FAO Keith Morgan

Hello Keith,

In another thread you mentioned about "new" rules that effect FFP and only came out a few day before the window closed.

Do you have any information about them or even better a link I can refer to? It would be good for all of us interested in the subject to know how this effects us.

Cheers,
Ian

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

I am interested to see this link? as I read on here Keith said that was why the board could not spend to much in the January transfers?

Hello Keith,

In another thread you mentioned about "new" rules that effect FFP and only came out a few day before the window closed.

Do you have any information about them or even better a link I can refer to? It would be good for all of us interested in the subject to know how this effects us.

Cheers,
Ian

Might be the net equity rule that has just come into being through Uefa, read about this earlier in the season that a club can only spend about 90% of turnover on wages etc next year, and then reduces to 70% from the 2026/27 season, with the rumoured high wage players on our books this could have a big effect on us and other clubs.

But sure that Keith will explain it better than me as he usually is quite good at explaining things.

Hello Keith,

In another thread you mentioned about "new" rules that effect FFP and only came out a few day before the window closed.

Do you have any information about them or even better a link I can refer to? It would be good for all of us interested in the subject to know how this effects us.

Cheers,
Ian

Might be the net equity rule that has just come into being through Uefa, read about this earlier in the season that a club can only spend about 90% of turnover on wages etc next year, and then reduces to 70% from the 2026/27 season, with the rumoured high wage players on our books this could have a big effect on us and other clubs.

But sure that Keith will explain it better than me as he usually is quite good at explaining things.

Yes but these are "new" rules. What you describe above are historic.

What I want is exactly what these new rules are and where possible a link to them.

Hello Keith,

In another thread you mentioned about "new" rules that effect FFP and only came out a few day before the window closed.

Do you have any information about them or even better a link I can refer to? It would be good for all of us interested in the subject to know how this effects us.

Cheers,
Ian

Might be the net equity rule that has just come into being through Uefa, read about this earlier in the season that a club can only spend about 90% of turnover on wages etc next year, and then reduces to 70% from the 2026/27 season, with the rumoured high wage players on our books this could have a big effect on us and other clubs.

But sure that Keith will explain it better than me as he usually is quite good at explaining things.

Yes but these are "new" rules. What you describe above are historic.

What I want is exactly what these new rules are and where possible a link to them.

Ian,
I would like to see the link to the New Rules that Keith said apparently came in a few days before the Transfer Deadline?

Keith Link?

Hello Keith,

In another thread you mentioned about "new" rules that effect FFP and only came out a few day before the window closed.

Do you have any information about them or even better a link I can refer to? It would be good for all of us interested in the subject to know how this effects us.

Cheers,
Ian

Ian

I am not ignoring you and have already drafted a full reply but I am obliged to notify Trust members first with such updates before message board posts so please bear with me for a bit.
My note to Trust members has been sent to the Trust Secretary and the director who is our press officer and hopefully will go out to members later today via email

Keith

Hello Keith,

In another thread you mentioned about "new" rules that effect FFP and only came out a few day before the window closed.

Do you have any information about them or even better a link I can refer to? It would be good for all of us interested in the subject to know how this effects us.

Cheers,
Ian

Ian

I am not ignoring you and have already drafted a full reply but I am obliged to notify Trust members first with such updates before message board posts so please bear with me for a bit.
My note to Trust members has been sent to the Trust Secretary and the director who is our press officer and hopefully will go out to members later today via email

Keith

Mate, just put the link on here as you’ve put it out to protect the board from posters on here asking questions, so you’ve said it link please?
I can not find any new rules, so please you show us the link? this has nothing to do with the trust.

Hello Keith,

In another thread you mentioned about "new" rules that effect FFP and only came out a few day before the window closed.

Do you have any information about them or even better a link I can refer to? It would be good for all of us interested in the subject to know how this effects us.

Cheers,
Ian

Might be the net equity rule that has just come into being through Uefa, read about this earlier in the season that a club can only spend about 90% of turnover on wages etc next year, and then reduces to 70% from the 2026/27 season, with the rumoured high wage players on our books this could have a big effect on us and other clubs.

But sure that Keith will explain it better than me as he usually is quite good at explaining things.

