STICK TOGETHER,DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH

It cracks me up when people say there will be more divides if we have another supporters group, another messgae board etc.
What a load of TOSH, we will never sing from the same hymn sheet.

Cardiff fans as with other clubs come from all walks of life, some like getting drunk and going to games, others can't undertsand it and slag them off, some like standing and are treated like criminals,some think that unless you've been going for 20 years your not a real fan,and heaven help you if you have a second team you have a liking for, and if you only go now and then your a plastic, etc.etc.

It's all about tolerance, and some people are sadly lacking it, personally I like all the different walks of life attracted to football,I like what it means in so many different ways to all of us.Why do some people expect us all to want the same things, and all to do the same things.
If people want to march, then let them, if they want to wear Riverside scarves then let them, My God are they harming anyone, isn't life about choices, you make your choice and live with the outcome, leave people make their own minds up.
Seeing people carrying clecks between message boards, Jonny said this and Bob said that, does anyone really expect us all to agree on anything, let alone agree on evrything.

Listen, if this message board attracts the numbers it does, then it's doing it for a reason and to a lot of people it's obviously what they want and are happy to use it, people criticising this board or others isn't going to change people's mind set, just get on with it, tolerate one another. If there is no demand for this board it will pass into oblivion,if other people want to set up another ten boards, then set them up, what's the problem with that. If you don't like the tone, or theme on these boards "THEN DON'T f*cking GO ON THEM" stick to the ones you like, and let other people get on with their lives.

Same goes for any supporters groups or clubs that want to set up, so what if there's twelve or twenty, we have an Official supporters club, which in my opinion is first class, we have a newly formed Trust which is in it's infancy and learning as it goes along, if you don't agree with eother groups running you either join them and make changes from within, or leave them run themselves, they don't claim to represent all Cardiff fans, that would be imposible,they only represent their members.

I feel strongly that we need a Trust, but personally I think they are taking the wrong direction and missed an opportunity by not supporting or even organising the march, just my opinion and If I was that bothered about the direction the trust was taking and wanted it to take a different one, then I'd get involved, but in truth I don't feel that strongly enough to want to do that, so until I do, I will just have eto accept what they do and leave them to it.

Now to have credibility they must have a certain level of members and this I feel is the crux of the matter.If either group are failing in their mission or direction then either the members pull it back in line or leave the group.

If other groups set up and take a different direction that appeals to more fans then possibly they will be given more credence, until such times let's all just live together and tolerate one another.

Well said Gwyn, thats the best post I've read on the subject

well said that man !!!!

Gwyn.

There's nothing more to say!!

Well said

if we descend to the situation where by one supporters association or trust is trying to outdo the other supporters association or trust then we are going to look like utter idiots

a laughing stock

and in my opinion , unless we try and make sure we dont overlap , thats exactly what will happen


it will be pathetic and childish

if we descend to the situation where by one supporters association or trust is trying to outdo the other supporters association or trust then we are going to look like utter idiots

a laughing stock

and in my opinion , unless we try and make sure we dont overlap , thats exactly what will happen


it will be pathetic and childish

The Trust has lost credability in the eyes of many because we have now experienced its working model and it wasn't quite what we signed up for

Therefore we are looking around for something different. If you think that's pathetic and childish then so be it.

tony I think that the SITUATION will be pathetic and childish if we have two supporter groups trying to out do each other

thats what I inferring

certainly not that any new supporters group would be pathetic and childish

I have no idea until its set up , although I think what we have should be chamged , if its seen to be failing

I hope that makes my position clear

regards

It cracks me up when people say there will be more divides if we have another supporters group, another messgae board etc.
What a load of TOSH, we will never sing from the same hymn sheet.

Cardiff fans as with other clubs come from all walks of life, some like getting drunk and going to games, others can't undertsand it and slag them off, some like standing and are treated like criminals,some think that unless you've been going for 20 years your not a real fan,and heaven help you if you have a second team you have a liking for, and if you only go now and then your a plastic, etc.etc.

