UPDATED ' COURT CASE WITH VINCENT TAN NOW NEXT '

So it looks like tan may be holding the ace cards,Sam wins ,he refuses
to pay and administration possibly

Cardiff City fear administration if club loses impending court case over £5.7m debt

Do you honestly believe the Echo? they were saying it was £6.75mill, they read the forum and changed it to £5.75mill

They said Tan had removed a Director Michael Filiou, guess what he's still there

They did not even know there was a court case till they read this forum

Annis the truth is that Dalman is close to the Echo and put the the 'threat of administration' out in the media to put fear into fans and try and get a backlash against Sam Hammam.

It us so clear to see through I am embarrassed the club are naive enough to think that we are as fans are that gullible.

Correct Carl and just shows they know they will lose yet another case that Tan has done.

Tan is the one that stands to lose the money.

From the outside it looks like the judge has come down slightly on the clubs side.

They have refused Sam's request for a Summary Judgement and given the club another week.

As for the Echo piece. If Dalman is talking then he is within his right to assume that the club could be thrown into administration.

He is not putting out a threat that THE CLUB will put itself into administration should they lose the case, he is saying that if they lose and cannot pay Langston then LANGSTON could request the club is put into administration.

Tan gains nothing from putting the club into adminsitration.

From the outside it looks like the judge has come down slightly on the clubs side.

They have refused Sam's request for a Summary Judgement and given the club another week.

As for the Echo piece. If Dalman is talking then he is within his right to assume that the club could be thrown into administration.

He is not putting out a threat that THE CLUB will put itself into administration should they lose the case, he is saying that if they lose and cannot pay Langston then LANGSTON could request the club is put into administration.

Tan gains nothing from putting the club into adminsitration.

Wayne, the club asked for three to four months to continue to prepare but the judge gave them a week.

I don't think he is siding with Tan at all.

From the outside it looks like the judge has come down slightly on the clubs side.

They have refused Sam's request for a Summary Judgement and given the club another week.

As for the Echo piece. If Dalman is talking then he is within his right to assume that the club could be thrown into administration.

He is not putting out a threat that THE CLUB will put itself into administration should they lose the case, he is saying that if they lose and cannot pay Langston then LANGSTON could request the club is put into administration.

Tan gains nothing from putting the club into adminsitration.

Wayne, the club asked for three to four months to continue to prepare but the judge gave them a week.

I don't think he is siding with the Tan at all.

Which is why I said, slightly. The judge never gave Langston their Summary Judgement

From the outside it looks like the judge has come down slightly on the clubs side.

They have refused Sam's request for a Summary Judgement and given the club another week.

As for the Echo piece. If Dalman is talking then he is within his right to assume that the club could be thrown into administration.

He is not putting out a threat that THE CLUB will put itself into administration should they lose the case, he is saying that if they lose and cannot pay Langston then LANGSTON could request the club is put into administration.

Tan gains nothing from putting the club into adminsitration.

It is not unusual for the Judge to grant further time in such circumstances and as Carl said he gave only an extra week which is hardly siding with the club.

From the outside it looks like the judge has come down slightly on the clubs side.

They have refused Sam's request for a Summary Judgement and given the club another week.

As for the Echo piece. If Dalman is talking then he is within his right to assume that the club could be thrown into administration.

He is not putting out a threat that THE CLUB will put itself into administration should they lose the case, he is saying that if they lose and cannot pay Langston then LANGSTON could request the club is put into administration.

Tan gains nothing from putting the club into adminsitration.

Wayne, the club asked for three to four months to continue to prepare but the judge gave them a week.

I don't think he is siding with the Tan at all.

Which is why I said, slightly. The judge never gave Langston their Summary Judgement

The Judge has to be seen as fair therefore granting an extra week has more to do with that than coming down on one side or the other.

Can someone please explain what is different now from 6 years ago ( or whenever it was), when the court wouldn't give Sunmary Judgement to Langston without knowing who they are ?