Yes but these are "new" rules. What you describe above are historic.

What I want is exactly what these new rules are and where possible a link to them.

That's fair enough but mentioned the above because although the rules were announced last year I believe they only came into effect from February 1st 2024 in the efl, although the club should have known about the rules, well before the end of the transfer window.

I am interested to see this link? as I read on here Keith said that was why the board could not spend to much in the January transfers?

The only "link" available is to my report on the application of the rules and procedures in the January transfer window. As I say that report will be out with Trust members shortly after which I can release my more comprehensive response to Ian`s question.

I have an obligation to report to Trust members but no such obligation to report on message boards and other social media. I was just trying to be helpful and informative.

Hello Keith,

In another thread you mentioned about "new" rules that effect FFP and only came out a few day before the window closed.

Do you have any information about them or even better a link I can refer to? It would be good for all of us interested in the subject to know how this effects us.

Cheers,
Ian

Might be the net equity rule that has just come into being through Uefa, read about this earlier in the season that a club can only spend about 90% of turnover on wages etc next year, and then reduces to 70% from the 2026/27 season, with the rumoured high wage players on our books this could have a big effect on us and other clubs.

But sure that Keith will explain it better than me as he usually is quite good at explaining things.

Yes but these are "new" rules. What you describe above are historic.

What I want is exactly what these new rules are and where possible a link to them.

That's fair enough but mentioned the above because although the rules were announced last year I believe they only came into effect from February 1st 2024 in the efl, although the club should have known about the rules, well before the end of the transfer window.

Yep agreed.

Seems like smoke and mirrors to me if I'm right on what I'm seeing the rules didn't come in untill February 2024 so what affect did it have on this window ? What gets me is everytime things go right the board say its ffp or its the efl it's never we don't want to spend money or we messed up. What this trust member seems to be saying is I need more info from the board to spread the more bs that's always being spread embarrassment the sooner this board sells up and goes the better

I don’t care about another baffling post giving explanations on Dalmans behalf.


I want to see in B/W a link to what your saying below Keith that happened a few days before.
The New Rules?


Keith Morgan wrote this week:

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Seems like smoke and mirrors to me if I'm right on what I'm seeing the rules didn't come in untill February 2024 so what affect did it have on this window ? What gets me is everytime things go right the board say its ffp or its the efl it's never we don't want to spend money or we messed up. What this trust member seems to be saying is I need more info from the board to spread the more bs that's always being spread embarrassment the sooner this board sells up and goes the better

Exactly Kyle,

Now I want to see a link to these New Rules?

I don’t care about another baffling post giving explanations on Dalmans behalf.


I want to see in B/W a link to what your saying below Keith that happened a few days before.
The New Rules?


Keith Morgan wrote this week:

It's excuses everywhere I've lost all faith in the club from the ground up. We must be the only club where the fans are constant left in the lurch and zero communication unless its the bs spread to try shut people up

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

I don’t care about another baffling post giving explanations on Dalmans behalf.


I want to see in B/W a link to what your saying below Keith that happened a few days before.
The New Rules?


Keith Morgan wrote this week:

It's excuses everywhere I've lost all faith in the club from the ground up. We must be the only club where the fans are constant left in the lurch and zero communication unless its the bs spread to try shut people up

Kyle,

The Regime have a couple of mouth pieces to spread the bullshit.

Myself, Dibs and a few others got stopped from going to the meetings because if you don’t toe the line, they don’t want you there.
To be fair to Keith he finally spoke out a year ago and that’s was him on the list, but then he’s made up with them and all I ever see is Keith now backing the The Regime.

On and of the field we have now been in dire straights for years and all we ever here is we are planning for the future
We have had cheap / inexperienced managers one after another.
Promise of debt to be totally cleared that was 15 yrs ago.
Court case after court case.
And years of dire football.

All we want to see is a simple link to Keith’s latest support of the Regime?

I don’t care about another baffling post giving explanations on Dalmans behalf.

The voices are getting louder the people has had enough the clock is ticking for this board the supporters of this awfull board are running thin and the sooner they leave the better

I want to see in B/W a link to what your saying below Keith that happened a few days before.
The New Rules?