It's all about tolerance, and some people are sadly lacking it, personally I like all the different walks of life attracted to football,I like what it means in so many different ways to all of us.Why do some people expect us all to want the same things, and all to do the same things.
If people want to march, then let them, if they want to wear Riverside scarves then let them, My God are they harming anyone, isn't life about choices, you make your choice and live with the outcome, leave people make their own minds up.
Seeing people carrying clecks between message boards, Jonny said this and Bob said that, does anyone really expect us all to agree on anything, let alone agree on evrything.

Listen, if this message board attracts the numbers it does, then it's doing it for a reason and to a lot of people it's obviously what they want and are happy to use it, people criticising this board or others isn't going to change people's mind set, just get on with it, tolerate one another. If there is no demand for this board it will pass into oblivion,if other people want to set up another ten boards, then set them up, what's the problem with that. If you don't like the tone, or theme on these boards "THEN DON'T f*cking GO ON THEM" stick to the ones you like, and let other people get on with their lives.

Same goes for any supporters groups or clubs that want to set up, so what if there's twelve or twenty, we have an Official supporters club, which in my opinion is first class, we have a newly formed Trust which is in it's infancy and learning as it goes along, if you don't agree with eother groups running you either join them and make changes from within, or leave them run themselves, they don't claim to represent all Cardiff fans, that would be imposible,they only represent their members.

I feel strongly that we need a Trust, but personally I think they are taking the wrong direction and missed an opportunity by not supporting or even organising the march, just my opinion and If I was that bothered about the direction the trust was taking and wanted it to take a different one, then I'd get involved, but in truth I don't feel that strongly enough to want to do that, so until I do, I will just have eto accept what they do and leave them to it.

Now to have credibility they must have a certain level of members and this I feel is the crux of the matter.If either group are failing in their mission or direction then either the members pull it back in line or leave the group.

If other groups set up and take a different direction that appeals to more fans then possibly they will be given more credence, until such times let's all just live together and tolerate one another.

WHO BLOODY RAY - This is what i have said all along - just with less words and a little more bluntness lol

THANKS

I am a member of the Trust along with two others in my house, wife and son. I hoped the Trust would attract huge numbers, but as Annis keeps asking how many households have joint membership, it could be as few as 300 and if that is the case then it is disappointing and perhaps the Trust should ask themselves are they taking the right direction, do they need to change if they want to attract more members, or are they happy to carry on as they are.

Don't want to disparage what the Trust do, but I strongly believe they started off badly with the wrong targets and aims, but that's just my opinion, but a lot of people were put off by what they seen.There needs to be structure and order and democracy, but it appeaared so Pc and business like with Mission Statements and targetted audience, core structures, sub groups, steering commmittees eetc etc. A lot of us whilst recognising the needs for some of the above, most of us obviously haven't bee stimulated enough to join or take an active part.

Perhaps a new group may not want official recognition, they may not feel the need to be part of supporters direct or meet the Council etc.Perhaps they see themselves more as an action group who simply meet and discuss issues that are closer to their hearts than statues and and a fairer representation drives for more support from some minority groups etc.

Intrinsically, most of us are quite selfish by nature and are more concerned about things such as singing areas, bubble matches, restrictions, red tape for red tapes sake, jobs worth stewarding and petty rules,can't get back in at half time if you spend longer than ten minutes outside etc. Some of these items seem petty to others, but to many it's what concerns them.

let nature take it's course.

tony I think that the SITUATION will be pathetic and childish if we have two supporter groups trying to out do each other

thats what I inferring

certainly not that any new supporters group would be pathetic and childish

I have no idea until its set up , although I think what we have should be chamged , if its seen to be failing

I hope that makes my position clear

regards

If the sole intention of the new organisation is to rival the Trust then for once we would be in agreement. But the point I tried to make previously is the Trust model has been identified as a pressure group that rely on lobbying rather than direct action.

So even if we change those on the Trust Board it would make no difference because the 'model' will stay the same.

From my understanding the aspirations of the new organisation is to be more direct. Therefore the Trust can continue with its lobbying, whilst ‘Supporters Direct’ (for the want of a name) would organise marches, boycotts or visible descent.

In such circumstances neither group would be in competition with each other, just taking different routes to the same end.

if we descend to the situation where by one supporters association or trust is trying to outdo the other supporters association or trust then we are going to look like utter idiots

a laughing stock

and in my opinion , unless we try and make sure we dont overlap , thats exactly what will happen


it will be pathetic and childish

The Trust has lost credability in the eyes of many because we have now experienced its working model and it wasn't quite what we signed up for

Therefore we are looking around for something different. If you think that's pathetic and childish then so be it.

