getting to the level required I think unless our youth development improves significantly.

FFP would of course be needed to be managed effectively, it is very important and entirely realistic, as demonstrated by clubs like Brighton and Bournemouth who have been efficiently operated.
Our academy output is very important in the long term but it is not a key component to achieve PL status in the first phase it is important however to sustain our long term position there. We would also become a "selling club" too which would also add to our sustainable revenue stream).

Averaged 31k and 27k for our premier seasons.

There were tickets available regularly for walk ups.