Looks to me like Tan had a deal with Sam, but then something pissed him off regarding Sam, so knowing that Sam for whatever reason will not ( or cannot because there is something dodgy behind it) disclose who Langston are decided to make life difficult for him.

It's better than Corrie

From the outside it looks like the judge has come down slightly on the clubs side.

They have refused Sam's request for a Summary Judgement and given the club another week.

As for the Echo piece. If Dalman is talking then he is within his right to assume that the club could be thrown into administration.

He is not putting out a threat that THE CLUB will put itself into administration should they lose the case, he is saying that if they lose and cannot pay Langston then LANGSTON could request the club is put into administration.

Tan gains nothing from putting the club into adminsitration.

Wayne, the club asked for three to four months to continue to prepare but the judge gave them a week.

I don't think he is siding with the Tan at all.

Which is why I said, slightly. The judge never gave Langston their Summary Judgement

The Judge has to be seen as fair therefore granting an extra week has more to do with that than coming down on one side or the other.

Correct Tony, Ive been involved in many civil court cases in my life,thankfully never against myself and this is exactly how Judges work, so that nobody can not deny they were never given enough chances etc to show their evidence

Can someone please explain what is different now from 6 years ago ( or whenever it was), when the court wouldn't give Sunmary Judgement to Langston without knowing who they are ?

Looks to me like Tan had a deal with Sam, but then something pissed him off regarding Sam, so knowing that Sam for whatever reason will not ( or cannot because there is something dodgy behind it) disclose who Langston are decided to make life difficult for him.

It's better than Corrie

Tim, I like Corrie

Can someone please explain what is different now from 6 years ago ( or whenever it was), when the court wouldn't give Sunmary Judgement to Langston without knowing who they are ?

Looks to me like Tan had a deal with Sam, but then something pissed him off regarding Sam, so knowing that Sam for whatever reason will not ( or cannot because there is something dodgy behind it) disclose who Langston are decided to make life difficult for him.

It's better than Corrie

Tim, I like Corrie

Good answer

Me too.
Monday night we've got Benidorm too.

Almost the only things I watch on Tv apart from the news and sports.
They both make me laugh.

Can someone please explain what is different now from 6 years ago ( or whenever it was), when the court wouldn't give Sunmary Judgement to Langston without knowing who they are ?

Looks to me like Tan had a deal with Sam, but then something pissed him off regarding Sam, so knowing that Sam for whatever reason will not ( or cannot because there is something dodgy behind it) disclose who Langston are decided to make life difficult for him.

It's better than Corrie

Tim, I like Corrie

Is Emily dead in Peru or wherever she went

Can someone please explain what is different now from 6 years ago ( or whenever it was), when the court wouldn't give Sunmary Judgement to Langston without knowing who they are ?

Looks to me like Tan had a deal with Sam, but then something pissed him off regarding Sam, so knowing that Sam for whatever reason will not ( or cannot because there is something dodgy behind it) disclose who Langston are decided to make life difficult for him.

It's better than Corrie

Tim, I like Corrie

Good answer

Me too.
Monday night we've got Benidorm too.

Almost the only things I watch on Tv apart from the news and sports.
They both make me laugh.

I like Benidorm as well

I will get a Santa Ponsa one filmed

So it looks like tan may be holding the ace cards,Sam wins ,he refuses
to pay and administration possibly?
Cardiff City fear administration if club loses impending court case over £5.7m debt

Do you honestly believe the Echo? they were saying it was £6.75mill, they read the forum and changed it to £5.75mill

They said Tan had removed a Director Michael Filiou, guess what he's still there

They did not even know there was a court case till they read this forum

Annis the truth is that Dalman is close to the Echo and put the the 'threat of administration' out in the media to put fear into fans and try and get a backlash against Sam Hammam.

It us so clear to see through I am embarrassed the club are naive enough to think that we are as fans are that gullible.

Carlos,
The same scare story we were being given by Ridsdale and co almost a decade ago - can't believe all this crap has resurfaced after the club has paid about three quarters of the debt.