Tony.

Sludge said that having two organisations which overlapped or where eahc tried to outdo the other.Not that starting a new one was

And I still can see for the life of me why people, dont' join the trust and try bto change it.

After all you may set up this new organisation and then find that the working model for that isn't what you want.

What will you do then start another one??


Elwood

tony I think that the SITUATION will be pathetic and childish if we have two supporter groups trying to out do each other

thats what I inferring

certainly not that any new supporters group would be pathetic and childish

I have no idea until its set up , although I think what we have should be chamged , if its seen to be failing

I hope that makes my position clear

regards

If the sole intention of the new organisation is to rival the Trust then for once we would be in agreement. But the point I tried to make previously is the Trust model has been identified as a pressure group that rely on lobbying rather than direct action.

So even if we change those on the Trust Board it would make no difference because the 'model' will stay the same.

From my understanding the aspirations of the new organisation is to be more direct. Therefore the Trust can continue with its lobbying, whilst ‘Supporters Direct’ (for the want of a name) would organise marches, boycotts or visible descent.

In such circumstances neither group would be in competition with each other, just taking different routes to the same end.

we have agreed on many things tony

and I also agree on your slanton any new action group , if thats the way it forms

I am a member of the Trust along with two others in my house, wife and son. I hoped the Trust would attract huge numbers, but as Annis keeps asking how many households have joint membership, it could be as few as 300 and if that is the case then it is disappointing and perhaps the Trust should ask themselves are they taking the right direction, do they need to change if they want to attract more members, or are they happy to carry on as they are.

Don't want to disparage what the Trust do, but I strongly believe they started off badly with the wrong targets and aims, but that's just my opinion, but a lot of people were put off by what they seen.There needs to be structure and order and democracy, but it appeaared so Pc and business like with Mission Statements and targetted audience, core structures, sub groups, steering commmittees eetc etc. A lot of us whilst recognising the needs for some of the above, most of us obviously haven't bee stimulated enough to join or take an active part.

Perhaps a new group may not want official recognition, they may not feel the need to be part of supporters direct or meet the Council etc.Perhaps they see themselves more as an action group who simply meet and discuss issues that are closer to their hearts than statues and and a fairer representation drives for more support from some minority groups etc.

Intrinsically, most of us are quite selfish by nature and are more concerned about things such as singing areas, bubble matches, restrictions, red tape for red tapes sake, jobs worth stewarding and petty rules,can't get back in at half time if you spend longer than ten minutes outside etc. Some of these items seem petty to others, but to many it's what concerns them.

let nature take it's course.

gwyn , need to pull you up a few points here


there are 950 members , not as few as 300 as you suggest


and 700 different households

and again , I am going to have to take issue with the suggestion , ,that the community group was concerned with getting more ethnic minority fans


we had an extensive survey that asked people of all backgrounds from around canton , riverside , grangetown abiout cardiff city , what , if anything it meant to them

we had lots of different people of many backgrounds at the community event and were widely praised for the work we did to foster better links with the local community around the stadium

if we descend to the situation where by one supporters association or trust is trying to outdo the other supporters association or trust then we are going to look like utter idiots

a laughing stock

and in my opinion , unless we try and make sure we dont overlap , thats exactly what will happen


it will be pathetic and childish

The Trust has lost credability in the eyes of many because we have now experienced its working model and it wasn't quite what we signed up for

Therefore we are looking around for something different. If you think that's pathetic and childish then so be it.

Tony.

Sludge said that having two organisations which overlapped or where eahc tried to outdo the other.Not that starting a new one was

And I still can see for the life of me why people, dont' join the trust and try bto change it.

After all you may set up this new organisation and then find that the working model for that isn't what you want.

What will you do then start another one??


Elwood

that is indeed what I was saying

It cracks me up when people say there will be more divides if we have another supporters group, another messgae board etc.
What a load of TOSH, we will never sing from the same hymn sheet.