Keith Morgan wrote this week:

It's excuses everywhere I've lost all faith in the club from the ground up. We must be the only club where the fans are constant left in the lurch and zero communication unless its the bs spread to try shut people up

Kyle,

The Regime have a couple of mouth pieces to spread the bullshit.

Myself, Dibs and a few others got stopped from going to the meetings because if you don’t toe the line, they don’t want you there.
To be fair to Keith he finally spoke out a year ago and that’s was him on the list, but then he’s made up with them and all I ever see is Keith now backing the The Regime.

On and of the field we have now been in dire straights for years and all we ever here is we are planning for the future
We have had cheap / inexperienced managers one after another.
Promise of debt to be totally cleared that was 15 yrs ago.
Court case after court case.
And years of dire football.

All we want to see is a simple link to Keith’s latest support of the Regime?

A simple link?

Keith you did not need the permission of your fellow mates to put your post out, so surely you don’t mean their permission now if there is such a link??

Seems like smoke and mirrors to me if I'm right on what I'm seeing the rules didn't come in untill February 2024 so what affect did it have on this window ? What gets me is everytime things go right the board say its ffp or its the efl it's never we don't want to spend money or we messed up. What this trust member seems to be saying is I need more info from the board to spread the more bs that's always being spread embarrassment the sooner this board sells up and goes the better

Exactly Kyle,

Now I want to see a link to these New Rules?

ANNIS
a lot of posters on here have stated that we could not spend in transfer window due to ffp rules on what grounds did they come to this decision ?

And also ticking off "other posters" for not understanding the rules or been been a bit slow on the up take of the rules such as myself
I got told numerous times this was the situation and you do't understand MONTY.

Seems like smoke and mirrors to me if I'm right on what I'm seeing the rules didn't come in untill February 2024 so what affect did it have on this window ? What gets me is everytime things go right the board say its ffp or its the efl it's never we don't want to spend money or we messed up. What this trust member seems to be saying is I need more info from the board to spread the more bs that's always being spread embarrassment the sooner this board sells up and goes the better

Exactly Kyle,

Now I want to see a link to these New Rules?

ANNIS
a lot of posters on here have stated that we could not spend in transfer window due to ffp rules on what grounds did they come to this decision ?

And also ticking off "other posters" for not understanding the rules or been been a bit slow on the up take of the rules such as myself
I got told numerous times this was the situation and you do't understand MONTY.

Monty,


I will go through those rules another day as I have learnt a lot about them on how a club can get around them.

NO this a apparently a New Rule that was told to the board 3 days before the end of Transfer Window, that Keith said to Ian on here, I have spent days looking for it???

Seems like smoke and mirrors to me if I'm right on what I'm seeing the rules didn't come in untill February 2024 so what affect did it have on this window ? What gets me is everytime things go right the board say its ffp or its the efl it's never we don't want to spend money or we messed up. What this trust member seems to be saying is I need more info from the board to spread the more bs that's always being spread embarrassment the sooner this board sells up and goes the better

Exactly Kyle,

Now I want to see a link to these New Rules?

ANNIS
a lot of posters on here have stated that we could not spend in transfer window due to ffp rules on what grounds did they come to this decision ?

And also ticking off "other posters" for not understanding the rules or been been a bit slow on the up take of the rules such as myself
I got told numerous times this was the situation and you do't understand MONTY.

Monty,


I will go through those rules another day as I have learnt a lot about them on how a club can get around them.

NO this a apparently a New Rule that was told to the board 3 days before the end of Transfer Window, that Keith said to Ian on here, I have spent days looking for it???

ANNIS

will wait to read in layman's terms

and i will crack on
back to work up and over this roof.

Hello Keith,

In another thread you mentioned about "new" rules that effect FFP and only came out a few day before the window closed.

Do you have any information about them or even better a link I can refer to? It would be good for all of us interested in the subject to know how this effects us.

Cheers,
Ian

Ian, it is a bit complex but I will try and summarise the position as best I can .

Firstly , recent changes have been brought about largely as a result of the interpretation and application of the rules as much as some changes in the rules themselves.