It all seems to be about ego. If Tan pays in full then Hammam wins.

if he owed Sam £6m and it cost him £12m to pay someone to remove the debt... then I honestly think he would!!

I will state now, Tan will lose this court case and wasted £millions bringing it to court etc

Tan wasted £millions on the Rebrand,Players/ 6 CEO'S/Managers/Stadium over rebrand etc etc

All Facts.

But he's written off over 20 million already of HIS money also converted 6 million from debt to equity and let be honest it's his money he's lossing ,he could turn around at any moment and write the rest off as other football club owners have done

Wez, He did it all for show and to put his name out there, he's run Cardiff City absolutely diabolical and you have to be honest and admit that.
Money wasted is beyond.

But worse of all he's hurt our fan base, which could hurt us for many many years to come.

He is the only owner who has put his money where his mouth is wrongly or rightly ,you can't deny that he has been the most successful owner we've had on the pitch for 50 years

Has he really though Wez? Hes put the money in but wants it all back so we are in limbo cos hes never going to get anyone to pay him for all his expensive mistakes.

How do you know he wants it back ? He wrote off 13 million recently

What was that? Interest charged at a ridiculous 7% percent?

I will state now, Tan will lose this court case and wasted £millions bringing it to court etc

Tan wasted £millions on the Rebrand,Players/ 6 CEO'S/Managers/Stadium over rebrand etc etc

All Facts.

But he's written off over 20 million already of HIS money also converted 6 million from debt to equity and let be honest it's his money he's lossing ,he could turn around at any moment and write the rest off as other football club owners have done

Wez, He did it all for show and to put his name out there, he's run Cardiff City absolutely diabolical and you have to be honest and admit that.
Money wasted is beyond.

But worse of all he's hurt our fan base, which could hurt us for many many years to come.

He is the only owner who has put his money where his mouth is wrongly or rightly ,you can't deny that he has been the most successful owner we've had on the pitch for 50 years

Has he really though Wez? Hes put the money in but wants it all back so we are in limbo cos hes never going to get anyone to pay him for all his expensive mistakes.

How do you know he wants it back ? He wrote off 13 million recently

What was that? Interest charged at a ridiculous 7% percent?

Most of any interest charged had already been written off in previous years .

The majority of this is a genuine reduction of the debt.

I will state now, Tan will lose this court case and wasted £millions bringing it to court etc

Tan wasted £millions on the Rebrand,Players/ 6 CEO'S/Managers/Stadium over rebrand etc etc

All Facts.

But he's written off over 20 million already of HIS money also converted 6 million from debt to equity and let be honest it's his money he's lossing ,he could turn around at any moment and write the rest off as other football club owners have done

Wez, He did it all for show and to put his name out there, he's run Cardiff City absolutely diabolical and you have to be honest and admit that.
Money wasted is beyond.

But worse of all he's hurt our fan base, which could hurt us for many many years to come.

He is the only owner who has put his money where his mouth is wrongly or rightly ,you can't deny that he has been the most successful owner we've had on the pitch for 50 years

Has he really though Wez? Hes put the money in but wants it all back so we are in limbo cos hes never going to get anyone to pay him for all his expensive mistakes.

How do you know he wants it back ? He wrote off 13 million recently

What was that? Interest charged at a ridiculous 7% percent?

Most of any interest charged had already been written off in previous years .

The majority of this is a genuine reduction of the debt.

It's not even 10 percent and I imagine only done to try and avoid FFP sanctions.

He's gonna have to wipe about 85 percent to have any chance of selling the club.

Cardiff City could enter administration if they lose their impending High Court case.

The Bluebirds are set to face off with main creditor Langston over £5.7m still owed by the club, on £24m in loan notes taken by then-owner Sam Hammam in 2004.

Hammam remains the representative for Langston and new owner Vincent Tan inherited the long-standing debt when he took over at the club, reports WalesOnline.

Four years ago, the two parties reached agreement on a £22m settlement, to be paid in the form of £15m up-front, followed by £7m in £250,000 quarterly instalments over seven years.