Cardiff fans as with other clubs come from all walks of life, some like getting drunk and going to games, others can't undertsand it and slag them off, some like standing and are treated like criminals,some think that unless you've been going for 20 years your not a real fan,and heaven help you if you have a second team you have a liking for, and if you only go now and then your a plastic, etc.etc.

It's all about tolerance, and some people are sadly lacking it, personally I like all the different walks of life attracted to football,I like what it means in so many different ways to all of us.Why do some people expect us all to want the same things, and all to do the same things.
If people want to march, then let them, if they want to wear Riverside scarves then let them, My God are they harming anyone, isn't life about choices, you make your choice and live with the outcome, leave people make their own minds up.
Seeing people carrying clecks between message boards, Jonny said this and Bob said that, does anyone really expect us all to agree on anything, let alone agree on evrything.

Listen, if this message board attracts the numbers it does, then it's doing it for a reason and to a lot of people it's obviously what they want and are happy to use it, people criticising this board or others isn't going to change people's mind set, just get on with it, tolerate one another. If there is no demand for this board it will pass into oblivion,if other people want to set up another ten boards, then set them up, what's the problem with that. If you don't like the tone, or theme on these boards "THEN DON'T f*cking GO ON THEM" stick to the ones you like, and let other people get on with their lives.

Same goes for any supporters groups or clubs that want to set up, so what if there's twelve or twenty, we have an Official supporters club, which in my opinion is first class, we have a newly formed Trust which is in it's infancy and learning as it goes along, if you don't agree with eother groups running you either join them and make changes from within, or leave them run themselves, they don't claim to represent all Cardiff fans, that would be imposible,they only represent their members.

I feel strongly that we need a Trust, but personally I think they are taking the wrong direction and missed an opportunity by not supporting or even organising the march, just my opinion and If I was that bothered about the direction the trust was taking and wanted it to take a different one, then I'd get involved, but in truth I don't feel that strongly enough to want to do that, so until I do, I will just have eto accept what they do and leave them to it.

Now to have credibility they must have a certain level of members and this I feel is the crux of the matter.If either group are failing in their mission or direction then either the members pull it back in line or leave the group.

If other groups set up and take a different direction that appeals to more fans then possibly they will be given more credence, until such times let's all just live together and tolerate one another.

Top post Gwyn.

Personally, i think the trust is a waste of time and they clearly dont represent a large base of the fans, you can see that by their membership numbers etc compared against those of those numbers to attend games. There we probably more numbers on the recent march.

The trust has made many mistakes and the biggest one has to be not backing the march, that would have driven their numbers through the roof, they also go too close to certain individuals of the club which stoked a few esteemed egos ofthe trust board of self importance which has been seen through their recent statements. They achieved nothing really in their time apart from getting a grant towards a statue.

Talking to TG on Friday night he made it quite clear he loved the passion of the fans behind the march and it made a good impression to those back in KL. So the trust were clearly wide of the mark on the call of that one.

I personally also get fed up of reading the same individuals views in the press or watching them on TV..... so another group can only benefit to give the media a wider view of the fans voice and opinions too.

Tony.

Sludge said that having two organisations which overlapped or where eahc tried to outdo the other.Not that starting a new one was

And I still can see for the life of me why people, dont' join the trust and try bto change it.

After all you may set up this new organisation and then find that the working model for that isn't what you want.

What will you do then start another one??


Elwood

Elwood

I don't know if you remember but Corky posted an explanation why a Trust could never organise a march about 6 weeks ago. When I joined the Trust I was under the impression that it would be a lobbying group but had the ultimate sanction to show its teeth by organising protest marches, boycotts etc. But they can’t do that.

So simply changing the personnel on the Trust Board is pointless because the new officers would be bound by the same constraints.

Therefore I’m looking to something different because the Trust can never satisfy my full aspirations for a supporters group and our own suggested independent movement seems to be the best choice for me because ultimately it gives freedom to take direct action if need be.

Finally the new organisation wouldn’t just exist to organise marches and I hope it could get more involved in creating a better match day atmosphere. We desperately lack new songs and if part of its function is meeting up pre-match to try out new stuff then I can certainly see it taking off big time.

gwymn makes some good points but are you agreeing with his incorrect assertion about numbers dayo ?

because since 62 will fill you in on the facts about that if you wish

I think that gwyn made some very important points at a recent trust meeting , he felt the trust needed to do far more with regard to getting out into our supporter heartland

organise a meeting up in one of the valley towns, get numbers in etc

in fact at another meeting just a few days ago I brought up the idea of contacting chegs on here about having a trust event up at his pub ..its in merthyr and we have a lot of superb suport up tehre and in the nearby towns

but to be honest , given the fact a new supporters association is being mooted on here I dont know if thats ever going to happen

and I think thats a shame

Tony.