The basic rules

These remain the same. Premier League and Championship clubs are monitored on their reported profits and losses while League 1 and League 2 clubs are monitored on their levels of spending
EPL and EFL clubs are allowed to lose just £5m a season on average over a rolling three year period with no checks or queries on their finances (and yes i do mean just £5m). However if the club owners produce cash and/or guarantees for the difference then the EPL limit can increase to £35m a year and the EFL one to £13m a year. In CCFC`s case this difference has been made up in recent years by Vincent Tan putting in cash by issuing himself new shares and paying for them (see audited accounts and Companies House records). In calculating the above losses, an allowance is made for investment in Academies, youth development, training ground facilities and a few other costs. A couple of seasons ago a further one off allowance was made to counter the impact of the Covid pandemic.

Application and monitoring

In March 2022 the EFL set up a separate independent body made up of qualified accountants (sorry )to monitor and enforce the financial regulations. It is called the Club Financial Reporting Unit. It is they who decide whether a club is in breach, or in danger of being in breach, of the rules and whether the club is therefore authorised or prevented from signing players in a transfer window.
The review of finances by the CFRU is no longer just on the basis of annual audited accounts and annual budgets going forward but is now far more detailed, thorough and frequent. A couple of club finance directors I have spoken to say it is now moving towards almost a "real time" review as a means of having an "early warning" system in place.
There was also a change in June 2023 when a new rule was introduced saying that clubs must inform the EFL even if they are just a few days late in paying HMRC debts. It is known as a Default Event and can cause an immediate transfer embargo.

The impact of the above

I have seen criticism , largely on this board but also elsewhere, that our club left it very late in getting signings completed in the January transfer window and therefore missed out on better players to bring in. The reason for this was that the CFRU didn`t approve the club`s financial submissions until a few days before the transfer deadline. Therefore, deals that were close to completion, couldn`t be finalised in time and the targets either went elsewhere or became no affordable within the rules.
We are far from alone in the Championship in doing last minute deals because of the above monitoring. I don`t have the list in front of me at the moment but when I looked there were more Championship club transfers in the last two days of the window than in the whole of the rest of the month of the window.

Hello Keith,

In another thread you mentioned about "new" rules that effect FFP and only came out a few day before the window closed.

Do you have any information about them or even better a link I can refer to? It would be good for all of us interested in the subject to know how this effects us.

Cheers,
Ian

My summary post now submitted , with apologies for the slight delay while I go a (shorter) version out to Trust members.

Seems like smoke and mirrors to me if I'm right on what I'm seeing the rules didn't come in untill February 2024 so what affect did it have on this window ? What gets me is everytime things go right the board say its ffp or its the efl it's never we don't want to spend money or we messed up. What this trust member seems to be saying is I need more info from the board to spread the more bs that's always being spread embarrassment the sooner this board sells up and goes the better

Exactly Kyle,

Now I want to see a link to these New Rules?

Thanks for attaching what i actually said Annis. As is clear from this I didn`t say about new rules just about their new application by the EFL at the last minute. This is explained in my response to Ian`s question which I have now posted on here.

Link please and date?

Hello Keith,

In another thread you mentioned about "new" rules that effect FFP and only came out a few day before the window closed.

Do you have any information about them or even better a link I can refer to? It would be good for all of us interested in the subject to know how this effects us.

Cheers,
Ian

Ian

I am not ignoring you and have already drafted a full reply but I am obliged to notify Trust members first with such updates before message board posts so please bear with me for a bit.
My note to Trust members has been sent to the Trust Secretary and the director who is our press officer and hopefully will go out to members later today via email

Keith

Mate, just put the link on here as you’ve put it out to protect the board from posters on here asking questions, so you’ve said it link please?
I can not find any new rules, so please you show us the link? this has nothing to do with the trust.

Please read what I have just responded to Ian and also the exact words of mine which Annis posted elsewhere in this thread (which he doesn`t appear to have understood).

No -one is protecting the club board from posters on here , it is just setting out facts so that the position is not misunderstood or misinterpreted.
I also don`t think you understood what I posted about the Trust and the need to notify its members with updates before posting those notes on message boards.