Cardiff had been honouring that, but last year suspended payments.

Tan and the club’s hierarchy, including chairman Mehmet Dalman, have always been concerned that, in their opinion, they do not know who is behind Langston.
When payments stopped Hammam and Langston filed a case in the High Court to attempt to retrieve the outstanding sum which could total as much as £6.7m now with interest and when legal costs are taken into consideration.

Sources at the club have told us that if Langston are successful and demand immediate payment up-front, which could happen, the ramifications might be severe for the Welsh club.

The Bluebirds, who are currently under a transfer embargo for breaching the Football League’s Financial Fair Play regulations, could find themselves unable to settle the amount, with the prospect then of the club being plunged into administration or even liquidation.

If the path of administration is followed, the first penalty would be to see the League dock Russell Slade’s Bluebirds 12 points this season, writing off any hopes of Premier League promotion and, in fact, putting them in danger of relegation to League One.

Cardiff have not yet been informed of the actual date of the hearing with Langston believed to have asked for a summary judgement to be made to expedite matters, but the case could now be heard as early as next week.

From the 2014 accounts, 'the total interest due to May 2014 was waived in September 2013'

Can someone please explain what is different now from 6 years ago ( or whenever it was), when the court wouldn't give Sunmary Judgement to Langston without knowing who they are ?

Looks to me like Tan had a deal with Sam, but then something pissed him off regarding Sam, so knowing that Sam for whatever reason will not ( or cannot because there is something dodgy behind it) disclose who Langston are decided to make life difficult for him.

It's better than Corrie

Summary Judgements are granted when there is no real prospect of respondent (in this case Tan/CCFC) mounting a defence with any prospect of success. Usually the test is whether the defence is frivolous or simply doesn’t exist.

In 2008 the Judge said that if the case went to full trial then there was a prospect of Sam Hammam being outed as Langston.

However, that wasn’t the reason why the Summary Judgement was not granted as the club had a defence against the claim that they had breached the agreement made up in 2006/7.

Of course none of this was ever tested because the Judge also stated that both sides should sit down and come to an agreement by 1st January 2010. From what I remember the club repaid Langston £1m around that time before that agreement was also broken.

Vincent Tan then made a new agreement to repay the Langston debt in 2013 and that is the one in dispute now. The club are in breach of contract (the payments have stopped) and must now mount a defence to show why they have done this

It is my belief that this time they will struggle with the outing of Sam as Langston unless there was some clause in the agreement saying that Sam had to give information to the club. As the club have failed to lodge a defence so far then a Summary Judgement will be granted if they don’t. If their defence is simply Sam is Langston then that would seem very frivolous and again a Summary Judgement could be granted.

Tan has now put in around £20m in shares and £13m of 'gifts' via loans he made and then wrote off.

Fact is, he's the only person to have invested real money into City.

Apart from a few million here and there with others everything else out in by everyone else was loans.

From what Keith has said it sounds like he's written more off now.

Sounds to me, as suspected that he's using the loans as a vehicle for trying to balance the books through annual debt to equity write offs.

To me he should be thanked for this, it's encouraging news.
Hell of a lot more to do yet mind.

I'm hoping the case gets sorted and he can do debt to equity on a load of it.

However, we've been there before with the summary judgement.
My guess is Sam will fail to tell the judge who Langston are and the Summary Judgement will be thrown out and things will drag out for years as we move toward s full court case.

Does this remind anyone of something from the past ?

It'd be nice if Sam would just write this final payment off.
His bit for the club that he professes to love.

I agree with you on your assessment of Tan and I to believe he is employing a tactic of writing off debt gradually and that seems like a sensible way of doing things as it improves our year on year financial performance.

My honest held belief is that Tan has been badly advised on all sorts of matters since he came here. That includes the rebrand, transfer policy, managerial appointments and of course this latest farce the Langston debt.