Sludge said that having two organisations which overlapped or where eahc tried to outdo the other.Not that starting a new one was

And I still can see for the life of me why people, dont' join the trust and try bto change it.

After all you may set up this new organisation and then find that the working model for that isn't what you want.

What will you do then start another one??


Elwood

Elwood

I don't know if you remember but Corky posted an explanation why a Trust could never organise a march about 6 weeks ago. When I joined the Trust I was under the impression that it would be a lobbying group but had the ultimate sanction to show its teeth by organising protest marches, boycotts etc. But they can’t do that.

So simply changing the personnel on the Trust Board is pointless because the new officers would be bound by the same constraints.

Therefore I’m looking to something different because the Trust can never satisfy my full aspirations for a supporters group and our own suggested independent movement seems to be the best choice for me because ultimately it gives freedom to take direct action if need be.

Finally the new organisation wouldn’t just exist to organise marches and I hope it could get more involved in creating a better match day atmosphere. We desperately lack new songs and if part of its function is meeting up pre-match to try out new stuff then I can certainly see it taking off big time.

if thats the way the new group goes, then thats something thats going to be a positive for all fans

the atmosphere at the new stadium is sometimes really lacking

[
Elwood

I don't know if you remember but Corky posted an explanation why a Trust could never organise a march about 6 weeks ago. When I joined the Trust I was under the impression that it would be a lobbying group but had the ultimate sanction to show its teeth by organising protest marches, boycotts etc. But they can’t do that.

So simply changing the personnel on the Trust Board is pointless because the new officers would be bound by the same constraints.

Therefore I’m looking to something different because the Trust can never satisfy my full aspirations for a supporters group and our own suggested independent movement seems to be the best choice for me because ultimately it gives freedom to take direct action if need be.

Finally the new organisation wouldn’t just exist to organise marches and I hope it could get more involved in creating a better match day atmosphere. We desperately lack new songs and if part of its function is meeting up pre-match to try out new stuff then I can certainly see it taking off big time.

if thats the way the new group goes, then thats something thats going to be a positive for all fans

the atmosphere at the new stadium is sometimes really lacking

Sludge our first song will be dedicated to you mate!

If that doesn't spark the atmosphere nothing will...

It cracks me up when people say there will be more divides if we have another supporters group, another messgae board etc.
What a load of TOSH, we will never sing from the same hymn sheet.

Cardiff fans as with other clubs come from all walks of life, some like getting drunk and going to games, others can't undertsand it and slag them off, some like standing and are treated like criminals,some think that unless you've been going for 20 years your not a real fan,and heaven help you if you have a second team you have a liking for, and if you only go now and then your a plastic, etc.etc.

It's all about tolerance, and some people are sadly lacking it, personally I like all the different walks of life attracted to football,I like what it means in so many different ways to all of us.Why do some people expect us all to want the same things, and all to do the same things.
If people want to march, then let them, if they want to wear Riverside scarves then let them, My God are they harming anyone, isn't life about choices, you make your choice and live with the outcome, leave people make their own minds up.
Seeing people carrying clecks between message boards, Jonny said this and Bob said that, does anyone really expect us all to agree on anything, let alone agree on evrything.

Listen, if this message board attracts the numbers it does, then it's doing it for a reason and to a lot of people it's obviously what they want and are happy to use it, people criticising this board or others isn't going to change people's mind set, just get on with it, tolerate one another. If there is no demand for this board it will pass into oblivion,if other people want to set up another ten boards, then set them up, what's the problem with that. If you don't like the tone, or theme on these boards "THEN DON'T f*cking GO ON THEM" stick to the ones you like, and let other people get on with their lives.