Seems like smoke and mirrors to me if I'm right on what I'm seeing the rules didn't come in untill February 2024 so what affect did it have on this window ? What gets me is everytime things go right the board say its ffp or its the efl it's never we don't want to spend money or we messed up. What this trust member seems to be saying is I need more info from the board to spread the more bs that's always being spread embarrassment the sooner this board sells up and goes the better

Kyle, you seem to be struggling with this so I will try and explain in simple terms.
I presume you are referring to me as "this trust member!. If so, i certainly don`t need more information from the club board or in any way need their permission to post anything - they have no say whatsoever in my personal opinions which are based entirely on my professional experience of football finance matters and my investigation of the various rules and regulations on the public record.

Keith

Link please and date?

Not your baffling own words and version to protect Dalman and Co?

I don’t read anything anymore that you put out as it’s all for Dalman and Co

I just want it in b/w with a link which EFL would of like it out??


The one you said the club was notified 3 days

I don’t care about another baffling post giving explanations on Dalmans behalf.


I want to see in B/W a link to what your saying below Keith that happened a few days before.
The New Rules?


Keith Morgan wrote this week:

It's excuses everywhere I've lost all faith in the club from the ground up. We must be the only club where the fans are constant left in the lurch and zero communication unless its the bs spread to try shut people up

Kyle,

The Regime have a couple of mouth pieces to spread the bullshit.

Myself, Dibs and a few others got stopped from going to the meetings because if you don’t toe the line, they don’t want you there.
To be fair to Keith he finally spoke out a year ago and that’s was him on the list, but then he’s made up with them and all I ever see is Keith now backing the The Regime.

On and of the field we have now been in dire straights for years and all we ever here is we are planning for the future
We have had cheap / inexperienced managers one after another.
Promise of debt to be totally cleared that was 15 yrs ago.
Court case after court case.
And years of dire football.

All we want to see is a simple link to Keith’s latest support of the Regime?

Annis

I wasn`t aware of any ban on fans attending recent meetings with the club but then I don`t draw up the invite list. You are almost certainly not invited as you live in Majorca so would be a bit impractical. If it helps and you are in Cardiff when the next meeting is held (they are always at short notice) let me know and I will certainly request/press that you get an invite. I have been at a couple of meetings where Dibs was present and he wasn`t stopped from asking questions. Who told him that he couldn`t attend? Most meetings have had at least a few independent travel group representatives present and they certainly haven`t been shy to ask awkward questions of the board. The same applies to the most recent informal meeting held with the newly formed FAB - plenty of pressing questions asked at that as there will be going forward.

My posts are not " support of the regime", they are totally independent of the club as I have been throughout my 62 years as a supporter and particularly since my involvement in the Trust since it started about 15 tears ago, If I disagree with the club I will say so (as I often have). If I don`t agree I will say so just as readily.
Where I get frustrated with this board is where people won`t, don`t or can`t read things properly before reacting. This is why I am seriously giving consideration to ceasing to post on here again in the future - it can be a waste of time and effort.

A couple of the moderators on here (Chris and Roger) try and give a balanced view of things. I am unsure with Kyle as his posts suggest he is very young and they are sometimes quite difficult to read.

Hello Keith,

In another thread you mentioned about "new" rules that effect FFP and only came out a few day before the window closed.

Do you have any information about them or even better a link I can refer to? It would be good for all of us interested in the subject to know how this effects us.

Cheers,
Ian

Ian, it is a bit complex but I will try and summarise the position as best I can .

Firstly , recent changes have been brought about largely as a result of the interpretation and application of the rules as much as some changes in the rules themselves.

The basic rules

These remain the same. Premier League and Championship clubs are monitored on their reported profits and losses while League 1 and League 2 clubs are monitored on their levels of spending
EPL and EFL clubs are allowed to lose just £5m a season on average over a rolling three year period with no checks or queries on their finances (and yes i do mean just £5m). However if the club owners produce cash and/or guarantees for the difference then the EPL limit can increase to £35m a year and the EFL one to £13m a year. In CCFC`s case this difference has been made up in recent years by Vincent Tan putting in cash by issuing himself new shares and paying for them (see audited accounts and Companies House records). In calculating the above losses, an allowance is made for investment in Academies, youth development, training ground facilities and a few other costs. A couple of seasons ago a further one off allowance was made to counter the impact of the Covid pandemic.