This is just my opinion and I don't have evidence but I believe he was told that Sam would never go to court as he was frightened of being outed as Langston for whatever reason. On the back of that Tan wasted £1m on forensic accountants who found the square root of f**k all.

I would just hope that everyone sees sense and stops this madness before it goes any further. I would also hope that Tan seeks out more professional advice than he has so far.

The clubs barrister would have advised the club if they have no case.
He would be advising them to settle out of court.sell marshal and noone debt paid.

The clubs barrister would have advised the club if they have no case.
He would be advising them to settle out of court.sell marshal and noone debt paid.

Do you honestly believe Tan listens to advice?

They know they've lost this case,but Tan wants to have the last word by making out that Sam is threatening to to put our club in admin etc.

The clubs barrister would have advised the club if they have no case.
He would be advising them to settle out of court.sell marshal and noone debt paid.

Do you honestly believe Tan listens to advice?

They know they've lost this case,but Tan wants to have the last word by making out that Sam is threatening to to put our club in admin etc.

he just wants it in black and white that Sam is Langston for some reason, if the club had no case then the judgement would of been granted yesterday

The clubs barrister would have advised the club if they have no case.
He would be advising them to settle out of court.sell marshal and noone debt paid.

Do you honestly believe Tan listens to advice?

They know they've lost this case,but Tan wants to have the last word by making out that Sam is threatening to to put our club in admin etc.

he just wants it in black and white that Sam is Langston for some reason, if the club had no case then the judgement would of been granted yesterday

Wez, Ive always said from the beginning Sam put Langston together, which in my opinion was a group of Lebanese business men incl Sams brother.

The clubs barrister would have advised the club if they have no case.
He would be advising them to settle out of court.sell marshal and noone debt paid.

Do you honestly believe Tan listens to advice?
They know they've lost this case,but Tan wants to have the last word by making out that Sam is threatening to to put our club in admin etc.

Given a choice between the two I'll side with Tan every time, in spite of our on-going problems. At least he has no record of trying to turn a League football club into a shop and car park. Ask any Wimbledon fan what a great, noble, truthful and homest bloke he is.

sam got 24 million for winbledon
hrw lent himsel the money
or borrowed on it

The clubs barrister would have advised the club if they have no case.
He would be advising them to settle out of court.sell marshal and noone debt paid.

Do you honestly believe Tan listens to advice?
They know they've lost this case,but Tan wants to have the last word by making out that Sam is threatening to to put our club in admin etc.

Given a choice between the two I'll side with Tan every time, in spite of our on-going problems. At least he has no record of trying to turn a League football club into a shop and car park. Ask any Wimbledon fan what a great, noble, truthful and homest bloke he is.

Well I would take Sam or any Chairman over Tan and thats my feelings on it, everyones entitled their beliefs/opinions

The clubs barrister would have advised the club if they have no case.
He would be advising them to settle out of court.sell marshal and noone debt paid.

Do you honestly believe Tan listens to advice?
They know they've lost this case,but Tan wants to have the last word by making out that Sam is threatening to to put our club in admin etc.

Given a choice between the two I'll side with Tan every time, in spite of our on-going problems. At least he has no record of trying to turn a League football club into a shop and car park. Ask any Wimbledon fan what a great, noble, truthful and homest bloke he is.

Well I would take Sam or any Chairman over Tan and thats my feelings on it, everyones entitled their beliefs/opinions

Sam was just a front man to turning Wimbledon into a car park.

how much interest did langstone charge
or do you think they put £24million in and only want £24 million back
just for the love of Cardiff city

Langston initially charged interest but it was written off as part of the deal giving the club to Ridsdale/PMG in 2006/7.

So to answer your question yes they (Langston) put £24m in and only want £24m back as per the 2013 agreement.

,

Where's your proof Langston has loaned us £24 million

Steve, Daft question, it was proved years ago Langston lent £24mill to City(in the accounts) .

Sorry my fault I didn't realise they lent us £24 million on an interest free loan
I'm so daft I thought the original loan was less than £24 million ,but was now £24 million due to the interest they charged
Silly me