Same goes for any supporters groups or clubs that want to set up, so what if there's twelve or twenty, we have an Official supporters club, which in my opinion is first class, we have a newly formed Trust which is in it's infancy and learning as it goes along, if you don't agree with eother groups running you either join them and make changes from within, or leave them run themselves, they don't claim to represent all Cardiff fans, that would be imposible,they only represent their members.

I feel strongly that we need a Trust, but personally I think they are taking the wrong direction and missed an opportunity by not supporting or even organising the march, just my opinion and If I was that bothered about the direction the trust was taking and wanted it to take a different one, then I'd get involved, but in truth I don't feel that strongly enough to want to do that, so until I do, I will just have eto accept what they do and leave them to it.

Now to have credibility they must have a certain level of members and this I feel is the crux of the matter.If either group are failing in their mission or direction then either the members pull it back in line or leave the group.

If other groups set up and take a different direction that appeals to more fans then possibly they will be given more credence, until such times let's all just live together and tolerate one another.

Superb post Gwyn and Youve summoned it all up in one thread

the famous rallying cry of the rams was " keep the faith "

I think that was a call for unity , which I fully agreed with

at the time the supporters club , of which I was a member was fine for what I needed

but the rams did a superb job of mobilising our support who liked a pint before the game without getting hassle off the police ..and as it said in the book , we seemed to have the same end game , just different ways of doing things

however I feel that a new supporters group may well lead to not just different ideas but outright animosity between fans

it wont if we are all clear of our differences but to be honest I have seen very little leeway between both sides on this issue and if we have people like dayo chipping away at the trust at every opportunity and likewise in the other direction its all going to go tits up lads


thats my honest opinion

[
Elwood

I don't know if you remember but Corky posted an explanation why a Trust could never organise a march about 6 weeks ago. When I joined the Trust I was under the impression that it would be a lobbying group but had the ultimate sanction to show its teeth by organising protest marches, boycotts etc. But they can’t do that.

So simply changing the personnel on the Trust Board is pointless because the new officers would be bound by the same constraints.

Therefore I’m looking to something different because the Trust can never satisfy my full aspirations for a supporters group and our own suggested independent movement seems to be the best choice for me because ultimately it gives freedom to take direct action if need be.

Finally the new organisation wouldn’t just exist to organise marches and I hope it could get more involved in creating a better match day atmosphere. We desperately lack new songs and if part of its function is meeting up pre-match to try out new stuff then I can certainly see it taking off big time.

if thats the way the new group goes, then thats something thats going to be a positive for all fans

the atmosphere at the new stadium is sometimes really lacking

Sludge our first song will be dedicated to you mate!

If that doesn't spark the atmosphere nothing will...

black sabbath please

Gwynne what can one say a rousing post


well done

you should write a book

i have been on the fence about joining the trust i wont run them down or want to go into figures without delving into them , but from what i can see there is not a lot of support for the trust at the moment, how can the trust drum up more support, and is it possible to get the majority of supporters on side???

There was big failings like gwynne said about the trust(or persons)dragging their feet over the march, same as the scarves no one is taken the bull by the horns and and given it a good shake, the arguements will go on forever but as it stands the trust has lost a lot of support

I will go into the figures for you , gwyn is incorrect

we have 950 members in 700 different households

I will go into the figures for you , gwyn is incorrect

we have 950 members in 700 different households

Sludge, I dont want to slag the trust off, but does that include many many who have NOT RENEWED(including my 5 from My house) and Carl, Steve Davies, Gwyn etc etc etc who have Resigned as MEMBERS, PLEASE BE HONEST.

Rem this is not about the trust, they can continue their letters to the club and their statements.

Sludge,just to clear up, if you look at my post what I was saying but perhaps not clearly enough, was Annis had brought the point up about certain hoeseholds could have a total membership of several at least and whilst in one term they are members, in reality (apologies girlies and kids) the head of house may be the only person there interested in politics club business or trust matters. So in effect a membership of let's say 900 could in reality come from 300 households, but thanks for you clarification.

I commend your efforts for fighting the Trust's corner and over recent times and events you have been the voice of reason keeping things together, I genuinely would love to see a reall strong Trust, but the direction they are taking and their modus operatum is not the way i would choose to go.