Application and monitoring

In March 2022 the EFL set up a separate independent body made up of qualified accountants (sorry )to monitor and enforce the financial regulations. It is called the Club Financial Reporting Unit. It is they who decide whether a club is in breach, or in danger of being in breach, of the rules and whether the club is therefore authorised or prevented from signing players in a transfer window.
The review of finances by the CFRU is no longer just on the basis of annual audited accounts and annual budgets going forward but is now far more detailed, thorough and frequent. A couple of club finance directors I have spoken to say it is now moving towards almost a "real time" review as a means of having an "early warning" system in place.
There was also a change in June 2023 when a new rule was introduced saying that clubs must inform the EFL even if they are just a few days late in paying HMRC debts. It is known as a Default Event and can cause an immediate transfer embargo.

The impact of the above

I have seen criticism , largely on this board but also elsewhere, that our club left it very late in getting signings completed in the January transfer window and therefore missed out on better players to bring in. The reason for this was that the CFRU didn`t approve the club`s financial submissions until a few days before the transfer deadline. Therefore, deals that were close to completion, couldn`t be finalised in time and the targets either went elsewhere or became no affordable within the rules.
We are far from alone in the Championship in doing last minute deals because of the above monitoring. I don`t have the list in front of me at the moment but when I looked there were more Championship club transfers in the last two days of the window than in the whole of the rest of the month of the window.

I think I have the jist of this.

In March 2022 the EFL set up a separate independent body made up of qualified accountants (sorry )to monitor and enforce the financial regulations. It is called the Club Financial Reporting Unit. It is they who decide whether a club is in breach, or in danger of being in breach, of the rules and whether the club is therefore authorised or prevented from signing players in a transfer window.

Surely the club should have had this sorted before the window opened?

I don’t care about another baffling post giving explanations on Dalmans behalf.


I want to see in B/W a link to what your saying below Keith that happened a few days before.
The New Rules?


Keith Morgan wrote this week:

It's excuses everywhere I've lost all faith in the club from the ground up. We must be the only club where the fans are constant left in the lurch and zero communication unless its the bs spread to try shut people up

Kyle,

The Regime have a couple of mouth pieces to spread the bullshit.

Myself, Dibs and a few others got stopped from going to the meetings because if you don’t toe the line, they don’t want you there.
To be fair to Keith he finally spoke out a year ago and that’s was him on the list, but then he’s made up with them and all I ever see is Keith now backing the The Regime.

On and of the field we have now been in dire straights for years and all we ever here is we are planning for the future
We have had cheap / inexperienced managers one after another.
Promise of debt to be totally cleared that was 15 yrs ago.
Court case after court case.
And years of dire football.

All we want to see is a simple link to Keith’s latest support of the Regime?

Annis

I wasn`t aware of any ban on fans attending recent meetings with the club but then I don`t draw up the invite list. You are almost certainly not invited as you live in Majorca so would be a bit impractical. If it helps and you are in Cardiff when the next meeting is held (they are always at short notice) let me know and I will certainly request/press that you get an invite. I have been at a couple of meetings where Dibs was present and he wasn`t stopped from asking questions. Who told him that he couldn`t attend? Most meetings have had at least a few independent travel group representatives present and they certainly haven`t been shy to ask awkward questions of the board. The same applies to the most recent informal meeting held with the newly formed FAB - plenty of pressing questions asked at that as there will be going forward.

My posts are not " support of the regime", they are totally independent of the club as I have been throughout my 62 years as a supporter and particularly since my involvement in the Trust since it started about 15 tears ago, If I disagree with the club I will say so (as I often have). If I don`t agree I will say so just as readily.
Where I get frustrated with this board is where people won`t, don`t or can`t read things properly before reacting. This is why I am seriously giving consideration to ceasing to post on here again in the future - it can be a waste of time and effort.

A couple of the moderators on here (Chris and Roger) try and give a balanced view of things. I am unsure with Kyle as his posts suggest he is very young and they are sometimes quite difficult to read.

You make me laugh Keith,

First I have a season ticket for 52 Consecutive seasons

And My Ban as you call it lol was a year before I moved to Mallorca and was not allowed anymore as you know I am straight to the point and don’t toe the line.

But link please as your changing the subject as usual


The link to what the club was told that you said happened 3 days before PLEASE ?