I did bring up the membership forms and methods of joining at one recent meeting and to me the forms used sums up the whole set up, it seems a bit "WORDY" and the phrase why use three words when you can use three pages and totally complicate things, springs to mind.
The words I did use are highlighted below and you can see that I never stated there were 300 members, but just pointed out that it could be the case for house holds involved.

BigGwynram wrote:
I am a member of the Trust along with two others in my house, wife and son. I hoped the Trust would attract huge numbers, but as Annis keeps asking how many households have joint membership, it could be as few as 300 and if that is the case then it is disappointing and perhaps the Trust should ask themselves are they taking the right direction, do they need to change if they want to attract more members, or are they happy to carry on as they are.

cheers gwyn

as far as I know , the figure of 950 members is correct

I agree that the trust needs to branch out , that the wording is a bit hi brow

and also agreed with your suggestion the other night that a flat easy fee of a tenner and get togethers in pubs was a far better way of getting numbers in

we based the fees on other trusts but I certainly think it needs looking at

with regard to any new supporters group the same might apply ...3 or 4 from a house might join ...but only 1 is in reality an active member....my old man for example was a member of the supporters club for a while 30 years years ago and my uncle ...and me too and it was all under one house ...3 members ..even though it was only me who travelled

regards

I am a member of the Trust along with two others in my house, wife and son. I hoped the Trust would attract huge numbers, but as Annis keeps asking how many households have joint membership, it could be as few as 300 and if that is the case then it is disappointing and perhaps the Trust should ask themselves are they taking the right direction, do they need to change if they want to attract more members, or are they happy to carry on as they are.

Don't want to disparage what the Trust do, but I strongly believe they started off badly with the wrong targets and aims, but that's just my opinion, but a lot of people were put off by what they seen.There needs to be structure and order and democracy, but it appeaared so Pc and business like with Mission Statements and targetted audience, core structures, sub groups, steering commmittees eetc etc. A lot of us whilst recognising the needs for some of the above, most of us obviously haven't bee stimulated enough to join or take an active part.

Perhaps a new group may not want official recognition, they may not feel the need to be part of supporters direct or meet the Council etc.Perhaps they see themselves more as an action group who simply meet and discuss issues that are closer to their hearts than statues and and a fairer representation drives for more support from some minority groups etc.

Intrinsically, most of us are quite selfish by nature and are more concerned about things such as singing areas, bubble matches, restrictions, red tape for red tapes sake, jobs worth stewarding and petty rules,can't get back in at half time if you spend longer than ten minutes outside etc. Some of these items seem petty to others, but to many it's what concerns them.

let nature take it's course.

gwyn , need to pull you up a few points here


there are 950 members , not as few as 300 as you suggest


and 700 different households

and again , I am going to have to take issue with the suggestion , ,that the community group was concerned with getting more ethnic minority fans


we had an extensive survey that asked people of all backgrounds from around canton , riverside , grangetown abiout cardiff city , what , if anything it meant to them

we had lots of different people of many backgrounds at the community event and were widely praised for the work we did to foster better links with the local community around the stadium

When I heard about this it made my mind up not to join the trust. Surely for the last twelve months the sole
purpose of ANY supporters groups should have been to put pressure on Ridsdale and the board for transparency.
The numero uno question the trust should have been asking was "where's the money gone"... not spending good money on probably expensive surveys wandering round Grangetown asking Mr and Mrs Patel why their sons prefer cricket!!!

Sludge,just to clear up, if you look at my post what I was saying but perhaps not clearly enough, was Annis had brought the point up about certain hoeseholds could have a total membership of several at least and whilst in one term they are members, in reality (apologies girlies and kids) the head of house may be the only person there interested in politics club business or trust matters. So in effect a membership of let's say 900 could in reality come from 300 households, but thanks for you clarification.

I commend your efforts for fighting the Trust's corner and over recent times and events you have been the voice of reason keeping things together, I genuinely would love to see a reall strong Trust, but the direction they are taking and their modus operatum is not the way i would choose to go.

I did bring up the membership forms and methods of joining at one recent meeting and to me the forms used sums up the whole set up, it seems a bit "WORDY" and the phrase why use three words when you can use three pages and totally complicate things, springs to mind.
The words I did use are highlighted below and you can see that I never stated there were 300 members, but just pointed out that it could be the case for house holds involved.

BigGwynram wrote:
I am a member of the Trust along with two others in my house, wife and son. I hoped the Trust would attract huge numbers, but as Annis keeps asking how many households have joint membership, it could be as few as 300 and if that is the case then it is disappointing and perhaps the Trust should ask themselves are they taking the right direction, do they need to change if they want to attract more members, or are they happy to carry on as they are.

Hi Gwyn,

There are good reasons as to why the Trust do things in a certain way, the legal constitution which ironic to what many are saying is set up to be inclusive demands that. Its very similar to Trusts elsewhere.

In terms of size its smaller than Swansea's which was set up at a time of crisis and has a decent shareholding in their club, but larger than Bristol City's and considering the time its been going thats not bad.

It has done a lot of good, but I wont go into that here, its all on the Trust's own web-site, and for those who want to knock it, its well worth looking at that to find the Truth out.

I think stuff like encouraging the local kids from ethnic backgrounds to support the club personally is great - and I'd be interested to know what anyone has got against this. As I walked to the ground on Saturday I passed a family of Somalians. All in their ARSENAL kits. They appeared to be going into a house on the Estate by the cross-roads so a stones throw from CCS, so why arent they watching their local side.

If another group can improve life for the fans then great, and good luck to you, I wouldn't want to go through all the hassle that was involved in setting the Supporter's Trust up again, but we have to make sure we don't work AGAINST each other, or allow ourselves to be manipulated by people like PR.

SOmehting else that worries me here, is that people are saying the Trust was AGAINST the march. This simply isnt true, it didnt bakc it and ONE prominant member criticised it, stupidly IMHO- and apologised afterwards. Many, Many, of us actually joined in the march, including members of the Trust Board. So lets please keep this in context.

One more thing.
Annis seems to think you have resigned from the Trust. Is this true ? You could be an excellent rep on the board, but I expect after 5 years of running the RAS you've had a gutsful of stuff like that

I am a member of the Trust along with two others in my house, wife and son. I hoped the Trust would attract huge numbers, but as Annis keeps asking how many households have joint membership, it could be as few as 300 and if that is the case then it is disappointing and perhaps the Trust should ask themselves are they taking the right direction, do they need to change if they want to attract more members, or are they happy to carry on as they are.

Don't want to disparage what the Trust do, but I strongly believe they started off badly with the wrong targets and aims, but that's just my opinion, but a lot of people were put off by what they seen.There needs to be structure and order and democracy, but it appeaared so Pc and business like with Mission Statements and targetted audience, core structures, sub groups, steering commmittees eetc etc. A lot of us whilst recognising the needs for some of the above, most of us obviously haven't bee stimulated enough to join or take an active part.

Perhaps a new group may not want official recognition, they may not feel the need to be part of supporters direct or meet the Council etc.Perhaps they see themselves more as an action group who simply meet and discuss issues that are closer to their hearts than statues and and a fairer representation drives for more support from some minority groups etc.

Intrinsically, most of us are quite selfish by nature and are more concerned about things such as singing areas, bubble matches, restrictions, red tape for red tapes sake, jobs worth stewarding and petty rules,can't get back in at half time if you spend longer than ten minutes outside etc. Some of these items seem petty to others, but to many it's what concerns them.

let nature take it's course.

gwyn , need to pull you up a few points here


there are 950 members , not as few as 300 as you suggest


and 700 different households

and again , I am going to have to take issue with the suggestion , ,that the community group was concerned with getting more ethnic minority fans


we had an extensive survey that asked people of all backgrounds from around canton , riverside , grangetown abiout cardiff city , what , if anything it meant to them

we had lots of different people of many backgrounds at the community event and were widely praised for the work we did to foster better links with the local community around the stadium

When I heard about this it made my mind up not to join the trust. Surely for the last twelve months the sole
purpose of ANY supporters groups should have been to put pressure on Ridsdale and the board for transparency.
The numero uno question the trust should have been asking was "where's the money gone"... not spending good money on probably expensive surveys wandering round Grangetown asking Mr and Mrs Patel why their sons prefer cricket!!!

Expensive surveys ?

Voluntary work, done by volunteers.

By the way 'Mr Patel' did his best to put a spike in the building of our new stadium. If he'd been brought onside a few years before it may well have saved our club a LOT of money .